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SURVEY: Health Insurance -- Are requirements fair?


Scott

SURVEY: Health Insurance -- Are requirements fair?  

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I'm 70, on a retirement visa here, I have hypertension and type 2 diabetes. I have money in the bank enough to cover any medical bills. I am not paying hundreds of thousands of Baht every year to some insurance company for nothing. This becomes law I leave. 

Most of the cases you hear about are younger people here doing daft things which is not covered by insurance anyway!

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I haven't gone through the entire thread -- too much to read. But has any mention been made of those foreigners who are lucky enough to pay into the Thai social security system (which means free medical)? 

 

I am one such, and I am overseas at the moment. You might think that my question is redundant -- have SS card, ergo medically covered -- but we all know the Thai penchant for making up rules on the spur of the moment if nothing is written down in stone. What I am worried about is returning to Thailand and encountering an officious immigration official who will see that I have no paperwork (or whatever) from a medical insurer and deny me entry because he has no instructions on how to deal with foreigners with social security cards.

 

Is that clear enough? Or would BMs like me to explain it further? 

 

PS: A related issue here is that the Social Security Office (SSO) is often very slow to update SS cards, meaning a bit of a juggling act might be needed to ensure my card is relevant when I go overseas (I return home for several months every year).

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1 minute ago, Dexlowe said:

But has any mention been made of those foreigners who are lucky enough to pay into the Thai social security system

Not seen anything, I'm in that group too (although I'm still working and have separate medical anyway).

 

At present nothing has passed into law so nobody (probably not even the goverment) know exactly what will transpire.

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10 hours ago, sirineou said:

I could not agree with you more.

Wfe would love nothing more than to sell out FL home, we would get a hefty amount of money for it (close to the beach) and be sitting pretty, 

  but as you said , and I also often say, burning bridges is at the very least irresponsible (to be kind).

  I cringe  when i hear, " i cleaned up my bank account sold my house and is moving to  Thailand".

What are you going to do if it becomes too expensive to live here? Immigration becomes too difficult, old age issues arise?

   Perhaps I will sell the house in FL, to solve the liquidity problem the wife will have after I pass, but the funds are going in  a safe (inflation hedge) investment vehicle, where it will stay until I kick the bucket, after that  wife can do whatever she wants.  

 

Same here! I researched Thailand before i moved here, and came to the conclusion it was not a friendly retirement destination. Fun at the time though.

Now, I thank my lucky stars I never sold my home, and never bought a woman in Thailand a home. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard, sell everything and buy a home here we can be so happy. 

Thailand it the king of con's. Anyone living here for a few years knows it whether they admit it or not.

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21 hours ago, garyk said:

...expats should not consider Thailand a secure retirement destination.  It never has been and never will be.

speak for yourself. we are presently looking back at 14 years -not only secure but extremely rewarding- retirement in Thailand and smile when we hear the proverbial floggings of dead horses such as 

-them xenophobes don't want us,

-they only want our dollars,

-they keep changing the goal posts,

-Viet Nam... Cambodia... Philippines... Belize... Ecuador... here we come,

-p*ssed off with double pricing,

-living in my home country is now cheaper than living in Thailand,

-a bottle of beer is cheaper in (insert country),

-bla-bla-bla-yakety-bla-bla-bla-yak-bla-bla.

:guitar:

 

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1 hour ago, Crossy said:

At present nothing has passed into law so nobody (probably not even the goverment) know exactly what will transpire.

Sure but, before this insurance thing was announced, I had already bought a ticket to go to US next year (I have to go anyway) to get an OA if the monthly 65K+ baht FTT-type deposit income thing has has not been resolved so my interest is more than hypothetical.

 

... and kudos to H. Naam above.

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For those who think that any problem that arises in Thailand must be unique to Thailand ... exactly the same issue is canvassed for Australia in an article in today's 'Australian' newspaper: $30m a year expenses not paid by tourists in NSW alone; question of compulsory health insurance; difference between elective & emergency care ...

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13 minutes ago, Naam said:

speak for yourself. we are presently looking back at 14 years -not only secure but extremely rewarding- retirement in Thailand and smile when we hear the proverbial floggings of dead horses such as 

-them xenophobes don't want us,

-they only want our dollars,

-they keep changing the goal posts,

-Viet Nam... Cambodia... Philippines... Belize... Ecuador... here we come,

-p*ssed off with double pricing,

-living in my home country is now cheaper than living in Thailand,

-a bottle of beer is cheaper in (insert country),

-bla-bla-bla-yakety-bla-bla-bla-yak-bla-bla.

:guitar:

 

Great, glad you are happy.

But, Thailand is a crap shoot. You either win or loose, there is no middle ground here.

Not the way I live my life, but some can gamble away their money with no worries what so ever.

Love Thailand, great food, cheap as chips. Nice place to visit and hang out for a while.

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4 minutes ago, garyk said:

Not the way I live my life, but some can gamble away their money with no worries what so ever.

i wonder whether saving ~45% of my income by not paying income tax in my home country can be called "gambling away money". please enlighten me.

:smile:

 

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Just now, JLCrab said:

So is Texas.

There are so many great places in this world, It is amazing.

Thailand is one of them. It just is not geared for retirement at the present.

The main thrust here is don't burn your bridges.

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Just now, Naam said:

i wonder whether saving ~45% of my income by not paying income tax in my home country can be called "gambling away money". please enlighten me.

:smile:

 

I was talking about buying property here in another person's name or a business venture. Not being able to invest in a secure retirement is paramount to retiring.

I save over 50% of my monthly income while living here? That is a mute point IMO.

If you haven't burnt your bridges back home or have the funds to relocate you are doing great. No worries for you.

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Just now, JLCrab said:

What bridges -- there are some nice wooden covered bridges where I like to stay in Vermont but I would never consider burning them.

Image result for covered bridge vermont

Haha, my point exactly.

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5 minutes ago, garyk said:

Haha, my point exactly.

Those bridges in Vermont are because of all the snow and freezing ice so what point were you making when no bridges like that in Texas? I don't want to own property in Thailand, I don't want to own a business in Thailand, I don't want a job in Thailand, I have no legal spouse or children in Thailand, I have no investments in Thailand, so i guess I don't have any bridges to burn in Thailand either. 

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I still can't work out why it is possible to buy good travel insurance for between around $600 to $1500 AUD a year that has unlimited medical and hospital cover plus covers many other eventualities while `travelling` but medical insurance costs are prohibitive.  I'm over 70 and just would not pay their price if I could.

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1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Those bridges in Vermont are because of all the snow and freezing ice so what point were you making when no bridges like that in Texas? I don't want to own property in Thailand, I don't want to own a business in Thailand, I don't want a job in Thailand, I have no legal spouse or children in Thailand, I have no investments in Thailand, so i guess I don't have any bridges to burn in Thailand either. 

Smart IMO.  

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59 minutes ago, AboutThaim said:

I still can't work out why it is possible to buy good travel insurance for between around $600 to $1500 AUD a year that has unlimited medical and hospital cover plus covers many other eventualities while `travelling` but medical insurance costs are prohibitive.  I'm over 70 and just would not pay their price if I could.

Travel insurance will not cover you if you are spending most of your time in Thailand, that is how Insurance companies see it, they will take your money and reject any claims.

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I'm self insured for a very large amount if I have to spend it on compulsory insurance I won't have any money if I fell sick. 

So will be leaving and taking my money with me. 

Insurance company's employ loss adjusters who's job it is to weasel out of paying any claim

So let's not call it insurance let's call It health tax

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4 hours ago, garyk said:

Great, glad you are happy.

But, Thailand is a crap shoot. You either win or loose, there is no middle ground here.

Not the way I live my life, but some can gamble away their money with no worries what so ever.

Love Thailand, great food, cheap as chips. Nice place to visit and hang out for a while.

Thailand WAS on course to be one of the top

retirement destinations in the world....Before the last few years builders were building loads and loads of condos to meet future demand....But it seems to me Thailand is working hard to become retirement unfriendly.......They yap about hub of this hub of that bla bla bla most of it complete nonsense....I guess a retirement hub is just not as sexy as a high tech hub... 

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This is just another example of the brain dead members of the current administration doing nearly everything in their power, to discourage ex-pats from living here. There are countless ways they make us feel unwelcome. Frankly, I think they should be doing just the opposite, and designing policy to make life easier for us. But, with incompetent, nationalistic, naive fools such as the biggest joke in charge, not likely that is going to happen. Fortunately, I do not run into many Thai people who echo their sentiment. Hordes of foreigners are leaving, and this is happening at a time when Western tourism is way way down, and Thailand is stuck with over 10 million Chinese tourists, who just do not spend as much money as the Western tourists used to, despite what some of the rather inane studies are showing about the "average", which does not apply to bucket tourists who come here from China, on $400 all expense paid tours. This is the worst peak tourist season in memory. With up to 20% of the nation's income derived from tourism, you would think they would connect the dots, and realize that ex-pats spend alot of money, invest alot of money, and help keep the economy going too. 

 

And no, I do not agree with the proposal that health insurance be mandatory. Many of us choose to pay out of pocket, and can afford to do so. I do not buy into the hysteria surrounding the theory that many leave behind big hospital bills. I do not think many ex-pats are a burden to the system on any level. Quite the opposite, in reality.

 

Hopefully, Prayuth and his band of cronies will be run out of town during the next election. They are despised by the Thai people, as well as the army.

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There's been an increase in GoFundMe campaigns for sick and injured expats in Thailand. It’s all very sad. Some are young people who didn’t have—or lacked adequate—insurance. Others are older guys who couldn’t get cover for critic health issues because of their age.  

 

FORWARD PLANNING

 

I recently prepared an Advanced Decision document after a diagnosis earlier this year. Alas, it put me in the “pre-existing health condition” category. My report lists definite dos and don’ts if I get too sick to communicate or die without warning. A printed copy of this file is in my condo and easy to find.  I also plan to keep a signed copy in a law office in the New Year.

 

I think an official “Advanced Decision” is a sensible thing for anyone to prepare at any age. It can save an awful lot of time and upset providing it's witnessed and deemed legal. A legal file may also be a better alternative to health insurance for the uninsurable. Or, perhaps it can help to determine more affordable coverage, depending on its contents.

 

Stubby

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I have a  UN "No limit" ODP + Hospital coverage, with some deductibles, which mimics most European health coverage. So if they extended their brilliant non O-X scam to extensions of stay I'd probably end up paying the 70000 a year bribe. I'd probably bite the bullet and see it as 3% income tax, but on the other hand, since there would be no connection between the two systems, I'd double claim to the largest extent possible, and lie about any preexisting condition.

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21 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There are countless ways they make us feel unwelcome.

I have lived here now for 15 years and never felt unwelcome living in the hinterlands. I guess my rose-colored glasses must be working real good. Then again maybe I don't get the feeling that I am unwelcome because I don't walk around letting all the Thai folk know that I feel unwelcome.

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I did not vote as my preferred answer was not an option:

 

Insurance should be mandatory but (1) consist only of inpt cover at level not less than 3 million baht and (2)  include either a self-insuring option (i.e. posting a bond of several million baht) OR, ideally, a system whereby resident expats can purchase into either the SS or "30 baht" scheme.

 

The regulation currently proposed is not in any way reasonable:  people will be required to purchase unnecessary outpt cover and will still not  have adequate protection for hospitalization costs, and there is no provision for the many people whose pre-existing conditions make them uninsurable.

 

But the principle of requiring that people demonstrate the means to pay for health care -- including catastrophic costs - is valid.  Just needs to be better thought through and to reflect actual needs and conditions.

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6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I did not vote as my preferred answer was not an option:

 

Insurance should be mandatory but (1) consist only of inpt cover at level not less than 3 million baht and (2)  include either a self-insuring option (i.e. posting a bond of several million baht) OR, ideally, a system whereby resident expats can purchase into either the SS or "30 baht" scheme.

 

The regulation currently proposed is not in any way reasonable:  people will be required to purchase unnecessary outpt cover and will still not  have adequate protection for hospitalization costs, and there is no provision for the many people whose pre-existing conditions make them uninsurable.

 

But the principle of requiring that people demonstrate the means to pay for health care -- including catastrophic costs - is valid.  Just needs to be better thought through and to reflect actual needs and conditions.

That mostly sounds reasonable but if the only option was to post a bond of several million baht, I think they would lose 99 percent of the expats here. So if that's their goal, they should go for it.

I totally support a plan where expats can buy into the government system even if there is a foreigner premium (as in Ecuador). 

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5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That mostly sounds reasonable but if the only option was to post a bond of several million baht, I think they would lose 99 percent of the expats here. So if that's their goal, they should go for it.

I totally support a plan where expats can buy into the government system even if there is a foreigner premium (as in Ecuador). 

I was not suggesting posting a bond as the only option but rather as an alternative for those who prefer it or are unable to get insurance. The last situation could be avoided by a system allowing people to pay into the government system, but according to multiple posters here  claim they can readily afford to pay any and all medical costs  but do not want to be insured.  I suspect some of those in fact don't have the money, but some probably do, and no reason not to allow it as an option as long as it is properly designed so that they really do have to keep an adequate amount put aside.

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