BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

21 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Sorry I am not sure to understand. As someone said above the Combo method still exists, so 30k monthly + 540k in the bank should still make this person qualify for Retirement Extension ??

As I read it the 30k is insufficient in Thai Immigration eyes to live on, I scanned the 1 million replies and get this impression

In fact I think that 30k/m + 540k was already not acceptable - even with the letter - in many Immigrations.

Many reports of places wanted the "money in the bank" to be "small" compared to the income. It must just be a complement to reach 800k, not the main part of your money.

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, ginjag said:

As I read it the 30k is insufficient in Thai Immigration eyes to live on, I scanned the 1 million replies and get this impression

But the combo-method has not gone away.

The only change, so far, is how one proves income now - by showing foreign-xfers to a Thai bank vs before - using an income-letter from your embassy.

 

Many reached the same conclusion you did, because the "new rules" did not address the "in the bank" or "combo" methods.

[sometimewoodworker]

37 minutes ago, Derek B said:

If you arrange to have your UK State Pension paid directly into a bank overeas other than in the EU or EEA you will probably loose your entitlement to any increases in the UK State Pension. Better to pay it into a UK bank or EU bank and draw on it as you require.

Where your pension is paid is irrelevant (mine is paid in the UK)

 

Where you live governs your entitlement to any increases. I think that HMRC & DWP are not good organisations to lie to.

 

for example 

Thailand, no entitlement to any increases,

The Philippines entitlement to any increases

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

In fact I think that 30k/m + 540k was already not acceptable - even with the letter - in many Immigrations.

Many reports of places wanted the "money in the bank" to be "small" compared to the income. It must just be a complement to reach 800k, not the main part of your money.

I would not be surprised local IOs making up non-existent rules - but if that were the case, the seasoned 800K method would have been even "worse" in their view.

 

Note that the published-rules for the combo method do not state a requirement for seasoning on the "money in the bank" part of the combo-application, but many/most offices DO require the same seasoning as a 100% "money in the bank" application would.

Edited January 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[geoffbezoz]

4 minutes ago, ginjag said:

As I read it the 30k is insufficient in Thai Immigration eyes to live on, I scanned the 1 million replies and get this impression

Yes you may be correct despite the fact the Thai minimum wage, working 25 days per month would only give you less than one third of that amount that immigration thinks you need to live on, even if married to a Thai.  Also those lower folk in immigration who are not party to scams and corruption likewise live on similar amounts so hence the figure has nothing to do with what you need to live on. Rather how much the country generally can scam out of foreigners albeit new foreign transfer requirements increasing transaction fees, increasing bank deposits, increasing business to their affiliated dodgy agents or otherwise.

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

In fact I think that 30k/m + 540k was already not acceptable - even with the letter - in many Immigrations.

Many reports of places wanted the "money in the bank" to be "small" compared to the income. It must just be a complement to reach 800k, not the main part of your money.

My only choice is to sell my car, or my condo to have 800k in the bank....OR pay out 500k to the Elite for a 5 year visa,  but as most people say---a waste.  but in my case after the 5 years I will be 82......who cares you cannot take your money to the grave  lol.  ( remembering not having the hassle to arrange transfers into a Thai bank) with an added bonus who knows what changes Thai Immigration will make in the next 5 years) The elite is safe of headaches for 5 years.   

[roobaa01]

when is the translation from the thai police order posted today like @ubonjoewrote yesterday ???

 

@ginjag even at 82 why dont u marry then itd only 400k

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Kerryd]

Do not get hung up over the term "pension".

What they (most likely) mean is "guaranteed income source".
"Pension" is just the generic term being used for assorted types of income from sources that are considered stable (like government/military/company pension plans). 

 

Things like "rental income" and "stock dividends" and "youtube ad revenue" are not "guaranteed income".

They expect that if you are living in Thailand on a Marriage or Retirement Visa/Extension, then you are (probably) not "working" and therefore any income you may (in most cases) would come from some kind of guaranteed pension plan like an RRSP (or whatever national equivalent you have).
(Sigh - yes I know that some of you are working - this isn't about "you" - it's about the "greater mass" of people.)

Keep in mind, they aren't taking your special case into consideration when they write up things like this. They write them up to "blanket cover" a host of different things. If they tried to include every possible "guaranteed income type" from every frikken country on the globe, just to try and include your special case, they'd be at it for years. Instead they just use the term "pension".

However it would appear that so long as your bank statements show regular deposits that average out to the required amount over the required period of time, you won't have to prove that those deposits are from any kind of "pension" or other guaranteed income source.
You would just need to show the bank statement(s) showing the deposits and the letter from the bank. The bank statements will only show that money was deposited from a (foreign) transfer. They don't show that "this deposit was from the UK Government Employee's pension plan and that deposit was from the ABS Fish Factory Company pension plan".

 

[ginjag]

3 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

when is the translation from the thai police order posted today like @ubonjoewrote yesterday ???

 

@ginjag even at 82 why dont u marry then itd only 400k

 

wbr

roobaa01

You mean marry a Thai woman at my 82 years and then keep her and her family and feed the buffalo  ???   ha ha h

[overherebc]

16 minutes ago, ginjag said:

My only choice is to sell my car, or my condo to have 800k in the bank....OR pay out 500k to the Elite for a 5 year visa,  but as most people say---a waste.  but in my case after the 5 years I will be 82......who cares you cannot take your money to the grave  lol.  ( remembering not having the hassle to arrange transfers into a Thai bank) with an added bonus who knows what changes Thai Immigration will make in the next 5 years) The elite is safe of headaches for 5 years.   

Safe, so far. ????????

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Do not get hung up over the term "pension".

What they (most likely) mean is "guaranteed income source".
"Pension" is just the generic term being used for assorted types of income from sources that are considered stable (like government/military/company pension plans). 

 

Things like "rental income" and "stock dividends" and "youtube ad revenue" are not "guaranteed income".

They expect that if you are living in Thailand on a Marriage or Retirement Visa/Extension, then you are (probably) not "working" and therefore any income you may (in most cases) would come from some kind of guaranteed pension plan like an RRSP (or whatever national equivalent you have).
(Sigh - yes I know that some of you are working - this isn't about "you" - it's about the "greater mass" of people.)

Keep in mind, they aren't taking your special case into consideration when they write up things like this. They write them up to "blanket cover" a host of different things. If they tried to include every possible "guaranteed income type" from every frikken country on the globe, just to try and include your special case, they'd be at it for years. Instead they just use the term "pension".

However it would appear that so long as your bank statements show regular deposits that average out to the required amount over the required period of time, you won't have to prove that those deposits are from any kind of "pension" or other guaranteed income source.
You would just need to show the bank statement(s) showing the deposits and the letter from the bank. The bank statements will only show that money was deposited from a (foreign) transfer. They don't show that "this deposit was from the UK Government Employee's pension plan and that deposit was from the ABS Fish Factory Company pension plan".

 

Every year I get confirmation of money paid and tax paid in UK.

The figures match the figures paid into my Thai bank.

Edited January 7, 2019 by overherebc

[JackThompson]

28 minutes ago, ginjag said:

My only choice is to sell my car, or my condo to have 800k in the bank....OR pay out 500k to the Elite for a 5 year visa,  but as most people say---a waste.  but in my case after the 5 years I will be 82......who cares you cannot take your money to the grave  lol.  ( remembering not having the hassle to arrange transfers into a Thai bank) with an added bonus who knows what changes Thai Immigration will make in the next 5 years) The elite is safe of headaches for 5 years.   

Earlier, you wrote:

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

UK pension of 30k will be sufficient with the 540k bank deposit.

If that is your case, you won't have to sell anything, and you have even more money "in the bank" than needed.  You could Transfer 30K income to a Thai Bank every calendar-month and keep 440K Baht minimum in a Thai bank account for 3 mo prior to applying for your extension.   Your combo-application would work like: (30K x 12 = 360K + 440K = 800K). 

 

Just add a bit extra "in the bank" to handle exchange-rate fluctuations.  But if you have 540K now, you are set.

Edited January 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[onera1961]

35 minutes ago, ginjag said:

My only choice is to sell my car, or my condo to have 800k in the bank....OR pay out 500k to the Elite

Just pay an agent instead of paying to TE. I have a feeling that agent prices are going to go down (specially in Pattaya) to accommodate various scenarios created by "no income letter" fiasco. Keep 500K. You may not need it in your advanced age but you never know. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by onera1961

[ginjag]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Earlier, you wrote:

If that is your case, you won't have to sell anything, and you have even more money "in the bank" than needed.  If you can Transfer your 30K pension to a Thai Bank every month and keep 440K Baht minimum in a Thai bank account for 3 mo prior to applying for your extension.   Your combo-application would work like: (30K x 12 = 360K + 440K = 800K). 

The 30k old age pension is approx paid now.  My pension was capped 11 years ago, because I live here ( UK wording, not normally reside in the UK) paid now 20k, this is with being honest as so many people do not tell the pension department.  Many persons will soon get a big shock as the department are now checking up on persons not informing,  MAYBE will owe the pensions back money already paid.......mega problem soon for some. Big brother is watching now.

[ginjag]

10 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Just pay an agent instead of paying to TE. I have a feeling that agent prices are going to go down (specially in Pattaya) to accommodate various scenarios created by "no income letter" fiasco. Keep 500K. You may not need it in your advanced age but you never know. 

My retirement renewal/extension ends Sept .  so will hang around until say June ...make a decision then. (agents may become has beans, Immigration laws altered again.....)  As I stated why on earth do they not as in some countries pocket big money and charge a high fee annually say 50k 90 day report, end of fiasco......everyone a free agent to have his money where he likes without money stashed in Thai banks and pensions transferred.

[Genericnic]

20 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

It's still the case. Thai Immigration changed nothing on this option. 

Of course, if you are from UK, US or AU, your Embassy made things more difficult... but not TI.

Of course the changes at the embassies were the result of policy changes at TI. 

 

David

[elgenon]

Ubon Joe: if you have 800,000 in bank would you have to show you are living off that and it is being replenished?

On 1/6/2019 at 9:34 AM, ubonjoe said:

Thye amendment only mentions changes to income option. No changes for the money in the bank or the combination option.

 

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, ginjag said:

The 30k old age pension is approx paid now.  My pension was capped 11 years ago, because I live here ( UK wording, not normally reside in the UK) paid now 20k, this is with being honest as so many people do not tell the pension department.  Many persons will soon get a big shock as the department are now checking up on persons not informing,  MAYBE will owe the pensions back money already paid.......mega problem soon for some. Big brother is watching now.

If anyone got caught in that situation it's most likely they would get a letter stating your pension will be reduced by X until it's paid back, or, we will cease payments until X

Who can you call???

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, ginjag said:

The 30k old age pension is approx paid now.  My pension was capped 11 years ago, because I live here ( UK wording, not normally reside in the UK) paid now 20k, this is with being honest as so many people do not tell the pension department.  Many persons will soon get a big shock as the department are now checking up on persons not informing,  MAYBE will owe the pensions back money already paid.......mega problem soon for some. Big brother is watching now.

OK, so 20K x 12 = 240K + 560K "in the bank" money = 800K for your combo-application.

 

Another poster mentioned agents - likely why this change happened at all, and could be the only way to stay for some.  Reported as 15K in Pattaya - maybe less if you just need your foreign-income "verified" (according to some reports above in the thread - but is a wait-and-see for what unfolds in the next few months).

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

Of course the changes at the embassies were the result of policy changes at TI. 

Which policy change?

If you want talk about "verification of income", this has been discussed in other threads and this requirements towards embassies exist for many years, and maybe decades.

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

Which policy change?

If you want talk about "verification of income", this has been discussed in other threads and this requirements towards embassies exist for many years, and maybe decades.

Yes, and our letters and the disclaimers on them also existed all that time, during which "Verification" meant we swore to what was written (US/AU) or the embassy had looked at documentation (UK). 

 

TI had no problem with that system until last May 2018, when they broached the subject at a meeting with embassy officials.  At least, that is the story told by the US and UK authorities.  I wish we had a transcript of exactly what was said as I don't trust any of these players. 

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If anyone got caught in that situation it's most likely they would get a letter stating your pension will be reduced by X until it's paid back, or, we will cease payments until X

Who can you call???

If not normally residing and not informing, the best option is to lay low and hope your are not going to be checked.   In a way thank goodness I informed them.....Had I had known 11 years ago that living in Thailand I would be capped I would have gone to the Philippines where you get increment increases. Had I done this I would be 12k pounds to the good.  In fact really it is a big scam on the UK side to save paying out the pension you paid into for 50 years.

[Genericnic]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Which policy change?

If you want talk about "verification of income", this has been discussed in other threads and this requirements towards embassies exist for many years, and maybe decades.

What you are talking about - "verification of income" - is the legal requirement as stated in immigration rules. The policy of TI, for years, had been that the embassy letters were sufficient to meet the legal requirement. That policy changed last year. The language in the TI rules did not. As a result of the policy change, the embassies reacted accordingly.

 

David

 

[rumak]

48 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Keep in mind, they aren't taking your special case into consideration when they write up things like this. They write them up to "blanket cover" a host of different things. If they tried to include every possible "guaranteed income type" from every frikken country on the globe, just to try and include your special case, they'd be at it for years. Instead they just use the term "pension".

However it would appear that so long as your bank statements show regular deposits that average out to the required amount over the required period of time, you won't have to prove that those deposits are from any kind of "pension" or other guaranteed income source.
You would just need to show the bank statement(s) showing the deposits and the letter from the bank. The bank statements will only show that money was deposited from a (foreign) transfer. They don't show that "this deposit was from the UK Government Employee's pension plan and that deposit was from the ABS Fish Factory Company pension plan".

You are making entirely too much sense with this post .  Do you realize that if all the posters understood what you are saying that this post would self destruct in 5 seconds ?

Then again.... "where's your proof, dude !"    (please understand sarcasm not directed at you)

and so the reruns continue....

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

// The policy of TI, for years, had been that the embassy letters were sufficient to meet the legal requirement. That policy changed last year. 

Embassy Letters are still sufficient and provided by most embassies,

so clearly that policy did not change last year 

 

Edit: What may have change is that affidavits are no more accepted... maybe. 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Pattaya46

[onera1961]

12 minutes ago, ginjag said:

If not normally residing and not informing, the best option is to lay low and hope your are not going to be checked.

Just curious, How do they check where you're living?

Edited January 7, 2019 by onera1961

[gregsmithy]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I queried this when I first got my State pension paid into Kasikorn. They told me after quoting a letters/number sequence under the the transaction (Domestic Transfer) with this code number the Bank can tell it is an Int. Transfer I asked could they tell where it came from and they rang again to tell me it was my state pension.

Thanks for that its good to know someone has already asked the question through Kasikorn. Now all I need to do is get the local bank staff to understand what I want.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Derek B said:

On 1/6/2019 at 2:47 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

No change to the money in the bank

Where do you read that?

You can’t read something that doesn’t exist.

 

They have only added an option to prove monthly income. Nothing else has changed.

[onera1961]

5 minutes ago, gregsmithy said:

Thanks for that its good to know someone has already asked the question through Kasikorn. Now all I need to do is get the local bank staff to understand what I want.

I think not what you want but what TI will accept as a standard for all applicants. And as somebody posted, TI is working on that with banks. (may be completely false. who knows)

Edited January 7, 2019 by onera1961

[ginjag]

13 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Just curious, How do they check where you're living?

Address UK..Embassy Thai....bank withdrawals,  entries to the UK and how often return ticket dates.  pensions paid direct to Thai banks,  voting,   driving licence info, passport issued to where ??  etc....  address given and recorded at Immigration and info to Embassy of residence.   AND MORE.