3 hours ago, sirineou said:

How about the environmental impact of 400 miles of a wall?

 

Evidently, the negative impact on the environment would be disastrous. Lucky for Trump's supporters their President doesn't give a toss about the environment.

 

 

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/10/14471304/trump-border-wall-animals

19 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

No, the story hasn't ended there, as the Pres is now blaming Democrats for the death of two migrant kids on the border. You really can't make this sh!t up! 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/29/politics/donald-trump-border-deaths-democrats/index.html

No surprises there. Narcissists believe they are perfect and everything bad is anyone else’s fault.

19 minutes ago, Opl said:

Only seems odd if you’ve swallowed the Trump lie that the Democrats do not support border security.

 

The bill Trump refused to sign provided significant funding for border security and had bi-partisan support.

 

The government shutdown is Trump’s choice.

 

The refusal to accept funding for border security was Trump’s choice.

32 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Only seems odd if you’ve swallowed the Trump lie that the Democrats do not support border security.

 

The bill Trump refused to sign provided significant funding for border security and had bi-partisan support.

 

The government shutdown is Trump’s choice.

 

The refusal to accept funding for border security was Trump’s choice.

That's incorrect.

It passed in the house, because the Republicans still have a majority, but, it wouldn't have got through the Senate because it needed 60 votes. Some Democrats needed to endorse it. None did.

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

excellent answertoo bad trampers will not get it.

 

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

What would a concrete wall  along the southern border symbolise? 

It would be a permanent monument to trump... more recognizable than trump towers.... visible from space, even.

 

trump has a narrcistic bent, franchising his name, plastering on what ever he can. Trump tower, trump university, trump steak, trump this, trump that.

 

i say this in consideration of the fact that one of the most famous walls, is Hadrians wall... which bears the emporer Hadrians name.

 

other examples of man made barriers from the motherland include the Antonine wall and Offas dike, although..... if trump gets his way, the “Wailing Wall” might be appropriate. ????

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

That's incorrect.

It passed in the house, because the Republicans still have a majority, but, it wouldn't have got through the Senate because it needed 60 votes. Some Democrats needed to endorse it. None did.

That’s interesting..... but perhaps not that correct... unless this piece is completely wrong in saying that the senate unanimously passed the continuation bill

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdowns_of_2018

 

 

Maybe I'm talking about a different bill. The one I'm referring to is the one that had over 5 billion for the wall. 

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

That's incorrect.

It passed in the house, because the Republicans still have a majority, but, it wouldn't have got through the Senate because it needed 60 votes. Some Democrats needed to endorse it. None did.

Why do you need votes from Democrats for something Mexico is paying for?

28 minutes ago, BestB said:

Did you read it? 2 options suggested . I being solid concrete, second materials not specified ????

And at least 18 feet high, preferably 30. and 6 feet underground, too.

9 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Come on. You're not serious are you? Carry a 30ft ladder through rugged terrain or carry in the parts and assemble next to the wall? That's a significant physical operation with high chance of being detected. And then, of course, is the issue of getting down the other side ...

 

Look, ain't nobody saying a wall is foolproof. But it is a major deterrent and, more importantly, a force multiplier for the security system, manned and automated, already in place.

Rope ladder anyone?

 

17 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Arrivals by plane have their passports/entry recorded are (theoretically) trackable. Those that swim the Rio Grande are not. The latter need to be kept out. Period.

Look at it from the potential illegal's point of view.

 

1 ) Apply for passport then apply for US visa then get on a plane, dodge the bullet at US immigration, enter the country and simply disappear.

 

or

 

2 ) Walk a few thousand miles, cadge a ride if and when you can, wait until it's dark, wander across a desert or climb a fence or swim a river, dodge the bullet of US border control (literally), enter the country and simply disappear.

 

The first, overwhelmingly popular route is taken by those of means or otherwise funded by very rich people who do not wish the US citizenry to be safe and happy. If you want to get all theoretical on us, think Saudi's attending pilot training school. The second, arduous but far less busy route is taken by those who are passportless, poor, desperate and probably just want to have a new roof on the shed back home. Most of them are not at all interested in selling you drugs, jacking your ride or raping your daughters.

Edited December 30, 20187 yr by NanLaew

4 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Maybe I'm talking about a different bill. The one I'm referring to is the one that had over 5 billion for the wall. 

It's the same Bill. It's only AFTER the right-wing media kicked the immigration hornets nest did DJT's right-wing voter base start making a noise about it (or did they?). DJT needs those voters for a second term so was forced to renege and insisted that 5 million for the wall be tacked on before he would sign it. Only then did the wheels come off the previously bipartisan and mutually acceptable Bill.

 

DJT's simplistic, ill-advised, vote-getting, pre-election promise chooks are coming home to roost.

Edited December 30, 20187 yr by NanLaew

4 hours ago, farcanell said:

other examples of man made barriers from the motherland include the Antonine wall and Offas dike, although..... if trump gets his way, the “Wailing Wall” might be appropriate.

He would probably try to make Offa Dike an offer, to stay quiet during his re-election campaign...

4 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Maybe I'm talking about a different bill. The one I'm referring to is the one that had over 5 billion for the wall. 

Maybe you are talking about a different bill, as it was clearly not the one under discussion.... but it’s hard for us to know, unless you provide specific information vs an arbitrary though laid down, erroneously attacking Democrats, with out linking it to any source.

 

 

Edited December 30, 20187 yr by farcanell

Denald is at it again with his early morning tweets:

 

DonaId J. Trump (@realDenaldTrump)

12/30/18, 7:18 AM The Fake News Media is going crazy because I said I don’t care that government workers don’t get there ”Shutdown” paychecks because most of them are Democrats. They ask me how do I KNOW they’re Democrats. Believe me, if these workers weren’t Democrats before - they are now! SAD!

2 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Denald is at it again with his early morning tweets:

 

DonaId J. Trump (@realDenaldTrump)

12/30/18, 7:18 AM The Fake News Media is going crazy because I said I don’t care that government workers don’t get there ”Shutdown” paychecks because most of them are Democrats. They ask me how do I KNOW they’re Democrats. Believe me, if these workers weren’t Democrats before - they are now! SAD!

 It is incredible to me that so many people support this man.

Honestly, no exaggeration, I watch all these with disbelief.

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 It is incredible to me that so many people support this man.

Honestly, no exaggeration, I watch all these with disbelief.

Nobody is supporting Denald Trump. It's a wind up.

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 7:18 AM, Zombies said:

 

Visa overstayers are not the same as illegal aliens that cross the southern border unvetted, and the other side of the argument is the drugs, crime, human trafficking, child abuse, that comes almost exclusively through our porous southern border. 

So how is he going to close the border without his wall then?

A post containing an offensive comment has been removed as well as a reply. 

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

So how is he going to close the border without his wall then?

Even Fox News and Kellyanne Conway are now admitting that nobody calls it "a wall" except Trump, for the psychological impact to his base. John Kelly said they dumped the old fashioned "wall" concept long ago, and directly contradicted Trump. Part of the reason he is gone is because he was trying to get Trump to represent this project in more reasonable, tempered language, but as usual, Trump inflames and incites with his language and refuses to restrain himself. 

 

Everybody in both parties wants border security and an intelligent discussion and plan about how to do this. Simplistic, inflammatory language meant to inflame passions in an unsophisticated and largely uneducated base does not help.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/outgoing-chief-of-staff-john-kelly-to-be-honest-its-not-a-wall

https://www.salon.com/2018/12/30/kellyanne-conway-government-shutdown-is-over-a-silly-semantic-argument/

It's not a " wall" Trump is checking.. it's a strainer prototype

 

"Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal: President Donald Trump immoral, doesn't tell the truth."

 

""What I would ask every American to do is ... stand in front of that mirror and say, 'What are we about? Am I really willing to throw away or ignore some of the things that people do that are -- are pretty unacceptable normally just because they accomplish certain other things that we might like?"

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/retired-army-gen-stanley-mcchrystal-president-donald-trump/story?id=60065642

Trump claims there’s a 10-foot wall around the Obamas’ D.C. home. He is wrong.

"Trump’s assertion came as a surprise to two of the Obamas' neighbors Monday, who told The Washington Post that there is no such wall. The 8,200-square-foot structure, despite several security features, is completely visible from the street."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/31/trump-claims-theres-foot-wall-around-obamas-dc-home-neighbors-say-theres-not/?utm_term=.231d31de2451

 

Those neighbors just don't get it. It's an invisible wall. How about if Congress and Trump agree to create a similar invisible structure for the southern border. It could be called "The Emperor's New Wall" 

Whatever and however the form of a physical barrier might be that will satisfy Trump in a budget bill that he would approve, there's a certainty that Democrats will not agree : no budget without Trump concessions to the Democrat agenda.

Thus far, all of Trump's so-called negotiations focus on physical border security. Trump's negotiations have been all about what the Democrats must concede to get a budget bill signed by Trump. He refuses to include in the negotiations any concessions. It's a one-way transactional negotiation, a winner take all. There must be a winner (Trump) and loser (Democrats).

Trump rejects the idea that while he must protect his political base, the Democrats do not - yet not yet grasping reality that the Democrat base has now given them majority in the House and that base wants concessions from Trump such as immigration reform. 

 

 

Trump's wall is not about border security: it's about division and polarization. These things he does well and depends on for political survival. After his election, people thought he would play the traditional role that most President's do, which is bring factions together. He doubled down on his caustic division and pandering to the 35% to keep this base intact that got him elected. 

 

Not a political endorsement, but Beta O'Rourke put together a concise 1 minute video on twitter yesterday that sums it up:

 

https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/1079884786653634561

Yes, why the stubborn obsession with the metaphor wall?

It isn't pretty.

 

Quote

 

The walls around Trump are crumbling. Evangelicals may be his last resort.

Why does President Trump continue to keep the government shut down over his demand for a border wall, when large majorities oppose it? The most obvious answer is that he senses his long-term political survival depends on keeping his wall-adoring base behind him as his legal travails mount.

What is more interesting, though, is that the core of that base support may grow increasingly dependent on the white evangelical Christians who continue fervently supporting Trump no matter what he says and does.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/02/walls-around-trump-are-crumbling-evangelicals-may-be-his-last-resort/