Pros and Cons of "Marriage" Extension vs. "Retirement" Extension

[kannot]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That might be their rule. It certainly does not apply to all banks.

i  have  a  sole  and  joint  acc  with  them

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, LawrenceN said:

I'm in my eighth year retired in Thailand. At first, I had a marriage visa. Six years ago, I submitted all the paperwork to extend it, wife by my side, all looked good. The IO told me to come back on a particular date more than a month away to get my extension. "No can do," I said. I had a plane ticket booked to be in the US on that date. IO was totally inflexible, said it had to be that one date, with a very smug, satisfied grin, as if she had won some sort of victory. Mrs. and I were incredulous, couldn't believe what we hearing, and no reason was given for the firm date. After we sat there confused for a couple of minutes, IO told us that she could give me a retirement extension right there on the spot. Marriage paperwork covers retirement paperwork and then some. With no other good choice, I took the retirement extension, which I have had ever since. To this day, I don't understand the IO's reaction, why a retirement extension is better from their perspective. So there's that.

If you don't understand the process first, it might seem like officials are messing with you even when they're not.  Varying English abilities on their part can exacerbate it.  If you soak up all the horror stories and negativity from the internet, you might also develop a negative outlook and a short fuse to getting angry and frustrated. 

 

When you submit docs for an extension based on marriage, there's a 30 day processing period, after which you must return and receive the extension/permission to stay stamp in your passport.  That's standard procedure.  It would also be right at the end of your existing permission to stay so sure, you need to show up and finish the process, or make other arrangements.

 

Doing an extension based on marriage involves more paperwork and effort on your part as well as for Immigration.  That's why they might try to "sell" you on Retirement if you're qualified.   "My" I/O teased me every year about doing Retirement extension, even though I wasn't old enough.  I am now, my next extension will be Retirement.  Nice! 

Edited January 27, 2019 by 55Jay

[Guest]

I have been retired here in BKK for 8 years, and with a lovely girl for 5 years who is exactly like a (good) wife, but never bothered with the official paperwork.  We are considering building a house and frankly, the 400,000 freed up via a marriage visa verses a retirement visa was tempting.

Reading this, really wondering if it is worth the hassle, and opening a can of worms that can become a problem later.

I predict things will get a lot harder for marriage visas in 2019:

(1) Embassies are no longer furnishing income letters

 

(2) Without letters and the required 800,000 in a “seasoned” account, some may see the 400,000 as a way out.

(3) This will precipitate an avalanche of exactly the BS marriages Thai Imigration tries to root out and stop.

 

(4) Therefore … scrutiny and excessive paperwork will increase.

555 – Upon reading my own advice … “remaining happily retired and 800,000 in the bank”

[onera1961]

7 minutes ago, bangkokequity said:

(1) Embassies are no longer furnishing income letters

Wrong. Such a self-centric view. Your embassy is not furnishing "income letters"

[joloit]

22 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You need 2 visits to immigration for the marriage extension while you can do everything in one day for the retirement extension.

 

...... not in Phuket!!! You need 2 days for retirement extemsion as well.... 

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Having done both, I can tell you the marriage visa is infinitely harder to get. The hoops they make you jump over are beyond ridiculous. My file is probably 125 pages. Just for an application. It is stupid. Seems they prefer the 800K, over the 400k. And each year it is the same. 10 photos of your home, inside and out. Maps to your home. A Thai witness who lives near your home accompanying you to immigration, to testify that you live there! Each year, it is another 100 pages or more, of data, images, statements, etc. It is the very definition of stupidity, xenophobia, arrogance, ignorance and hubris. And did I mention a waste of perfectly good stationary?

Well said....you captured what I've always thought (right or wrong) about marriage extensions of stay.

 

From reading many TV posts over the years regarding marriage extension of stays the extra documents, extra visit or two to immigration, taking along some witnesses to validate "you & the wife are indeed married...live together...etc" is definitely not as easy as getting a retirement extension of stay excluding the income difference requirement (Bt400K vs Bt800K).    And based on quite a few posts it seems some immigration offices seem to make a marriage extension a real obstacle course....but hey, some offices can make a retirement extension an obstacle course also....every person's immigration office and situation can be different.

 

While I'm married to a Thai also for many decades I've always done a retirement extension of stay for almost a decade now.  Do in all by myself....no agent, wife, or witnesses needed to tag along.  Fortunately, I don't have an issue in putting Bt800K in a Thai bank.  I know many could easily put Bt800K in the bank but just don't want to for whatever reason like maybe don't trust Thai banks....that's OK as it's the individual's money to do with as desired.

 

Each year I've done my retirement extension of stay at Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) Immigration with my application consisting of a few pieces of easily completed/obtained forms...I'm in-and-out within a few hours.  With my latest extension I arrived a 8:30am (immigration opening time) and was walking out the door & done for another year at 9:58am (a little quicker than normal)....but each year I've always been done well before noon.

 

A retirement extension of stay using the Bt800K in a Thai bank for 3 months before your application date is the "no fuss, no muss" method. 

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, LawrenceN said:

with a very smug, satisfied grin, as if she had won some sort of victory

Only visible through the eyes of Khun Farang who suffers a loss of face.

 

Always interesting how farang who feel frustrated resort to negative comments about the physical appearance of the officer. My favorite was the farang who was refused something at the airport and then told us all in great detail that the officer had crooked teeth.

[cnx355]

3 hours ago, wombat said:

the real difference between the two is 400K.

Plus more paperwork and photo and maps and sometimes a home visit later.

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, bangkokequity said:

...
I predict things will get a lot harder for marriage visas in 2019:
(1) Embassies are no longer furnishing income letters

(2) Without letters and the required 800,000 in a “seasoned” account, some may see the 400,000 as a way out.
(3) This will precipitate an avalanche of exactly the BS marriages Thai Imigration tries to root out and stop. 

(4) Therefore … scrutiny and excessive paperwork will increase.

555 – Upon reading my own advice … “remaining happily retired and 800,000 in the bank”

On #3 - Most of the marriages will have been in place for years or even decades, with some switching from "common law" to official.  Given the relatively low costs of an agent, vs a wife (even a fake/rented one), I really don't see "fake marriages" being an issue at all.

 

However, I agree with your conclusion- immigration is likely to push back hard to the massive-increase in marriage-based extensions, given the a clique who never liked us being married to Thais in the first place - so have made the process of extensions based on marriage include pointless, completely-unjustified hassles - which leads to the front-line IOs hating the process as well.

[sawadee1947]

22 hours ago, NavaJauvana said:

Thank you, Ubonjoe. I have one more (probably my last) question.

 

If one gets a retirement extension this year, but next year he has less than 800K baht (but over 400K baht) in his bank account to meet the income requirement, is it easy to switch from the "retirement" extension to a "marriage" extension? Or does one need to start the process all over again with a new Non-Imm O visa?

Take a letter from your embassy stating your income. Then you are free to do what you want. 

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, moontang said:

Had several expats tell me retirement was simpler and easier...and they were still in line at 5am in Chiang Mai.

That que-scam, to force agent-use, was shut down at CM, per recent reports.  It was far too obvious, and looked bad making elderly people sit in a parking-lot all night. 

 

I would expect "unpublished requirement" scams to fill in, given the expensive lifestyles of those with only an IO's salary are now put in jeopardy - but no reports of this yet.

 

9 hours ago, moontang said:

They also seem to be more on the lookout for people using "good" offices for extensions, with no real residence in that province

Yes, because that avoids their local-agent contacts being used, so cuts them out of the "action."  In this context, CM was reported to be refusing TM-28 (move) submissions - but not sure if that has changed since the recent "cleanup" operation there.

Edited January 27, 2019 by JackThompson

[Sheryl]

Having done both, I can tell you the marriage visa is infinitely harder to get. The hoops they make you jump over are beyond ridiculous. My file is probably 125 pages. Just for an application. It is stupid. Seems they prefer the 800K, over the 400k. And each year it is the same. 10 photos of your home, inside and out. Maps to your home. A Thai witness who lives near your home accompanying you to immigration, to testify that you live there! Each year, it is another 100 pages or more, of data, images, statements, etc. It is the very definition of stupidity, xenophobia, arrogance, ignorance and hubris. And did I mention a waste of perfectly good stationary?

What you overlook is that there are in fact many fake marriages here for visa purposes. These requirements have been added for a reason.

Would make sense though to ease up on people after X years of repeated verifications.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Only visible through the eyes of Khun Farang who suffers a loss of face.

What possible reason would there be for a "smile" when the applicant had a plane to catch on the day his "in consideration" time would end?

 

Might it be, that the IO knew he now had leverage to avoid having to process a marriage-based extension?

 

3 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Always interesting how farang who feel frustrated resort to negative comments about the physical appearance of the officer. My favorite was the farang who was refused something at the airport and then told us all in great detail that the officer had crooked teeth.

A smile is a reaction - not an "appearance" in the same sense.  I agree, the "crooked teeth" comment was uncalled for. 

 

After all, some IOs with "crooked teeth" might go out their way to help a foreigner - by changing their "under consideration" period date, suggesting they use a re-entry permit for it, or etc.

[riclag]

 When transferring  money from the states, I use to use the NY BBK BK Ach method which never asked the reason you want to transfer  money. Now with the swift international method ,I will use another source(Etrade Bank). The form want's a reason why you are want this transfer.  So just use the reason,marriage visa or a retirement depending what suits you?

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What you overlook is that there are in fact many fake marriages here for visa purposes. These requirements have been added for a reason.

What evidence for this was there of these fake-marriages?  I am reminded of the "fake embassy letters" comments - for which I never saw any evidence. 

 

Consider the cost of an agent, vs the cost of faking a marriage with a Thai lady.  Especially for those 50+, it would be idiotic.  For under-50s, ED Visa scams (supported by immigration) would still be much cheaper.  I am not encouraging either - but we are discussing what a scammer would do, in this context. 

Getting married - when does not confer ANY of the rights marriage would in most nations - seems highly unlikely as a way to scam to stay in Thailand.

 

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Would make sense though to ease up on people after X years of repeated verifications.

Yes - if the hurdles set-up had anything to do with verifying the marriage was genuine.  Beyond the basic paperwork, only the home-visit does that.  All the rest (pics, etc) could be faked or paid-for.  In fact, I paid my legit-witness (a guard at our condo) for their time - 2 hours at immigration for us when they got off-shift.  A faker might have to pay a bit more - but the big cost would be for the "wife" going along with it. 

 

Meanwhile, across town, I could have obtained an agent-based extension for 13K Baht.  Scammer-logic says they go to the agent.  Marriage-based agent-extensions are about 25K - no home-visits, witnesses, etc. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by JackThompson

[55Jay]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

Well said....you captured what I've always thought (right or wrong) about marriage extensions of stay.

 

From reading many TV posts over the years regarding marriage extension of stays the extra documents, extra visit or two to immigration, taking along some witnesses to validate "you & the wife are indeed married...live together...etc" is definitely not as easy as getting a retirement extension of stay excluding the income difference requirement (Bt400K vs Bt800K).    And based on quite a few posts it seems some immigration offices seem to make a marriage extension a real obstacle course....but hey, some offices can make a retirement extension an obstacle course also....every person's immigration office and situation can be different.

 

While I'm married to a Thai also for many decades I've always done a retirement extension of stay for almost a decade now.  Do in all by myself....no agent, wife, or witnesses needed to tag along.  Fortunately, I don't have an issue in putting Bt800K in a Thai bank.  I know many could easily put Bt800K in the bank but just don't want to for whatever reason like maybe don't trust Thai banks....that's OK as it's the individual's money to do with as desired.

 

Each year I've done my retirement extension of stay at Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) Immigration with my application consisting of a few pieces of easily completed/obtained forms...I'm in-and-out within a few hours.  With my latest extension I arrived a 8:30am (immigration opening time) and was walking out the door & done for another year at 9:58am (a little quicker than normal)....but each year I've always been done well before noon.

 

A retirement extension of stay using the Bt800K in a Thai bank for 3 months before your application date is the "no fuss, no muss" method. 

Agreed, although I have to say, my first extension based on marriage was an adventure, because it was the first time, and there was that neighbor witness thing to deal with - thankfully forms and photos, didn't have to drag them to Immigration with us.

 

Every year since, wash, rinse repeat, never considered it that much of an admin burden.  That said, I ain't gunna miss it this next time.  Hello Retirement extension. 

[riclag]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

On #3 - Most of the marriages will have been in place for years or even decades, with some switching from "common law" to official.  Given the relatively low costs of an agent, vs a wife (even a fake/rented one), I really don't see "fake marriages" being an issue at all.

 

However, I agree with your conclusion- immigration is likely to push back hard to the massive-increase in marriage-based extensions, given the a clique who never liked us being married to Thais in the first place - so have made the process of extensions based on marriage include pointless, completely-unjustified hassles - which leads to the front-line IOs hating the process as well.

I think the embassy's not  wanting to submit  income affidavit's together with   opening up new rules(money must be shown coming from another country) has created all of this! It would be advantageous for expats on a marriage visa to have a courteous relationship IF POSSIBLE with a Immigration officer! Once that's  established by your wife,it could ease the stress on the Officer ! Over the years on 3 occasions  I have given small gifts for one IO officer!

[spidermike007]

38 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What you overlook is that there are in fact many fake marriages here for visa purposes. These requirements have been added for a reason.

Would make sense though to ease up on people after X years of repeated verifications.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That is my point. After vetting us to a silly extent, what changes? Why all the sweat each time? Why not streamline the renewal process? Keep the initial application difficult, to find the frauds, but once you have established the facts, make the renewal easier. Just makes sense. Common sense. Sorry, I forgot. 

[spidermike007]

30 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Agreed, although I have to say, my first extension based on marriage was an adventure, because it was the first time, and there was that neighbor witness thing to deal with - thankfully forms and photos, didn't have to drag them to Immigration with us.

 

Every year since, wash, rinse repeat, never considered it that much of an admin burden.  That said, I ain't gunna miss it this next time.  Hello Retirement extension. 

 

Are you saying the witness was NOT required on subsequent extensions? It is probably the most ridiculous and inane part of renewals. Come on guys, you have already established the facts. Get it together, please. We are not the enemy!

[Thomas J]

23 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Marriage 

Pro - you can work (with a work permit)

Con - You have to be married.

That is the funniest thing I have heard in months.  I literally broke out laughing when I read it.  Thumbs Up. 

[55Jay]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Are you saying the witness was NOT required on subsequent extensions? It is probably the most ridiculous and inane part of renewals. Come on guys, you have already established the facts. Get it together, please. We are not the enemy!

Correct, at least in my case, not sure about others / other offices. 

 

Had two neighbors sign witness forms provided to me by Immigration.  I was told to take a photo of each neighbor as they signed the form, and provide that, along with a copy of their Thai ID. 

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Thumbs Up.

OK. Thanks.

[JackThompson]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Are you saying the witness was NOT required on subsequent extensions? It is probably the most ridiculous and inane part of renewals.

This policy varies by office - depending on the local head-honcho's attitudes on mixed-marriages and/or desire for agent-money.

 

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Come on guys, you have already established the facts. Get it together, please. We are not the enemy!

They sure treated my Thai wife like one.  Thank goodness 99% of Thais don't have those views.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Take a letter from your embassy stating your income. Then you are free to do what you want. 

That depends on which Embassy is yours.

[wgdanson]

31 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

That is the funniest thing I have heard in months.  I literally broke out laughing when I read it.  Thumbs Up. 

My God man, get on you tube and watch Jimmy Carr, Bernard Manning or even watch Eastenders, you'll get a better laugh than reading Thai Visa.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, wombat said:

the real difference between the two is 400K.

Not being married?

Those that use it I expect are pressed to financially, as personally I find the requirements all rather intrusive. Silly pics sitting on bed, and in front of house with number showing, a neighbour holding a cup of tea and apparently a little 'messing about' in Jomtiem where they would much prefer you to use an agent.  Don't you also have to wait up to a month while it get's approved at regional HQ and are unable to spend any deposited money meanwhile? I get to pick mine up next day.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Yes same.  What I would like to know is the TM30 required for retirement and marriage extensions. In a current thread running a member stated that tm30 was now required for extension at CW. Note it sounded like his extension was based on marriage. Many others (myself included) where stating that they have NEVER been asked for tm30 over many years, including recent extensions. Their extensions based on retirement. So what's the go?

A difficult question to answer as reports of CW insisting on a TM.30 are relatively new. It could be that they only require it if another form of proof of address isn't available.

[Pilotman]

I went from a Non O based on marriage to a extension of stay based on retirement.  I have no intention of working here, so the ability to work doesn't bother me.  The requirement for up to date photos, interviews, IOs talking to neighbours, home visits was too much for me to contemplate, so I opted out. For me, a retirement  extension is much less hassle. 

[55Jay]

Just now, Pilotman said:

I went from a Non O based on marriage to a extension of stay based on retirement.  I have no intention of working here, so the ability to work doesn't bother me.  The requirement for up to date photos, interviews, IOs talking to neighbours, home visits was too much for me to contemplate, so I opted out. For me, a retirement  extension is much less hassle. 

Yup.  If you've got the money, are 50+ and don't care about working here, retirement extension is a no-brainer. 

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, LawrenceN said:

I'm in my eighth year retired in Thailand. At first, I had a marriage visa. Six years ago, I submitted all the paperwork to extend it, wife by my side, all looked good. The IO told me to come back on a particular date more than a month away to get my extension. "No can do," I said. I had a plane ticket booked to be in the US on that date. IO was totally inflexible, said it had to be that one date, with a very smug, satisfied grin, as if she had won some sort of victory. Mrs. and I were incredulous, couldn't believe what we hearing, and no reason was given for the firm date. After we sat there confused for a couple of minutes, IO told us that she could give me a retirement extension right there on the spot. Marriage paperwork covers retirement paperwork and then some. With no other good choice, I took the retirement extension, which I have had ever since. To this day, I don't understand the IO's reaction, why a retirement extension is better from their perspective. So there's that.

An 'under consideration' period of 30 days is standard practice. Some offices apply 30 days from the date you apply, others form the date your current extension ends, which is the correct procedure. It sounds like yours was the latter. The IO wouldn't of had the authority to give you a different date, smug or otherwise.