Thailand should welcome retirees

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

posting your 90 days

It all depends on what immigration office you are posting your 90 day report to.

They don't all accept postal 90 day reports.

[CMNightRider]

4 hours ago, lkv said:

It will probably have little effect whatsoever, even if all of them left, since the number is insignificant compared to the tourist numbers. We are probably talking say 100,000 people?

 

Even at a rate of 10 to 1, they would compensate by 1 million extra tourists. And the golden goose is China now btw.

 

Or at least I am pretty confident that's how they see it.

 

But they won't lose all the retirees, only a part of them that won't make it for whatever reason (be it financial or choice). Which in turn gets compensated by milking the remaining ones for more.

Think about every foreigner that leaves, he or she will leave an empty apartment or condo.  Most tend to rent and they aren't living in 4k fan rooms either as one pompous poster suggested.  

 

The entire time I have lived in Thailand, I have never met an expat living in one of those 4k fan rooms.  Most live in nice condos.  I think this will be interesting to watch. 

 

As far as the Chinese tourist that visit Thailand, these people don't exactly look like quality tourists to me.  The Chinese tourists I ran into in Europe and the US, tend to be more sophisticated and had money to spend.  The ones I see in Chiang Mai, look and act as if they are straight out of the boonies.  They remind me of some sort of plague.   

 

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Absolute bar stool nonsense, they spend more than Western tourists

Only if you use an average.  This is as useless considering the "average income" of a nation's population, which very few actually earn.  A tiny few spending a lot (would be welcomed, regardless) and masses aided to visit with VOA discounts, spending almost "zero baht" on tour packages. 

 

Using the "number of tourists" and "average-spend / country" sales-points does not justify kicking out those who support smaller businesses that provide better incomes to Thais.  Even if the zero-baht package-tour types are deemed desirable, why remove the Westerners doing so much more good per-each?

Edited February 2, 2019 by JackThompson

[FritsSikkink]

31 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Only if you use an average.  This is as useless considering the "average income" of a nation's population, which very few actually earn.  A tiny few spending a lot (would be welcomed, regardless) and masses aided to visit with VOA discounts, spending almost "zero baht" on tour packages. 

 

Using the "number of tourists" and "average-spend / country" sales-points does not justify kicking out those who support smaller businesses that provide better incomes to Thais.  Even if the zero-baht package-tour types are deemed desirable, why remove the Westerners doing so much more good per-each?

The "zero-baht package-tours" are gone for quite a while already and you are greatly overestimating the Western spending. If they had so much money they could afford to get a proper visa without resorting to bribery.

Edited February 2, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[lkv]

.

Edited February 2, 2019 by lkv

[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

The "zero-baht package-tours" are gone for quite a while already

So those groups I saw following the guy on the flag who gawk and don't buy (whom the Thais despise) are gone, now?  Or they just tweaked the tours a bit, to satisfy someone in a position of power (maybe the buses stop at a store he is invested in, now).

 

52 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

and you are greatly overestimating the Western spending. If they had so much money they could afford to get a proper visa without resorting to bribery.

They don't need "so much money" to help.  Five Thai salaries worth of foreign-sourced capital spending is "not enough" to meet the current standard of required transfers.  We were never expected to "transfer" 65K Baht/mo every month - this is a new invention.

 

Most who "pay bribery" now do it to avoid the pointless hoops - not because they don't have the money.  Though that will be changing, since the goalposts have been moved.  Now, many more good folks, who could meet the former standard honestly, will be forced to the agents.

[FritsSikkink]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

So those groups I saw following the guy on the flag who gawk and don't buy (whom the Thais despise) are gone, now?  Or they just tweaked the tours a bit, to satisfy someone in a position of power (maybe the buses stop at a store he is invested in, now).

 

They don't need "so much money" to help.  Five Thai salaries worth of foreign-sourced capital spending is "not enough" to meet the current standard of required transfers.  We were never expected to "transfer" 65K Baht/mo every month - this is a new invention.

 

Most who "pay bribery" now do it to avoid the pointless hoops - not because they don't have the money.  Though that will be changing, since the goalposts have been moved.  Now, many more good folks, who could meet the former standard honestly, will be forced to the agents.

"Five Thai salaries worth of foreign-sourced capital spending"

Minimum Thai wage you mean. Thai's with a good job earn a lot more then the 65K the poor pensioners can't produce.

I see big Chinese groups on a daily basis and they spend loads of money, they don't drink Leo from the 7/11. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[farangx]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

True.  No amount of Chinese tourists even brings a single baht to them. 

 

Even in tourist-areas, 99% of them only spend where the Tour Bus has an "arrangement" for them to spend money - and sometimes 7/11 because there is one within walking-distance of the hotel - where their Tour Agency volume-bargained the management down to a pittance-per-room profit.

Missing out on what those Chinese tourists can bring in?  No good Jack, you obviously don't go out often so you see only what you saw. 

 

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

"Five Thai salaries worth of foreign-sourced capital spending"

Minimum Thai wage you mean. Thai's with a good job earn a lot more then the 65K the poor pensioners can't produce.

I see big Chinese groups on a daily basis and they spend loads of money, they don't drink Leo from the 7/11. 

They seemed to be eating lunch at 7/11, and shopping for makeup and other fine products, when I used to encounter them.  They were never to be seen in the sit-down restaurants that I and other Westerners frequented (you know, ones where the wait-staff receive "tips").

 

12 minutes ago, farangx said:

Missing out on what those Chinese tourists can bring in?  No good Jack, you obviously don't go out often so you see only what you saw.

Obviously, a few have a lot of money - how it works when your family were big communist-party (sic) folks.

The wife and I went out often.  I saw the streets full of boarded-up businesses where Western visitors used to spend their money, before immigration stopped them staying here.  I watched many get closed, and personally knew people who worked at them (restaurants, guest-houses, etc) - and always the same story, "The customers can't come any more because of immigration."

[Brunolem]

39 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

"Five Thai salaries worth of foreign-sourced capital spending"

Minimum Thai wage you mean. Thai's with a good job earn a lot more then the 65K the poor pensioners can't produce.

I see big Chinese groups on a daily basis and they spend loads of money, they don't drink Leo from the 7/11. 

And where would that be? 

Bangkok most probably. 

In Isaan, which is roughly 40% of the country, Thais don't make much more than 65,000 baht per month, and heavy spending Chinese are nowhere to be seen. 

Meanwhile, Western retirees are everywhere, more and more of them. 

Cities like Sisaket or Ubon, for example, don't open supermarkets and shopping centers thanks to the locals' high income or to Chinese high rollers... yet everywhere you see Western retirees with their Thai family in tow... and in these areas retirees mean something. 

 

Thailand exists beyond Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket and other tourist traps... in fact it exists mostly outside of these places... 

 

These disparaging comments about low income and useless retirees, generally coming from Bangkok and coastal areas' dwellers, remind me of the US split between the big coastal cities "elites" and the flyover states' "deplorables"... different places, same s..t!

[farangx]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They seemed to be eating lunch at 7/11, and shopping for makeup and other fine products, when I used to encounter them.  They were never to be seen in the sit-down restaurants that I and other Westerners frequented (you know, ones where the wait-staff receive "tips").

 

The wife and I went out often.  I saw the streets full of boarded-up businesses where Western visitors used to spend their money, before immigration stopped them staying here. 

Very unrealistic Jack, to expect other visitors to Thailand to do the same things you do, eat at the same places you do.  Did you also follow the Chinese groups that go around viewing condos, then buying them and jacking up prices in the process.  You should try joining one of these groups for a change doing what they do.  But I must warn you, it could costs you an arm and a leg and your tips alone is just not going to cut it.

 

Thailand will evolve further as more visitors come into the country, it is nobody's fault but yours if you failed to adapt.

 

 

[MrPatrickThai]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

In Thailand, if you have 800,000 baht in a bank account, all the doors are open, but if you own a 20 million baht house and carry a black Amex card provided in your home country, well, sorry sir, but let me show you the door. 

 

In Thailand, if you have a phd in gender studies from the university of Podunk, then the universities will gladly let you "teach" their students. 

But if you are Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, or another of these failures who skipped university, then too bad for you, you are incompetent and the local academics won't even want to speak to you. 

Give it a rest. Who owns a 20 million baht house and can't put 800k in a bank for a few months?

 

Universities all round the world require their professors to have a degree. 

[MrPatrickThai]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Now, many more good folks, who could meet the former standard honestly, will be forced to the agents.

Nothing to do with if they are good or not.

 

They are like the immigrants coming into the USA to seek a better standard of living. Build a wall Prayud! 

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, farangx said:

Very unrealistic Jack, to expect other visitors to Thailand to do the same things you do, eat at the same places you do.  Did you also follow the Chinese groups that go around viewing condos, then buying them and jacking up prices in the process. 

The prices are falling - more available to rent now than ever and at rock-bottom prices.  A guy I know who is in the business says the only good investment are the really expensive ones, sold to high-rollers.  I'm sure some Chinese commisar-kids are among the buyers.

 

7 minutes ago, farangx said:

You should try joining one of these groups for a change doing what they do.  But I must warn you, it could costs you an arm and a leg and your tips alone is just not going to cut it.

The ones who need a discount VOA to even afford to come here, because 1K Baht is that important?  Who are you kidding? 

 

7 minutes ago, farangx said:

Thailand will evolve further as more visitors come into the country, it is nobody's fault but yours if you failed to adapt.

I am on a Non-O - this will not end my stay here.  But they could get around to me yet.  Funny you say "adapt" as if some bully-clique making up arbitrary rules - rules that hurt his countrymen far more than it hurts expats - is something that one can "adapt" to. 

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Nothing to do with if they are good or not.

 

They are like the immigrants coming into the USA to seek a better standard of living. Build a wall Prayud! 

Quite the inverse.  We don't take the locals' jobs, drive down wages, and funnel the paycheck-money out of the nation's economy so that main street is boarded up as a result.  We bring money in, to support the locals' jobs, and fill up businesses with customers.  And we do not fill up their prisons, either.

Edited February 2, 2019 by JackThompson

[lkv]

51 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They were never to be seen in the sit-down restaurants that I and other Westerners frequented (you know, ones where the wait-staff receive "tips").

 

Well I don't know what you eat Jack, but if you eat western food, don't expect to see them in the irish pub. You would more likely find them in restaurants with Asian cuisine, including Thai.

[Khaeng Mak]

On 2/1/2019 at 5:47 PM, sometime said:

Sorry but a load of tosh, most of our time is spent in the garden not the bars.

How do you get your work permit?

 

Horticulture is a prohibited occupation for foreigners.

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, lkv said:

Well I don't know what you eat Jack, but if you eat western food, don't expect to see them in the irish pub. You would more likely find them in restaurants with Asian cuisine, including Thai.

I rarely ever ate Western food.  Until last year, my wife and I ate-out frequently in the tourist-area restaurants in Jomtien and Pattaya - mostly Thai cuisine.  I never saw the Chinese tour-groups do more than walk or bus through any of those areas. 

 

Those tour-buses must have stops to feed somewhere - but only where they can get a volume-discount, to keep the tour affordable.  Remember, a 1000 baht discount for a VOA is "make or break" with enough of those groups, that TAT had to offer the incentive to keep the "numbers up."

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Remember, a 1000 baht discount for a VOA is "make or break" with enough of those groups,

Same for me visiting China, 120 pounds from the UK was a no-go, 1,100bht from Chiang Mai for the same VISA and I went.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

"Five Thai salaries worth of foreign-sourced capital spending"

Minimum Thai wage you mean. Thai's with a good job earn a lot more then the 65K the poor pensioners can't produce.

I live in a Chiang Mai village full of middle class families, the men are all management on wages between 35k-50k. One commutes to Bangkok to earn 70k, only comes back for the weekends, he's the only big earner.

All drowning in debt. My 'poor pension' beats most of their wages.

Outside the village, most of the locals (95% of the nearby population) have trouble earning 6k, with a degree maybe 12k. The supermarkets tend to pay 9k for 6x 10hr shifts a week.

Edited February 2, 2019 by BritManToo

[Mac98]

On 2/1/2019 at 2:38 AM, jackdd said:

When you work you don't have time to spend money, so when you don't work you need more money ????

Wrong. Working I had to have a well-maintained car (two if the wife worked, then two even if she didn't work), petrol to commute (many pay for parking), dress for office and dry cleaning, or work tools and clothing, child care, lunch away from home, countless collections for birthdays, retirements, get well cards, occasional get-togethers after work for a drink, and so on. I have far more "disposable income" living on Social Security in Thailand than I did while working in America. 

[Mac98]

On 2/1/2019 at 2:14 AM, Pravda said:

So many tears over a petty financial requirement.

For you maybe. That's the attitude of all oligarchs.

[BritManToo]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:38 PM, jackdd said:

When you work you don't have time to spend money, so when you don't work you need more money ????

But the woman I married always had plenty of time to spend money.

In Thailand without my gf and daughter, I'd be spending around 200bht/day.

Edited February 2, 2019 by BritManToo

[farangx]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The prices are falling - more available to rent now than ever and at rock-bottom prices.  A guy I know who is in the business says the only good investment are the really expensive ones, sold to high-rollers.  I'm sure some Chinese commisar-kids are among the buyers.

 

The ones who need a discount VOA to even afford to come here, because 1K Baht is that important?  Who are you kidding? 

 

Commisar-kids?, who are you kidding Jack, you have absolutely no idea about the Chinese when comes to their shopping for properties overseas. ????????

 

[lkv]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I rarely ever ate Western food.  Until last year, my wife and I ate-out frequently in the tourist-area restaurants in Jomtien and Pattaya - mostly Thai cuisine.  I never saw the Chinese tour-groups do more than walk or bus through any of those areas. 

 

Those tour-buses must have stops to feed somewhere - but only where they can get a volume-discount, to keep the tour affordable.  Remember, a 1000 baht discount for a VOA is "make or break" with enough of those groups, that TAT had to offer the incentive to keep the "numbers up."

I wonder what the proportion of tours vs independent travellers is. Here in Bangkok i see them in malls alone or in small groups of 2-3 also, so those are clearly not with a tour.

 

Yes, with a tour, they will obviously only be taken to specific establishments that practice deep discounts for groups. That's how the tour agencies make a profit. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by lkv

[marqus12]

13 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

If your married to a Thai lady you only need to show 400,000 baht in the bank for 2 months to get a 1 year extension of stay.

 

The rules have only changed for single farangie retirees not for farangie's married to a Thai lady.

I hope Thai immigration don't mess with that it's a work of art already.

It always amazed me ..." thai lady"
What does a 'Thai lady' mean? I met a lot of Thai women.
I tried very hard but I have never met a "thai lady"

 

Thai lady is an oxymoron...I could have sworn that something like that

does not exist... it is an asiatic narcissistic trace detached from reality IMO

[richard_smith237]

53 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

It always amazed me ..." thai lady"
What does a 'Thai lady' mean? I met a lot of Thai women.
I tried very hard but I have never met a "thai lady"

 

Thai lady is an oxymoron...I could have sworn that something like that

does not exist... it is an asiatic narcissistic trace detached from reality IMO

Your implication that Thai Females are not ladies speaks only to your exposure to those portions of the Thai female population who would not fit the term lady... well, they would if you considered them 'ladies of the night'...  but your attempt to imply that Thailand's females could not be ladies is rather idiotic...   you have clearly never met a Thai lady and with attitude such as yours it may be better you don't expose them to your rather scummy opinions....

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by richard_smith237

[farangx]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

I wonder what the proportion of tours vs independent travellers is. Here in Bangkok i see them in malls alone or in small groups of 2-3 also, so those are clearly not with a tour.

More than half the Chinese tourists here are independent travelers ....

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by farangx

[marqus12]

25 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your implication that Thai Females are not ladies speaks only to your exposure to those portions of the Thai female population who would not fit the term lady... well, they would if you considered them 'ladies of the night'...  but your attempt to imply that Thailand's females could not be ladies is rather idiotic...   you have clearly never met a Thai lady and with attitude such as yours it may be better you don't expose them to your rather scummy opinions....

 

 

They are like their government...exactly the same !!!
 

[farangx]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

They seemed to be eating lunch at 7/11, and shopping for makeup and other fine products, when I used to encounter them.  They were never to be seen in the sit-down restaurants that I and other Westerners frequented (you know, ones where the wait-staff receive "tips").

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The ones who need a discount VOA to even afford to come here, because 1K Baht is that important?  Who are you kidding?

 

VOA fee is 2,000 baht Jack, try and keep up with the times.  Unlikely you give that much "tips" a week.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by farangx