CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[GregKeo]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

The answer is unknown at this point. But as the existing ‘rules’ stand a minimum of 65K every month is required, and there is no mention allowing for an average. 

 

IMO they will insist on 12 transfers, and we will have to wait and see if they accept an average. I can’t see them accepting the example you give.

Agree, however there isn't a stipulation to meet the minimum monthly transfer of 65K via a single transaction. So they may insist on a minimum 12 international transfers (one for each month), but it could equally be more than one transfer per month or more - provided that the sum of transfer in a month equals or exceeds the magic 65K baht.

 

Question ..... is month defined as calendar or 28 days? I suspect the I/O will want calendar months when regular revenue streams such as pensions are often disbursed in 14 or 28 day increments.

 

Apologies if the question question has previously been raised ......

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, GregKeo said:

// So they may insist on a minimum 12 international transfers (one for each month), but it could equally be more than one transfer per month or more - provided that the sum of transfer in a month equals or exceeds the magic 65K baht.

IMHO it would become too complicated.

Checking that on 1 year there are 12 inputs of minimum 65k is rather fast,

but if officers must make calculations to check that it's ok, I bet many won't want... 

 

Better to regroup your money in a home account and make one only monthly transfer.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Pattaya46

[doctormann]

This may have been answered before but ...

 

If we assume, that for the income method, we are going to have to make monthly deposits of at least 40k/65k, do we need to get our bank books updated every month?  I Bank with TMB and have been making monthly deposits for many years but I only update the bank book very occasionally as there is no actual TMB branch anywhere near where i live, so doing monthly updates would Be a PITA.  The book would, in any case, fill up rather rapidly if it were to show every ATM withdrawal (I use the 65+k to live on so make ATM withdrawals at least twice a week),

 

Currently, when I update the book it generally shows a few of the latest ATM transactions but only shows a consolidated figure for the deposits.  I wonder if this will be a problem.  I can, of course, obtain on-line statements that show ALL transactions.  I would hope that TI would be happy with that - the PDF printouts could be signed by a bank official, if necessary - but you never know until you try!

 

All foreign deposits from Barclays UK, via SWIFT, show the code EXIM on the TMB on-line statements.  This seems to mean that the payment comes via the Thailand EXport/IMport bank so i expect that TI should be happy with that.

[gk10002000]

On 1/7/2019 at 6:07 PM, onera1961 said:

How else they could have accommodated people who don't have access to embassy letters? When the embassies could not accommodate income letter, how else TI could have  accommodated it is beyond me. Regular transfer is the only solution I can think of. They gave the option to embassies first. And all embassies were OK to accommodate "income letter" as per TI's request except the four. 

Regular transfers do NOT prove income, and certainly do not prove sustainable income which is the whole point of retirement extension via INCOME!  A few months of transfers is nothing and could come from somebody just spending down a small lump sum, borrowing money, selling off assets, etc.  None of those meet the intent of sustainable income such as a pension or reasonably valued stock and fund dividends, bond interest, etc.

[Rugon]

On 1/7/2019 at 4:32 PM, khwaibah said:

For confirmation and assistance contact your local agent.????

 

They are immigration, I'm sure they will be able to offer some gullible old newcomers an offer they can't refuse ????

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Can anyone share first-hand experiences getting the certified documentation from Bangkok Bank, presumably "day-of", at their branch within the Chaeng Watthana complex?

 

In the past, I think one could get the necessary documents the day before the application? Does this remain an option, or must this be done the day of the application?

 

Is there a long wait - realizing that this can be variable?

 

Could you, for example, get a queue ticket first then go down to the branch, get the documents, copy them and get back up to the appropriate desk?

 

Are staff generally competent and able to satisfy the necessary requests?

 

I assume copies need to made of these documents after obtaining them?

I do my annual retirement extension of stay at Chaeng Wattana.  For the last 8 years or so I have used the Bt800K deposit method.   I have used accounts at both the Bangkok Bank branch and Krungsri Bank branch in the CW complex as I have moved my Bt800K between those two banks/branches over the years depending on the best deal for savings account.  First 5 of those 8 years I was at the Bangkok Bank branch using fixed savings accounts and the last 3 at the Krungsri Bank branch using their Mee Tai Dai savings account.   Bangkok Bank charges Bt200 for the letter but I think the charge Bt100 now....and Krungsri charges Bt100.

 

Regardless of which bank I was using I would be standing at their doors at 8:30am....usually a half dozen or so other folks standing there also. Doors open, I go in, get to talk to a teller within a few minutes, initiated the bank letter process, they tell me to come back in approx 30 minutes to pick it up.  I then go up to the immigration office to get my queue ticket....most of the l....o.....n.....g line standing in front of the immigration doors which opens at 8:30am also has now cleared out.   I get my queue ticket pretty quickly....go back down to the branch to pick up the completed bank letter....then go back up to immigration at around 9am to wait for my queue ticket to be called.   And for each of those years I'm done with immigration....got my approval to stay another year....out the door going home between approx 10am and always before their noon lunch hour.  For my latest extension I was done, going home a few minutes before 10am.

[gk10002000]

On 1/7/2019 at 6:38 PM, SheungWan said:

Then you don't comply.

 

On 1/7/2019 at 6:25 PM, chingmai331 said:

I went to CM Immig with updated Bangkok Bank savings book showing 800K+, plus bank letter (50baht).  Immig Officer required that i show, or at least explain, where did this money come from. 

My impression is that Immig wants certainty that the money originated outside of Thailand.  So carrying cash in a suitcase from OZ, or USA, and then dumping that into a Thai bank might not be the best idea.

Kind of reminds me of stories here in the USA where people buying a house, put so much down payment, go to the final bank closing, find out they need a bit more money, come back with some cash and the bank objects, demanding to show proof that is your money, not borrowed money that you may now owe to other lenders besides the bank.. things like that

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Regular transfers do NOT prove income,

Well, transfers made 12-1 months previous certainly do not prove income for the next 12 months that the extension will be valid for. Having funds for that would surely need to be a lump sum, or checked for each month as they come in! But let us be thankful for TI offering some variety of ways to get extensions.

[Nelska]

Someone would have a feedback on the possibility of switching from a visa OA "retired" to a "Thai wife" visa? On another forum, I read that similar requests would seem to have been rejected in Chiang Mai immigration office. On the other hand, the reverse switch would be quite possible and even encouraged by immigration.
If you could successfully switch to a Thai wife visa, sharing your feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Nelska

[Pib]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

Yeap.  For the current Bt800K/Bt400K deposit method the Thai bank letter is very basic/simple....just confirms you do have an account with them on date of issue, how much money you currently have in the bank, your name/address/etc.  It does not talk if the money has been seasoned for X-months.   And then a copy of your Thai passbook and/or bank statement is attached to that letter which has also just been updated at the bank. That passbook/statement is what the immigration officer looks at closely to ensure the required amount for the required seasoning period has been complied with.  The passbook/statement is really the key document....the bank letter is really just confirming you indeed have a bank account which provides strong proof the passbook is not fake.

 

I expect when using the income method to prove monthly international transfers of X-amount that the passbook/statement which will also show/confirm "international transfer coding/description" will be the key document the immigration officer reviews.  

 

12 hours ago, farangx said:

The bank letter is suppose to remove the financial guesswork for TI.  The bank is the only one that knows your account(s) activities (seasoning, transfers from overseas etc) and certifies that if they meet TI's requirements, they can issue a statement to that effect which comes in the form of a bank letter.  It is this letter that carries the weight and it is a powerful document.  You might want to think of this like an LC (Letter of Credit).  The bank book is more like a journal, likely for IO's amusement. ????

farangx,

 

I don't know if you use the bank letter method, but I certainly do.  Have used it for the last 8 years or so at Chaeng Watttana (Bangkok) immigration to get my annual extension of stay using the Bt800K deposit method.   

 

 Once you got your short & sweet bank letter which as I mentioned above is "very basic/simple" and does not provide any information about account activity other than balance on the day of the letter issue, does not provide deposits/withdrawals info, does not provide any seasoning period info, etc., you hand that bank letter with copy of your passbook along with the actual passbook to the immigration office.

 

 Each and every year the various immigration officers did not look at the bank letter for more than 2 seconds...."they just glanced at it to confirm you have the bank letter."   They then start looking at the copy of the passbook "and the actual passbook" to confirm the passbook and copy you provided match.  Well, they did glance back at the bank letter for another second to confirm the current day balance reflected on the letter matched the current day balance on the passbook.  Then the officer spent 30 seconds to a minute reviewing the passbook entries to ensure none of the various transaction entries show that I dropped below Bt800K during the 3 month minimum seasoning period.   Then sometimes they may annotate/circle some entries on the passbook copy.   

 

 But my point is they spent 90% of their time reviewing the passbook.....they only briefly glanced at the bank letter which only provides very basic account info.

 

 I expect for the "monthly income" method to confirm the overseas deposits/transfers are arriving monthly and in the required amount the passbook/statement will be the key document reviewed....and the bank letter will continue to be very simple/short...only providing the basic account info I mentioned before.  

 

  Whether some banks may start providing a more detailed letter for the income method to translate passbook transaction codes/confirm monthly overseas transfers I can't say.   

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Pib

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Thanks, and this is my approach as well given the current situation. I had used the Embassy Affidavit in the past.

 

 

I just started my monthly transfers - but also plan to have 800,000 on hand at least 3 months ahead of my annual extension of stay/retirement on/about 28 Sep 2019 - from a financial insitution in the U.S. to my Bangkok Bank account.

I received an SMS from Bangkok Bank: (Day, date, time but no year shown)

 

From BANGKOKBANK 

 FULL NAME has transferred THB7x,xxx.yy (USD2,[email protected] - THB200) from abroad into NNNXXXNNN)

 

 

And online it shows as:

08 Jan 2019 10:29  International Transfer        7x,xxx.yy    balance    User

 

"User" is under the "channel" heading, like ATM and CDM.

 

I haven't updated my passbook yet, but the BBL code for in-bound foreign transfers has been "FTT" for my annual, one-time transfers in the past.

 

 

I plan to present the evidence (copies, bank letter(s), SMSes, etc) of my Jan - Sep transfers, and of my 800,000 balance (3 months), just to be safe. I'll continue the monthly deposits on/about the 10th of each month going forward, and make sure I have the 800,000 balance.
 

I may be wrong about this but my IO has never expressed an interest in where my 800,000 baht comes from.  I'm not sure for the money-in-the-bank (for a 3-month seasoning period) method that it has to originate overseas or more accurately that they check this. To be clear, mine does originate overseas but I don't believe I've ever shown the IO anything that shows this.

In any case, it appears you're taking a belt and suspenders approach to getting your extension (by meeting the requirements of both methods).  As someone else on here has said the money-in-the-bank method is really the gold standard for getting extensions of stay in that it's the easiest one to show and everyone (applicants and IOs) has experience with doing it.  Additionally, nothing about that method is changing this year.

You may find that when you go into the IO and the officer sees that you meet the requirements for the money-in-the-bank method (800,000 for three months) he may insist on using that method because it's easiest for him to verify.  Much easier to verify the balance doesn't drop below 800,000 for three months than that all the monthly international transfers have occurred as needed over the last year.  Also, this year, 2019, most applicants aren't going to be able to technically meet the 12 months of deposits and are going to have to be granted some leeway in meeting the requirement with fewer months than are actually required.  Given that if you do what you plan as stated above I would think the IO would go with the method that you completely satisfy rather than using the new monthly transfer method for which you would have to be granted relief for not having the full 12 months.

 

If it were me, I think I would go with the 800,000 in the bank method in 2019 and if you wanted to in 2020 when all the dust has settled on the new method give it a try then.  All the kinks should be worked out by then.  The format of the bank letter that immigration wants to see.  The understanding of which transaction codes are acceptable for proving an international transfer.  Whether there's any flexibility for missing a single monthly transfer, whether it has to be over 65,000 baht per month or whether it's acceptable for only the average to be over 65,000 baht per month.  Lots of unanswered questions that should have answers by the time 2020 rolls around.

 

In any case, nothing wrong with what you're planning to do, but maybe a bit of unnecessary work mucking about with the monthly transfers.  I believe everyone is expecting there to be no changes in the tried-and-true money-in-the-bank method, at least I am ????

[Confuscious]

As I read trough the 51 pages on this topic, I can not find anybody to ask about the tax on the monthly income.

Will Immigration require with the new rules that the person show that he/she is paying income taxes on the monthly 40,000/65,000 Baht transfers or not?

If they want to see that income taxes have been paid in Thailand on the monthly transfers, it will be big chunk of the income (a list with the income taxes in Thailand was published in ThaiVisa in the thread about minimum wages for foreign teachers).

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

Will Immigration require with the new rules that the person show that he/she is paying income taxes on the monthly 40,000/65,000 Baht transfers or not?

That is in the clause for extensions of stay based upon marriage. The tax payment is the proof of income needed if the 40k baht income is from working here.

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

As I read trough the 51 pages on this topic, I can not find anybody to ask about the tax on the monthly income.

Will Immigration require with the new rules that the person show that he/she is paying income taxes on the monthly 40,000/65,000 Baht transfers or not?



 

No...

[mtls2005]

13 minutes ago, skatewash said:

In any case, nothing wrong with what you're planning to do, but maybe a bit of unnecessary work mucking about with the monthly transfers.

 

Thanks.

 

The monthly transfers are quite simple, take less than 48 hours (I called in a transfer Friday evening, funds posted Tuesday AM), are free (except for the 200 baht 'arrival' fee). I could do one lump sum and just pay one, single 500 baht fee. So I am paying a bit of a premium, ~ 1,900 baht, just to ensure the monthly transfer method, and only in case they put some new "rules" in place re: the 800,000 "method".

[mogandave]

So what is it that embassies that still issue affirmation certs do differently to the embassies that have stopped . Seems to me that if some can do it then why not all ?

Some embassies may actually be set up to actually confirm income.

Some embassies may just have less integrity than others.

[scubascuba3]

This may have been answered before but ...
 
If we assume, that for the income method, we are going to have to make monthly deposits of at least 40k/65k, do we need to get our bank books updated every month?  I Bank with TMB and have been making monthly deposits for many years but I only update the bank book very occasionally as there is no actual TMB branch anywhere near where i live, so doing monthly updates would Be a PITA.  The book would, in any case, fill up rather rapidly if it were to show every ATM withdrawal (I use the 65+k to live on so make ATM withdrawals at least twice a week),
 
Currently, when I update the book it generally shows a few of the latest ATM transactions but only shows a consolidated figure for the deposits.  I wonder if this will be a problem.  I can, of course, obtain on-line statements that show ALL transactions.  I would hope that TI would be happy with that - the PDF printouts could be signed by a bank official, if necessary - but you never know until you try!
 
All foreign deposits from Barclays UK, via SWIFT, show the code EXIM on the TMB on-line statements.  This seems to mean that the payment comes via the Thailand EXport/IMport bank so i expect that TI should be happy with that.

Good question, applies to everyone using the monthly income method, maybe one of the experts can answer@ubonjoe

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

Some embassies may actually be set up to actually confirm income.

Some embassies may just have less integrity than others.

 

None have that ability & all adhere to the appropriate intl convention.

[mtls2005]

48 minutes ago, Pib said:

Regardless of which bank I was using I would be standing at their doors at 8:30am....usually a half dozen or so other folks standing there also. Doors open, I go in, get to talk to a teller within a few minutes, initiated the bank letter process, they tell me to come back in approx 30 minutes to pick it up.  I then go up to the immigration office to get my queue ticket

 

Thanks, especially for the strategy.

 

I also get my annual multiple re-entry permit - this takes longer than the extension of stay, usually, and I often have to do a 90-day report, all on the same day.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

This may have been answered before but ...

 

If we assume, that for the income method, we are going to have to make monthly deposits of at least 40k/65k, do we need to get our bank books updated every month?  I Bank with TMB and have been making monthly deposits for many years but I only update the bank book very occasionally as there is no actual TMB branch anywhere near where i live, so doing monthly updates would Be a PITA.  The book would, in any case, fill up rather rapidly if it were to show every ATM withdrawal (I use the 65+k to live on so make ATM withdrawals at least twice a week),

 

Currently, when I update the book it generally shows a few of the latest ATM transactions but only shows a consolidated figure for the deposits.  I wonder if this will be a problem.  I can, of course, obtain on-line statements that show ALL transactions.  I would hope that TI would be happy with that - the PDF printouts could be signed by a bank official, if necessary - but you never know until you try!

 

All foreign deposits from Barclays UK, via SWIFT, show the code EXIM on the TMB on-line statements.  This seems to mean that the payment comes via the Thailand EXport/IMport bank so i expect that TI should be happy with that.

 

If it was me, until we find out how picky immigration is going to be on supporting docs to prove/document the monthly overseas deposit, and what new bank letter(s) Thai banks "might" provide to support the monthly income method, I would definitely update my passbook monthly to ensure the monthly deposit gets printed in your passbook.   The passbook entry is going to be the gold standard.

 

 

 

[billd766]

13 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Can’t you just have them all direct deposit to a domestic account and just make one transfer a month?

 

It doesn't quite work out that easily as my state pension is paid every 28 days and with the exception of February the payment date moves forwards 2 or 3 days a month and then one month I get paid twice.

 

The military and company pensions are 5 days apart which isn't too much of a problem unless of course the date is on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday when of course Thai banks don't operate.

 

They get paid into my TransferWise borderless account in the UK and then I transfer them to my KBank account which comes via the BBK bank and then to KBank.

[doctormann]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

If it was me, until we find out how picky immigration is going to be on supporting docs to prove/document the monthly overseas deposit, and what new bank letter(s) Thai banks "might" provide to support the monthly income method, I would definitely update my passbook monthly to ensure the monthly deposit gets printed in your passbook.   The passbook entry is going to be the gold standard.

 

 

 

Yes, I was thinking that too.  Complete pain but if it as to be done then it has to be done!

[billd766]

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

 

It is no problem for you to switch the reason for your extension from retirement to spouse when you next renew. 

 

If your income is below the 65K and you want to stay on a retirement extension you could combine your income with cash in the bank as long as it totals 800K. e.g income of 50K x 12 = 600K could be combined with 200K in the bank.

 

Personally, I believe it is better to apply as a spouse even though it requires a bit more paperwork.

That is what I will be doing this year too.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, GregKeo said:

Agree, however there isn't a stipulation to meet the minimum monthly transfer of 65K via a single transaction. So they may insist on a minimum 12 international transfers (one for each month), but it could equally be more than one transfer per month or more - provided that the sum of transfer in a month equals or exceeds the magic 65K baht.

 

Question ..... is month defined as calendar or 28 days? I suspect the I/O will want calendar months when regular revenue streams such as pensions are often disbursed in 14 or 28 day increments.

 

Apologies if the question question has previously been raised ......

My military and my company pensions are paid on the same days every calandar month. However my State pension is paid every 28 days which the UK Pensions department  deem one month. 

 

I can't figure it out either.

[steve73]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

I may be wrong about this but my IO has never expressed an interest in where my 800,000 baht comes from.  I'm not sure for the money-in-the-bank (for a 3-month seasoning period) method that it has to originate overseas or more accurately that they check this. To be clear, mine does originate overseas but I don't believe I've ever shown the IO anything that shows this.

 

snip..

At my extension last year, I had made one Transferwise payment into my Kbank account (shown as Dummy), and one other local transfer (of 10k bt, for some Bitcoin) during the seasoning period.   I had a 3-month statement from the bank (100bt) since I never bother to update my bankbook.  The I/O asked me what these incoming payments were for, and accepted my answer of incoming funds via an exchange service.

 

This year, I topped up my account to well over the 800k before the seasoning period started, and (hopefully) will not need any further payments in until I get my extension next month, although I'm fully expecting the I/O to ask why I have no incoming funds showing.

[freedomnow]

Looks like Transferwise will be getting a good boost in business if TW is accepted.

Paypal was always a PITA for rates and speed of deposit..5 days plus when it collided with national holidays.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Rugon said:

They are immigration, I'm sure they will be able to offer some gullible old newcomers an offer they can't refuse ????

Up here in Khampaeng Phet I asked in November and the IO said that there were none. I will ask again next month and see if she can throw some further light on the unmentionable subject.

[roger101]

29 minutes ago, billd766 said:

My military and my company pensions are paid on the same days every calandar month. However my State pension is paid every 28 days which the UK Pensions department  deem one month. 

 

I can't figure it out either.

Thats because your Old Age Pension is a weekly amount that is paid every 4 weeks not a monthly payment.

[farangx]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In my visit to my SCB branch the statement was from 01/01/2018 to 24/04/2018 so covering more than 3 months, (my extension application was submitted on 25/04/2018). I think it likely that your statement was not for 1 month, as that is not the period that immigration want, but something over 3 months.

 

My very bad typo mistake, it is not the previous month's but months'.  The statement showed transactions for more than 6 months in my case.

 

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The SCB letter I received stated that the account belonged to me and that on 25/04/2018 my current balance was ฿406,303.44 nowhere on the letter did it talk about the historical balance, that is what the balance column on the statement is for (mine showed that the balance varied from the above figure to ฿681,373.44)

I don't read Thai and was told what it was by the bank probably because the officer was following my lead.  I did not tell the officer how to word the letter, they knew what I was after.  I assumed you right and that our letters are similar, worded in a format accepted by immigration. 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by farangx

[racyrick]

Has anyone used XE.com for international transfers to Thailand from the US?

 

If so, please explain the process they use and your thoughts?

 

Thanks