Health insurance premium increased by 60% in 2 years!

[baansgr]

Take a look at Axa...varying levels of cover, can mix "n" match. 

#20 not sure if Axa is under Thai

Edited January 23, 2019 by baansgr

[how241]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, for inpatient plus outpatient at your age that premium sounds usual.

But why on earth get outpatient cover,? It increases the premium substantially and outpt care here is pretty affordable.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thank you for help.  Excellent answer, as always.  I see on the pamphlet they gave me that there is a 20%  discount if I drop the outpatient care.  I will do that. Thanks again !!  They are giving me 500,000 for Person Accident Benefit.  There is a option to raise up that benefit for 145 baht/100,000 baht.  It sounds cheap to raise it up to 2-3 million.  Do you think it is worthwhile. That covers loss of life, eyes, hands , and permanent disability caused by ACCIDENT.  Do you think for 20,000 baht extra premium, it is better to get the 50 million vs. the 20 million ?? Thank you for your help.

Edited January 23, 2019 by how241

[chicowoodduck]

Just part of growing old.....it will never get better or cheaper getting old....just suck it up and hope for the best....lol...????

[simon43]

I received an email from Cigna about their 'Close Care' policy.  This is a lowish premium policy which is valid in your home country, your country of residence, and with reduced cover for up to 45 days in other countries.

 

The annual cover is $250,000 USD (7.9 million baht) per year. While this is perhaps on the lower side of international expat cover, the cover is still fairly comprehensive, with no important exclusions.

 

I asked Cigna about estimates of premium increases over the next few years as I enter the next age band.  I'll quote their reply in full, because it provides useful estimates and confirmation that my premiums will not individually increase.  (These prices are based on my current age (59 years, 9 months, and no medical pre-existing conditions, and with a 500 GBP annual deductable/excess. The three columns are for age 59, 60 and 64.

 

"....

We stop the age related increases at 82.

 

I’ve added some years on to your age below to give you an idea.

 

		59	60	64
Intl Medical Insurance		£140.09	£149.10	£183.84
Intl Outpatient & Wellbeing		£103.06	£107.84	£130.10
Intl Dental		£23.34	£23.43	£23.79
Total per Month		£266.49	£280.37	£337.73

 

You can upgrade at any time subject to medical underwriting. You will pay the same price as some else who is British, living in Thailand and of the same age. Our rates are fixed and we never increase them based on claims.

 

Yes you can pay monthly.

 

 

-------------------

 

So at age 64, and assuming one only has inpatient cover, the monthly premium equates to about 7,600 Thai baht.

[dinga]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

I received an email from Cigna about their 'Close Care' policy.  This is a lowish premium policy which is valid in your home country, your country of residence, and with reduced cover for up to 45 days in other countries.

 

The annual cover is $250,000 USD (7.9 million baht) per year. While this is perhaps on the lower side of international expat cover, the cover is still fairly comprehensive, with no important exclusions.

 

I asked Cigna about estimates of premium increases over the next few years as I enter the next age band.  I'll quote their reply in full, because it provides useful estimates and confirmation that my premiums will not individually increase.  (These prices are based on my current age (59 years, 9 months, and no medical pre-existing conditions, and with a 500 GBP annual deductable/excess. The three columns are for age 59, 60 and 64.

 

"....

We stop the age related increases at 82.

 

I’ve added some years on to your age below to give you an idea.

 

		59	60	64
Intl Medical Insurance		£140.09	£149.10	£183.84
Intl Outpatient & Wellbeing		£103.06	£107.84	£130.10
Intl Dental		£23.34	£23.43	£23.79
Total per Month		£266.49	£280.37	£337.73

 

You can upgrade at any time subject to medical underwriting. You will pay the same price as some else who is British, living in Thailand and of the same age. Our rates are fixed and we never increase them based on claims.

 

Yes you can pay monthly.

 

 

-------------------

 

So at age 64, and assuming one only has inpatient cover, the monthly premium equates to about 7,600 Thai baht.

Looks to me like these are MONTHLY costs (Summary comparison chart from AA Brokers indicates Cigna Close Care is 79,755 baht per YEAR at 60-64 years).

 

Please re-confirm

 

OOPS -  sorry I'm a dill 9you already said these are monthly premiums!

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by dinga
OOPS - didn't read carefully enough!

[stevenl]

16 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Is Aetna not an American company?

My previous BUPA policy paid out twice without any refusal to re-new, or increase apart from age related increase.

As you say, most people of óur'age have high blood pressure, but if you do your own research on suitable meds, and buy them yourself without a doctor, then you have no pre-existing condition to tell them about. But honestly, I had normal blood pressure when I first took out the policy in 2012, age 64. Then it started to increase, so it was not pre-existing.

"As you say, most people of óur'age have high blood pressure, but if you do your own research on suitable meds, and buy them yourself without a doctor, then you have no pre-existing condition to tell them about."

No. This is very likely to come to light in case of any circulatory related problems, and will cause a rejection of coverage.

[stevenl]

12 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I suspect the OP's premiums would increase dramatically once he hits that magic age of 70.

At 75, I have pre-existing conditions. None of which will kill me. Except with health insurance companies. I do 20 minutes of stretching exercises every morning, plus 30 pushups. Exercise with daily swimming, golf three times a week. I'm probably a lot healthier than many people 10 or 20 years younger than me.

Even if I could get health insurance, it would be about USD 11,000 a year. That's ridiculous.

So I continue to self-insure, and hope to hell the Thai government doesn't have a brain fart about making health insurance compulsory.

One good suggestion I saw was making retirees hold the 800,000 baht on deposit year-round, so it can act as surety for any hospital treatment. I could live with that.  Although that does nothing for those using the income method.

"Even if I could get health insurance, it would be about USD 11,000 a year. That's ridiculous."

That is the problem, from an insurer's perspective they need to ask that premium so it is far from ridiculous. The problem with health insurance is that it is very anti-selective: the people that are most likely to use it are the ones that want it, the people less likely to use it don't want it. Hence in many western countries a universal healthcare system, where the 'strong' help pay for the 'weak'.

[Sheryl]

I really doubt that ($11,000). Is that an actual quote? From which company?

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[Letseng]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, simon43 said:

Certainly this must be price-gouging, because I have no pre-existing medical conditions, no new medical conditions, have never made any claim and have not passed into the next age band.

 

I'm talking with Cigna and David Shield about their typical annual premium % increases.  I don't want to stay with HCI if they intend to financially 'rape' me in this manner.

Premium goes up with age independent of health condition.

[MJKT2014]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

so I suspect you ate rigjt that they lured you in with an artificially low rate and then increased at renewal time to edge it up

HCI did same to me come renewal time, started me low then upped rates 20% / year with no claims. I asked them on phone why my current quote was twice what it was if I registered as a new user, they told me on phone the newbies get cheap rates to bring in custom. I didn't renew.

[how241]

Two questions:  Pacific Cross-They are giving me 500,000 for Person Accident Benefit on their 'Ultima' plans.  There is a option to raise up that benefit for 145 baht/100,000 baht.  It sounds cheap to raise it up to 2-3 million.  Do you think it is worthwhile. That covers loss of life, eyes, hands , and permanent disability caused by ACCIDENT.  Do you think for 15-20,000 baht extra premium, it is better to get the 50 million vs. the 20 million ??       The 20 million option has a 5 year waiting period for permanently implanted medical devices and artificial organs,  the 50 million has no waiting period...Thank you for your help.

Edited January 24, 2019 by how241

[poohy]

Was looking at an AXA policy going through agent

However got refused BMI 29 (never heard of it until today sounds like money making scam according to internet searching) anyway so overweight

put down 3 beers a day for last 30 years (being honest ish guy)... got refused for alcohol habit.

 

You couldn't make it up!even agent said it was harsh

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, poohy said:

Was looking at an AXA policy going through agent

However got refused BMI 29 (never heard of it until today sounds like money making scam according to internet searching) anyway so overweight

put down 3 beers a day for last 30 years (being honest ish guy)... got refused for alcohol habit.

 

You couldn't make it up!even agent said it was harsh

Try a different insurer. Preferrably an intenrational  company.

 

BMI is not a scam, it is a standard way of asessing whether someone is underweight, normal, overweight, obese or morbidly obese.  However, a  BMI of 29 is right on the cusp between merely overweight and obese, and certainly  far form morbid obesity. It would not be an issue with most insurers.

 

Most insurance applications do not ask about alcohol intake, only about health problems.

 

Was this AXA Thailand as opposed to AXA  Global?

[Orton Rd]

On 1/23/2019 at 7:32 PM, how241 said:

Pacific Coast told me no exam ONLY a cataract test and a PSA blood prostate test.  You can skip those tests but will not be covered for those items for 3 years.  This is what I was just told. 

You have to have a medical if you are over 65

[how241]

29 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

You have to have a medical if you are over 65

I am 64 so I guess that's why the agent told me no exam.

[poohy]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Was this AXA Thailand as opposed to AXA  Global?

Err no real idea, The Thai version! I presume, the Underwriter were BKK based

Issues

Apart from a bout of gout lasting a few days 18 months ago and took medication for again being honest  which they also flagged up,No there  were no other heath problems whatsover

They certainly were interested  about alcohol consumption over a period (units/years)

Edited January 24, 2019 by poohy

[Sheryl]

I really advise against a Thai issued policy for a number of reasons.

 

They are not cheaper than international policies.

 

The regulatory envoronment is weak.

 

The health insurance market in Thailand is small and comparatively weak/not very professional. Policies often fail to specify exclusions in advance instead including broad clauses that let them decide after the fact, when you have a claim, that something was related to a pre-existing problem. They often reserve the right to raise rates on an individual basis based on claims history or changes in health status.

 

Note that many international companies have Thai companies affiliated with them selling Thai issued policies. These are separate Thai companies and their policies are not the same as what the global company offers. And it is not necessary to get the Thai policy, you can get a global policy that covers you in Thailand.

 

Make sure you work with a broker who deals with international companies and global expat policies. There are a number of brokers that promote only Thai companies.

 

If yoy want AXA go through AXA Global. But you may find their premium costs to be high compared to other global policies.

 

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[ricklev]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I really advise against a Thai issued policy for a number of reasons.

 

They are not cheaper than international policies.

 

The regulatory envoronment is weak.

 

The health insurance market in Thailand is small and comparatively weak/not very professional. Policies often fail to specify exclusions in advance instead including broad clauses that let them decide after the fact, when you have a claim, that something was related to a pre-existing problem. They often reserve the right to raise rates on an individual basis based on claims history or changes in health status.

 

Note that many international companies have Thai companies affiliated with them selling Thai issued policies. These are separate Thai companies and their policies are not the same as what the global company offers. And it is not necessary to get the Thai policy, you can get a global policy that covers you in Thailand.

 

Make sure you work with a broker who deals with international companies and global expat policies. There are a number of brokers that promote only Thai companies.

 

If yoy want AXA go through AXA Global. But you may find their premium costs to be high compared to other global policies.

 

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If you don't mind, could you share company you are insured on and the details of your policy.  I appreciate your common sense!

[Boombum]

On 1/23/2019 at 1:52 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Once you get a quote off a health insurance firm they don't leave you alone, I've had several emails and phone calls, I've had to block them

Exactly, I got about 8 calls the following day...one directly after another until I answered...tore them to shreds and had to BLOCK No

[dinga]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I really advise against a Thai issued policy for a number of reasons.

 

They are not cheaper than international policies.

 

The regulatory envoronment is weak.

 

The health insurance market in Thailand is small and comparatively weak/not very professional. Policies often fail to specify exclusions in advance instead including broad clauses that let them decide after the fact, when you have a claim, that something was related to a pre-existing problem. They often reserve the right to raise rates on an individual basis based on claims history or changes in health status.

 

Note that many international companies have Thai companies affiliated with them selling Thai issued policies. These are separate Thai companies and their policies are not the same as what the global company offers. And it is not necessary to get the Thai policy, you can get a global policy that covers you in Thailand.

 

Make sure you work with a broker who deals with international companies and global expat policies. There are a number of brokers that promote only Thai companies.

 

If yoy want AXA go through AXA Global. But you may find their premium costs to be high compared to other global policies.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

G'day Sheryl

 

I really appreciate your knowledge, experience and recommendations about health insurance.

 

A few years ago I obtained coverage with Luma - so far so good (although I haven't made any claims) but the policy does have that problematic clause whereby "the Company reserves the right to adjust the premium in accordance with the age and risk profile of the Covered Person".  Don't know if any company has increase premiums based on an individual's history, but appreciate your caution (and the possibility does make me uncomfortable).

 

Have therefore been looking at alternatives - David Shields looks promising, and is cheaper (although there are differences in coverage).  Any thoughts on that company? (seems its been around since 2000, has the HQ in Cyprus and Operational Centre in Israel...)

 

Tks!      

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, dinga said:

G'day Sheryl

 

I really appreciate your knowledge, experience and recommendations about health insurance.

 

A few years ago I obtained coverage with Luma - so far so good (although I haven't made any claims) but the policy does have that problematic clause whereby "the Company reserves the right to adjust the premium in accordance with the age and risk profile of the Covered Person".  Don't know if any company has increase premiums based on an individual's history, but appreciate your caution (and the possibility does make me uncomfortable).

 

Have therefore been looking at alternatives - David Shields looks promising, and is cheaper (although there are differences in coverage).  Any thoughts on that company? (seems its been around since 2000, has the HQ in Cyprus and Operational Centre in Israel...)

 

Tks!      

I have only heard good things about David Shield but you really should address this question to a broker as they have far more experience. I myself couldn't get David Shield as I am above their maximum age for new enrollment.

 

The clause you mention is exactly the problem I referred to. It is especially undesirable if you plan to grow old here. If you develop a chronic health disease that changes your "risk profile" and they an essentially price you out, making the promise of lifetime renewal worthless, and of course by that point you can't get new cover either.

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, ricklev said:

If you don't mind, could you share company you are insured on and the details of your policy.  I appreciate your common sense!

Personally I have April International's "My Health International" Essential plan, note that this is NOT the same as the April Thailand "My Health  Thailand" plan, it is the international policy. But their local Thai office will handle claims and pre-approvals for the global plans as well as the Thai plans which is a definite plus. 

 

I have inpatient cover only. Up to USD $1 million a year.  At age 65 premium was USD $2828 for a year with a  a $500 deductible (excess) on that (this was optional, I did it to lower the premium a bit). Got it through AA Brokers (payment direct to the insurance co).

 

I also have a Person Accident policy with Bangkok Insurance that covers  me for up to 200,000 baht in medical costs (inpatient and outpatient) due to accident, no deductible. The premium was under 7,000 baht for that. (There is also a death benefit etc but I got it for the medical cover). As it happened I was bitten by a cat shortly after taking out that policy  causing a nasty cellulitis so it paid for itself in less than a month. Treatment at private hospital was directly billed to the insurance, at government hospital I paid up front and was reimbursed, reimbursement was prompt. (I was treated at both a government and a private hospital for this, it went on for awhile). This I purchased through Bangkok Insurance brokers, and they handled the claims submission for me.

 

And I have Medicare (parts A and B) in the US.

[HuskerDo]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:38 PM, simon43 said:

Certainly this must be price-gouging, because I have no pre-existing medical conditions, no new medical conditions, have never made any claim and have not passed into the next age band.

 

I'm talking with Cigna and David Shield about their typical annual premium % increases.  I don't want to stay with HCI if they intend to financially 'rape' me in this manner.

With all the traffic accidents/deaths it isn't surprising rates are going up for everyone including those with no claims in years. That's just what insurance companies do. If there were better enforcement of traffic rules it would cut down on accidents/deaths and the rates would stabilize a bit albeit there will always be annual increases.  

[how241]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

The clause you mention is exactly the problem I referred to. It is especially undesirable if you plan to grow old here. If you develop a chronic health disease that changes your "risk profile" and they an essentially price you out, making the promise of lifetime renewal worthless, and of course by that point you can't get new cover either.

You bring up a excellent but worrisome point.  What is to stop almost any insurance co. from pricing you out once they get wind that you might have a chronic disease ???

[HuskerDo]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Personally I have April International's "My Health International" Essential plan, note that this is NOT the same as the April Thailand "My Health  Thailand" plan, it is the international policy. But their local Thai office will handle claims and pre-approvals for the global plans as well as the Thai plans which is a definite plus. 

 

I have inpatient cover only. Up to USD $1 million a year.  At age 65 premium was USD $2828 for a year with a  a $500 deductible (excess) on that (this was optional, I did it to lower the premium a bit). Got it through AA Brokers (payment direct to the insurance co).

 

I also have a Person Accident policy with Bangkok Insurance that covers  me for up to 200,000 baht in medical costs (inpatient and outpatient) due to accident, no deductible. The premium was under 7,000 baht for that. (There is also a death benefit etc but I got it for the medical cover). As it happened I was bitten by a cat shortly after taking out that policy  causing a nasty cellulitis so it paid for itself in less than a month. Treatment at private hospital was directly billed to the insurance, at government hospital I paid up front and was reimbursed, reimbursement was prompt. (I was treated at both a government and a private hospital for this, it went on for awhile). This I purchased through Bangkok Insurance brokers, and they handled the claims submission for me.

 

And I have Medicare (parts A and B) in the US. 

Sheryl - If you don't mind me asking, have you ever had to fly back to the US to use Medicare? Do you know if any/many folks do? I was planning to get health insurance in Thailand that would cover up so a certain point and use Medicare, if needed, for anything serious. 

 

Thanks!!

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, how241 said:

You bring up a excellent but worrisome point.  What is to stop almost any insurance co. from pricing you out once they get wind that you might have a chronic disease ???

Regulations.

[Sheryl]

Sheryl - If you don't mind me asking, have you ever had to fly back to the US to use Medicare? Do you know if any/many folks do? I was planning to get health insurance in Thailand that would cover up so a certain point and use Medicare, if needed, for anything serious.    Thanks!!

 

 

I've only had it for a year and haven't had any reason to use part A. I plan to start using part B for preventive care starting this summer as I go back to the US to visit family annually anyhow and tbere's no copay on preventive care.... and as I have to pay for Part B woukd like to get something out of it!

 

 I have known people to go back to the US for treatment under Medicare. It can be done assuming you are well enough to fly but need to be aware of (1) the not inconsiderable deductibles, (2) not all doctors and clinics accept Medicare. Especially in big cities and (3) nowadays everything that possibly can be, is done as outpatient or day patient. You will not only need a place to stay before and after treatment, you'll need a place to stay/ people to help you while sick.

 

I would not advise getting low level health insurance cover in Thailand on the assumption you can fly back to the US for anything that costs more. A lot of the things that might lead to multi million baht hospital bills here would also have you unfit to fly.

 

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[claynlr]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:36 AM, Sheryl said:

I've only had it for a year and haven't had any reason to use part A. I plan to start using part B for preventive care starting this summer as I go back to the US to visit family annually anyhow and tbere's no copay on preventive care.... and as I have to pay for Part B woukd like to get something out of it!

 

 I have known people to go back to the US for treatment under Medicare. It can be done assuming you are well enough to fly but need to be aware of (1) the not inconsiderable deductibles, (2) not all doctors and clinics accept Medicare. Especially in big cities and (3) nowadays everything that possibly can be, is done as outpatient or day patient. You will not only need a place to stay before and after treatment, you'll need a place to stay/ people to help you while sick.

 

I would not advise getting low level health insurance cover in Thailand on the assumption you can fly back to the US for anything that costs more. A lot of the things that might lead to multi million baht hospital bills here would also have you unfit to fly.

 

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Heh Sheryl....I will check out April. I somehow had it in my head you had gone with Cigna?

[HuskerDo]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:08 PM, geriatrickid said:

Dirt cheap premium. It is difficult to comment not knowing the deductible or  scope of coverage. Insurance spreads the risk over many policy holders so a factor may be in the company loss ratio. As medical costs increase so to must the premiums and we do know that the cost of medical care has increased significantly over the past 5 years. If you are concerned get a quote elsewhere. You can do it online.  

I agree. $100 a month for health insurance is as close to free as you'll ever get.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, claynlr said:

Heh Sheryl....I will check out April. I somehow had it in my head you had gone with Cigna?

I had Cigna for a while. Got annoyed by their inefficient customer service (nothing sinister, just genuinely -- and very -- inept) plus April was cheaper so I changed.  With Cigna you (or the hospital) have to call the UK for everything. April has a local office that will handle pre-authorizations even if you are on the internationally issued  office issues  plan. Whioch is a real plus for communications with thai hospitals.

 

That said, Cigna is a solid company and many TV members have had very good experience with them, including multi million baht claims. And my general impression having been through application process with both was that Cigna is more reasonable regarding pre-existing conditions that are very stable. They will nto, for example, exclude hyppertension if your BP is completely normal on medication and you have not experienced any complications related to it and have no other cardiovascular issues.