Thailand should welcome retirees

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

Excuse me, but do you really think thailand will ever get rid of the brown envelope. you must be wink winking in your dreams.

No country managed to get rid of brown envelope (or similar illegal payment)

but no doubt that Thailand can (and will) progressively reduce it.

[lkv]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No country managed to get rid of brown envelope (or similar illegal payment)

but no doubt that Thailand can (and will) progressively reduce it.

The reality is, many of the forum participants or their children will not live to see a significant reduction in corruption.

 

Generally, at least 2-3 generations have to die. The corrupt parents that got ridiculously rich tend to pass the information on to their children, teaching them of the "right way to make money".

 

50 years would be a fair estimate, although given Thailand's history (elites ruling for centuries), maybe even 50 years won't be enough.

 

One should not read too much into Big Joke's PR exercise.

[FritsSikkink]

28 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Really! That is very selfish thinking, it is about 60 Ks to my nearest IO. Most of the people who

think like you have an IO nearby.

What about the post office? Let somebody do it for you.

Edited February 2, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Better weather, less rules to keep on breaking, don't have to bother with this tax and that tax, don't

need a very expensive TV license etc, etc, etc, etc.

Hell yes, it is -2 degC right now in my home UK town!

[MrPatrickThai]

16 minutes ago, connda said:

Thailand should also welcome foreigners who marry and then support their spouses.  By the way, I wear two hats here: one as a retiree and another as a foreign man married to a Thai national.

 

Ironically, that's the way it works for foreigner females married to a Thai man.  And their is no expectation that the foreigner female even provide any support.  The onus of support is entirely on the Thai man, and the foreigner female spouse does not have to show any financial supporting documents in order to remain in Thailand until they die or choose to leave.  So essentially marrying a Thai man leads to permanent residency - as it should.

Foreign men married to a Thai national wife?  Lordy!  You are simply a walking ATM with the same status as a tourist and as such your stay is only year to year and can end on the whim of the Thai government.  I took my Thai wife and her family out of poverty, built them a good home which is the foundation for my wife's retirement, my son, and his children, provide for them, sent my stepson to private school, and paid off my family's debt in order to unburden them.  The money I bring is multiples of what the average indebted Thai earns.

But:

Foreign woman married to Thai man - good.
Foreign man married to Thai woman - bad (and you're probably married to game the immigration system as well).
That's the perception.  Even my own wife holds this perception, although it will be a sad day for her and the rest of my family if the Thai government eventually make it a bureaucratic nightmare to remain here, because the Thai perception is that we are all "Takers" who are potential criminals when if fact most of us are "Givers" who support our families as well as our communities.
Most other countries have their eyes open and see that both retirees and men supporting a native wife of the host country are net 'givers' who add to the economies and in the case of men married to native wives, raise the standard of living for their families. 
Why Thais can not wrap their collective heads around that concept boggles the mind.
Imho, given the trajectory of this stupidity, eventually this leads to an exodus of both retirees and men married to Thai women.  No doubt the exodus will be cheered and jeered on with glee by the elitists among the expat community who will join in a farewell banter of, "Don't let the door hit ya in your butts Cheap Charlies!" <laughs all around>.  But if those of us who support Thai families are forced out, well - there goes the support that has kept the wife and family solidly in the Thai middle-class and out of poverty and out of debt.  Then what? 

Do the math. 

Do you ever wonder how many foreign women come here and encourage the sex trade? How many retired Western woman come here and marry a rice farmer toy boy. It's bloody obvious that the government has had enough of the retired sexpats coming here and participating in the sex trade, especially in Pattaya, where poor farming girls are forced into prostitution. Can you imagine the uproar if this happened in your country? Thailand is growing up. 

Retired men that don't marry gold-digging bar-girls will have no problem finding the cash. The ones that do, should be ashamed of themselves, an embarrassment to those of us who have lived her for many years and also to their children and grand children in their home countries.

[jacko45k]

And today's hymn will be 240 

"Oh Holier than Thou"

[chainarong]

Thailand is now tightening it's borders in line with western Countries, in the nineties you could open a bank account on a tourist visa, then the restrictions started and have continued since, places like Cambodia, which Thailand used to be like 30 years, will catch overtime because of pressure from outside influences. 

[Kwasaki]

25 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Really! That is very selfish thinking, it is about 60 Ks to my nearest IO. Most of the people who

think like you have an IO nearby.

Can't you post the 90 day form, I use to when I was under Maesot immigration that was a 170 Kilometre.

[CMNightRider]

18 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Thailand does welcome retired people as long as they have 800,000 baht and health insurance. 

Or if your married 400,000 baht that's the way it is. 

Almost all the American and Canadian retirees I know have way more money in US and Canadian banks than 800,000 baht, and make way more a month from their pensions than 65,000 baht a month.  Most have health insurance as well.  

 

What most of these retirees are going to do as their retirement visa extensions are due, is simply leave the country.  Personally, I would prefer to live in a country that has a higher standard and cost of living than deposit money in a Thai bank.  

 

These people can keep their low cost of living, polluted air, traffic jams, and nonsensical immigration rules that change with the wind.  I fail to see the value of handing over money to Thai banks for a one year visa extension.

 

For those who are willing to abide by these financial requirements, good for you.  I have read so many comments of people thinking these expat departures will not have any effect in Thailand.  Let's wait until the end of the year and see what the Thais have to say about that. Time will tell for sure ????      

[Max77]

21 hours ago, Pravda said:

So many tears over a petty financial requirement.

Talk about missing the entire point. Lol.  Hey booboo some advice.. don't drink and post.

[Max77]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Better weather, less rules to keep on breaking, don't have to bother with this tax and that tax, don't

need a very expensive TV license etc, etc, etc, etc.

Good answer to an ignorant question ????

[lkv]

12 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

For those who are willing to abide by these financial requirements, good for you.  I have read so many comments of people thinking these expat departures will not have any effect in Thailand.  Let's wait until the end of the year and see what the Thais have to say about that. Time will tell for sure ????      

It will probably have little effect whatsoever, even if all of them left, since the number is insignificant compared to the tourist numbers. We are probably talking say 100,000 people?

 

Even at a rate of 10 to 1, they would compensate by 1 million extra tourists. And the golden goose is China now btw.

 

Or at least I am pretty confident that's how they see it.

 

But they won't lose all the retirees, only a part of them that won't make it for whatever reason (be it financial or choice). Which in turn gets compensated by milking the remaining ones for more.

Edited February 2, 2019 by lkv

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, Brunolem said:

And where does this 16 million baht come from, if I may ask? 

 

I don't remember writing anything about my country's financial requirements for foreign retirees??? 

 

 

16,000,000 is the baht equivalent if I want to retire in the USA. And, I have to invest it, yet you think if I want to retire in Thailand, 50,000 baht is fair?

 

16,000,000 is 35,000% more than 50,000, yet the living expenses here in Thailand are not even 100%  cheaper than in the US.

 

Can't you see that this 50,000 baht is a ridiculous, thought up figure that you came up with?

[Max77]

3 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

Thailand does welcome retirees, but they only want retirees that are NOT going to become a burden on their system. Can't blame them at all. They want high-quality (read monied) retirees, not people who can't afford to live in their own home countries. Might not seem fair if you're one of those who will be negatively impacted by this, but it's smart from their point of view. The real screaming is going to start when they add an insurance requirement to the game. It's only a matter of time, IMHO.

Nothing humble about your "lecture" . Its fools like you that are to ignorant to see what  is really going on and how the rules are constantly changing and are making it more and more difficult and aggravating  for retirees.  But hey maybe you enjoy being played and made to jump thru their ever changing hoops and hurdles. ...IMHO ..lol.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Max77
Cr

[CMNightRider]

19 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Do you ever wonder how many foreign women come here and encourage the sex trade? How many retired Western woman come here and marry a rice farmer toy boy. It's bloody obvious that the government has had enough of the retired sexpats coming here and participating in the sex trade, especially in Pattaya, where poor farming girls are forced into prostitution. Can you imagine the uproar if this happened in your country? Thailand is growing up. 

Retired men that don't marry gold-digging bar-girls will have no problem finding the cash. The ones that do, should be ashamed of themselves, an embarrassment to those of us who have lived her for many years and also to their children and grand children in their home countries.

I have never been to Pattaya, but in Chiang Mai, I have never seen or heard of foreign women coming to Thailand to find a Thai toy boy.  However, I have seen a lot of gender confused foreign male expats come here to hook up with young Thai men.  Thailand seems to be a gender confused country.

 

Other than the above mentioned gender confused retirees, almost without exception all the expat retirees I have met have benefited Thailand in so many ways.  Many volunteer, donate to local charities, and support the local economy.  Thai Immigrations latest new hurdles to stay here long term is convincing many of these people to leave Thailand.        

[Max77]

6 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I would think there are many, many more, who, before moving here understood that the visa conditions required 800k in the bank, and didn't consider that that money would also double as day to day living expenses.

In fact I don't understand how it can be used for both things. After meeting that condition, you still need to import money, over and above,  to live on.

If the 800k is used for expenses it must be replenished anyway. That is, unless it doesn't actually exist and is temporarily conjured up for the once-a-year purpose. To pay agents a fee to temporarily lend you that money is a scam, and I can understand why Immigration want to end this form of cheating.

I also don't like my money sitting idle in a bank, but know it is still mine, and regard it as an emergency fund if ever needed.

Virtually all countries place financial requirements on people wanting to live there long term, for good reason. Wide open borders attract criminals, beggars, scammers and other scum of the earth. I've had more Westerners trying to rip me off here than Thais, not talking small money.

As someone who understood the requirements, and made the effort to meet them, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for those who didn't. Although, I do get the anguish of people with families who have made their life in Thailand for many years and now find they may be in trouble. Perhaps there should be some sort of case by case exemption for these people.   

 

 

???????????? The requirement was ALSO to prove you earn the equivalent of 65k baht. NOW they want  you to have that money transferred each month into their bank OR have 800k in their bank. 

[Myran]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Again, very selfish thinking, what about those whose IO does not allow you to do it by mail.

Not all IO offices have the same rules. This is Thailand.

Well then they will have to spend 3-or-so hours one time every three months to do it the normal way. I do realize that might seem like a hellish experience if you're prone to being a drama queen.

[Saladin]

Like tens of thousands of other Expatrians I get about 40,000B per month from foreign Social Security, paid directly into Bangkok Bank, and every baht of it is spent in the Thai economy, without the government having to lift a finger.

 

Oh to have a business that was so easy to make money. Why isn't the Thai government content with that, rather than paying an army of pen pushers to devise more and more barriers that even their own Immigration Department can't understand. 

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

What about the post office? Let somebody do it for you.

What about the post office? People have enough to do without running to IOs.

[elgenon]

23 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Older persons are less inclined to engage in big items purchases than younger ones. 

 

They need more money for small things, such as drinks on the beach, or a new Hawaiian shirt, but that's nothing compared with the amount required for the latest 60" flat screen, or a marble countertop for the kitchen, not to mention the education of the children. 

 

Many retirees can live a pleasant life in Thailand for much less than 65,000 baht per month. 

 

In my village, I wouldn't even know how to spend such an amount... 

 

How does a person in his 70s get insurance? Please give me your wisdom.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

Thailand does welcome retirees, but they only want retirees that are NOT going to become a burden on their system. Can't blame them at all.

Agreed.  Now how, exactly, do we "become a burden" when we get no freebees here?

 

5 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

They want high-quality (read monied) retirees, not people who can't afford to live in their own home countries.

We can all "afford" to live there - just not enjoy it as much.  If not staying in Thailand, we'd go to the many OTHER countries in this region (or around the world), where we can live much better than our passport-countries.  We live here due to the better cost/benefit ratio cost of living Thailand provides.

 

5 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

Might not seem fair if you're one of those who will be negatively impacted by this, but it's smart from their point of view.

Only if you don't care at all about the tens of thousands of Thais who won't have a job - and who have already lost their careers - due directly to immigration's policies of driving out the people who fund those jobs with foreign-sourced spending.

 

5 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

The real screaming is going to start when they add an insurance requirement to the game. It's only a matter of time, IMHO.

That depends.  Honest insurance that just covers immediate treatment and sending us home in the rare-cases where the foreigner lacks the funds?  That would work - and should especially apply to all short-term tourists, since they are more likely to be younger risk-takers. 

Or, will it be a demand designed to be a cash-cow for the for-profit insurance companies, providing things like outpatient-care, which we would get after being sent home, if we ran out of funds to pay the bills here?

[JackThompson]

 

6 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

"A Western retiree in a village probably brings much more to the locals than 10 million Chinese tourists, whose bulk of the money never reaches the Thai population."

What a load of BS. 

True.  No amount of Chinese tourists even brings a single baht to them. 

 

Even in tourist-areas, 99% of them only spend where the Tour Bus has an "arrangement" for them to spend money - and sometimes 7/11 because there is one within walking-distance of the hotel - where their Tour Agency volume-bargained the management down to a pittance-per-room profit. 

 

After all, immigration is blocking the would-be Western guests who "stay in Thailand too much" - who paid more and even tipped (gasp), so the hotels have to take what they can get from whatever is left / allowed in.

Edited February 2, 2019 by JackThompson

[GalaxyMan]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

That depends.  Honest insurance that just covers immediate treatment and sending us home in the rare-cases where the foreigner lacks the funds?  That would work - and should especially apply to all short-term tourists, since they are more likely to be younger risk-takers.

Wouldn't that be nice, but the chances of the Thai authorities ever doing anything that actually makes sense is slim and none.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

If you're one of those who claims he can manage on baht 12,000 a month

That's only about 1 decent Thai salary.  Almost all of us spend at least 4 or 5 Thai salaries into the economy a month - which is still considered "not enough" by the authorities.

 

7 hours ago, Old Croc said:

To pay agents a fee to temporarily lend you that money is a scam, and I can understand why Immigration want to end this form of cheating.

You have it exactly backwards.  They want MORE people using agents.  This change will ensure that.   They don't "check seasoning" for agent-applications, so it doesn't matter how long the seasoning is - except to the extent it lowers competition from alternate-lenders who don't pay off immigration, like the agents do. 

 

7 hours ago, Old Croc said:

As someone who understood the requirements, and made the effort to meet them, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for those who didn't.

Many did meet them, and still do (the original requirements).  They have moved the goalposts.  That's the problem

 

6 hours ago, catman20 said:

  all you people who keep winning about all this, seems to me, you either cant afford to be retired here or just want something to moan about.

If they could not afford to be here, they would not be here, since there are no handouts for them here.

 

6 hours ago, catman20 said:

if you can afford it and meet all the criteria  i really dont see any problems. 

Which criteria - those in place when they "Retired" here, or the moved goalposts since?

 

5 hours ago, Myran said:

"Thailand should welcome retirees"

 

They are. They even have a special visa just for you guys. All you have to do is adhere to a set of financial requirements. 

Which set?  The ones a week ago, the month before, or whatever they make up tomorrow?

 

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

If your married to a Thai lady you only need to show 400,000 baht in the bank for 2 months to get a 1 year extension of stay.

 

The rules have only changed for single farangie retirees not for farangie's married to a Thai lady.

I hope Thai immigration don't mess with that it's a work of art already. 

Now they are requiring you leave it in during the "consideration" period afterwords - 1 or 2 months more - depending on how they feel about doing it that week (some offices, including Chang Wattana).

 

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Or 25k for a visa agent.

With the new rules for retirement a person even using an agent will need 400,000 baht permanently in the bank which was not required before.

It's just another "seasoning" requirement which can ignored the same as the existing seasoning requirement. 

 

Unless they are going to arrest the crooked IOs who work with agents, none of this makes any difference to those using agents.

 

23 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Daft.  You must not have read the most recent rules. It is because of the brown envelopes that all the recent hassle has started.  BJ is trying to get rid of the brown envelopes to his people without firing them ergo retirees suffer and pay the price because of the brown envelopes not because they want brown envelopes but because they want to rid the system of the brown envelopes.  So you are 100% in error nuff said wink wink.

Got it backwards.  All this does is increase the "seasoning" which agent-applications don't have to show - ever.

 

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

So what are you gonna do about it Thailand has got to do something about scumbags wanting to stay here.

No, they go to agents and get the red-carpet treatment.

 

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

As I would say " as long as " scumbags keep coming here it's needed.

Agents file the 90-day reports for the scumbags - part of the package-deal.  No TM-30s needed for agent-apps either, so they could be anywhere.

[pattayadgw]

How can one say they want to get rid of the brown envelopes... it used to be mainly police but now that the military have hopped on the wagon the number of brownies has increased dramatically and now nobody knows who they have to hand them too as there are so many with their hands out.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Thinking that Thailand needs (or cares at all about) old farang geezers spending a couple of thousand bucks a month each is setting yourself up for a disappointment.

 

19 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I hope most of you eventually realize you are not important to this place.  The people here and government could care less about you. Talk to the right people and they will tell you this to your face.

But, it is not unlike many countries where foreigners are not truly wanted or looked upon favorably.

If many leave, there would be a short adjust ment period but then things and people would move on like they always do.

This country will not fold or cry if you go.

Sorry.. 

We are allowed to be here due to our spending - or relationships to Thais, which involve spending/ supporting them.  That's fine - we get it.  

Run out of money?  Go home.  No arguments here. 

Given no handouts, and starvation in the elements as the alternative, few broke foreigners stick around for long (but the odd 1:100K crazy-guy who does will get a TV-segment used to trash us all).

 

What is disgusting is not about them blowing-off about OUR well-being.  That's not the job of the Thai government in the first place.  It is the policy-makers not caring One Bit about the harm done to thousands of own citizens due to their actions to-date, and ongoing.

 

4 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Why do you think that the Elite visa was introduced?

To enrich those collecting the money - certainly not for some noble-purpose. 

 

Given there is no check to see if those who received them have any way of paying their expenses in the future, it certainly had nothing to do with worry about people "being able to support themselves," or similar excuses for pointless hoop-jumping.  All it proves is, "This guy blew some money a decade ago," or similar.

[JackThompson]

21 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Yes, there are 3000 homeless people in Thailand compared to 550,000 in the USA.

That's partly because their family-farms were not ripped away from them by corporate-agriculture and the govt's farm-loan outfits working in tandem to that end.  When immigration throws 20K Thais out of work, by blocking their customers, or letting in cheap foreign workers, at least they have a subsistence-farm to return to.  By contrast, Americans often end up living in a cardboard box under a tarp when the govt lets in foreign workers to replace them.

 

21 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Yet you want a foreign retiree to invest over 16,000,000 baht to live in your country. Not very fair is it?

 

21 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The cost of living in Bangkok is only 43% lower than in New York. Yet, he thinks a retiree in New York should pay 35,000% more than in Bangkok.

Please don't start the ridiculous comparisons to Thais moving to Western countries, where PR, higher-paying jobs, handouts, etc are all on the table.  You are comparing some sort of long-term investment Visa with Thailand's 1-year "no rights for you" retirement-extension?

The cost of living in NYC is astronomically higher - start with 60K/mo just for a tiny cubicle apartment.  You could get a better room in Bangkok for 2K/mo. 

 

The USA does not offer retirement-extensions like Thailand, because foreign-sourced spending is not 15% of the GDP of the USA, as it is in Thailand.  And given all of that "free money" rather than recycled-money, it is worth much more than 15% of the country's net financial-gain from our spending here.

 

We do nothing in Thailand but spend Our Foreign-Sourced Money into the country, for nothing in return but "permission to stay" one year at a time.  The least they could do is not repeatedly change the conditions from what they were when we arrived.

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

Can't you see that this 50,000 baht is a ridiculous, thought up figure that you came up with?

The 50,000 baht would be blocked on a special account, only to guarantee that the retiree could be repatriated if needed. 

 

That would not be connected to his financial means of living in Thailand. 

 

Thailand is very much a "one size fits all" kind of country, which is not surprising since it is first and foremost a military country, never mind who pretends to govern. 

 

Military, not as in the sense of Alexander's or Bonaparte's strategic minds, but rather as in proudly wearing a brown uniform, whether you are a soldier, a teacher or a postman, and "thinking" like a corporal, implementing and following rules made to fit all, never mind the absurdities. 

 

In Thailand, if you have 800,000 baht in a bank account, all the doors are open, but if you own a 20 million baht house and carry a black Amex card provided in your home country, well, sorry sir, but let me show you the door. 

 

In Thailand, if you have a phd in gender studies from the university of Podunk, then the universities will gladly let you "teach" their students. 

But if you are Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, or another of these failures who skipped university, then too bad for you, you are incompetent and the local academics won't even want to speak to you. 

 

Rules made by minds locked in military straigthjackets.. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

True.  No amount of Chinese tourists even brings a single baht to them. 

 

Even in tourist-areas, 99% of them only spend where the Tour Bus has an "arrangement" for them to spend money - and sometimes 7/11 because there is one within walking-distance of the hotel - where their Tour Agency volume-bargained the management down to a pittance-per-room profit. 

 

After all, immigration is blocking the would-be Western guests who "stay in Thailand too much" - who paid more and even tipped (gasp), so the hotels have to take what they can get from whatever is left / allowed in.

Absolute bar stool nonsense, they spend more than Western tourists

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

What about the post office? People have enough to do without running to IOs.

posting your 90 days