Update: New Thai immigration rules for income!

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, mngmn said:

Check out Transferwise's Borderless Account. It solves many of the problems discussed here especially the problem of transferring exactly 65k baht each month.

 

Fees are low as well.

Check out if your bank can verify these are foreign transfers, too.  Immigration will be relying on the bank's documents - not likely accepting those of a 3rd party. 

 

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

I still wonder how you prove that the 65k baht is from your home country. Foreign transfers aren't always clear in some bank books.

Best to use a method that is clear - even if the fee and rate are not optimal.

 

Remember, folks, it's not "the truth" some are after - it is "can we disqualify this application on a technicality and generate a brown-envelope from an agent?"  If you have an honorable IO, then having your bases covered makes their job easier - so win-win either way.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There was comment after the Chiang Mai Town Hall Meeting that the U.S. Embassy staff hosted about embassy staff supposedly working with Immigration to acquaint them about supposedly understanding/recognizing the various forms of U.S. financial documentation such as Social Security statements, etc etc.

 

If the OP report here is correct, then obviously, whatever notion was afoot about Immigration dealing with foreign financial documents has apparently come to nothing.

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Too hard....too many different types of possible income docs...too many different languages and formats...just too complicated. 

They can always ask for more documentation - as they can now - if "too many" people are able to meet the new bar (100% of the minimum income imported). 

 

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

And as others have asked or posted, is transferring in 3 months worth of money quarterly say every 3 months going to be allowed? 

Both the US Consul and this report have indicated "every month."

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

So if somebody has cash on hand, say from just returning from a visit home and returned with say 10,000 USD, they would still have to make transfers? 

Maybe you could declare it at customs, then deposit it, then show the declaration - but I would not count on it. 

 

Both of these would be allowed if the goal were really to verify income - but this relies on honesty and good-will, which may be entirely absent from the equation.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, JackThompson said:

 

I would guess they would require the amount to be over 65K Baht/mo every time.  Those who cut it too close will get nailed by a currency-fluctuation, and become another agent-customer.

 

Unless you have an honorable IO, you become another agent-customer - or have to leave.  

If not transferring benefits directly, best to set up a recurring xfer with your passport-country bank.  Don't give them any rope to hang you with.

 

They'll get around to making the bank-method difficult to do w/o an agent, eventually.  Maybe add an "approval" period and then, like they are doing in some offices for marriage-based now, prevent using the bank-money during that time - effectively adding another "seasoning" month.  Then up the minimums, add insurance, etc 

 

But at least for a little while, they should be rolling in under-the-table dough, and hopefully too busy spending it to think up more ways to make honest applications more difficult.

 

If they can knock out the Canadians' letters, that should generate another windfall, given high numbers here.  But I'm not sure what the Canadian embassy's procedure is; if they actually check with all the sources that the amounts are correct, they might not be able to disqualify those. 

 

OTOH, given new rules are being made (and officially published rules, at that), they might just scrap the embassy-letter routine entirely.

The last table of expats residing in Thailand if I remember correctly, believe it or not showed the Italians to have the highest concentration here.

[Lovethailandelite]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If you just use another bank account for sending money back they won't see it ????

Or you could for example use https://www.dee.money/ to send it back, that's also cheaper for such small amounts than doing a bank to bank transfer yourself, and you could go to their branch and give them cash, or if you transfer it to them it just looks like you transferred the money to some person in Thailand.

When you get off of that tourist visa run, go for it and let us know how it pans out for you. Lets also see how long before the Thai banking system comes down on you doing these foreign transfers without FET documents from the incoming transfers ????

Edited January 4, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[jackdd]

14 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

When you get off of that tourist visa run, go for it and let us know how it pans out for you. 

Can't go for it yet, still quite a few years ahead before i can get a retirement visa / extension ????

But i will also probably never really have to worry about it, if i should still like to stay in Thailand when i'm 50 i will have gotten permanent residency before

 

14 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Lets also see how long before the Thai banking system comes down on you doing these foreign transfers without FET documents from the incoming transfers ????

If you do what i explained before you have FET documents for the incoming transfers, because the immigration officer allegedly also wants to see that it came from abroad, so no problem transferring a part of the money out of Thailand again.

Edited January 4, 2019 by jackdd

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If you just use another bank account for sending money back they won't see it ????

Or you could for example use https://www.dee.money/ to send it back, that's also cheaper for such small amounts than doing a bank to bank transfer yourself, and you could go to their branch and give them cash, or if you transfer it to them it just looks like you transferred the money to some person in Thailand.

Have to agree - no way to stop money moving - and someone doing this would just need to withdraw it incrementally so the withdrawals "look like ordinary spending." 

 

My first thought when this was proposed, is that many more could retire in Thailand now using such a scheme - people not willing to risk a felony-charge for lying at their embassy, or afraid of participating in the "in your face" corruption of the agent-system.

 

21 minutes ago, jackdd said:

...

I could imagine that many of these people for whom the saving on the agent fee is nearly half a month's pension will now switch to sending some extra money back and forth, thus the immigration officers get less money from agents, are of course not happy about this and will come up with rules which try to eliminate this.

But, these round-robin schemes would take some constant effort to accomplish.  I think most who cannot set up a monthly xfer of the min-amount (even if they have the required net-income) will just pay agents the difference.

 

But, if total agent-revenues do not rise as anticipated with this move, it is likely they will add some new ways to block honest-applicants. 

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But, these round-robin schemes would take some constant effort to accomplish

Depends on how much "spare" money they have, even people who don't have 800k probably still have some.

Let's take the numbers from before, somebody has 40k pension and needs to "topup" 25k per month.

If this person has 150k in savings he could transfer 25k of his savings per month to Thailand to reach the 65k income requirement, and every 6 months he transfers his 150k savings back home.

[davhend25]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I would never have my Social security payments or any other income direct deposited into a Thai bank.  I have seen enough issues with US banks, I would not want to get in the middle of using a Thai bank. I maintain a US presence and US financial institutions and will always continue to do so.  I understand why many do it, and I understand the pros and cons.  To each their own.

I'm with this guy....I'll gladly finish my retirement in the good old US of A. I'm not direct depositing any of my retirement income into a "Thai Bank."  Especially given that I would have to beg them to let me open an account...bye bye LOS!!! 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Depends on how much "spare" money they have, even people who don't have 800k probably still have some.

Let's take the numbers from before, somebody has 40k pension and needs to "topup" 25k per month.

If this person has 150k in savings he could transfer 25k of his savings per month to Thailand to reach the 65k income requirement, and every 6 months he transfers his 150k savings back home.

Still, 150K can't go at once, so need to make smaller withdrawals from the acct presented to immigration (to put in another account, in the safe, or etc).

 

It's a numbers-game.  Hard to predict, but seems to me their new scheme would tend to increase agent-revenues. 

Most "sending back" is more likely to be to cover passport-country bills, which should be fine, given the rule is "income" - not "net income after all expenses outside of Thailand." 

 

Then, we have those who spend months out of Thailand every year - who have to send their pensions to where they are - even if they have to send the money here first, to keep their Thai extensions workable.

[luckyluke]

So, if correct,

 

the 40/65000 should come from the home country.

 

Seems difficult to use an agent, but will see, sure they are inventive.

 

The 400/800000 from anywhere.

 

An agent can take care of it without problems ( so far ).

 

 

 

 

[balo]

Just use an agent, business as usual. 

 

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, Spidey said:

I still wonder how you prove that the 65k baht is from your home country. Foreign transfers aren't always clear in some bank books.

The 'document' from the bank should attest to that?

[JLCrab]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

But if now the income requirement is just to have 65k coming into your bank account each month you can in theory just send the whole amount back and forth between your Thai and your home country bank account and you are in compliance with the rules.

And in theory you might be also required to sign (another) paper to wit which if not true would be filing a false Police report in a police station:

 

 I hereby declare that I have not made any transfer of funds from my ___XYZ___ bank account in Thailand either directly or indirectly that were then re-deposited in the same bank ex-Thailand or any other bank ex-Thailand such that such funds are then again used to transfer monthly funds to ___XYZ___ bank in Thailand for purposes of this extension of stay request as per the accompanying TM7 form.

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, thequietman said:

What about those who earn in Thailand with work permits? Surely that income can also be counted towards the required amount.

Would they not have a work permit and not be in need of a retirement extension?

[elviajero]

22 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Would they not have a work permit and not be in need of a retirement extension?

They are referring to those with an extension as a spouse/parent that use income from a job in Thailand. An option not available to retirees.

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Remember, folks, it's not "the truth" some are after - it is "can we disqualify this application on a technicality and generate a brown-envelope from an agent?" 

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Because that's where the chicken's agent was.

[bkk6060]

Up early heading out to play some golf.

Overnight my friend sent me a copy of the new rules that have been sent out to all the offices in the various provinces.  I realize that nothing has been officially announced but the offices have it and I guess will do what they will do with it.  I did not post anything about the marriage rules because my friend knows I am not married and it did not concern me.  But to add, yes, you will have to show the same documentation for that.

To add, no I am not going to put a copy of it here.

I am just some guy on here who by no means claim to be some Visa expert. Just forwarding some information on this as I know many, including me, have been a little anxious about this very important topic. 

It seems most appreciate me updating this, and thank you, I can assure you it is totally authentic information. 

I do not appreciate a few negative comments from some of the "experts".  One claiming he new all about this and it is not new information.  Really, then why didn't you post it earlier and instead let another thread  continue with over 200 pages? For who and what??  Seems like some sad sour grapes.

But no matter, I am heading out to the links for a great day.

Happy New Year everyone. (I guess at some point we stop saying that) ???? 

Edited January 4, 2019 by bkk6060

[lamyai3]

10 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

NOTE: But for this year, they will "work with you" and accept what ever history of the 65,000 b you can show leading up to the extension.

They will make a mark or provide some document to you that at next years extension, you will be required to show 12 full months of 65,000 b deposits.

I wonder in 2019 (the first year of these new arrangements) what the minimum number of months of verifiable B65k transfers will be set at. The UK embassy used to accept three months of statements to issue an income letter. 

[ukrules]

9 hours ago, Spidey said:

I still wonder how you prove that the 65k baht is from your home country. Foreign transfers aren't always clear in some bank books.

Do they care where it comes from ? They don't care where the 800k comes from if you use that method.....

[LomSak27]

Yes coming in here late because I am about to head out the door too.

 

All the shop talk about the 65 K a month, does not mean that is the only way, CORRECT?! The 800K in account seasoned will still be accepted?! Sorry I haven't even got half a cup of coffee down so not sure, still fragile, with a little light off to the east. Have a good day. 

 

Thanks you  

 

[JLCrab]

14 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Do they care where it comes from ? They don't care where the 800k comes from if you use that method.....

I don't know but, if that's the case, I have accounts at 3 different Thai banks so only one 65K+ monthly deposit in one of them should suffice and then juggle in perpetuum back to the original account:

unless I have signed a :no juggling" statement to RTP IMM and if otherwise would be filing a false police report.

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by JLCrab

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

One claiming he new all about this and it is not new information.  Really, then why didn't you post it earlier and instead let another thread  continue with over 200 pages?

Posted by me on October 10th.

”I have been told (un-corroborated) that immigration are considering allowing the embassy letter for year one, but will want to see payments being received to a Thai bank account for subsequent years.”

 

There has been little more to say since because we’ve been waiting for the official announcement.

 

33 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

To add, no I am not going to put a copy of it here.

Why not? It is the details we need. 

 

 

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

The 800K in account seasoned will still be accepted?!

Yes.

[onera1961]

7 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The last table of expats residing in Thailand if I remember correctly, believe it or not showed the Italians to have the highest concentration here.

After the three neighboring countries, the largest concentration of expats are Chinese followed by UK, Japanese, Indians, US, Germany, France, etc. expats include people legally in Thailand including work permits excluding citizens and PR holders

Edited January 5, 2019 by onera1961

[elviajero]

28 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Do they care where it comes from ? They don't care where the 800k comes from if you use that method.....

Almost certainly, IMO. It should be foreign income so you should expect they will want proof.

 

They do care where the 800K comes from when applying for a non ‘O’ at immigration ahead of an extension. Fortunately they don’t enforce having proof from applicants with non ‘O’ or ‘O-A’ obtained abroad. Presumably because proof of foreign funds or income has, in some instances at least, been obtained by the consular staff issuing the visa. I would not be surprised if that little loophole gets plugged at some point.

Edited January 4, 2019 by elviajero

[Lacessit]

I can't see this working too well for a couple of reasons:

1/ Fluctuations in exchange rates will mean either guesswork every month, or transfer from the country of origin in Thai baht. That brings Dynamic Currency Conversion into play, the polite term for organised theft.

2/ Shell out transfer fees once a month? The term I would like to use is prohibited under forum rules. It starts and ends with the sixth letter of the Greco-Roman alphabet.

[anon537687643]

I would never have my Social security payments or any other income direct deposited into a Thai bank.  I have seen enough issues with US banks, I would not want to get in the middle of using a Thai bank. I maintain a US presence and US financial institutions and will always continue to do so.  I understand why many do it, and I understand the pros and cons.  To each their own.

Absolutely correct! It is protected by laws and courts! In Thai I know of a situation where a third party (employer) who was not satisfied that an employee ( bank account holder) gave sufficient notice to leave a company and was directly able to suspend the bank account of the employee. My point being things can be done by people who have influence, not some legal process !


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elviajero]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I can't see this working too well for a couple of reasons:

1/ Fluctuations in exchange rates will mean either guesswork every month, or transfer from the country of origin in Thai baht. That brings Dynamic Currency Conversion into play, the polite term for organised theft.

2/ Shell out transfer fees once a month? The term I would like to use is prohibited under forum rules. It starts and ends with the sixth letter of the Greco-Roman alphabet.

1. You don’t have to send exactly 65K. That is a minimum. It would only be an issue for people on the line. 

 

You could also keep some cash in an account and use a combination of cash/income to allow for rate fluctuations or shortfall in income.

 

2. How do people send their monthly pension income to Thailand now?

Edited January 5, 2019 by elviajero

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

An agent can take care of it without problems ( so far ).

Agents will always do using the 400/800K method. They will never use monthly method. 

[Lacessit]

Just now, elviajero said:

1. You don’t have to send exactly 65K. That is a minimum. It would only be an issue for people on the line.

 

2. How do people send their monthly pension income to Thailand now?

1. True. The question then becomes how many people are on the line, and how many people object to transferring more than necessary into Thailand.

2. I don't know about other countries. Centrelink in Australia will transfer pensions to a Thai bank. I don't know if fees are associated, because I have never used that route.

The maximum Australian pension is about 40K baht/month, so an Australian would have to top up to 65K/month with other funds. Fees there.