British lawmakers instruct May to demand EU reopen Brexitdeal; EU says 'No'

[Laughing Gravy]

17 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

Not sure in Thailand but I know a lot that live in Europe that were pro Brexit and look at them now... worried.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/31/britons-living-in-eu-call-on-may-to-secure-healthcare-for-pensioners?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Send them back to the cold and let the NHS take care of them. If the British want to make foreigners unwelcoming then I have no sympathy for British immigrants.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I tend to take the Guardian with a  pinch of salt. I also ensure I have my own Health Insurance. But May has already said that EU citizens in the UK will get Free N+HS care. So what is wrong with reciprocating?

 

"If the British want to make foreigners unwelcoming then I have no sympathy for British immigrants".

 

This is simply untrue and shows a total lack of understanding. Its not about making foreigners unwelcoming its about controlling and getting the right ones in. I find it hilarious that in a Thai Forum where people either retire or work here, have to jump through hoops and  show lots of evidence of income, then start saying about unwelcoming foreigners.

 

The Brexit vote was much more about controlling immigration as it has been mentioned here countless times. Please read the past threads and you would see that.

 

[JAG]

On 1/31/2019 at 3:15 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

I tend to take the Guardian with a  pinch of salt. I also ensure I have my own Health Insurance. But May has already said that EU citizens in the UK will get Free N+HS care. So what is wrong with reciprocating?

 

"If the British want to make foreigners unwelcoming then I have no sympathy for British immigrants".

 

This is simply untrue and shows a total lack of understanding. Its not about making foreigners unwelcoming its about controlling and getting the right ones in. I find it hilarious that in a Thai Forum where people either retire or work here, have to jump through hoops and  show lots of evidence of income, then start saying about unwelcoming foreigners.

 

The Brexit vote was much more about controlling immigration as it has been mentioned here countless times. Please read the past threads and you would see that.

 

Laughing Gravy: it is so much more agreeable and convenient to ignore the long running and multifaceted debate over why The UK should leave ( and let's not forget now voted to leave, and fought a general election in which both major parties endorsed leaving). The referendum result was I believe largely because the political class have ignored that debate, and popular opinion for so long - since John Major's shenanigans over the Mastricht treaty, if not before. No, t'is better to fix upon the question of immigration, and the views (objectionable as some are) of the small number of leave supporters for whom it is the driving force.

 

Accusing "leavers" of being racists, because they don't wish to see their country being steadily subsumed into a federal European State, driven by political, legislative, fiscal and judicial systems which are foreign to ours, and without any realistic expectations or effective means of being represented in such a state, is something of a "trump card" (unfortunate term nowadays!) designed to shut down the debate.

 

They do not want those views aired - so they call us racists.

[talahtnut]

The UK gov. and civil service support the rich and not

the poor, they want Remain.

The UK gov. is in collaboration with the news media,

so as you might expect, Brexit is portrayed as a disaster.

Could the gov. possibly be trying to control your thoughts,

as it has been doing for hundreds of years, with lies?

Why is that, every time there is a vote, we get poorer?

Democracy in UK is a sham. The system has defrauded

the working class.

 

 

 

 

[JAG]

41 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

The UK gov. and civil service support the rich and not

the poor, they want Remain.

The UK gov. is in collaboration with the news media,

so as you might expect, Brexit is portrayed as a disaster.

Could the gov. possibly be trying to control your thoughts,

as it has been doing for hundreds of years, with lies?

Why is that, every time there is a vote, we get poorer?

Democracy in UK is a sham. The system has defrauded

the working class.

 

 

 

 

2

Yes and no, I think that our democracy has, basically, served the people of the UK relatively well over the last century or so. It has allowed the country to develop, broadly in line with the wishes of the majority, avoid the upheavals and political extremism of right and left which plagued Europe, and usually resulted in a government broadly in line with the views of the people when they elected it.

 

With Brexit however, it is failing us. You are right that there is a collusion (you may call it a coincidence of views) between big business (the wealthy), the political classes and much of the media, which regard it as undesirable, and have decided to essentially ignore and refuse the decision of the voting population, as expressed both in the referendum and the subsequent general election. That is certainly a fraud and deceit being perpetuated, on everyone, not just the working class. They have decided that the European project, for which they have long held enthusiasm, and for long been reluctant to allow any real debate, is too important to be decided by the people. That is why we are in the mess we are in at the moment. That is why no real effort has been made to arrange our departure over the nearly two years since Article 50 was implemented; that is why, if they succeed in avoiding any real "Brexit", as seems to be their intention, the implications, in terms of public confidence and trust in our democracy will be massive. It will make arguments such as mine, against the views which you advance, much, much more untenable.

 

The political history of British involvement in Europe, back as far as the days of the organist Heath, and on through Major's (Maastricht), Blair's and Brown's (Lisbon Treaty) administrations has been one of a cosy consensus between business, political classes and much of the media (particularly the BBC) to the effect that they know best, and the people need not be listened to. Brexit has challenged that consensus, to paraphrase: "They don't like it up 'em!"

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

Read a small piece on Brexit in today's Bangkok Post;

 

German minister of justice; crystal clear, Backstop needed, can not be fiddled,

the Backstop is EU's guarantee against a border on the island (and Troubles?)

 

May will have a rough trip to Brussels I think.

 

 

[JAG]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

The UK gov. and civil service support the rich and not

the poor, they want Remain.

When the history of this whole sorry mess is eventually written, it will be very interesting to read a dispassionate account of The Civil Sevice's part in the whole business...

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, JAG said:

When the history of this whole sorry mess is eventually written, it will be very interesting to read a dispassionate account of The Civil Sevice's part in the whole business...

British CS or the EU CS? Or both? ????

[JAG]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

British CS or the EU CS? Or both? ????

Well, I suspect that our historian might just conclude that the EI CS were doing what they were expected, and directed to do - granted that the EU CS seems to have rather more of a role in formulating policy than their British counterparts! Our historian  may be forgiven for  suggesting that elements within the British CS were pursuing a, um, somewhat more independent agenda at times?

[evadgib]

Myths about Brexiters explained.

[talahtnut]

Even if you are a globalist, can you see why nationalists

are often full of seething resentment? Can you see why

people who feel a deep emotional attachment to their

country and want to preserve its sovereignty and culture,

are angry at a government that tells them that they are

wrong to do so?  We have mind control, not democracy.

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Even if you are a globalist, can you see why nationalists

are often full of seething resentment? Can you see why

people who feel a deep emotional attachment to their

country and want to preserve its sovereignty and culture,

are angry at a government that tells them that they are

wrong to do so?  We have mind control, not democracy.

No.

 

I cannot see why nationalists are  full of resentment.

 

I can concede that the Scots,Irish and Welsh would like to get rid of such an uninspiring lot..

 

But that,no doubt will  happen in the near future.

 

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Myths about Brexiters explained.

Fine words.

 

A pity the average Brexiter isn't bright enough to understand them.

[Basil B]

British lawmakers instruct May to demand EU reopen Brexitdeal; EU says 'No'

 

Demand??? 

 

EU says 'No' (Ei, Ez, Não, Ne, Nee, Nei, Nein, Nej, Nej, Nem, ni, ní hea, nil, Nie, nie, No, Non, Minime, nun, Nu, O’hi).
 

Renegotiate? we have a better chance of winning Eurovision.

[dick dasterdly]

49 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Myths about Brexiters explained.

The link has disappeared?

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

British lawmakers instruct May to demand EU reopen Brexitdeal; EU says 'No'

 

Demand??? 

 

EU says 'No' (Ei, Ez, Não, Ne, Nee, Nei, Nein, Nej, Nej, Nem, ni, ní hea, nil, Nie, nie, No, Non, Minime, nun, Nu, O’hi).
 

Renegotiate? we have a better chance of winning Eurovision.

Which is why we're all waiting to see what MPs do next.....

 

Having said this, I suspect the eu will offer more 'assurances' in the hope that this will appease MPs.

 

It may work, unless opinion polls show that the electorate aren't falling for this scam ????.

[talahtnut]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Fine words.

 

A pity the average Brexiter isn't bright enough to understand them.

 Cognitive bias, wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, of course, we all know that is not you..just saying.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, talahtnut said:

The UK gov. and civil service support the rich and not

the poor, they want Remain.

The UK gov. is in collaboration with the news media,

so as you might expect, Brexit is portrayed as a disaster.

Could the gov. possibly be trying to control your thoughts,

as it has been doing for hundreds of years, with lies?

Why is that, every time there is a vote, we get poorer?

Democracy in UK is a sham. The system has defrauded

the working class.

 

 

 

 

Brexit is about to screw over the working class.

 

Enjoy.

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

 Cognitive bias, wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, of course, we all know that is not you..just saying.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Superior education or intelligence indicate pretty much nothing when it comes to issues like this - as they are bound by their own 'spheres'.

 

The result of leaving the eu is largely unknown, but we can be fairly sure that ignoring the referendum result is not going to go down well with those in leave constituencies.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Which is why we're all waiting to see what MPs do next.....

 

Having said this, I suspect the eu will offer more 'assurances' in the hope that this will appease MPs.

 

It may work, unless opinion polls show that the electorate aren't falling for this scam ????.

The opinion polls are indeed indicating the electorate have ‘bubbled’ the scam.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-poll-predicts-swing-to-remain-in-second-brexit-vote/

[talahtnut]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexit is about to screw over the working class.

 

Enjoy.

The UK government have been screwing the working

class for many years.

Enjoy that.

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexit is about to screw over the working class.

 

Enjoy.

You may well be right, as it was one of the reasons I decided not to vote in the referendum. (i.e. I was pretty sure that politicians would get rid of the 'best' parts of the eu, that protected workers).

 

But the way this has been handled by politicians (on both sides) has made me annoyed enough to fully support leave.

[evadgib]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The link has disappeared?

Click on it

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Couldn't agree more.

 

Superior education or intelligence indicate pretty much nothing when it comes to issues like this - as they are bound by their own 'spheres'.

 

The result of leaving the eu is largely unknown, but we can be fairly sure that ignoring the referendum result is not going to go down well with those in leave constituencies.

The consequences of ignoring the referendum are totally unknown.

 

But when the last pro-leave march mustered less than 3000 while the last pro remain march mustered over 700,000 we can make an ‘educated guess’.

 

please forgive my reference to ‘educated’. I know it’s a sore point.

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The opinion polls are indeed indicating the electorate have ‘bubbled’ the scam.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-poll-predicts-swing-to-remain-in-second-brexit-vote/

If politicians were inclined to trust the poll, they would have already commissioned another referendum.

 

But they've (presumably) learned from the fiasco of pre-referendum polls.....

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Click on it

Its not shown in your post.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You may well be right, as it was one of the reasons I decided not to vote in the referendum. (i.e. I was pretty sure that politicians would get rid of the 'best' parts of the eu, that protected workers).

 

But the way this has been handled by politicians (on both sides) has made me annoyed enough to fully support leave.

So you support leave (with the guaranteed reduction of worker rights).

 

Perhaps you are hoping to gain from the continuing ability of the extremely wealthy and corporations to dodge taxes by avoiding the EU anti tax dodging legislation due out this year.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But when the last pro-leave march mustered less than 3000 while the last pro remain march mustered over 700,000 we can make an ‘educated guess’.

Why are you peddling that myth again after it was debunked on at least two previous attempts?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

If politicians were inclined to trust the poll, they would have already commissioned another referendum.

 

But they've (presumably) learned from the fiasco of pre-referendum polls.....

The fat lady hasn’t sung yet.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Its not shown in your post.

Go back to the original (& click on the key word)????

[melvinmelvin]

When is the next regular GE in UK?