BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Huge change to income method actually, from gross at home to net into a Thai bank, plus bank method just donate 400 K to your bank for ever!     But hey your OK! Tell us how will you be sure 65k shows up in your bank every month as ITF and how will you go if you make one miscalculation. Bite your tongue and use an agent. Remember that’s the objective .

 

Yes, money in the bank is just going to waste, that is money we could be spending on booze and girls!

[JackThompson]

56 minutes ago, Ahab said:

This will effect the people that are scamming the system, by using agents and other dodgy means.

Agents get seasoning-skipped.  The new rules only change the seasoning, so will not affect those obtaining extensions by "dodgy means" - other than ensuring that only immigration's agent-partners can provide the dodgy-service.

 

14 minutes ago, ravip said:

The Thai's are intelligent enough to recognize these foreigners who would be of no use to TH on the long run, hence the tightening of the rules. 

The rules will increase the use of agents, increasing corruption, and will drive away only "good guys" who one might want as neighbors.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

But every other embassy using the same method of verification could? Naïve, to say the least.

 

 

I am not disputing this, but:

1. How do you know which of the 75 embassies in Thailand use the same method of verification as the BE?

2. How do you know that all of the embassies that do use the same method of verification as the BE are continuing to produce their letters and are showing no sign of stopping them?

3. How long did it take you (or your staff) to canvas all 75 embassies to collect and confirm the data?

Again, I am not disputing your facts, but without clear answers to the above question, I consider them suspect.

[Olmate]

19 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I will transfer the money from my USA bank into my Thai bank account each and every month (like I have done for the last two years). One miscalculation and I don't have money to live on for that month, which actually provides a wonderful incentive to remember to transfer the money. Worst case I start the process over with a non-immigrant O visa (multiple entry) and end up having to leave the country every 90 days, which also happens to be another great incentive not to make a miscalculation and transfer the money each and every month.

 

This stuff does not take an advanced degree in science and math to pull off.

You,ve got it all covered then, guessing many will struggle with the logistics and the added costs. As to doing border runs as a backstop that certainly won’t require a degree!

[Joe Mcseismic]

52 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Is that what this is all about, scoring points on an expat forum? Sad. Get a life.

Nothing to do with "points" and everything to do with calling out misinformation. About pointing out people who can't tell the difference between facts and opinions. There is enough BS on this forum without you adding to it.

PS. I have a wonderful life thanks.

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Huge change to income method actually, from gross at home to net into a Thai bank, plus bank method just donate 400 K to your bank for ever!     But hey your OK! Tell us how will you be sure 65k shows up in your bank every month as ITF and how will you go if you make one miscalculation. Bite your tongue and use an agent. Remember that’s the objective .

4

 

Yes, it is a big negative for people with a lot of expenses in their home county, but for most everyone that qualified previously, it should not be. Some extra bank fees.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Yes, it is a big negative for people with a lot of expenses in their home county, but for most everyone that qualified previously, it should not be. Some extra bank fees.

Strange logic there ! What’s previously got to do with this year 

[sumrit]

41 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Huge change to income method actually, from gross at home to net into a Thai bank, plus bank method just donate 400 K to your bank for ever!     But hey your OK! Tell us how will you be sure 65k shows up in your bank every month as ITF and how will you go if you make one miscalculation. Bite your tongue and use an agent. Remember that’s the objective .

My annual pension (increase) statements always show the gross payments. If TI want proof of income source those (gross) statements are what they need to see. 

 

If your net income falls slightly below 65k, just add the necessary each month to cover the difference then, if necessary, (periodically) send your excess surplice in your Thai bank back to your home bank account to re-use. 

 

Every month I send money to Thailand via Transferwise and get a statement showing which partner bank they've used. If it;s not the Bangkok Bank I'll simply get an advice receipt from the bank which will show it originated from overseas. 

 

Leaving at least 400k baht in a Thai bank permanently will, financially, not be an option for a lot of expats. For them, the obvious change will be to use the monthly income method instead.

[Yellowtail]

27 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Strange logic there ! What’s previously got to do with this year 

What's strange about it?

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

But every other embassy using the same method of verification could? Naïve, to say the least.

That's because after the biggest 3 Embassies pulled out, TI appear to have changed their minds, or the messages sunk in and they only request certification in the orders. The Embassies never even considered changing their methods of issuing Income letters because they couldn't comply with TI's request to 'verify' the incomes.

 

Had the orders stated ' a certification certified and verified by the Embassy/Consulate' we'd by now see every Embassy withdraw the service.

[MikeN]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:02 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

None of that is evidence. They are just your opinions.

I know you have no evidence because the BE still stands by their original statement as to why they stopped the letters. They have issued no new statement.

You think the other three embassies followed suit because they were lazy, too, or, is it more likely that none of them could do what TI requested?

 

Your so-called "evidence" is a joke.

In the case of the Australian embassy, it is not just Statutory Declarations for income here in Thailand that have stopped, but all Stat Decs for certifying your address, etc, and also in some other countries too. I don’t know if this is because of a change in the law in Australia, or just an administrative decision by Foreign Affairs, but embassy websites I checked at random say that Stat Decs are for use in Australia, or on Australian issued forms.

 From the Aus embassy in NZ :

Notarial Services are provided by the High Commission (Wellington) or Consulate-General (Auckland), where the documents are of Australian origin, or are for use in Australia

 

 The Tokyo embassy website:

Notarial services are only available where the documents are Australian in origin, or intended for use in Australia. Ensure you provide correct written instructions to our staff. Fees apply.

 

And of course the BKK embassy:

Please note that Australian consular or diplomatic officers are only permitted to witness an Australian Statutory Declaration being made for use in Australia by an Australian entity.

 

So for us Aussies at least, it’s not just here in Thailand that the changes apply, and it’s probably just coincidence that it happened around the same time as other embassies decided not to certify income statements for whatever reason.

 

[Olmate]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What's strange about it?

Immigration don,t care about last year! Last year gross 65k home income qualified you....this year 65k net in Thai bank plus this year say 15k  t/f fees. Can you see the price rise there?

[SweetStickyRice]

Good guys in. Bad guys out. I know this is bad news for some good guys that don't have that type of money to put aside for an extended period of time, or don't have that type of money at all. I've always told people if they wanted to come and live here for long term, to always have something to go back to back home. Set yourself up in a way where you won't have nothing, otherwise don't come here. If you want to come here and teach (long term), stay home, attend university, get the proper qualifications and get a decent teaching job at a decent international school with decent pay and you can live a normal life. There is no use coming here only to return back where you came from poorer than how you arrived. Immigration laws / conditions are dynamic, even in the so called "first world" countries (which are even more stringent). As much as I feel sorry for the good guys that don't have that sort of money, I feel happy as well that slowly but surely Thailand will eradicate all the old men sitting on bar stools with their bellies hanging out, scraping up Baht just to make ends meet who ran away from families / problems back home and dragged their problems with them to Thailand. It's pretty simple people, Thailand is slowly getting in there with the rest of the world and enforcing laws which the bad guys took advantage of for decades. You can poke a bear once and maybe get away with it, but if you keep poking him... 

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

Perjury must have been committed hundreds (maybe thousands) of times over the years with these affidavits,

Likely more often than on 'Judge Judy'......

[indepth]

On 2/19/2019 at 7:15 PM, elviajero said:

I think the embassy letter/affidavit option will eventually go leaving only transfers into the country as the only way to prove income, or 800K.

Pure assumption .Your thoughts are baseless . Lets talk facts, just the facts.

[Olmate]

3 minutes ago, indepth said:

Pure assumption .Your thoughts are baseless . Lets talk facts, just the facts.

He did say I think! Is there a problem with saying that now, and I think he probably based that on some facts... some discussions...some logical observations....etc really?

[indepth]

48 minutes ago, MikeN said:

In the case of the Australian embassy, it is not just Statutory Declarations for income here in Thailand that have stopped, but all Stat Decs for certifying your address, etc, and also in some other countries too. I don’t know if this is because of a change in the law in Australia, or just an administrative decision by Foreign Affairs, but embassy websites I checked at random say that Stat Decs are for use in Australia, or on Australian issued forms.

 From the Aus embassy in NZ :

Notarial Services are provided by the High Commission (Wellington) or Consulate-General (Auckland), where the documents are of Australian origin, or are for use in Australia

 

 The Tokyo embassy website:

Notarial services are only available where the documents are Australian in origin, or intended for use in Australia. Ensure you provide correct written instructions to our staff. Fees apply.

 

And of course the BKK embassy:

Please note that Australian consular or diplomatic officers are only permitted to witness an Australian Statutory Declaration being made for use in Australia by an Australian entity.

 

So for us Aussies at least, it’s not just here in Thailand that the changes apply, and it’s probably just coincidence that it happened around the same time as other embassies decided not to certify income statements for whatever reason.

 

Things are getting repeated over and ;over and over. Noting new being posted. I posted about the Oz Stat Dec months ago in my thread,. "great news for Ozzies". Time for all for all threads about this matter to be stopped until there are new orders issued.

[indepth]

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

And the reality is that the Embassies probably don't give a stuff if the person is perjuring themselves to a foreign government; and the IO's processing the applications are happy as long as the letter/affidavit confirms the income. 

 

Perjury must have been committed hundreds (maybe thousands) of times over the years with these affidavits, and as far as I'm aware no one has ever been 'caught out' because no one checks. It's been a big loophole in the system that is closing/closed.

Wrong again. Perjury has never been committed "with these affidavits". I do wish people would do their research before posting their unfounded comments, opinions, they are not helpful.

[Olmate]

31 minutes ago, SweetStickyRice said:

Good guys in. Bad guys out. I know this is bad news for some good guys that don't have that type of money to put aside for an extended period of time, or don't have that type of money at all. I've always told people if they wanted to come and live here for long term, to always have something to go back to back home. Set yourself up in a way where you won't have nothing, otherwise don't come here. If you want to come here and teach (long term), stay home, attend university, get the proper qualifications and get a decent teaching job at a decent international school with decent pay and you can live a normal life. There is no use coming here only to return back where you came from poorer than how you arrived. Immigration laws / conditions are dynamic, even in the so called "first world" countries (which are even more stringent). As much as I feel sorry for the good guys that don't have that sort of money, I feel happy as well that slowly but surely Thailand will eradicate all the old men sitting on bar stools with their bellies hanging out, scraping up Baht just to make ends meet who ran away from families / problems back home and dragged their problems with them to Thailand. It's pretty simple people, Thailand is slowly getting in there with the rest of the world and enforcing laws which the bad guys took advantage of for decades. You can poke a bear once and maybe get away with it, but if you keep poking him... 

So after that expose on eradicating old men, how are you? OK and set for life? Are you a good guy or a bad guy?Bit early to tell? I,m sure your not retired either so really your views are worthless to this topic .

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, SweetStickyRice said:

Good guys in. Bad guys out. I know this is bad news for some good guys that don't have that type of money to put aside for an extended period of time, or don't have that type of money at all. I've always told people if they wanted to come and live here for long term, to always have something to go back to back home. Set yourself up in a way where you won't have nothing, otherwise don't come here. If you want to come here and teach (long term), stay home, attend university, get the proper qualifications and get a decent teaching job at a decent international school with decent pay and you can live a normal life. There is no use coming here only to return back where you came from poorer than how you arrived. Immigration laws / conditions are dynamic, even in the so called "first world" countries (which are even more stringent). As much as I feel sorry for the good guys that don't have that sort of money, I feel happy as well that slowly but surely Thailand will eradicate all the old men sitting on bar stools with their bellies hanging out, scraping up Baht just to make ends meet who ran away from families / problems back home and dragged their problems with them to Thailand. It's pretty simple people, Thailand is slowly getting in there with the rest of the world and enforcing laws which the bad guys took advantage of for decades. You can poke a bear once and maybe get away with it, but if you keep poking him... 

Whats wrong with "old men sitting on bar stools with their bellies hanging out"?

Are they hurting you in some way, or, are you just a judgmental snob?

[Tanoshi]

42 minutes ago, indepth said:

Pure assumption .Your thoughts are baseless . Lets talk facts, just the facts.

It's an assumption I agree with.

Wasn't it an assumption, based on logic, that Immigration would have to announce an alternative method of proving incomes deposited in a Thai bank when some of the Embassies stopped issuing income letters.

 

This whole scenario kicked off by TI becoming suspicious and requesting back up proof supporting incomes declared on Embassy letters.

There is nothing to prevent them continuing to request supporting documents in support of incomes declared via Embassy letters and they now have an approved alternative of Thai bank statements + bank letters as proof of income.

If they find that these declared Embassy incomes are not actually being transferred to meet their financial requirements, they could very easily just stop acceptance of Embassies letters and advise to use the alternative method.

A method that they can 'verify' themselves.

[SweetStickyRice]

Hello "Olmate" To reply to your questions and assumptions, I am just fine. Am I set for life? I can tell you that I'm very comfortable. Not nearly where I want to be, but I can put THB800k in the bank and leave it there all year round. No problem. Am I a good or a bad guy? That is none of your business. You've also assumed I'm not retired either, which is correct. I work/ed really hard to be where I am. If I wanted to, I probably could and live here very comfortably. And you are very incorrect to say my views is worthless on this topic. If I've touched a nerve, maybe you're just one of those who made the wrong decision in the past and it's going to come back and bite you now. What people fail to realise, is that they living in a foreign country, no matter how long anyone has been here. Do it the right way, and don't come here with nothing and expect everything to work out.

[SweetStickyRice]

Hello "Joe Mcseismic" Please do not get offended if you have a fat belly. Yes, I can be a judgemental snob sometimes, everyone can. Please try to understand the whole context. If you have a fat belly and have some kind of means to sustain yourself here, by all means, but if you are scraping Baht each month to make ends meet and don't have anything saved for a rainy day, you are or eventually will be a burden to the society. I will leave it at that. Thailand is just getting on with the program. Every country in the world has strict immigration regulations, although Thailand didn't enforce them for a long time, people took chances and now it blew up in their faces. Be prepared when you move and decide to live in a foreign country. That's all I'm saying.

[indepth]

36 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's an assumption I agree with.

Wasn't it an assumption, based on logic, that Immigration would have to announce an alternative method of proving incomes deposited in a Thai bank when some of the Embassies stopped issuing income letters.

 

This whole scenario kicked off by TI becoming suspicious and requesting back up proof supporting incomes declared on Embassy letters.

There is nothing to prevent them continuing to request supporting documents in support of incomes declared via Embassy letters and they now have an approved alternative of Thai bank statements + bank letters as proof of income.

If they find that these declared Embassy incomes are not actually being transferred to meet their financial requirements, they could very easily just stop acceptance of Embassies letters and advise to use the alternative method.

A method that they can 'verify' themselves.

" if they find, they could very easily, advise to use the alternative". I give up, cheers.

[rott]

2 hours ago, SweetStickyRice said:

 Thailand will eradicate all the old men sitting on bar stools with their bellies hanging out, scraping up Baht just to make ends meet who ran away from families / problems back home and dragged their problems with them to Thailand. It's pretty simple people, Thailand is slowly getting in there with the rest of the world and enforcing laws which the bad guys took advantage of for decades. You can poke a bear once and maybe get away with it, but if you keep poking him... 

Feel better for that?

 

1) What about those on bar stools without their bellies hanging out. I know several.

2) Who says they are all scraping to make ends meet? Pure conjecture and nastiness.

3) Who says they all live here, many are tourists.

4) Who says they all ran away from families/problems, who says they brought problems with them?

5) As of yet anybody enforcing new laws is doing it illegally.

 6) People coming and pouring money into the economy for decades, benefitting both individuals and the state are bad guys?

 

Better go and have a pot of tea and a digestive.

Edited February 21, 2019 by rott
Spelling

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Olmate said:

Immigration don,t care about last year! Last year gross 65k home income qualified you....this year 65k net in Thai bank plus this year say 15k  t/f fees. Can you see the price rise there?

I thought I was clear that I saw the difference between gross, global income and money transferred into Thailand, and that represented cost increase.

 

It is my position that for MOST people that qualified PREVIOUSLY (i. e. before the embassies discontinued issuing letters)  the increased cost should not be significant.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It is my position that for MOST people that qualified PREVIOUSLY (i. e. before the embassies discontinued issuing letters)  the increased cost should not be significant.

It's not just the costs but also the difficulty for certain expats.

 

Over the previous two years the baht has strengthened significantly against the major currencies, especially so for the British who in the uncertainty of any Brexit deal have seen there incomes already drop over 20% during this period.

Leaving that aside.

The difference between a gross income as in Embassy letters of where no tax has been deducted and that doesn't truly affect the income available to you and the nett incomes after tax, now forcibly having to be transferred to a Thai bank is probably around a further 10% decrease in income although it does truly indicate the income available, then the cost of 12 monthly transfers.

 

These factors are significant for many expats, sometimes being the difference between still meeting the requirements or now being just under and having to find an alternative method to stay in Thailand.

Some of these are married men with Thai families, previously settled here for years.

 

If Immigration allowed consideration of assets owned in Thailand obtained by the previous incomes these expats have pored into the economy, they'd qualify x 10 fold, unfortunately they don't.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Tanoshi

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, indepth said:

Wrong again. Perjury has never been committed "with these affidavits". I do wish people would do their research before posting their unfounded comments, opinions, they are not helpful.

I was using the language of the person I was replying to. 

 

The point being that hundreds (maybe thousands) of affidavits have been false statements; yet no one has been caught or prosecuted because neither the embassy or IO’s processing the applications care.

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, indepth said:

Wrong again. Perjury has never been committed "with these affidavits". I do wish people would do their research before posting their unfounded comments, opinions, they are not helpful.

For all the people who've knowingly used a false declaration to obtain an Embassy letter then presented to TI as truthful, you're right, they haven't committed perjury, they've committed fraud.

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I was using the language of the person I was replying to. 

 

The point being that hundreds (maybe thousands) of affidavits have been false statements; yet no one has been caught or prosecuted because neither the embassy or IO’s processing the applications care.

Which led TI to approach the Embassies because they were under the assumption the Embassies were verifying the declared incomes, then finding out the facts, requested the Embassies verify the incomes, which for legal reasons they can't,  and what followed is now history.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Tanoshi