British lawmakers instruct May to demand EU reopen Brexitdeal; EU says 'No'

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

You're missing something

Shall I explain?

or would that be arrogant?

Glad to see your SoH has returned????

[Grouse]

So, K Gravy, this is for you

 

As you rightly point out, the referendum consisted of a simple yes/no answer to the question shown.

 

I believe you voted to leave the EU as opposed to remaining a member of the EU

 

As long as we do not remain a member of the EU, the referendum result is respected.

 

Norway is not a member of the EU. If we have a a new relationship with the EU, similar to, but not identical to the relationship that Norway has the referendum is still respected.

 

I would like a full customs agreement as that would avoid any border issues for Ireland and would avoid problems for major manufacturers

 

I would also like some form of single market so that we can be in the EEA. Probably not EFTA. I like free movement but this can be via limitations due to overcrowding. That would allow Scotland free movement as they wish.

 

OK now?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Exactly that, to avoid a the back stop, but was not the back stop a customs union by another name that was intended to be temporary, and the argument, temporary could be indefinite.

 

So now now TM suggested that we could stay in the CU, does she not realize what baggage comes with a CU, all the rules and regulations? we certainly could not enter into free trade agreement with any other country.

 

It will be a soft Brexit, where we still have to make payments to the EU, abide by the rules, and hve no say...

 

We would be better off cancelling Brexit. 

What CU rules in particular cause you concern? Looks like a good solution to me.

[talahtnut]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

MPs, including the PM have other duties besides attending to the planless Brexit you voted for.

 

Not least amongst which are the security and prosperity of the nation.

 

And, though it seems not to matter to you, representing the whole of their constituents/nation.

The UK gov. has never been able to plan anything successfully,

but are world class experts in plotting and treachery.

Security of the nation, is involvement in US conflicts and

stupidly annoying Russia.

Prosperity of the nation, means prosperity for the moneyed

class and increasing poverty for the poor.

Representation, is a fraud, constructed by elites.

The day after the Brexit referendum, its downfall was plotted

in Brussels.  IMHO you need not worry about the effects of

Brexit, it will be more like a damp squib.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So, K Gravy, this is for you

 

As you rightly point out, the referendum consisted of a simple yes/no answer to the question shown.

 

I believe you voted to leave the EU as opposed to remaining a member of the EU

 

As long as we do not remain a member of the EU, the referendum result is respected.

 

Norway is not a member of the EU. If we have a a new relationship with the EU, similar to, but not identical to the relationship that Norway has the referendum is still respected.

 

I would like a full customs agreement as that would avoid any border issues for Ireland and would avoid problems for major manufacturers

 

I would also like some form of single market so that we can be in the EEA. Probably not EFTA. I like free movement but this can be via limitations due to overcrowding. That would allow Scotland free movement as they wish.

 

OK now?

Yes you have been on the sauce????

I couldn't reply earlier as I am multi tasking.????

 

Now I know what your beliefs are. You shouldn't have bothered sending me the information, as I already know from debating with you for the last 3 years.

 

I thought you were moving to Europe anyway?

 

The border issue with N. Ireland is just an attempt to stop Brexit. The Irish are belong used by the EU.

 

But thanks for your contribution, genuine or not!

 

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes you have been on the sauce????

I couldn't reply earlier as I am multi tasking.????

 

Now I know what your beliefs are. You shouldn't have bothered sending me the information, as I already know from debating with you for the last 3 years.

 

I thought you were moving to Europe anyway?

 

The border issue with N. Ireland is just an attempt to stop Brexit. The Irish are belong used by the EU.

 

But thanks for your contribution, genuine or not!

 

Multitasking is for women and computers

 

I was hoping for a rational response. Never mind. I guess you like other Brexiters are waiting to be told how to respond.

 

I thought you might have known or heard of someone affected by The Troubles. Personally, I wouldn't risk. Just stay in a CU.

 

I do plan to retire to Denmark if I survive that long  ????????. I note the Danish flag is almost "the opposite" of the England flag how cool is that!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dannebrog

[melvinmelvin]

Ms Wallstrom, Swedish minister of foreign affairs

says in an interview today in the Swedish msm. dn.se:

 

Brexit; very badly handled, will not benefit anyone.

 

 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Ms Wallstrom, Swedish minister of foreign affairs

says in an interview today in the Swedish msm. dn.se:

 

Brexit; very badly handled, will not benefit anyone.

 

 

Wise man! Does he want a job? We have 630 vacancies

[melvinmelvin]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Wise man! Does he want a job? We have 630 vacancies

she

 

Scandinavians don't normally emit relatively strong statements like that,

she is likely quite frustrated.

 

 

[natway09]

U gotta love the Brits,,,,,,, we had a vote, so go & tell the EU the they better listen,

Who do they think they are ????

[melvinmelvin]

35 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Multitasking is for women and computers

 

I was hoping for a rational response. Never mind. I guess you like other Brexiters are waiting to be told how to respond.

 

I thought you might have known or heard of someone affected by The Troubles. Personally, I wouldn't risk. Just stay in a CU.

 

I do plan to retire to Denmark if I survive that long  ????????. I note the Danish flag is almost "the opposite" of the England flag how cool is that!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dannebrog

Denmark, an excellent choice.

Set your eyes on any specific areas?

 

 

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

The disorientation of the UK is terrifying. Everyone knows what they do not want. But no one knows what they want. With all respect, there is women's football 1000 times more exciting and goal-oriented.

 

 You are so wrong,we certainly did know. And unlike 1975 when we were deceived by the politicians, come 2016 we had the advantage of social media and google search engine, to find out the FACTS. 

And then the British people, used their newly acquired knowledge to vote in the largest vote that this country has ever had, to exit that flea pit called the E.u.

 Unfortunately those selfish babies who voted otherwise, have since tried their hardiest to undermine the Democratic people’s vote. All with the assistance of Remainer May.

 

 

 

 

[JAG]

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...British lawmakers on Tuesday instructed Prime Minister Theresa May to demand that Brussels replace the Irish border arrangement known as the "backstop", in a last-ditch attempt to renegotiate an exit treaty that the European Union says it will not change..."

 

Why would the EU re-open the negotiations? How is it in their benefit? And what will the UK do if the EU says "No!"; will you leave then?

 

Bloody hell, UK, you said that you were going to leave, so leave already. In my view leaving the EU is a terrible policy, one of the worst public policy decisions I have seen in my lifetime, but you said you were going to go, so go. Suffer the consequences and go. Pay the price and go.

 

Stop whingeing and go.

 

Just go.

 

Many of us agree.

 

Unfortunately we have arrived at a situation where our Parliament, and government, having been instructed by a referendum, (which they said they would honour) and having stood for and been elected, (both the Conservative and Labour parties) in a subsequent general election, on party manifestos which insisted that they would honour the referendum decision, are now doing everything they can to ensure that the UK doesn't leave.

 

[Snow Leopard]

Backstop or no Backstop. Who cares. Let's just get the hell out. Fed up with it. If I were the government I would start assembling a council of quality business people to get free trade agreements negotiated with as many countries as possible and in place as soon as possible.  The EU stuff will take care of itself. 

[Grouse]

52 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

she

 

Scandinavians don't normally emit relatively strong statements like that,

she is likely quite frustrated.

 

 

Now's your chance big Mel. 

[Grouse]

55 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Listen "Brains Trust", cut the unpleasant BS. You choose your own representative. Presumably demographic D class in welfare housing with exactly the same opinions as you.

 

I thought Cooper did a great job.

BTW, the first paragraph in Nontabury's attachment is untrue and therefore libellous.

 

I don't know what TVF policy on libel is?

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Denmark, an excellent choice.

Set your eyes on any specific areas?

 

 

I used to live in Rungsted, probably Kobenhavn N

[nausea]

Just do it and stop faffing around. If it turns into a mess I guess it will destroy the Conservative party. People are very unforgiving when you hit them in their pockets. Yeah, a UK led by Corbyn, now that's an attractive prospect. Not that I care, looking on from a distance, and I doubt the pound can fall much lower. I think all the worst case scenarios have alread been factored in. How a currency can lose 20% or more of its value on a whim is beyond me. Is there no inherent strength in Sterling, are we just faff and illusion. Thinking of Sun Tzu, alienating your nearest major market is probably not a good idea, logistically speaking. Still, I'm just a pleb, what do I know. I'll hesitate one guess - prominent Brexiteers won't lose financially by an exit, and prominent Remainers will.

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I used to live in Rungsted, probably Kobenhavn N

Copenhagen N, Eastern side, very very nice all the way up to sound between S and DK.

 

 

[metisdead]

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Grouse]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland–European_Union_relations

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland–European_Union_relations

So you see we can leave in anon damaging way! Why not?

 

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

 

Switzerland and Norway do OK!

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Copenhagen N, Eastern side, very very nice all the way up to sound between S and DK.

 

 

I may smoke a Hamlet at the prospect. I already have a Faxe beer but may be a Kronborg would be more appropriate? Elsinore, here I come! To be or not to be....

[talahtnut]

35 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I may smoke a Hamlet at the prospect. I already have a Faxe beer but may be a Kronborg would be more appropriate? Elsinore, here I come! To be or not to be....

Or grunt and sweat under a weary life in the UK.

Good move Grouse, the UK is finished for me too.

[Grouse]

German minister lays it out crystal clear

 

 

Dr Strangelove rechtig?

[tomacht8]

6 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Some of the world's most prosperous nations do NOT belong to the EU. Actually, MOST do not belong to the EU so why is everyone believing the litany of lies that predicts doom and death by starvation if the UK leaves with no deal and puts itself in the same position as the rest of the world? 

 

Should the UK manage to extricate itself from this corrupt hegemony the member nations will have a big black hole of previous export to fill, does anyone believe that French farmers or German Auto makers won't be scrambling to sell to the UK still? If the EU says "no" to them, the "gilets jaune" party will look like a Sunday School outing compared to the anger of farmers, car makers etc if prevented from exporting to the UK.

 

Juncker may carry on getting pissed out of his head, but nothing he does will stop political carnage after a hard brexit if exports to the UK cannot continue. Member states need us as much as we need them.

 

Partly you are right.

1. Trade between the EU and the UK will not totally collapse. It only becomes more expensive for all consumers. The extra bureaucracy also wants to be paid. 

2. Have you ever heard of economies of scale and cost degression effects of mass production?

3. Tell me one country that is not involved in any trade agreement.

4. Since it does not work with the EU, the UK should first practice a bit to conclude a trade contract. Maybe first with Nigeria. With a bit of money under the table you can achieve something.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

What CU rules in particular cause you concern? Looks like a good solution to me.

Hard to get s response on this key point

 

Guess we have to wait for a Brexiter leader to state what the stock response is to be.....

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Hard to get s response on this key point

 

Guess we have to wait for a Brexiter leader to state what the stock response is to be.....

But the customs union has many downsides that have not attracted much media coverage.While the loss of independent trade and regulatory policy have been discussed – and these are important – I will focus on some areas that have been less in the public domain.

 

First, almost nobody – not even Norway or Switzerland – is in a customs union with the EU. Turkey is, but its situation is so skewed against it that the country is seeking to renegotiate. Turkey, of course, entered its customs arrangement as a stepping stone to full membership. We are heading in the opposite direction. Tariffs, quotas, trade agreements – these are all important parts of our economic policy that would no longer be decided by those we elect in this country.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/22/customs-union-trade-policies-steel-garment-imports-brexit

[puipuitom]

Why any EU negotiator will have any confidence, a new agreement would lead to an enthusiastic House of Commons when concluded ? Remind, THIS amendment was accepted with 318 for and 301 against.

Just 60 days and British beef will be 12,5% more expensive into the EU, British personal cars: + 10 % ( bye-bye Nissin in Sunderland etc ), all foods from the U.K. will be considered from outside, so every importer has to treat this as being the manufacturer inside the EU = a LOT of  D O C U M E N T A T I O N to show sufficient precautions are made to prove food safety enough, as FSA is no longer - by law - accepted. etc.  

The problem is, too many British still live in the 20's and 30's of the British Empire.

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

What CU rules in particular cause you concern? Looks like a good solution to me.

I have no problem with the CU other than we might as well stay in the EU with all the benefits.