SURVEY: Health Insurance -- Are requirements fair?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I am wondering if anyone knows about Medicare in the US. I am eligible but have not yet enrolled. My cost would be between $400 and 500 per month for Basic Medicare plus gap insurance and Part D coverage. 

I have been told that they will not cover overseas citizens....is that correct? Is there a way around it?

It's absolutely true that you can't use it abroad, even in Mexico. I mention Mexico because there has been lobbying for years to include Mexico where the majority of retired Americans abroad live. 

As far as enrolling in any extra parts, many Americans living abroad do enroll and pay for that to avoid penalties if they end up repatriating. It's more expensive if you delay it. For people that are fully certain that they will never repatriate, it could be argued paying for that would be a waste of money.

[nong38]

10 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

For me this is an important issue. If they enact it, I will leave Thailand. I am in the very happy position whereby if I get a 2 or 3 million baht medical bill one year I can manage it. I have looked at insurance rates and exclusions by age and concluded that taking insurance out for me was foolish, I would only enrich the insurance company. I have been 'bare' more than 10 years. Paying outrageous premiums for limited coverage is a fools game. I have saved enough already for a really major medical expense but not having insurance....probably a million baht ahead.

 

You all do know that the lobbyists for insurance companies are lobbying for this, don't you? You don't think that the issue just arose spontaneously?

 

If the government were to ask for a two or three thousand baht a year, added to the visa extension, to allow farangs to access the public health system I would support that.....but I resent feeding the vultures in the insurance industry

Spot on!

[nong38]

6 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

I entirely agree that people entering Thailand, as tourists or otherwise, should have health insurance, sufficient to cover health costs in Thailand. I can't say that the limits required by the suggested regulation are the right ones, as I do not know the average costs incurred by hospitals and clinics in the last few years. However, where I think the regulation is wrong is that it requires the insurance to be with a Thai insurance company. Surely, a person entering Thailand with a proof of an insurance with adequate limits by an insurance company from her/his home country (e.g. Travel insurance, or a short term health cover), valid in Thailand and other countries, should be sufficient. This is a practice valid in most countries in Europe. For Thais to get a Schengen visa, a certificate of insurance from a Thai insurer is fully acceptable. Why should Thailand insist on Thai insurers?

Pass the fat envelope.

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, fforest1 said:

The OA is just a trial balloon.....The number of OAs issued is pretty small so not to many people will be complaining....But sure as the sun comes up the insurance scam will start to spread to other visa classes....

The OX visa already has the insurance scam requirement and look how popular that visa is....Its as popular as warm beer......

 

Farangs are not given the opportunity to skip out of paying hospital bills in Thailand.....Is a huge lie that loads of deadbeat farangs are a burden to the Thai health care system....

Thais may not pay their hospital bills (know lots of them) thus huge hole in their accounting to cover that.... force farangs to buy insurance

[Jingthing]

As some people know, a kind of "hobby" of mine is following retirement visa policies in the limited number of countries that have some kind of status for that. 

 

In the E.U. expensive private insurance is required if you're not from the E.U. Not sure how Brexit will impact UK people on that.

 

The other countries that have programs, mostly in Asia and Latin American generally do not require health insurance. 

 

However, Ecuador does.

First they said all tourists must have it but they realized that was going to suppress tourism numbers so that eventually dropped that.

However my current information is that it is required for those with retirement status. 

Private or government. 

It used be you could buy into their sometimes decent government system (reportedly dependent on locality) for a bargain price of about 60 USD per month.

But they changed that to be about 12 percent of your stated income in your initial residency application. Meaning wealthier expats are mostly going private if they can be accepted because it would actually be cheaper than the government system!

Just saying that Thailand isn't reinventing the wheel considering this issue and it really shouldn't shock people if they actually follow through on this for one or more visa classes.

[Cleareye]

The requirements don't make any sense.  Suppose you're on a retirement visa and you're forced to get 400,000 baht worth of coverage.  You're already required to have 800,000 in the bank, which is double the mandated coverage.  So what's the sense of the policy?

 

Currently, the insurance coverage for an OA visa costs 69,000 a year for someone over 65.  That means your policy payments over six years would be almost equal to your coverage.  Any payments after that and you're just losing money.

 

One of the big reasons people have come here to retire is the low cost of health care.  You could cover your health-costs with your savings and income rather than having to buy prohibitively expensive insurance policies.  But layer an insurance policy on top of more stringent income requirements and annoying paperwork and Thailand's attaction as a retirement destination is bound to plummet.

 

It's difficult not to see this as a scam promoted by the insurance companies who will be able to get extra income for almost no risk.  Just soak the foreigner.  No doubt some special thai insurance polcy will be set up that will low, restricted coverage that is only meant to meet the new requirement. A viable, reasonably priced policy would be welcome but I don't see that happening. 

 

I guess retiree aren't a priority anymore unless they're in the elite program.  Still, if you discourage most Western foreigners from settling here, I wonder who's going to rent all of these high-priced condos that have gone up in the last 10 years.

 

 

 

 

[thaikahuna]

As we all know there are three sides to every story. There's your side, my side and the truth/facts. I don't care who you are or how good your health is, the decision to have insurance should be a personal one...not one mandated by the government.

 

That said, we all have seen stories everyday of people thinking they can handle a scooter or a jet-ski or getting blasted by some idiot as you're crossing the street. If you do not have insurance, you should have the where with all to be able to pay for any medical treatment.

 

I personally see this as a matter of the government doing all it can to extract still more of our hard-earned from our wallets and doing so with a smile on its face. Our job is to mitigate that to the extent possible with smiles on our faces.  The biggest issue with this, as I see it, is a matter of preexisting conditions. Most policies I have seen here will not cover preexistings for three years minimum, if at all. 

 

The case for me is moot. I have coverage for all of my military related conditions at 100% and anything not covered by my government is covered under my wife's policy from her job.

[1337markus]

When Thais have to do the same as farang then maybe it si a fair DISCUSSION point.

[Jingthing]

Malaysia's retirement program which requires much higher financial levels does require health insurance but I recall they waive that for applicants that can show that the applied but were rejected. That sounds reasonably fair if you can meet their levels. 

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

If the government would require the insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions and have no age limit at a reasonable cost I would gladly buy health insurance...  

Sure, we all would but is that possible to do? What might be great for us, might not be possible for a business to profitably provide. Medical care is expensive and getting more so.. 

 

Sometimes it is necessary to look at both sides. I am still wondering how doctors can spend $1MM or so for an education in a Western country and then come back here and take appointments for $15 a visit... it would be a long long way just to get back their investment. 

[fforest1]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Malaysia's retirement program which requires much higher financial levels does require health insurance but I recall they waive that for applicants that can show that the applied but were rejected. That sounds reasonably fair if you can meet their levels. 

I will gladly pay 2000 baht to be rejected....

[Jingthing]

Just now, fforest1 said:

I will gladly pay 2000 baht to be rejected....

I feel you. 

I remember in the U.S. before ACA when I was between jobs calling insurance brokers that advised me based on preexisting conditions not to even apply for health insurance because then it would be on my record as having being rejected (which you needed to state on any future applications). 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

3 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

I usually get an 0 visa but seldom stay more than three months. I used to stay six but the government back home is watching a little closer and I may loose Canadian health benefits for staying more than three months. I already have a drivers license ,a yellow house book, a pink card and a couple of bank accounts. So next year I will get a tourist visa that means $100 dollars less f.or the Thai government

 

Just go to Alberta and you'll get health benefits from day one. For this reason alone I'm thinking of selling my condo in Toronto and buying in Calgary or Edmonton.

[wotsdermatter]

3 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

the government back home is watching a little closer and I may loose Canadian health benefits for staying more than three months

In Ontario, OHIP allows us to be out of Ontario for up to 7 months a year and be covered, and that includes leaving Ontario and going to other provinces or other countries.  However, the covered person has to pay the full amount then submit the bill to OHIP where the documentation is thoroughly reviewed and if there are no pre-existing conditions, and all is within their jurisdiction, they reimburse the amount.  However, they may not pay to the full amount of the Ontario level but depend on each location.  For example, they usually pay full amounts for Thailand but not for the U.S.A. due to the higher rates applied in that location.

 

You state you may lose Canadian Health benefits if out for more than three months.  However, that is not true and I suggest that you check next time you are in Canada or e-mail and get the correct facts.  Alternatively, use Google and check provincial conditions.

 

'nuf sed

[JESSVANPELT]

The problem that no one seems to address is huge expense that the Thai hospitals have been absorbing by non paying patients for years. Throughout the country tourists and retirees  have continually abused the system, getting treatment and hospitalization and then walking out without paying. This typically has happened in the government hospitals through out the country. PLEASE remember this occurs nationwide not just in the big cities where most expats reside.

 

So ask your self one question if the expats and some tourists are not paying there bills whats the best things to do?, require some sort of coverage.

 

I Have always felt  that for retiree here, that requiring health insurance was more important then the 800,000.

 

I also feel that the purposed outpatient requirement is totally off base as most of the insurers only pay 1000 to 1500 baht per visit, unless you have a very large policy.

 

And yes the over 70 group would need affordable coverage and the over 80 group would need available coverage now which they cannot get, I believe and I may be wrong that even if you have an existing policy once you reach 80 they stop coverage. ( I guess we can stay here until we are 80)

 

Just my thoughts, we will see what sorts out

[Jingthing]

I think you're exaggerating the extent of the abuse. Thailand is not required to care for foreigners that can't pay. Will they stabilize people that show up bleeding out? I suppose usually so but that isn't much. 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's absolutely true that you can't use it abroad, even in Mexico. I mention Mexico because there has been lobbying for years to include Mexico where the majority of retired Americans abroad live. 

As far as enrolling in any extra parts, many Americans living abroad do enroll and pay for that to avoid penalties if they end up repatriating. It's more expensive if you delay it. For people that are fully certain that they will never repatriate, it could be argued paying for that would be a waste of money

You are correct but it is one of the most naive thinking of US citizens living here.  Several guys I know have no insurance as they think Medicare will cover them while "living" abroad. NO it won't. 

There is actually some stipulation if you are traveling that Medicare may reimburse you for hospital costs.

But residing in a foreign country no way.

[bkk6060]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're exaggerating the extent of the abuse. Thailand is not required to care for foreigners that can't pay. Will they stabilize people that show up bleeding out? I suppose usually so but that isn't much. 

Then there was that recent story where the hospital emergency claimed they ran out of stitching materials so I guess one never knows. ????

[digger70]

Well now .this could be so good and benefit everyone. Only if the thai Government could come up with a reasonably  insurance  package instead of what the Rip of Insurance companies have.People would jump at the chance and bush the Insurance companies.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's absolutely true that you can't use it abroad, even in Mexico. I mention Mexico because there has been lobbying for years to include Mexico where the majority of retired Americans abroad live. 

As far as enrolling in any extra parts, many Americans living abroad do enroll and pay for that to avoid penalties if they end up repatriating. It's more expensive if you delay it. For people that are fully certain that they will never repatriate, it could be argued paying for that would be a waste of money.

Unfortunately, there is no way around it- it will not cover overseas expats.  However, there is a large movement in the US called Medicare for  all which if eventually passed- will cover everyone American and legal residents.  This will eventually replace the insurance schemes there are and may provide coverage overseas.  It is being touted by the Democrats who are indicating that since healthcare is a human right that universal coverage is needed.

Since all of us who have worked for years have paid into Medicare- it should cover us overseas and if it did-it would save the system millions as  medical costs in Thailand-even at private hospitals are  at least 50% lower than in the US.

 

On the Thai Embassy web site in the US and in Australia under the O-X Visa which does require insurance- there are 4 or 5 Thai insurance companies listed.  One will  provide coverage up to 100 years. I believe the premium for age 70-75 is around 92,000 Thai Baht per year. High for what you get but workable if necessary.  

[UKresonant]

Thankfully I've never needed in patient treatment outside the UK.

When I've required out patient assistance I always paid cash, no insurance involvement.

 

I always have travel insurance, but I voted that the insurance should not be compulsory, only as I think the proposals suggested would be a ticket for the insurance companies to print money, without providing a suitable product.

 

The Banks could come up with a Savings account, that has add on benefits such flat rate hospital room cover, capped accident benefit or the like, not age or pre-existing condition loaded. This would then be like a deductable against any competitive insurance  policies they wish to offer. The Money in these accounts would be allowed against the 400k/800k extension requirement, and anyone can open them, ( no work permit required etc)

[chainarong]

5 hours ago, fforest1 said:

The OA is just a trial balloon.....The number of OAs issued is pretty small so not to many people will be complaining....But sure as the sun comes up the insurance scam will start to spread to other visa classes....

The OX visa already has the insurance scam requirement and look how popular that visa is....Its as popular as warm beer......

 

Farangs are not given the opportunity to skip out of paying hospital bills in Thailand.....Is a huge lie that loads of deadbeat farangs are a burden to the Thai health care system....

I don't think the dead beat farangs are the issue, if you don't take out insurance, the go fund me people will possibly be another winner, its all okay till its not okay and when the boots on the other foot, then everyone starts beefing about the poor hard done by uninsured, for what it's worth , if you can't afford it don't leave home.

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Is a huge lie that loads of deadbeat farangs are a burden

There are stories frequently about farang running up humongous charges they are unable to pay and neither you nor I know how many less spectacular cases there are. And the deadbeats create losses for hospitals that have to be covered one way or another. Right now they make it up by raising prices for those of us who do pay our bills. 

 

If if you don't want to be insured or pay your bills, that's irresponsible and demonstrates an irresponsible sense of entitlement.

 

if you went into a restaurant, ate a meal and then announced you couldn't pay or walked out of a shop with something you didn't pay for you'd be arrested, but because this involves illness or injury you expect to play on everyone's sympathy. Poor me I got sick. Boo hoo.

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

I will gladly pay 2000 baht to be rejected....

I will reject you for nothing... that's it - don't contact me anymore!

[Caine]

This is why only mugs retire here most burning their bridges at home marrying Thai women. Most uninsured all brain dead, now visas are in jeopardy nowhere to run to.

[direction BANGKOK]

Hospitals should set up whatever policies they need to run their business. Forcing people to buy products is never the correct answer. This reminds me of what credit card companies have been able to do. You essentially have to use their products to even rent an apartment (or live).

[bkk6060]

Just add this to the list of things agents are salivating about.

 

[Hoppyone]

6 hours ago, sfokevin said:

If the government would require the insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions and have no age limit at a reasonable cost I would gladly buy health insurance...  

Hear hear,and if you knew you were going to be covered for whatever sickness or accident you may happen to get while travelling a lot more travellers would consider a policy,rather than not covered due to ????

[CMNightRider]

If immigration follows through with their latest health insurance requirement, it will be just another way to fleece foreigners.  This coming year immigration plans to require foreigners to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.  Most foreigners have many times over this amount in their home bank accounts, along with monthly incomes that far exceed the 65,000 a month requirement.  

 

According to immigration, their officers are unable to understand foreign bank statements so they say they want to see 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.  Many of us have health insurance that is good all over the world.  The problem is if these people are unable to understand a simple foreign bank statement, they surely will claim they can't understand what our foreign health insurance covers.  

 

I will bet immigration will require us to purchase some lame Thai health insurance plan instead of acknowledging our foreign health insurance plans that are good all of the world.     

[dlclark97]

What in my mind and experience seems to be driving the requirement for mandatory insurance is the combination of frequent vehicle accidents involving visitors and expats/seniors being in hospital care without insurance.  Not many can afford to totally self insure.  Instead of forcing expats living in Thailand and contributing to the economy to buy overpriced insurance, fund payment for uninsured injury/accident/illness by charging every single visitor from any country a 500 baht surcharge as they enter the country.  In fairness every person paying road tax for a vehicle should also pay a surcharge to be designated for this purpose.  Motorbikes 300 baht; motorcycles, cars and pickups not for commercial use 500 baht; commercial pickups, buses, vans and trucks a surcharge based on their passenger or load carrying capacity.

 

Want to minimize road carnage.  Enact AND enforce a law requiring all vehicles be equipped with lighting as originally supplied with the new vehicle and that all lights are in operation DAY and NIGHT.  Lights help you see but as or more important, they help others see you.