SURVEY: Health Insurance -- Are requirements fair?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I was not suggesting posting a bond as the only option but rather as an alternative for those who prefer it or are unable to get insurance. The last situation could be avoided by a system allowing people to pay into the government system, but according to multiple posters here  claim they can readily afford to pay any and all medical costs  but do not want to be insured.  I suspect some of those in fact don't have the money, but some probably do, and no reason not to allow it as an option as long as it is properly designed so that they really do have to keep an adequate amount put aside.

Yes you're right of course that private insurance would almost definitely remain an option. So really I'm saying 99 percent of those that can't obtain private insurance. Sorry for the hyperbole. I do really want to see Thailand offer a buy in the government system for foreigners just as I really would like to see a path for permanent residence for people in retirement status. I doubt either will ever happen here.

 

To add the people that say they really have enough funds to self insure generally do not hold those funds mostly in Thailand. I don't think very many people are going to feel comfortable putting up a massive bond of their funds IN Thailand considering the known issues with repatriating money out of Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

Too much  BS, particularly with the lies and  false statements made about insurers and health insurance policies. 

1. Deductibles - A large deductible will make the coverage affordable and save the coverage for a catastrophic event.

2. Self Retention Program - if you are self financing it now, you can do it better and  become compliant, plus obtain, catastrophic coverage and obtain access to a third party who will negotiate or obtain lower costs for the health care being paid now.

It puzzles me that so many blowhards here have not made any effort to use some common sense. An insurer pays less for a procedure and care than a  general consumer because the insurer has purchasing power. You see this with COSTCO. Same principle. Health insurers can and do offer the facilities, all you have to do is to inquire and come with what you want. If your health agent contact can't do it, time to talk to the head office or get someone who is not a general sales agent.

On 12/30/2018 at 8:31 AM, mikebell said:

I'd love to be able to afford Medical Insurance (at 76 the cost is prohibitive) and keep 800,000 in a Thai bank.  If I am forced to do both I will have to take my pensions elsewhere.

Thailand doesn't need you despite your assumption that you believe that  your pensions are an attractive item. You do not bring much to the country with your current status. This doesn't mean that you are not a nice guy or wonderful, just that economically, you are of no use, just as you would be in your home country.

On 12/30/2018 at 9:12 AM, The Old Bull said:

I usually get an 0 visa but seldom stay more than three months. I used to stay six but the government back home is watching a little closer and I may loose Canadian health benefits for staying more than three months. I already have a drivers license ,a yellow house book, a pink card and a couple of bank accounts. So next year I will get a tourist visa that means $100 dollars less f.or the Thai government

Check again. The rules in some provinces are based upon cumulative days. The clock starts at day 21 for some provinces. You could easily fly in for 70 days, go home for a bit and come back, stay 20 days, go out and come back and stay 89 days without a problem for your health insurance. 20 days would not register. Read your provincial rules.

 

 

On 12/30/2018 at 10:10 AM, bert bloggs said:

So if your 70 plus with a family ,but cannot get insurance ,will you be deported ,even after living here for over 10 years?

Not yet. However, if you are 70 and cannot get health insurance, you  have bigger problems and will most likely be dead within a few years.

 

17 hours ago, assayer said:

It isn't only us expats who are taking in the shorts; the wives and children who are dependent upon us now will also be facing some really drastic measures if we have to leave because of the bureaucratic stupidity of these people who are running this government.

I am currently and have since I moved here in 2007 contributed over a million baht each and every year into the Thai economy. And I receive lots of incentives for continuing doing this; such as dual pricing, 90 day reporting, not being able to buy land, take any money out of Thailand, etc, etc.

I can't afford to go buy an insurance policy because of my age; the costs would be astronomical. BUT, I also haven't been a burden on the Thai government, have paid cash for all three of my surgeries since being here.

There is so much talk of the quality tourists from China and how much they contribute to the economy, I would like to know how many are putting one million baht into Thailand each year.

So you contributed 1 million baht. What have you done? Built a school? Financed a clinic? If you have paid for general living products or services, you have not really contributed  1 million baht as all those products and services would have been  purchased whether you were here or not. If anything you left a costly footprint as you used electricity, water, food and other resources that could have been used elsewhere.

BTW 1 million is nothing compared to the actual big spenders. There are  Russians and Arabs who drop 10 million baht without a blink of the eye. The Chinese big shots spend 1 million baht in a week. The Japanese  golfers on their holidays do similar. All of these people 

are more important economically than the typical TVFer.

[KiChakayan]

55 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I was not suggesting posting a bond as the only option but rather as an alternative for those who prefer it or are unable to get insurance. The last situation could be avoided by a system allowing people to pay into the government system, but according to multiple posters here  claim they can readily afford to pay any and all medical costs  but do not want to be insured.  I suspect some of those in fact don't have the money, but some probably do, and no reason not to allow it as an option as long as it is properly designed so that they really do have to keep an adequate amount put aside.

Indeed, a bond could also cover gaps, such as deductibles, between existing covers and whatever the Thai authorities may dream up. In my case with a 100000 bond I'd have a true unlimited cover from the first Baht.

[Naam]

6 hours ago, garyk said:

I save over 50% of my monthly income while living here? That is a mute point IMO.

that is one perspective.

 

the other one is "i use a part of the savings based on the income tax free jurisdiction to finance not only a very comfortable but (even compared with western standards) luxurious life style."

 

all afore-mentioned of course in my [not so] humble opinion. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I was not suggesting posting a bond as the only option but rather as an alternative for those who prefer it or are unable to get insurance. The last situation could be avoided by a system allowing people to pay into the government system, but according to multiple posters here  claim they can readily afford to pay any and all medical costs  but do not want to be insured.  I suspect some of those in fact don't have the money, but some probably do, and no reason not to allow it as an option as long as it is properly designed so that they really do have to keep an adequate amount put aside.

I'd be happy to pay into the government system, provided I was not being gouged. That's the rub. Or continue to self-insure.

My concern is having an extension refused because I don't have the mandated insurance, or being denied entry despite having a valid multiple re-entry permit. Or being denied insurance due to pre-existing conditions and age. That would leave me in an impossible position. Seems the Thai reverence for older people does not extend to farangs as far as Thai officialdom is concerned.

 

I have my exit strategies in place if push comes to shove. They will cause me, my Thai GF, and her family a lot of distress.

 

The Thai bureaucrats who are proposing this look on it as a win-win for hospitals and insurance companies. They don't consider the potential adverse effects.

My contribution to the Thai economy is about 1 million baht per year. That's money spent on my GF and her family, rent of a condo, regular golf (caddies ) and massage, and eating out at restaurants almost daily. The agent who assists with my visas won't have my business anymore. That won't replaced by a package Chinese tourist. Also, my demands on Thai infrastructure are going to be far less than the 80 - 100 Chinese required to make up for the shortfall I create if I leave.

In addition, there is a balance of 1.5 million baht in Thai banks earning about 1.5% interest which they then lend out at 6-7% to Thais. That balance will be converted to US dollars and euros as I bow out.

 

Meantime, I'm deferring any large expenditures ( e.g. new car ) until some clarity is forthcoming.

 

If enough longer-term expats are potentially put in the same position as me, I'm predicting what the bureaucrats think of as win-win will turn into lose-lose.

 

 

 

 

[Richard S]

Anyone out there can tell how much the minimum insurance would be ...  please

 

[nong38]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This is just another example of the brain dead members of the current administration doing nearly everything in their power, to discourage ex-pats from living here. There are countless ways they make us feel unwelcome. Frankly, I think they should be doing just the opposite, and designing policy to make life easier for us. But, with incompetent, nationalistic, naive fools such as the biggest joke in charge, not likely that is going to happen. Fortunately, I do not run into many Thai people who echo their sentiment. Hordes of foreigners are leaving, and this is happening at a time when Western tourism is way way down, and Thailand is stuck with over 10 million Chinese tourists, who just do not spend as much money as the Western tourists used to, despite what some of the rather inane studies are showing about the "average", which does not apply to bucket tourists who come here from China, on $400 all expense paid tours. This is the worst peak tourist season in memory. With up to 20% of the nation's income derived from tourism, you would think they would connect the dots, and realize that ex-pats spend alot of money, invest alot of money, and help keep the economy going too. 

 

And no, I do not agree with the proposal that health insurance be mandatory. Many of us choose to pay out of pocket, and can afford to do so. I do not buy into the hysteria surrounding the theory that many leave behind big hospital bills. I do not think many ex-pats are a burden to the system on any level. Quite the opposite, in reality.

 

Hopefully, Prayuth and his band of cronies will be run out of town during the next election. They are despised by the Thai people, as well as the army.

I think you have spoken for many on this subject, well said and put!

[nong38]

If this scheme advances the one thing I have not as yet seen is this. As many here are on a retirement Visa and at least some of the long stay may well turn into Retirement visas and as Retirement suggests to me that this where you intend to end your days the AGE issue is the elephant in the room. Right now when you get to 74 no one wants to know, have seen some up to 85 but no mention on this proposal so I guess its going to be the old story you wont be able to get insurance at some time and then its bye bye time we don't want you here anymore.

 

I would be happy to but into the GVT scheme and top up as and when required if I needed more than the basic attention.

Discussing hospitalization with the bank, they said it was no problem, they would come to the hospital ( with partner ) with withdrawal forms and return later with cash.

[nong38]

30 minutes ago, Richard S said:

Anyone out there can tell how much the minimum insurance would be ...  please

 

Have a look at AA insurance in Pattaya ( not the Automobile Association ) have a play around their site should give you an idea, use different ages to see what happens to premiums.

[JLCrab]

24 minutes ago, nong38 said:

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Hopefully, Prayuth and his band of cronies will be run out of town during the next election. They are despised by the Thai people, as well as the army.

I think you have spoken for many on this subject, well said and put!

And be replaced by whom? Could maybe be somebody more sympathetic to the expat in Thailand or maybe by somebody worse.

[cnx355]

If they have minimum requirement for expats, they should force Insurers to have a minimum policy for older people that cannot get insured in Thailand  over 65 or 70 years old at the moment.

 

As for tourist visiting , up to them to make it a requirement when issuing a visa from the Embassies.

[AboutThaim]

8 hours ago, nong38 said:

Travel insurance will not cover you if you are spending most of your time in Thailand, that is how Insurance companies see it, they will take your money and reject any claims.

Well I suppose that's another good reason to not insure.  I've rung companies before taking out travel insurance to ask about this.  They say no problem.  The dates of travel are on the application as is the country you will spend most/all your time in.  Are they blatant liars or is it just that a few have had claims rejected and started this rumour?  When I do my research to find a company with good reviews I notice some will only cover you for 90 days but some will renew if you are still overseas after the policy expires.

[nong38]

2 hours ago, AboutThaim said:

Well I suppose that's another good reason to not insure.  I've rung companies before taking out travel insurance to ask about this.  They say no problem.  The dates of travel are on the application as is the country you will spend most/all your time in.  Are they blatant liars or is it just that a few have had claims rejected and started this rumour?  When I do my research to find a company with good reviews I notice some will only cover you for 90 days but some will renew if you are still overseas after the policy expires.

I am from the UK, to get travel insurance from the UK you have to have been resident in the UK for the previous 3 to 6 months, a fact I had checked from an old chum who ran insurance for a well known UK  retailer. 

I was also advised by AA insurance here in Thailand that if you are spending the majority of your time in Thailand you are not on holiday or travelling you are living here, its not travel insurance, travel insurance covers for travel and holidays, its up to you ( people taking out insurance ) to check the policy very carefully and not assume you are covered, the only way you will know for certain when you make a claim and insurance companies will look for any reason to make your claim invalid.

[GinBoy2]

On 12/30/2018 at 8:23 AM, marcusarelus said:

Thai history.  Land of Action, 1.  Elimination of slavery (no civil war).  Declared war on France and won (they got the monument to prove it) 2.  Declared war on The USA and Britain and lost (oh well you can't win them all but they tried even invaded Burma).  Sent troops to fight in both Vietnam and Laos and repulsed the border incursions of the Communists.  Enacted a 30 baht universal health care plan - US and Vietnam don't have one yet.  I could go on but the above represents a lot of action.  How many government takeovers?  Not proclamations but tanks in the street kind of thing has happened in the past few years.  Maybe you should revise your statement and get your head out of your bolt hole. 

Gotta love my pet troll.

 

Happy New Year btw

[mikebell]

17 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

economically, you are of no use,

I have lived here 15 years bringing in at least the minimum 65K per month demanded by Thai Immigration: paying Thai workers to build house/buying furniture/cars/sending stepdaughters to college/paying medical bills for my extended family/patronising restaurants & bars.  I think I am more important economically than any hundred Chinese tourists.

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, Richard S said:

Anyone out there can tell how much the minimum insurance would be ...  please

 

You'll be able to buy a bit of paper to cover you for whatever level immigration want for very little money.

Just don't expect it to ever pay out. There's always an easy way around all the regulations.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You'll be able to buy a bit of paper to cover you for whatever level immigration want for very little money.

Just don't expect it to ever pay out. There's always an easy way around all the regulations.

When you've worked out how to do that, I'm all ears.

For many, this may be the second jaw of the vice - the first being the elimination of income documents by the various embassies/consulates.

[KiChakayan]

19 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Too much  BS, particularly with the lies and  false statements made about insurers and health insurance policies. 

1. Deductibles - A large deductible will make the coverage affordable and save the coverage for a catastrophic event.

2. Self Retention Program - if you are self financing it now, you can do it better and  become compliant, plus obtain, catastrophic coverage and obtain access to a third party who will negotiate or obtain lower costs for the health care being paid now.

It puzzles me that so many blowhards here have not made any effort to use some common sense. An insurer pays less for a procedure and care than a  general consumer because the insurer has purchasing power. You see this with COSTCO. Same principle. Health insurers can and do offer the facilities, all you have to do is to inquire and come with what you want. If your health agent contact can't do it, time to talk to the head office or get someone who is not a general sales agent.

Thailand doesn't need you despite your assumption that you believe that  your pensions are an attractive item. You do not bring much to the country with your current status. This doesn't mean that you are not a nice guy or wonderful, just that economically, you are of no use, just as you would be in your home country.

Check again. The rules in some provinces are based upon cumulative days. The clock starts at day 21 for some provinces. You could easily fly in for 70 days, go home for a bit and come back, stay 20 days, go out and come back and stay 89 days without a problem for your health insurance. 20 days would not register. Read your provincial rules.

 

 

Not yet. However, if you are 70 and cannot get health insurance, you  have bigger problems and will most likely be dead within a few years.

 

So you contributed 1 million baht. What have you done? Built a school? Financed a clinic? If you have paid for general living products or services, you have not really contributed  1 million baht as all those products and services would have been  purchased whether you were here or not. If anything you left a costly footprint as you used electricity, water, food and other resources that could have been used elsewhere.

BTW 1 million is nothing compared to the actual big spenders. There are  Russians and Arabs who drop 10 million baht without a blink of the eye. The Chinese big shots spend 1 million baht in a week. The Japanese  golfers on their holidays do similar. All of these people 

are more important economically than the typical TVFer.

I am in awe...????

[spidermike007]

22 hours ago, JLCrab said:

I have lived here now for 15 years and never felt unwelcome living in the hinterlands. I guess my rose-colored glasses must be working real good. Then again maybe I don't get the feeling that I am unwelcome because I don't walk around letting all the Thai folk know that I feel unwelcome.

 

I was referring to the government, if you read the post. The people are lovely, and I feel totally welcome by the vast majority of the population, especially in the less populated, rural areas. 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I was referring to the government, if you read the post. The people are lovely, and I feel totally welcome by the vast majority of the population, especially in the less populated, rural areas. 

I was referring to the people AND the government at least those in the government with whom I've had to deal one-on-one which aside from Immigration folks, hasn't been much.

 

But maybe you feel unwelcome by people you've never met.

[AboutThaim]

15 hours ago, nong38 said:

I am from the UK, to get travel insurance from the UK you have to have been resident in the UK for the previous 3 to 6 months, a fact I had checked from an old chum who ran insurance for a well known UK  retailer. 

I was also advised by AA insurance here in Thailand that if you are spending the majority of your time in Thailand you are not on holiday or travelling you are living here, its not travel insurance, travel insurance covers for travel and holidays, its up to you ( people taking out insurance ) to check the policy very carefully and not assume you are covered, the only way you will know for certain when you make a claim and insurance companies will look for any reason to make your claim invalid.

Your reply doesn't address my question as to why travel insurance can be bought so much cheaper than medical insurance. If I travelled all over Asia for 12 months instead of staying in Thailand it would still cost the same.

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, AboutThaim said:

Your reply doesn't address my question as to why travel insurance can be bought so much cheaper than medical insurance. If I travelled all over Asia for 12 months instead of staying in Thailand it would still cost the same.

Travel insurance costs much less than regular medical insurance because it covers different things.

 

Regular health insurance covers you for all medically necessary care (some exceptions e.g. result of suicide attempts, or pregnancy related if maternity option not included).

 

Travel insurance (1) covers you only for urgent care that cannot wait until the end of your trip - it will not pay for things like cataract surgery, hip/knee replacements, hernia ops etc etc.  (2)  allows the insurer to, at its discretion and provided it can safely be done, pay to transport you back to your home country rather than pay for the care be provided abroad. Which it will opt to do largely comes down to cost. If it costs about the same or less, they will pay for the care to be given abroad. If it is a really big ticket item they will more likely pay to bring you back home. If you are initially too unstable to safely travel,   they will pay for some initial care abroad to stabilize you and then pay to bring you back home. Once you are back home they do not pay anything - you are required to be eligible for free care or have health insurance in your home country.

 

So naturally the costs are quite difference as the potential pay outs are far less under a travel policy.

 

For people who spend part of their time back in their home country a travel policy is indeed an option provided they have health cover in their home country and do not mind the idea of having to return home at any time if the need arises, and having all elective procedures done in their home country.

 

Re prior mention of requirements for the UK it sounds to me like those are for UK issued policies, you can get a travel policy issued elsewhere that does not require you to have been in the UK X months prior, but you do have to be NHS eligible.

 

Some travel policies include cover for "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisiting conditions. This is not the same as basic treatment of those conditions. For example, diabetes. Such a  policy will not pay for your insulin or other meds or routine diabetic care. But if during your trip you go into insulin shock or diabetic coma they would cover  treatment of that. So this is a potential solution for people whose pre-existing conditions make them ineligible for insurance in Thailand....but again, only if they have health cover in their home country.

[Lacessit]

On 12/31/2018 at 2:04 PM, geriatrickid said:

Too much  BS, particularly with the lies and  false statements made about insurers and health insurance policies. 

1. Deductibles - A large deductible will make the coverage affordable and save the coverage for a catastrophic event.

2. Self Retention Program - if you are self financing it now, you can do it better and  become compliant, plus obtain, catastrophic coverage and obtain access to a third party who will negotiate or obtain lower costs for the health care being paid now.

It puzzles me that so many blowhards here have not made any effort to use some common sense. An insurer pays less for a procedure and care than a  general consumer because the insurer has purchasing power. You see this with COSTCO. Same principle. Health insurers can and do offer the facilities, all you have to do is to inquire and come with what you want. If your health agent contact can't do it, time to talk to the head office or get someone who is not a general sales agent.

Thailand doesn't need you despite your assumption that you believe that  your pensions are an attractive item. You do not bring much to the country with your current status. This doesn't mean that you are not a nice guy or wonderful, just that economically, you are of no use, just as you would be in your home country.

Check again. The rules in some provinces are based upon cumulative days. The clock starts at day 21 for some provinces. You could easily fly in for 70 days, go home for a bit and come back, stay 20 days, go out and come back and stay 89 days without a problem for your health insurance. 20 days would not register. Read your provincial rules.

 

 

Not yet. However, if you are 70 and cannot get health insurance, you  have bigger problems and will most likely be dead within a few years.

 

So you contributed 1 million baht. What have you done? Built a school? Financed a clinic? If you have paid for general living products or services, you have not really contributed  1 million baht as all those products and services would have been  purchased whether you were here or not. If anything you left a costly footprint as you used electricity, water, food and other resources that could have been used elsewhere.

BTW 1 million is nothing compared to the actual big spenders. There are  Russians and Arabs who drop 10 million baht without a blink of the eye. The Chinese big shots spend 1 million baht in a week. The Japanese  golfers on their holidays do similar. All of these people 

are more important economically than the typical TVFer.

IMHO this post sets a new benchmark in sympathy and empathy.

If one is over 70, the message is get lost. One can but hope the stress of wondering what is going to happen gets to the poster as well. Any helpful suggestions on how you will get THAI health insurance yourself once you hit that age level? Or are you so farsighted as to have done that already, and can now lecture in smug self-satisfaction?

Yes, 1 million baht is not much in the scheme of things. However, there are a lot of expats who contribute at similar levels. Dismissing them in favor of a few ultra-wealthy tourists is facile. It's still equivalent to a lot of package Chinese tourists with an even costlier footprint. Resources that could have been used elsewhere? For what exactly?

One of my fall-back strategies is another country in SE Asia, distressing as that will be. I can but hope I don't encounter a totally insensitive person there.

 

[zydeco]

On 12/30/2018 at 1:00 PM, JESSVANPELT said:

So ask your self one question if the expats and some tourists are not paying there bills whats the best things to do?, require some sort of coverage.

Requiring insurance that does not cover pre-existing conditions will not help much with that. What happens when somebody insured, except for pre-existing conditions for something, say, like heart problems, walks into a Thai hospital with a heart attack? No money from insurance. Patient must pay. Or, according to you, hospital must absorb the bill--which I don't think they do much at all.  The insurance requirement will just bleed money from medical savings when someone actually needs it. It will make things worse.

[zydeco]

On 12/30/2018 at 6:19 PM, nong38 said:

If this does spread onto other visas their is going to be a ripple effect. if the worst happened and all foreigners up sticks and left how much money would suddenly flow out of Thai banks?

If they don't pass some law in the meantime where you can't transfer the money outside Thailand. If can pass one law, can pass several more, too.

[AboutThaim]

Thanks for your post Sheryl, it makes sense.  Now I'm left wondering about the truth regarding travel insurance not covering a person living in Thailand for several months rather than just holidaying.  I had read that insurance companies will not cover a person in that case and that is why I have phoned companies before taking out a policy.  It is probably a case of some do and some don't.  Do you know?  It seems to me that a person would be less risk just living in a country rather than continually travelling.

 

I still question why companies will not provide simple accident/serious illness health cover for expats at reasonable rates, surely it would be profitable.

 

Incidentally your reply to me some time back regarding health cover.  You provided names of three companies that were checked by another member who posted that none of them would provide cover for over 70`s.  But thanks anyway.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

If they don't pass some law in the meantime where you can't transfer the money outside Thailand. If can pass one law, can pass several more, too.

It's going to be difficult to stop anyone from purchasing gold, or other currencies, then taking that with you.

[Travill]

just have those on retirement visa keep the 800.000 bath in bank for a whole year for second time retirement visa . then if some big medical need rise then people on retirement visa have 800.000 bath ready to use.we do not need both deposit for 3 months 800.000 bath and medical insurance. one of this is enough.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Travill said:

just have those on retirement visa keep the 800.000 bath in bank for a whole year for second time retirement visa . then if some big medical need rise then people on retirement visa have 800.000 bath ready to use.we do not need both deposit for 3 months 800.000 bath and medical insurance. one of this is enough.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Not a bad idea. However, who knows where the goalposts will be if the Bangkok elite has its way?