Comedy Of Errors

[mark lamai]

Never missed a flight before, ever.

here's how you can do it.

Immigration incompetence combined with carrier too cheap to make announcements..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suvarnabhumi Airport

21-02-2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Booked on Air Asia to Yangon at 07:15.

Enter passport control a few minutes before 06:30

Astonished at the number of people in queues.

(the larger hall more to the left side,

I did not know there were two)

Maybe 2000 people. 2 counters not operating.

At approx. 07:05 with about 5 people still in front of me,

I approached the counter, tapping my watch,

and said "I will miss my flight".

The officer looked and down quickly and said and did nothing.

I looked for a supervisor kind of person on the floor,

but could see noone monitoring the situation.

Passed through passport control at 07:14 approx.

dashed to boarding gate to see the plane pulling away from

the airbridge.

I was then angry and swearing.

A security guard (farang male) attempted to placate me.

I enquired about why there was no announcement asking

a missing passenger to make themselves known.

He said there were some in the local area of the gate

but they and other airlines did not do announcements

in the wider airport area because it would be too chaotic.

This later proved to be a white lie, they don't do them simply because

they have to pay the airport for announcements.

He also suggested I missed the plane because I was walking too slowly!

I was escorted back through customs and then to collect baggage.

Enquired as to who was the passport control manager,

and was told he would arrive at 09:00.

Attempted negotiation of putting me on another airline failed.

Best offer they made was for me to pay 2500 baht to take the same flight next day.

Well now I wanted to complain about the passport control absurdity.

(I was later told that it happened everyday and everyone knew about it).

Went to passport control at 09:00 and asked to see the manager.

Was told "cannot".

Went to information desk and asked about complaints department.

Was told it was on the 5th floor of the AOT building (after 30 mins of phone calls).

Went to AOT building, was told they don't have a complaints department.

Helpful man , after many phone calls, said the Air Asia "Section manager" would

come to see me. A man arrived and i was escorted back to Air Asia sales desk.

The "boss" said the same thing again, pay more tomorrow.

Went to information desk and asked again about complaints.

After many phone calls spoke to the "Vice-president of Human Relations".

A well spoken and polite Thai lady.

Took my verbal complaint and explained that they cannot tell Customs to do anything,

but they have monthly meetings.

Asked who was the boss of customs.

Information lady eventually found someone on the phone and explained (I guess)

about this farang wanting to make a complaint.

I spoke to him about my complaint,

He said it was impossible to take that long since there are 20 people in a queue

taking one minute each. He did not believe what I said.

He said speak to my boss.

The information lady spoke to the Commander of the Bureau of Immigration.

I was told the Commander had spoken to Air Asia boss.

I went to Air Asia desk, enquired if he had spoken to the Commander of the Bureau of Immigration.

Khun Pra-vit Tel: 02130269)

He said he had not.

Went to Information desk and asked if the Commander had spoken to Air Asia.

They thought so.

Phone calls.

Asked to wait for Air Asia person to come to see me.

The manager arrived with the farang security man and at least 3 Thai

airport security men.

Asked the manager lady if she had spoken to the Commander.

She said no.

She invited me downstairs to the Police Station to continue our chat, I declined.

I asked if any of her staff had spoken to the Commander.

Farang ( who was answering most of my questions aggressively),

said someone had spoken to the Commander.

I asked what did he say, the manager said nothing,

the farang said that the Commander said to "fix the problem",

"that is , to get rid of you".

Further negotiations on compensation failed again,

and seeing that they were getting very serious about either arresting me

or throwing me out, I got a bit scared and I said its a stalemate and walked off.

The Thai solution to troublemakers works again, point a gun at them.

------------------------

some bits missing, in all took over 5 hours.

I paid out 7150 baht for Thai Airways ticket tonight at 18:00

Got ripped off by King Power buying a flash card reader to send pic to bangkok post,

have only 1 at 1650baht in all 6 shops.

going nuts looking for a wi-fi connection that works.

its really quite hot and sticky inside today.

expensive revolving doors no longer used since they opened the real doors.

I would congratulate the information counter girls for their help, patience and understanding.

Everyone else was doing the old Thai blame-shifting and run-away.

It woulld seem that Immigration are immune from complaints.

------------------------------------------------------

[Mid]

[toptuan]

A couple of observations:

1) Standard protocol at major airports worldwide: Arrive 1 hour before domestic flights, and 2 hours before international flights. (With the exception of the USA since 9/11: that's been extended to 90 minutes before domestic departures and 2.5 to 3 hours prior to international departures).

You immediately shot yourself in the foot to arrive 45 minutes before an international flight, and then expect airport authorities to move heaven and earth to get you on it in time. I can just imagine the phone calls that proceeded each of your complaining-visits: "Hey Pornchai, I just sent a dude over to you who showed up 45 minutes before his flight and missed it. You know what to do with him..."

2) You're going to have a heart-attack or some other stress induced illness soon, if you keep trying to change Thailand. Number one: you're a farang. No one's going to listen to you and admit that an outsider knows a better way. Number two: In their eyes, your actions and behavior made an a$$ out of yourself, and put you into an even weaker position to change a Thai's mind or procedures.

After mirroring your behavior for about a year, and beginning to hate Thailand, I had a kind Thai friend tell me that I wasn't going to make it here if I didn't adopt a more "mai pen rai" demeanor about living and working within the Thai system/non-system.

I was then reminded of Eleanor Roosevelt's famous line,

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

Well, my friend, as a farang, the list in Thailand of things you cannot change is MUCH longer than in your home country. Here, the system will crush you before you will change it.

Realizing these concepts was a major mental and emotional turning point for me as an expat in Thailand. I began to relax, learn to choose my battles more carefully, and actually began to see and mimic how the Thai do it (which gets more effective results within their cultural context).

Edited February 24, 2007 by toptuan

[TheWalkingMan]

Wow, that pic shows a lot of people.

When immigration is crowded at Narita Airport in Japan, some airlines send staff to the area to ask if someone has a ticket for a flight due to leave shortly. This does help to ensure that flyers do not miss their flight.

TheWalkingMan

[dreimer]

I have lived here 8 years and MAI "mai phen rai".

If you accept that crap then live with it.

I do not (well maybe 50-50)

[Tony Clifton]

Air Asia. Domestic flight. I waited last in a short line of four once while a man in front was holding a stack of about about 30 passports. Took forever, the staff were too dumb to proceed with me first even though I pointed to my single passport and watch. When I finally walked up to the counter, I was told I could not board and that the plane had already left. The flight was scheduled to leave 20 minutes later.

[toptuan]

I have lived here 8 years and MAI "mai phen rai".

If you accept that crap then live with it.

I do not (well maybe 50-50)

...and you'll always be a stressed-out outsider, for as long as your heart holds out. (well, at least 50% of the time!)

[Galong]

After mirroring your behavior for about a year, and beginning to hate Thailand, I had a kind Thai friend tell me that I wasn't going to make it here if I didn't adopt a more "mai pen rai" demeanor about living and working within the Thai system/non-system.

Horse hockey! Thais get just as pissed off as anyone and they have less patience than most folks I encounter. Mai Be Rai is just an excuse to screw off and not do the job right.

[toptuan]

Air Asia. Domestic flight. I waited last in a short line of four once while a man in front was holding a stack of about about 30 passports. Took forever, the staff were too dumb to proceed with me first even though I pointed to my single passport and watch. When I finally walked up to the counter, I was told I could not board and that the plane had already left. The flight was scheduled to leave 20 minutes later.

For me, the interesting issue is: what did you do about it? The "mai pen rai" route? Or did you also fruitlessly go to 12 different management levels, accomplishing nothing except an elevated blood pressure?

[toptuan]

After mirroring your behavior for about a year, and beginning to hate Thailand, I had a kind Thai friend tell me that I wasn't going to make it here if I didn't adopt a more "mai pen rai" demeanor about living and working within the Thai system/non-system.

Horse hockey! Thais get just as pissed off as anyone and they have less patience than most folks I encounter. Mai Be Rai is just an excuse to screw off and not do the job right.

Bull Puckey!! Thais get just as pissed off as anyone and they have less patience than most folks. Granted, but more of them keep it inside or under check compared to the flaring-nostril farang. They have other, less openly demonstrable but more effective ways of hitting back at the system.

I know what you're talking about though--I see more Western-acting Thai in Bangkok who fit the stereotype of the stressed-out farang, and much less upcountry.

[smartecosse]

45 minutes b4 the flight to check in?

maybe you should have got there a lot earlier........................

[Amir]

Horse hockey! Thais get just as pissed off as anyone and they have less patience than most folks I encounter. Mai Be Rai is just an excuse to screw off and not do the job right.

I agree 1000%.

ok, we are not at home and have to adapt a lot and respect their "traditions and behaviors". But when you are at an international airport where 80% of the customer are foreigner, they have to adapt too. Maybe not as much as we have but still...

Evolution is to make things easier and better... and this count also for traditions and/or behavior.

Don't say everytime: Mai pe rai" is Thai and you have to live with it. Sometimes people should accept that they are wrong or that they don't know. This is a way of respect.

[ovenman]

Booked on Air Asia to Yangon at 07:15.

Enter passport control a few minutes before 06:30

Astonished at the number of people in queues.

(the larger hall more to the left side,

I did not know there were two)

Maybe 2000 people. 2 counters not operating.

Sounds like you left yourself with too little time to go through passport control and get to the departure gate. 45 minutes is cutting it way too close if it is busy (as it was in this instance).

That said, I do understand your frustration with Thai outbound immigrations. It seems like they often take forever and a day to process each departing passenger. Scan the passport, check that the traveler is not on an overstay, stamp 'em out. It should take thirty seconds max per person.

[toptuan]

That said, I do understand your frustration with Thai outbound immigrations. It seems like they often take forever and a day to process each departing passenger. Scan the passport, check that the traveler is not on an overstay, stamp 'em out. It should take thirty seconds max per person.

Seems strange, but I notice a correlation: the less-significant a country (in relationship to the world community: economy, world influence, etc.) the more "officious" the bureaucrats.

I notice inbound immigration processing time at Hoh Chi Minh's airport unbelievably long. They held me for one hour on one trip because an intended "O" looked like a "0" on the visa given me by the Vietnam consulate in Thailand. After going through three levels of Army generals, they begrudgingly admitted me to the country.

Never, never been treated with such inane scrutiny over something so inconsequential in Japan, Western Europe, Canada or the USA.

When I travel in the third world (or second, whatever), I just lower my expectations for efficiency. Mai bpen rai.

Edited February 24, 2007 by toptuan

[Soju]

I can somewhat feel for the OP. I was stuck in some very long queues at Don Muang and was sweating it a few times thinking I would miss my flight. Sometimes you just pick a queue where the immigration officer just seems to take forever processing each passenger. I sometimes had to wait nearly an hour. Suvarnabhumi has been great without hardly any wait for me, however on my last trip out very recently there were 10 people in line in front of me. This was a first at Suvarnabhumi to have this number of people in line, but it went fairly quickly. I think the counting of stamps / days in passports is slowing things down considerably. Hopefully they will eliminate this policy or find some way to computerize it and speed things up. I always allowed for at least an hour for immigration at Don Muang, but a few times I cut it short at Suvarnbhumi but still had no problem. I think though in the future I'll allow for more time as the queues seem to be getting longer as time goes by.

[ovenman]

I think the counting of stamps / days in passports is slowing things down considerably.

That shouldn't be slowing down outbound immigrations, should it?

[pumpuiman]

Arrive 2 hours before international flights.

Does Air Asia have another policy concerning this?

I was under the impression that this was an internationally understood rule.

Didn't any of the people you complained to offer this as the reason for your trouble?

If Air Asia has a different policy I would understand your frustration, but if not, well.......

[ovenman]

Arrive 2 hours before international flights.

Does Air Asia have another policy concerning this?

For check-in, yes it's two hours before the flight but the OP had already checked-in. He simply needed to clear passport control (that's where his troubles began). I personally think 45 minutes post check-in is cutting it a bit close for an international flight. On the other hand, AirAsia closes check-in for all of their flights 45 minutes prior to departure. That would indicate that AirAsia considers 45 minutes to be an adequate amount of time. In that sense, he has a legit gripe...

Edited February 24, 2007 by ovenman

[smartecosse]

you need to remeber that its never the ops fault

[toptuan]

Arrive 2 hours before international flights.

Does Air Asia have another policy concerning this?

For check-in, yes it's two hours before the flight but the OP had already checked-in. He simply needed to clear passport control (that's where his troubles began). I personally think 45 minutes post check-in is cutting it a bit close for an international flight. On the other hand, AirAsia closes check-in for all of their flights 45 minutes prior to departure. That would indicate that AirAsia considers 45 minutes to be an adequate amount of time. In that sense, he has a legit gripe...

Well, well, then Air Asia is wrong, isn't it?

If the OP had checked in at the required two hours prior to flight, that means he had to have stood in line for one hour and fifteen minutes at check in, right? Did he? How many check-in lines are really that long?

Would the d#mned OP please jump in and settle this??? We wanna know whether to hang you or laud you.

Edited February 24, 2007 by toptuan

[samtam]

Arrive 2 hours before international flights.

Does Air Asia have another policy concerning this?

For check-in, yes it's two hours before the flight but the OP had already checked-in. He simply needed to clear passport control (that's where his troubles began). I personally think 45 minutes post check-in is cutting it a bit close for an international flight. On the other hand, AirAsia closes check-in for all of their flights 45 minutes prior to departure. That would indicate that AirAsia considers 45 minutes to be an adequate amount of time. In that sense, he has a legit gripe...

I believe this is standard - 45 minutes after check in, was the advice given to me by Singapore Airlines on Thursday. I allowed about 1 1/2 hours and sailed through immigration which was quite empty. The joys of Soowanna awaited. Sod's law. But I think you should always anticipate the worst case scenario. If you cut if fine there's a risk.

[kalaminsa]

For check-in, yes it's two hours before the flight but the OP had already checked-in. He simply needed to clear passport control (that's where his troubles began). I personally think 45 minutes post check-in is cutting it a bit close for an international flight. On the other hand, AirAsia closes check-in for all of their flights 45 minutes prior to departure. That would indicate that AirAsia considers 45 minutes to be an adequate amount of time. In that sense, he has a legit gripe...

I interpret that as there is NO chance of catching the flight if checking in 45 minutes before departure.

They would not close if there was still a possibility.

[Soju]

I think the counting of stamps / days in passports is slowing things down considerably.

That shouldn't be slowing down outbound immigrations, should it?

Well, on my last trip out they glanced through my passport and then seemed to be doing some calculation. I'm guessing that they keep a running tally and then add on the days you were just in Thailand to be sure you haven't gone over the 90 days in 6 months. So I think they are doing it on entering and on exiting, though the time spent at the immigration booth on exit is certainly less than it is on entering.

[ovenman]

I think the counting of stamps / days in passports is slowing things down considerably.

That shouldn't be slowing down outbound immigrations, should it?

Well, on my last trip out they glanced through my passport and then seemed to be doing some calculation. I'm guessing that they keep a running tally and then add on the days you were just in Thailand to be sure you haven't gone over the 90 days in 6 months. So I think they are doing it on entering and on exiting, though the time spent at the immigration booth on exit is certainly less than it is on entering.

If that's the case, wonder what happens if you have exceeded the 90 days?

[Sophon]

I think the counting of stamps / days in passports is slowing things down considerably.

That shouldn't be slowing down outbound immigrations, should it?

Well, on my last trip out they glanced through my passport and then seemed to be doing some calculation. I'm guessing that they keep a running tally and then add on the days you were just in Thailand to be sure you haven't gone over the 90 days in 6 months. So I think they are doing it on entering and on exiting, though the time spent at the immigration booth on exit is certainly less than it is on entering.

That doesn't really make sense. They do the calculation when you enter Thailand, and your "allowed to stay in Thailand until" stamp would be adjusted to make sure you don't stay more than 90 days on visa exempt entries in any 6 month period. So all they need to check when you leave is whether you have overstayed.

Sophon

[dwwin]

I was then reminded of Eleanor Roosevelt's famous line,

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

That's not anybody's famous line but a prayer.

[Johpa]

Never missed a flight before, ever.

here's how you can do it.

Immigration incompetence combined with carrier too cheap to make announcements..

...<rant deleted>....

The only incompetent person in your story is yourself. You either are an inexperienced traveller ( a likelihood as you have never missed a flight before) or you feel your time is somehow worth more than the time of others and thus feel that the Red Sea should part for you whenever you find yourself behind schedule.

You need to stop, take a deep breath, reflect, and accept personal responsibility for what happened by trying to cut things a little too close timewise. And change your name to Mark Lame.

[thai_narak]

simple, you are late... you should be at the airport at least 2 hours before the flight.

but you're not alone, i missed the flight to dallas 6 years ago at don muang airport (united airlines) since i also arrived 45 minutes before the flight. bad luck for me since i have to check-in in the TG counters at terminal 1 and not in the UA counter in terminal 2 which means i have to join the line for all TG flights. so i missed it... but i did not complain like you since i knew it was my fault.

[Krub]

I think the OP was cutting it late BUT the photo shows an abnormal number of people in the queues for departure.

Each line could easily take between 30 and 5 minutues to clear depending on the diligence of the immigration officer.

Good info to keep in mind if you have an early morning flight an cannot use the premium class immigration counters given to Thai Airways passengers.

Get to the airport early especially if you fly AirAsia (one flight a day) with no back-up solutions

[mark lamai]

look here smarty boys,

i checked in in plenty of time,

please read and comprehend what was said,

and 45 mins should be heaps to get your passport stamped and walk to a gate,

it always has been anywhere else.

but being stuck in what it seems is a daily occurrence,

the airport makes no effort to fix it or help some who are running late.

it is simply incompetence,

mai pen rai is no excuse,

thai wants to be an international hub, what a joke.