Windows Update (wga Notification)

[opalhort]

All my PCs have licensed WIN-XP OEM versions and the 'Windows Genuine Advantage' program was installed long time ago without problems.

Now M$ is obviously trying to install a new version of the WGA tool. For now I've put the installation on hold because I am not sure if it could affect other M$ software on our PCs which might be of dubious origin.

Does anybody have some info about this?

Here is the info about the new WGA thing which auto downloaded yesterday:

opalhort

[Tywais]

Most references I see on the M$ site for KB905474 update (WGA) are over a year old. Might look here and problems some have had in the past. http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?m...&q=KB905474

Seems they have separate validation from XP and office where the KB905474 is for XP validation > http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/

[opalhort]

Most references I see on the M$ site for KB905474 update (WGA) are over a year old. Might look here and problems some have had in the past. http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?m...&q=KB905474

Seems they have separate validation from XP and office where the KB905474 is for XP validation > http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/

I did get an auto download of WGA (same KB905474 update) for our PCs some time last year and had no problem with it, but now M$ wants to install it again!

After having read all the articles about vista being able to disable ANY doubtful M$ software, I'm concerned that the XP version which M$ now forces on us could have the same effect.

Has anybody installed the latest update?

(you won't find any REAL info on any M$ website or forum)

opalhort

[MikeWill]

PM me for the info.

[opalhort]

PM me for the info.

Thanks for your PM.

I'm not really looking for ways how to disable the WGA. My main question is if the latest issue has any effect on M$ software other than the WIN XP OS. Do you have any info about this?

If the new version of WGA checks only the OS then all is OK with me.

opalhort

[higgy88]

opalhort, I'm in the same boat as you and was waiting to see if anyone had some info on this as well, but gave up and installed it this morning. So far no problems with ms office, which I believe is the only "funny" ms software I use as I did check and it was unable to pass their OGA validation test while my Windows XP was able to pass their WGA validation test. Also, I did a check on my computer and that update, WGA Notification KB 905474, was never installed in my computer. My computer identified the WGA Validation Tool KB 892130 as the one that was installed. It is also interesting because I have my computer set up to check for priority updates every day and to both download and install them automatically, and it did not do either with this particular priority update. I had to do it through windows update, which I seldom do. Anyway, since I installed it and have put my computer through it's paces with no apparent problems, I think you can do the same. higgy

[Phil Conners]

Some people must be masochists, accepting this blackmail from M$ !!

[cdnvic]

So much stolen MS software out there I hardly blame them.

[Phil Conners]

Mostly stolen because the price they demand is ridiculous for what they deliver. They are only able to do this due to their predatory business methods and subsequent de-facto monopoly. How can you become the worlds richest man by one single secondary product - not withstanding the many other M$ millionaires in the top-100 richest people of the world. There must be a limit somewhere.

[cdnvic]

Linux and Mac are options that nobody's stopping people from using.

[opalhort]

opalhort, I'm in the same boat as you and was waiting to see if anyone had some info on this as well, but gave up and installed it this morning. So far no problems with ms office, which I believe is the only "funny" ms software I use as I did check and it was unable to pass their OGA validation test while my Windows XP was able to pass their WGA validation test. Also, I did a check on my computer and that update, WGA Notification KB 905474, was never installed in my computer. My computer identified the WGA Validation Tool KB 892130 as the one that was installed. It is also interesting because I have my computer set up to check for priority updates every day and to both download and install them automatically, and it did not do either with this particular priority update. I had to do it through windows update, which I seldom do. Anyway, since I installed it and have put my computer through it's paces with no apparent problems, I think you can do the same. higgy

Thanks higgy, you are very brave! I read somewhere that some M$ WIN updates can not be 'rolled back' with the system restore - is this true or not?

For me this update did auto download but did not auto install (exactly according to my settings - I like to decide what M$ can or can not do to my PC).

Please let me know if you run into any problems. I'll hold the install for another couple of days.

opalhort

[higgy88]

I have a legal windows and I will accept just about anything microsoft throw at me to keep it legal, within reason of course. I specifically bought this HP computer because it had windows preinstalled at the factory. I never even asked the store where I bought it for MS Office, and in my naiviety at the time I actually thought it came with Windows. It was already there so I have been using it.

As far as I know, you cannot roll your computer back using windows restore, or uninstall any of the microsoft updates using the add and remove programs in the control panel, but I use a very nice little free program called ccleaner, which I found here in TV, and it shows all installations including everything from microsoft. It appears to give me the opportunity to uninstall the WGA varification and now notification installations although I have not used it. Also, since I have already flunked their OGA verification test last year and nothing bad has happened and I can still get security updates for it, I decided I had nothing to lose. Go for it, unless someone else here at TV has some information they would like to pass on to us.

[opalhort]

Thanks, Higgy for the ccleaner hint. just downloaded and installed it. Looks good but have not yet used it.

To cdnvic and Phil Conners:

Both of you are correct but:

here is our history:

bought the first PC in '97 from 'PC Resource' with legit WIN95 and Office 97 pre-installed. At that time I was under the impression that Office is part of WIN. (This PC PentiumII 266MHz is still running, and has been upgraded with a legal WIN98 upgrade a couple of years ago). Only found out about Office's origin when I wanted to make changes to language settings and the CD was not available. Tried to obtain a legal version which retailed for 57K Baht in '98 (we paid just over 42K Baht for the PC!!) which was way beyond our means.

In the meantime we established our main database in Access.

If M$ would sell only Access and Excel for something like 3-5K Baht I would be running to get it. We don't need all the other stuff included with office. Word is Ok but there are other easy alternatives.

Changing an Access database to an other format is a job beyond my capabilities so we are stuck with it.

So, yes cdnvic, I fully agree with you that using copied software is wrong but Phil is right in pointing out that M$ have only themselves to blame for it. Why don't they price their software based on the income level of people in the various regions of the globe.

opalhort

[MikeWill]

Linux and Mac are options that nobody's stopping people from using.

That statement is the right one. Why just limit it to Linux and Mac? Ligitimate or not (it is open for debate), there are other pieces of software such as muBliner (Microsoft Update Blinder), for example, to rescue Windows' users.

Quote from muBlinder DISCLAIMER:

muBlinder is intended for use by those who already own a Windows OS licence but might be experiencing difficulty getting updates due to corrupt DLLs or other problems...

BTW. this debate is never ending....

[cdnvic]

Quote from muBlinder DISCLAIMER:

muBlinder is intended for use by those who already own a Windows OS licence but might be experiencing difficulty getting updates due to corrupt DLLs or other problems

Yeah, and warez sites offer software "for educational purposes"

[chingching]

Thanks, Higgy for the ccleaner hint. just downloaded and installed it. Looks good but have not yet used it.

If M$ would sell only Access and Excel for something like 3-5K Baht I would be running to get it. We don't need all the other stuff included with office. Word is Ok but there are other easy alternatives.

Changing an Access database to an other format is a job beyond my capabilities so we are stuck with it.

opalhort

Maybe u can try "Open Office" open source software specifically targeted to replace msoffice. I have not tried it myself, but it would seem likely that it has an easy access conversion.

[Phil Conners]

Linux and Mac are options that nobody's stopping people from using.

Let me remind you that there is a lot of software which is only available for the M$ OS and which won't even run in a VM box.

[cdnvic]

What do you need that can't run on another platform, or doesn't have an alternative to it?

[opalhort]

Maybe u can try "Open Office" open source software specifically targeted to replace msoffice. I have not tried it myself, but it would seem likely that it has an easy access conversion.

Yes, Open Office (OO) is an option. I've experimented with it 3 years ago.

Here is the BUT:

Some people (our customers) receiving OO files were required to us a conversion program before they could open them in M$ Office.

conversion from M$ Office to OO appears to be relatively painless (though not easy!) but the problems pop up when you actually use the databases, usually at times when things have to be done in a hurry and there is no time to dig deep into the system and debug it.

OO is great if you start a database from scratch and set things up so that they are compatible with M$. In our case, creating a new DB and re-entering 9 year's worth of data is just not an option.

If anybody can point me in the direction where I can buy a legal version of M$ Access, Excel and possibly Word 2003 for below 10K Baht, I'll go for it immediately!

opalhort

[nikster]

Most references I see on the M$ site for KB905474 update (WGA) are over a year old. Might look here and problems some have had in the past. http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?m...&q=KB905474

Seems they have separate validation from XP and office where the KB905474 is for XP validation > http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/

I did get an auto download of WGA (same KB905474 update) for our PCs some time last year and had no problem with it, but now M$ wants to install it again!

After having read all the articles about vista being able to disable ANY doubtful M$ software, I'm concerned that the XP version which M$ now forces on us could have the same effect.

Has anybody installed the latest update?

(you won't find any REAL info on any M$ website or forum)

opalhort

Yeah, I did it. No problems.

I may be mistaken but I think I read something to the effect that the new WGA is toned down a bit. Apparently the old one had up to 20% false positives, e.g. people accused of stealing Windows when they had perfectly legal copies. Amazing how such a big and powerful company can consistently produce such crap software. Well, OK, the whole idea of WGA was really asking for it. Not an excuse, merely an explanation...

Ok - so it's pretty unclear what the WGA really does. It looks like MS, like any good monopoly, is blundering in the same wrong direction it was headed before and merely improved some dialogs in WGA as well as making some undisclosed changes.

The way to get rid of it is to install it, then reject the EULA (the big user agreement dialog). Should have done that...

Here's an article (in german): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/result.xhtm...8&words=WGA

The outrageous news is that MS has AGAIN marked this as a "security critical" update even though it most certainly is not. Argue what you want but what do you make of a company that lies into your face? It's beyond belief.

[opalhort]

Yeah, I did it. No problems.

I may be mistaken but I think I read something to the effect that the new WGA is toned down a bit. Apparently the old one had up to 20% false positives, e.g. people accused of stealing Windows when they had perfectly legal copies. Amazing how such a big and powerful company can consistently produce such crap software. Well, OK, the whole idea of WGA was really asking for it. Not an excuse, merely an explanation...

Ok - so it's pretty unclear what the WGA really does. It looks like MS, like any good monopoly, is blundering in the same wrong direction it was headed before and merely improved some dialogs in WGA as well as making some undisclosed changes.

The way to get rid of it is to install it, then reject the EULA (the big user agreement dialog). Should have done that...

Here's an article (in german): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/result.xhtm...8&words=WGA

The outrageous news is that MS has AGAIN marked this as a "security critical" update even though it most certainly is not. Argue what you want but what do you make of a company that lies into your face? It's beyond belief.

OK, I will install it tomorrow. Seems safe to do so at least for now.

This paragraph in your linked article is interesting though:

"Microsoft will die WGA-Notification etwa alle 90 bis 120 Tage aktualisieren, "um es neuen Techniken der Erstellung von Raubkopien“ anzupassen. Wer auf dieses Update lieber verzichten möchte, muss darauf achten, im richtigen Moment die EULA abzulehnen. "

This means we will get a new WGA every 3-4 months under the guise of a security update.

opalhort

edit to correct typos