CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

because I must return to Tokyo around the middle of April.  

That's always a great negotiating tool to tell someone like the RTP Immigration police that your circumstances in Japan are more important to you than your circumstances in Thailand.

[logres212]

14 hours ago, David Walden said:

THE COMBO METHOD...Is it any wonder that it presently maybe better to go back to your home country and apply for a Retirement Visa there (I do)...pretty easy considering all the stuffing around these post are indicating here in Thailand.  The present information indicates your Australian Aged Pension (AAP) or other countries similar will represent about Bt500.000 per year income, the other Bt300,000 you provide youself or beg, steal or borrow it and put it in a Thai bank a/c or in a bank in Australia if applying there.  Actually, this method is available in most countries and in Thailand.  So far there appears to be nobody following up on my posts about the combo method.  Despite the Senior Consul at the US Embassy suggesting on 103 fm that a big percentage of the applicant could arrange this method.   He clearly said 'Thai Immigration will preserve this method"  they promised and it appears is still available as it has for many years but few takers.

I too have been trying to get suggestions on how the combo method will operate under this new system. For example if 300,000 Baht is deposited in a Thai bank, do you only need to deposit 65000 Baht for eight months or around 41000 Baht for 12 months to meet the criteria? Can't see how this method will still be available. 

[Olmate]

7 minutes ago, logres212 said:

I too have been trying to get suggestions on how the combo method will operate under this new system. For example if 300,000 Baht is deposited in a Thai bank, do you only need to deposit 65000 Baht for eight months or around 41000 Baht for 12 months to meet the criteria? Can't see how this method will still be available. 

It seems only do able in home country? 

[ocddave]

4 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Embassies would be able to produce income letters stating anything you want them to say without any risk to them even now as they have diplomatic immunity.  It is clear that up to now that has been happening in many cases.  The Embassies can only do that if they if they do it in good faith or like a fidelity guarantee.  In the insurance business, you can go into some insurance companies company and buy a Fidelity Guarantee Policy (I used to sell them).  Often sold to employees who are employed but must provide a bond for the stock to sell they have in the back of their van maybe worth $100.000.  The insurance company indemnifies the employer if the employee shoots through with all the stock.  Going to an Embassy and applying for a letter of income is a bit like buying a fidelity guarantee from Insurance Company...1  You have to pay for it...2 The information in the letter has to be absolutely true.  Up till now, it is clear some of the information in the applications have been a figment of peoples imagination.  That seems to have stopped now?

I brought it up before, but if I understand correctly, the US Embassy (and US Consular's) falls under the US Secretary of State, which does offer Apostle/Authentication services. So I find it odd that they can't help verify Income Affidavits, especially when it pertains to Social Security payments, or other financial documents that have been notarized.

[JLCrab]

The Thai IMM folks and (in my case) the US Embassy/Bangkok have instituted new procedures on extension of stay via monthly income. If some want to argue/discuss/offer conjecture as to why they didn't do or could've done something else, that's fine but that ain't in this topic heading verbiage.

Edited January 10, 2019 by JLCrab

[Longcut]

4 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

In reference to Pib's post #368, since I had been proving my retirement income with my USAA bank statement accompanied by an embassy affidavit, I was able to get my extension each year.  I guessed wrong and assumed that my USAA bank statement alone would continue to provide adequate proof of steady retirement income.  Now, I have been contemplating sending $2,250 per month to my Bangkok Bank account through an ACH transfer but with BB's new rule requiring an International ACH form starting in June, that seems to be out.  Using TW presents a problem with getting transfers to post in our accounts as foreign transactions.  I don't really want to pay the SWIFT transfer charge each month, so I have considered just transferring the equivalent of 800,000 to Bangkok Bank and presenting that as proof of income when I go the Chaeng Wattana at the end of March but, of course it won't have been seasoned for three months by that time.  I can't extend for 60 days until it is seasoned because I must return to Tokyo around the middle of April.   Since there will be flexibility shown to applicants who will have not been able to achieve the twelve months of income transfers by the time that they apply, I wonder if similar flexibility will be shown to applicants who have not had time to achieve the three months' seasoning for their 800,000 in the bank? 

Transferwise deposits made to Bangkok Bank post as Foreign Transactions (FTT). Since that is the Bank Transferwise has accounts with. If you bank with another bank in Thailand, then it is routed through and sent by ACH from Bangkok bank and shows as a local transfer.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, logres212 said:

I too have been trying to get suggestions on how the combo method will operate under this new system. For example if 300,000 Baht is deposited in a Thai bank, do you only need to deposit 65000 Baht for eight months or around 41000 Baht for 12 months to meet the criteria? Can't see how this method will still be available. 

You show proof of your income the same way you would if you were using the income option and show the money in the bank for 3 months.

No changes from the way it was before other than how you prove your income.

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic posts meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies have been removed.

[Rambo]

I am due to apply for extension to stay based upon retirement in mid July 2019 (it will be my 15th consecutive application) using the monthly income method. Whilst some time away I wish to ensure compliance with the new directives. If I have correctly understood the directives I am required to demonstrate the transfer of not less than 65k baht per month for the last 12 months from overseas and paid into bank accounts in Thailand. I must therefore provide the information dating back to July 2018, albeit the new requirements came into effect on 1st January 2019.

 

I have two pensions both of which are transferred directly into Bangkok Bank but in different currencies,  and have been for a number of years. My UK State Pension is paid in Thai Baht into Bangkok Bank Savings Account every 4 weeks whilst my Company Pension is paid monthly in GBP into Foreign Currency Deposit Account. So could I ask :

1. Will I be able to continue transferring money into the two Bangkok  Bank Accounts in this manner?

2. I can download Statements from both accounts on a monthly basis using BKK internet banking. Will this be acceptable ? Would these Statements need to be signed by the Bank or myself ?

3 What do I need to give to Bangkok Bank to obtain Certification Letter ? Would a separate letter be needed for each Account ?

4. Does the Bank Certification Letter(s) have timing constraints given that I normally apply for extension to stay 2-3 weeks before the due date.

5 Given that not less than 65k must be transferred very month does this imply that failure to do so gives grounds for IO to reject an application ?

 

Would appreciate any guidance or clarification.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Rambo

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Longcut said:

Transferwise deposits made to Bangkok Bank post as Foreign Transactions (FTT). Since that is the Bank Transferwise has accounts with. If you bank with another bank in Thailand, then it is routed through and sent by ACH from Bangkok bank and shows as a local transfer.

Some clarification.  TW has "three" partner banks in Thailand they use: Bangkok Bank, Thai Military Bank (TMB), and Kaiskorn Bank.   TW has accounts at these three Thai banks and when completing the final leg of a TW transfer from the US, UK, whatever country....TW instructs a domestic transfer from one of three above mentioned banks to your Thai bank to complete the transfer.   Maybe calls those three banks TW's hub/intermediary banks to accomplish the final leg of the transfer to the dozens of other banks in Thailand (i.e., SCB, Krungsri, KrungThai, Thanachart, etc.

 

ACH is not used by TW for the final leg of the transfer within Thailand as ACH is the primarily funds transfer system used to transfer funds "within/between" US banks/financial companies.  ACH does have international transfer capability also but few US banks use IAT capability for their retail account like you and me would have; IAT is only used by some companies to pay for goods/services, payroll, etc., to foreign countries.   ACH is only used by TW for US folks who "fund" their transfer....many US folks use ACH to get their money "to" TW....fund their transfer....TW does not use ACH to send the money out of the US.

 

See below cut & paste from TV member's collinchaffers in a related thread confirming TW's partner banks in Thailand.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Pib

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

In reference to Pib's post #368, since I had been proving my retirement income with my USAA bank statement accompanied by an embassy affidavit, I was able to get my extension each year.  I guessed wrong and assumed that my USAA bank statement alone would continue to provide adequate proof of steady retirement income.  Now, I have been contemplating sending $2,250 per month to my Bangkok Bank account through an ACH transfer but with BB's new rule requiring an International ACH form starting in June, that seems to be out.  Using TW presents a problem with getting transfers to post in our accounts as foreign transactions.  I don't really want to pay the SWIFT transfer charge each month, so I have considered just transferring the equivalent of 800,000 to Bangkok Bank and presenting that as proof of income when I go the Chaeng Wattana at the end of March but, of course it won't have been seasoned for three months by that time.  I can't extend for 60 days until it is seasoned because I must return to Tokyo around the middle of April.   Since there will be flexibility shown to applicants who will have not been able to achieve the twelve months of income transfers by the time that they apply, I wonder if similar flexibility will be shown to applicants who have not had time to achieve the three months' seasoning for their 800,000 in the bank? 

Why didn't you get an income affidavit when you had the chance since the info put out the embassy when they announced they would not be doing them anymore stated they expected the money would have to be transferred to to a Thai bank.

Since you mentioned a 60 day extension I assume your wife is Thai. If correct you could put change the reason for your extension to one based upon marriage and only need to have 400k baht in the bank for 2 months.

[Pib]

5 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

In reference to Pib's post #368, since I had been proving my retirement income with my USAA bank statement accompanied by an embassy affidavit, I was able to get my extension each year.  I guessed wrong and assumed that my USAA bank statement alone would continue to provide adequate proof of steady retirement income.  Now, I have been contemplating sending $2,250 per month to my Bangkok Bank account through an ACH transfer but with BB's new rule requiring an International ACH form starting in June, that seems to be out.  Using TW presents a problem with getting transfers to post in our accounts as foreign transactions.  I don't really want to pay the SWIFT transfer charge each month, so I have considered just transferring the equivalent of 800,000 to Bangkok Bank and presenting that as proof of income when I go the Chaeng Wattana at the end of March but, of course it won't have been seasoned for three months by that time.  I can't extend for 60 days until it is seasoned because I must return to Tokyo around the middle of April.   Since there will be flexibility shown to applicants who will have not been able to achieve the twelve months of income transfers by the time that they apply, I wonder if similar flexibility will be shown to applicants who have not had time to achieve the three months' seasoning for their 800,000 in the bank? 

The international ACH requirement is effective 1 April 19; not 1 June.   Come 1 Apr Bangkok Bank will reject all transfers/payments (private or US govt) not in ACH "IAT" format.  

 

 

[Longcut]

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

Some clarification.  TW has "three" partner banks in Thailand they use: Bangkok Bank, Thai Military Bank (TMB), and Krungsri Bank.   TW has accounts at these three Thai banks and when completing the final leg of a TW transfer from the US, UK, whatever country....TW instructs a domestic transfer from one of three above mentioned banks to your Thai bank to complete the transfer.   Maybe calls those three banks TW's hub/intermediary banks to accomplish the final leg of the transfer to the dozens of other banks in Thailand (i.e., SCB, Krungsri, KrunThai, Thanachart, etc.

 

ACH is not used by TW for the final leg of the transfer within Thailand as ACH is the primarily funds transfer system used to transfer funds "within/between" US banks/financial companies.  ACH does have international transfer capability also but few US banks use IAT capability for their retail account like you and me would have; IAT is only used by some companies to pay for goods/services, payroll, etc., to foreign countries.   ACH is only used by TW for US folks who "fund" their transfer....many US folks use ACH to get their money "to" TW....fund their transfer....TW does not use ACH to send the money out of the US.

 

 

True, but I used the term ACH because I truly don't know what every other country uses. But, that is the terminology that Transferwise used with me. Maybe because I am from the U.S... What I was trying to get across hoping it would be of some value to someone, is the fact that Bangkok Bank shows foreign transactions on one's account. I understand T.W. does not send money out of the U.S. by ACH. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Longcut

[Pib]

1 minute ago, Longcut said:

True, but I used the term ACH because I truly don't know what every other country uses. But, that is the terminology that Transferwise used with me. Maybe because I am from the U.S... What I was trying to get across hoping it would be of some value to someone, is the fact that Bangkok Bank shows foreign transactions on one's account. 

Yeap.  From my personal experience of TW transfers to my Bangkok Bank account (5 TW transfers so far) TW has always used their Bangkok Bank account (per my TW PDF Receipt which shows the partner bank TW used) to transfer over to my Bangkok Bank account...and it has always been coded an FTT/International Transfer. 

 

Now for my one TW transfer to my Krungsri account TW used TMB to finalize the the transfer....it showed up as a domestic transfer.

 

Quite a few posts from folks with Kaiskorn accounts say sometimes their TW transfers shows up with international coding but usually not.   And one or two of those posts added the additional details that their TW receipt showed TW used TMB to effect the final leg of the transfer.

 

Now if one day if TW stops uses Bangkok Bank either permanently or intermittently as one of its partner banks  which means folks with Bangkok Bank accounts would be getting the final leg of the transfer from TMB or Kaiskorn, would the transfers then be coded FTT/International Transfer or just a domestic transfer over from another Thai bank?  I don't know as it could depend on either how the Thai receiving bank decides to code the transfer based on underlying coding.  Partner bank used and underlying transfer coding seem to be key (and a variable, a spin of the wheel).

 

 

 

 

 

[Mango Bob]

I just did a Transferwise transfer of $50 to test their system.  I think their system can work.   I transfer $50 from my US bank to Bangkok Bank.  It took one day to process.  Today I went and updated my passport.  It showed the international transfer with the Code FTT.   I also printed a PDF copy of the receipt (only the first page) as proof of the money being sent from overseas.  The Code TFF is the same code I get when I do an ACH transaction from my bank to Bangkok Bank, NYC.

[Longcut]

37 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeap.  From my personal experience of TW transfers to my Bangkok Bank account (5 TW transfers so far) TW has always used their Bangkok Bank account (per my TW PDF Receipt which shows the partner bank TW used) to transfer over to my Bangkok Bank account...and it has always been coded an FTT/International Transfer. 

 

Now for my one TW transfer to my Krungsri account TW used TMB to finalize the the transfer....it showed up as a domestic transfer.

 

Quite a few posts from folks with Kaiskorn accounts say sometimes their TW transfers shows up with international coding but usually not.   And one or two of those posts added the additional details that their TW receipt showed TW used TMB to effect the final leg of the transfer.

 

Now if one day if TW stops uses Bangkok Bank either permanently or intermittently as one of its partner banks  which means folks with Bangkok Bank accounts would be getting the final leg of the transfer from TMB or Kaiskorn, would the transfers then be coded FTT/International Transfer or just a domestic transfer over from another Thai bank?  I don't know as it could depend on either how the Thai receiving bank decides to code the transfer based on underlying coding.  Partner bank used and underlying transfer coding seem to be key (and a variable, a spin of the wheel).

 

 

 

 

 

I have wondered the same thing.  Being as Bangkok Bank is a commercial bank, I am hoping it stays that way. But, if they "Transferwise" do decide to switch Thai banks I am hoping they give enough notice to us. 

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, Longcut said:

52 minutes ago, Pib said:

Now if one day if TW stops uses Bangkok Bank either permanently or intermittently as one of its partner banks  which means folks with Bangkok Bank accounts would be getting the final leg of the transfer from TMB or Kaiskorn, would the transfers then be coded FTT/International Transfer or just a domestic transfer over from another Thai bank?  I don't know as it could depend on either how the Thai receiving bank decides to code the transfer based on underlying coding.  Partner bank used and underlying transfer coding seem to be key (and a variable, a spin of the wheel).

I have wondered the same thing.  Being as Bangkok Bank is a commercial bank, I am hoping it stays that way. But, if they "Transferwise" do decide to switch Thai banks I am hoping they give enough notice to us. 

If using this service, best to send early in the month, remember to check every month that you got the international-code with the transfer, and have a "spare" monthly-minimum amount to send the same month, in case you don't get the correct code. 

[scubascuba3]

If using this service, best to send early in the month, remember to check every month that you got the international-code with the transfer, and have a "spare" monthly-minimum amount to send the same month, in case you don't get the correct code. 

or just keep a balance equal to the transfers that don't indicate Intl just in case

 

[keemapoot]

15 minutes ago, Longcut said:

I have wondered the same thing.  Being as Bangkok Bank is a commercial bank, I am hoping it stays that way. But, if they "Transferwise" do decide to switch Thai banks I am hoping they give enough notice to us. 

This is a very real concern as well illustrated by member Pib. With BKK Bank it currently works, but banks do change correspondent relationships all the time (except not with international normal correspondents for SWIFT, etc... Normally, they do give advance notice, but anyone thinking this is a long-term strategy should think twice. 

 

For example, even on the debit cards, BKK bank used to use VISA, then switched to UnionPay, and now is with Mastercard. 

[ubonjoe]

Please move the off topic discussion about transferwise transfers to this 18 page topic that is almost entirely about it.

 

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, Longcut said:

I have wondered the same thing.  Being as Bangkok Bank is a commercial bank, I am hoping it stays that way. But, if they "Transferwise" do decide to switch Thai banks I am hoping they give enough notice to us. 

Why would TW give us any notice they are changing/adjusting the partner banks they use in Thailand.  TW's job is to get the money transferred/deposited to your bank account some where in the world (like Thailand) at a set/agreed to fee, exchange rate, and amount. 

 

Anything  beyond that like coding, description would be of no concern to them.  And actually, I expect the coding/description that our Thai banks use is probably beyond TW's control.  

 

It kinda like me using various US credit cards here in Thailand to purchase items.  I could buy two cases of Leo beer at Lotus....pay for one case with my credit card from card company X and the other case from card company Y and when those transactions hit by card accounts they are described/codes somewhere differently because each of the card companies uses a different accounting system, codes, descriptions, etc.   Ditto for using different debit cards to do ATM withdrawals.

 

People just need to consider their monthly transfer method and associated transfer description/coding receive in using that method if using the "monthly income method" for retirement/marriage extension renewal based on the TI new policy where the new policy specifies the funds must come from outside Thailand/be a foreign transfer of funds.  Maybe have a Plan B to transfer money over monthly if Plan A stops working properly/doesn't provide the required description/coding.

 

 

   

Edited January 10, 2019 by Pib

[OJAS]

49 minutes ago, Longcut said:

I have wondered the same thing.  Being as Bangkok Bank is a commercial bank, I am hoping it stays that way. But, if they "Transferwise" do decide to switch Thai banks I am hoping they give enough notice to us. 

I wouldn't bank on it. TransferWise processed 1 of my transfers some ago through TMB rather than BKKB without any advance warning. This was subsequently coded SMT in my passbook - which, as you will see from the response to this recent thread I initiated in the Banking forum, does not have any whiff of an "international transfer" flavour about it:-

 

 

Since then all my TransferWise transfers have been processed through BKKB and, hence, coded FTT in my passbook. But in the light of advice provided earlier in this thread by both @Pib and @JackThompson I am not prepared to risk riding my luck with them any longer. I have therefore just instigated a dummy £120 transfer to see whether I can still use the BKKB London branch facility (which, unlike its New York counterpart, does not appear to be going away any time soon) for the first time in nearly 18 months. If this is not possible, then SWIFT would appear to be my only other safe option since re-registering for the BKKB London branch facility seems to involve an extremely tediously bureauratic process, which, I have concluded, probably wouldn't be worth the effort in my case.

 

In any event, the difference between TransferWise and SWIFT would likely, for me, amount to around 2% on the basis of some rough calculations I have just undertaken (I was expecting this to be somewhat larger). But, of course, this all depends on individual circumstances, particularly as regards bank charges and amounts being transferred.

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by OJAS

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

or just keep a balance equal to the transfers that don't indicate Intl just in case

Do you mean for the combo-method?  I think that will still require the "income" part of the combo be monthly transfers, and the "non-international" transfer would not count / would not show up on the bank's official "foreign-transfer" letter for immigration.

 

If doing combo, one's monthly transfers could be less than the minimum-required, depending on how much "Seasoned in a Thai bank" money you have to use - but I think they will still want to see transfers every month without fail, or will disqualify the income-portion of the combo.

[scubascuba3]

Do you mean for the combo-method?  I think that will still require the "income" part of the combo be monthly transfers, and the "non-international" transfer would not count / would not show up on the bank's official "foreign-transfer" letter for immigration.
 
If doing combo, one's monthly transfers could be less than the minimum-required, depending on how much "Seasoned in a Thai bank" money you have to use - but I think they will still want to see transfers every month without fail, or will disqualify the income-portion of the combo.

Problem with that is you could repeat a month payment hoping its classed as Intl, if its not repeat again? gets ridiculous

[KhunFred]

On 1/7/2019 at 6:21 PM, DrJack54 said:

What?? Of course it has. There are 60 pages on that point and many threads. My statement is that IF I was using income method I would not be happy with the changes. YES the ones now in place. Geezus.

I think the confusion comes over what the various income letters are CALLED. For Americans and some others, it is a statutory declaration. I don't know if the UK Embassy calls it that, but they definitely had been issuing some kind of "income letter" up until they stopped. America followed the lead of the UK, for once. Apparently ALL the embassies were not comfortable issuing letters without concrete proof. My question is: WHY would an income tax receipt not suffice to prove income? it is about as clear as any income letter.

[bloody tiger]

Does anyone have a link to the actual original Thai version of this new order?

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Do you mean for the combo-method?  I think that will still require the "income" part of the combo be monthly transfers, and the "non-international" transfer would not count / would not show up on the bank's official "foreign-transfer" letter for immigration.
 
If doing combo, one's monthly transfers could be less than the minimum-required, depending on how much "Seasoned in a Thai bank" money you have to use - but I think they will still want to see transfers every month without fail, or will disqualify the income-portion of the combo.

Problem with that is you could repeat a month payment hoping its classed as Intl, if its not repeat again? gets ridiculous

The 2nd time, you'd use something reliable - like SWIFT.  Personally, I would not mess around with TW, unless some sort of clarity from them on knowing how a transfer will be classified can be reliably determined.

[trd]

Wow this is so confusing. I have a simple question. Okay so if I can show 12 previous consecutive payments of 30,000 baht a month going into my account, when I next come to renew my retirement do I then only have to have a total sum of 800,000 - 360,000 (12x30k) = 440,000 baht showing in the account three months prior to renewal date?

[scubascuba3]

Wow this is so confusing. I have a simple question. Okay so if I can show 12 previous consecutive payments of 30,000 baht a month going into my account, when I next come to renew my retirement do I then only have to have a total sum of 800,000 - 360,000 (12x30k) = 440,000 baht showing in the account three months prior to renewal date?

The important word missing is "international" consecutive payments

[farangx]

31 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Problem with that is you could repeat a month payment hoping its classed as Intl, if its not repeat again? gets ridiculous

That's right, keep practicing until you hit the target. Imagine after just 4 months you have enough to last for the whole year. You know it, I know it but the bank doesn't know it. So you do the same again for the next 4 months, viola enough for 2 extensions.  You really make me looked bad man!