Are You A Sexpat Or Do You Ride The Backwards Morality Train?

[Guest Jerry787]

again unacceptable US arrogance meddling and messing in other country freedom, causing civil wars, deaths, destruction and disgrace.

Venezuela oil reservoirs are wanted by US and their multinationals, who cares about the Venezuelan people already at hunger for all the embargos imposed by US against such people

 

Juan Puppet not Guaido an US trained puppet as was Pinot Che who by himself , self elect himself to president, even if maduro want the elections by majority

so tomorrow, if US sponsor me i can proclaim that i am the new PM of Australia ? 

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The US one of many nations taking measures. Is Peru the policeman of the world?

Duh.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You have missed the point.

 

The point is that why should the USA or any other nation be forced to pick sides to determine who is the rightful president?

 

Perhaps he did stack the election in his favour, but so did Hun Sen in Cambodia and probably Prayuth here in Thailand, yet the USA, EU etc are not crying to the UN that the election was rigged, or trying to disable the elections in those countries.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You have missed the point.

 

The point is that why should the USA or any other nation be forced to pick sides to determine who is the rightful president?

 

Perhaps he did stack the election in his favour, but so did Hun Sen in Cambodia and probably Prayuth here in Thailand, yet the USA, EU etc are not crying to the UN that the election was rigged, or trying to disable the elections in those countries.

Deflective what aboutism again!

Dude, today's Venezuela is a very specific case. 

In my view anyone that has a look at what happened there would understand full well why there is such intense international interest about Venezuela especially the South American countries and certainly the North American nations as they in the close by area as well.

A shocking percentage of Venezuelans are already refugees and those numbers could multiply massively as some have already projected.

Let me ask you a question.

What percentage of those refugees do you think support Maduro staying in power?

Put yourself in the shoes of those remaining that aren't on the Maduro-Putin payroll. 10 million percent annual inflation. Can you even imagine what that's like to actually live (or die) through? 

I have a dream. Most of the refugees going home and new ones not going. Maybe an improbable dream but 100 percent impossible with Maduro in power. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[CanuckThai]

2 hours ago, Jerry787 said:

again unacceptable US arrogance meddling and messing in other country freedom, causing civil wars, deaths, destruction and disgrace.

Venezuela oil reservoirs are wanted by US and their multinationals, who cares about the Venezuelan people already at hunger for all the embargos imposed by US against such people

 

Juan Puppet not Guaido an US trained puppet as was Pinot Che who by himself , self elect himself to president, even if maduro want the elections by majority

so tomorrow, if US sponsor me i can proclaim that i am the new PM of Australia ? 

 

 

...changed my response.

Edited January 27, 2019 by CanuckThai
penmanship

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[Jingthing]

From the SOCIALIST P.M. of Spain. 
You know it's a big deal because Maduro is barking mad about it.

Quote

Spain to recognizes Guaido if Venezuela’s Maduro refuses to call elections

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-spain-idUSKCN1PK0CG

 

Again, this isn't about socialism vs. more right wing ideologies.

It's not about Yankee imperialism. 

It's about Maduro's tragically failed state and it's people trying to fight back but being too powerless because Maduro pays off his military with Putin's money.

 

 

[Mai Mee Tang]

Socialist party from Spain (PSOE) is not really socialist anymore, they kept the name, that's it.

 

I liked some of what Chávez did, not that much Maduro. During the last years most of the venezuelans I have heard complaining of both of them were from wealthy families. It's been a long time since my last visit so cannot tell personally how is the situation right now. But at that time I realized how biased was the media (mostly the right wing) against the Venezuelan government with Chávez.

 

IMO, what matters to the USA goverment about civil rights in Venezuela or somewhere else tends to zero, but Venezuela being a close by country with one of the biggest oil reserve in the world, then, of course, a more friendly President would be welcomed. I just hope for Venezuela this won't end in a civil war or even worse.

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, Mai Mee Tang said:

Socialist party from Spain (PSOE) is not really socialist anymore, they kept the name, that's it.

 

I liked some of what Chávez did, not that much Maduro. During the last years most of the venezuelans I have heard complaining of both of them were from wealthy families. It's been a long time since my last visit so cannot tell personally how is the situation right now. But at that time I realized how biased was the media (mostly the right wing) against the Venezuelan government with Chávez.

 

IMO, what matters to the USA goverment about civil rights in Venezuela or somewhere else tends to zero, but Venezuela being a close by country with one of the biggest oil reserve in the world, then, of course, a more friendly President would be welcomed. I just hope for Venezuela this won't end in a civil war or even worse.

Chavez is gone. 

I agree he did a lot of good for awhile. 

May as well be ancient history.

Not a mention from you of the millions of refugees or 10 million percent annual inflation. You accuse bias. I smell your bias.

I find it hilarious that your focus is the USA's interest in their oil (which they do purchase) but not a word for the play that Putin made that is financing Maduro's army. What the (deleted) is Putin doing messing in the American region? Let's not be naïve morons. Putin's aim is to effectively weaken and destroy the United States, democracies in general,  and NATO. That could not be more obvious. He tries to do that in any way that he can. Whether the documented involvement in the U.S. and western European elections, his role in the Middle East, or trolling the USA by bankrolling Maduro. 

As far as "trump" this is definitely an interesting situation. He has the lowest domestic approval he's ever had and he's under a very real impeachment threat, and people worrying about a wag the dog situation aren't being paranoid.

However, it's not all necessarily looking dark at the moment.

There is broad international coalition now on the same page against Maduro and there is NO desire for a war there and a very impressive Latin American anti-Maduro consensus.

The USA of course still remains a very consequential nation even with it's current ridiculous clown demagogue president, so if "trump" is involved in helping bring about a peaceful resolution that sees Maduro out and Venezuela begin a long recovery, he can potentially get a big win at home and abroad. Which he does need desperately. 

On the other hand, if things develop into war,  which is certainly possible, "trump" can do the wag the dog thing and regain more power and support by leading in an active war.

Obviously the peaceful outcome is what decent people want.  But it's a risky time and it really does look like things may really be changing there, even soon. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

The US supports democracy as long as the democratic process produces an outcome favorable to the US.

    

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The US supports democracy as long as the democratic process produces an outcome favorable to the US.

    

It's too easy to demonize the U.S. that way with such knee jerk digs.

To add, it's not even fair. 

There was a recent fair election in Mexico. The USA under any president wouldn't usually love a far leftist shift in our closest neighbor.

The U.S. government even under bizarro con man "trump" has not objected to their democratic process and has fully accepted the result.

Let's focus on Venezuela today.

It's a failed state.

If they did have a reasonably fair election right now, the chance of Maduro winning is zero, and the chances of someone winning that pleases the majority of Venezuelans is very high. 

Sure the U.S. government would like that result too. As would all the nations and more on the broad coalition list recognizing the new transitional president. So freakin' what?

The most important thing here is relief for the Venezuelan people. That can never happen with Maduro in charge.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's too easy to demonize the U.S. that way with such knee jerk digs.

To add, it's not even fair. 

There was a recent fair election in Mexico. The USA under any president wouldn't usually love a far leftist shift in our closest neighbor.

The U.S. government even under bizarro con man "trump" has not objected to their democratic process and has fully accepted the result.

Let's focus on Venezuela today.

It's a failed state.

If they did have a reasonably fair election right now, the chance of Maduro winning are zero, and the chances of someone winning that pleases the majority of Venezuelans is very high. 

Sure the U.S. government would like that result too. As would all the nations and more on the broad coalition list recognizing the new transitional president. So freakin' what?

The most important thing here is relief for the Venezuelan people. That can never happen with Maduro in charge.

We will see how long the US would be supportive of the :democratic process in Mexico if mexico decided no to be aligned with the US as it would have every right to do as a sovereign nation. Especially if oil gets involved.

But since this is a thread about Venezuela,I will just say this, The discovery of oil  in any small country is the beginning of the end of democracy.  

 

 

 

The examples of the US subverting the democratic process of a nation are Numerous.  Only recently After the Egyptian people  overthrew the brutal dictatorship of Mubarak they celebrated the return of Democracy and in free elections the muslim brotherhood gained a majority. Guess what happened?

  When Greek democracy produced an outcome not desirable to the US . Hello greek military Junta, By By Unified Cyprus. 

But since you want to stay on the Venezuelan subject, Let's talk about Venezuela,   Venezuela as a sovereign country has the right to decide  how to govern itself, This whole thing started when democratically elected Chavez tried to take charge of Venezuela's oil and align itself with socialist governments.

  Such thing can not be allowed to succeed , if it did other might try it. Bring out the CIA. 

 

[Srikcir]

https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/27/is-it-legal-for-juan-guaido-to-be-proclaimed-venezuela-s-interim-president

 

• Juan Guaidó "did not proclaim himself interim President of Venezuela, he was proclaimed president of the Assembly, and it's because of this that he assumes the role of President of the Republic until elections are called, as stated in the 1999 Constitution,"
• Article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution states that “when the president-elect is absolutely absent [???] before taking office, a new election shall take place (...) And while the president is elected and takes office, the interim president shall be the president of the National Assembly.” (The National Assembly is not the State!)
• the positions of popular representation are elected by the people," - Tibisay Lucena, head of the CNE
• the CNE insisted that the country's voting system is "transparent, reliable (and) rigorously verifiable in all its phases," which is why Maduro "legitimately exercises" the presidency.

Guadó be may be right to call for a new presidential election but I don't see how he can declare himself under the Constitution as president- Head of State - other than by force from foreign nations.

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/27/is-it-legal-for-juan-guaido-to-be-proclaimed-venezuela-s-interim-president

 

• Juan Guaidó "did not proclaim himself interim President of Venezuela, he was proclaimed president of the Assembly, and it's because of this that he assumes the role of President of the Republic until elections are called, as stated in the 1999 Constitution,"
• Article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution states that “when the president-elect is absolutely absent [???] before taking office, a new election shall take place (...) And while the president is elected and takes office, the interim president shall be the president of the National Assembly.” (The National Assembly is not the State!)
• the positions of popular representation are elected by the people," - Tibisay Lucena, head of the CNE
• the CNE insisted that the country's voting system is "transparent, reliable (and) rigorously verifiable in all its phases," which is why Maduro "legitimately exercises" the presidency.

Guadó be may be right to call for a new presidential election but I don't see how he can declare himself under the Constitution as president- Head of State - other than by force from foreign nations.

If it works out such technicalities become irrelevant. This is a transitional situation in a really severe crisis in a totally failed state. Call new elections because the previous ones were a total sham, how constitutional was that rigged election? To add I'm no scholar on their constitution and neither are you. Nations of the world are taking sides now and the people that want the best for the people there are on the pro Guado side, end of.