The Real Problem With Keeping 800K In Thai Bank

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

38 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Never an issue with money disappearing from an account...  But I have also read that it's happened - a corrupt bank employee... but that's incredibly rare. 

 

 

Not so rare at all... Just go a Google search for the site thaivisa.com along with the search terms "bank" "employee" "arrested".  These aren't necessarily the worst cases or the most recent ones, just a sampling of examples of the kind of stuff that goes on here.

 

 

Quote

Police said they discovered that the suspect was closely monitoring bank accounts that belonged to foreign clients with low activities.

After locating these accounts all relevant details were noted down and were then used to create counterfeit ATM cards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/19493/ex-bank-employee-nabbed-for-allegedly-selling-bank-books-to-call-centre-gangs

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/service-smile-bank-officer-paid-gold-partying-customers-stolen-credit-cards/

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[gentlemanjackdarby]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That doesn't mean it cannot and does not happen. It does, it's in the news regularly, and even for accounts with no bank cards involved.

 

I agree with the OP's point. Given the history of (and handling of) account theft here, I would be very reluctant to keep any significant amount of funds in a bank account here.

 

Just because it hasn't (yet) happened to you or me or X number of others doesn't mean it can't and won't happen. Just a matter of odds, chances and time.

 

You haven't gotten killed yet in a Thai road crash either... But that doesn't mean folks aren't dying by the thousands.... (Just an analogy...not suggesting account theft is THAT prevalent).

 

 

Great post!

 

One thing that fascinates me is how people can say 'event X has never happened' or 'I know 50 people and they're all doing thing Y and it's OK'

 

It wouldn't be so bad listening to them say those things except for when it does happen, they moan loud and long to all and sundry about the predicament in which they find themselves (well, except for those killed in road accidents). And usually they'll say it's someone else's fault and I (or the group to which I belong) should be given a pass because....

 

Sort of like the  folks who've read on forums, especially this one, and social media that Thailand is tightening the screws on, first, the visa runners and perpetual tourists, then those abusing ed visas, followed by those abusing marriage visas, and now those who thought using 'liar's letters' and other such 'financial engineering' to burnish their financial bona-fides to meet Thailand visa standards was fine because it always has been and because it has been, it always will be.

 

Once Thailand has tightened all the screws to its satisfaction, it will be fun to watch the show continue to play out in those countries in the neighborhood that are currently more forgiving to perpetual tourists; it's beginning to play out in, for example, the PI, where those on tourist visa waivers and extensions can no longer get bank accounts unless very lucky and very persistent, get a drivers license, register a motor vehicle, etc. Of course, it isn't an immediate change, but change is coming.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, rott said:

What are the fees for Vietnam please. Initial plus extensions and what limit to extensions?

 

 Cheers

It depends on your home country.

 

I'm an American and I've been getting familiar with requirements for Vietnam, so I'll mention what's applicable to Americans.

 

Strangely enough, the website for the Vietnamse embassy in Washington D.C. doesn't give cost for the visa; it says to call the embassy.

 

For Vietnam, Americans must have a visa when they arrive in Vietnam; there is no visa waiver (visa on arrival) and since one must have a visa, there are no extensions (visa waivers can be extended; visas cannot be extended - they expire on the 'enter by' date).

 

That being said, American passport holders are eligible for a 1-year, multi-entry visa in which each entry is no longer than 90 days. The stamping fee, upon arrival in Vietnam, is USD 135 so even including an embassy or agent's fee, not very much. Other visa types cost less.

 

That visa is only available in the U.S., but the Washington Embassy's application is all on-line; for successful applicants, the loose-leaf visa is sent by U.S. mail.

 

In other words, it isn't necessary to send one's passport to the embassy to have the visa sticker affixed to it.

 

A couple of things to keep in mind, courtesy of the embassy website:

 

Although the visa is a 1-year, multi-entry visa, the website makes it clear that it's at the discretion of the IO upon arrival in Vietnam how long one is permitted upon each entry; while the website doesn't specifically say it, it goes without saying that the IO may not allow entry at all if he has a a reason not to - maybe if he believes one is a perpetual tourist, working illegally, etc. The same things that some folks are whining about on this forum.

 

And the embassy website also cautions about using agents - at first I didn't think that, in most case, that would be an issue, but when I looked carefully at one agent's site, I noticed that it's TLD (top-level domain) was 'govt', which is not a legitimate TLD for a government (*.gov). In other words, a bit of trickery. As well, I found another site using the TLD of 'org' which is a bit misleading.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Looks like I'm the first on here to have had actual experience of fraudulent ATM withdrawals on not 1, but 2, separate accounts with separate banks - Krung Thai and Kasikorn. So, as far as i am concerned, the OP's points are well-made. The amounts involved were around 20,000 THB in each case - and, needless to say, neither Krung Thai nor Kasikorn showed any inclination to reimburse me for my losses. As a result, I withdrew what was left in my accounts with those 2 particular banks PDQ, and let them eventually lapse.

 

These days I bank with Bangkok Bank but with no cards linked to my account. Fingers crossed, I have not, to date, experienced any further problems with unauthorised withdrawals. But, as others have pointed out, I am, of course, still not immune from negative actions instigated by determined crooked bank employees - in connection with which I recall, with some concern, a report on here about 6 months ago relating to one such Bangkok Bank employee.

Thank you for taking the time to post your experience.

 

While I don't mean to downplay the posts that others have made from third-party sources, it is helpful to hear about first-hand experiences.

 

I'm a CIA (Certified Internal Auditor) and I can tell you from experience that unless regulatory agencies require it or a fraud is of such magnitude that it affects public financial statements (ZZZZ Best or Enron ring any bells?), it isn't made public; it's resolved internally and controls are put in place so that (hopefully) that particular fraud avenue is eliminated. However, it's virtually impossible to eliminate the possibility of having a corrupt employee at some point unless an organization is very small and that presents other, somewhat unique, risks

[thaicurious]

If concerned with odds of random catastrophe, just think of regulation as a hedge against a year's hyperinflation event in your home country. At least you've got a year's worth of expat baht to live on. I'm not sure how that might work with a world currency like the US$ though. For all I know that could take everyone down and then the other currencies would flock towards the origination of the hyperinflation event. Still, a year's worth of baht could smooth such transition.

[farangx]

The real problem is I am a cash person.  Looks like I really need to put some of it back into my bank accounts here.

 

[garyk]

Just put the 800K in a Thai bank and keep the rest in your country if you are worried. 

I doubt you will ever have a problem. The only down side to moving all your money to only one country, is the state of the currency IMO. If possible best to hedge your bet and keep it spread around.

Thailand just wants to use your money legally. Not steal it.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by garyk

[garyk]

9 hours ago, Kenchamp said:

For those that don't have any health or accident insurance, having 800k in the bank is not a bad idea.

The 800K or 400K will be just enough to ship you back to your home country... haha

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

IMO most stories you hear from farangs in Thailand regarding money disappearing from their account are related to the individual's lax security of his ibanking and debit card credentials.

IE  sending the Mrs out with it to get some money? 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It happened next door in Cambodia, not so long ago.

And didn't Brazil Nationalize Bank accounts not so far back?

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

These days if you cannot afford to leave 800,000/400,000 thb in the bank all year and every year, you probably don't have enough money to live in Thailand.

 

 

I did have, now I got 400k less!

[brokenbone]

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

These days if you cannot afford to leave 800,000/400,000 thb in the bank all year and every year, you probably don't have enough money to live in Thailand.

 

 

not true, my friend from US visiting thinks i'm pissing away money like theres no tomorrow, and for that very reason

i havnt got 800 in the bank, and its going to take time to re-adjust and save up. just changing the mindset is a hurdle

[garyk]

6 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

There is one downside to the monthly transfer method and that is ensuring that, if one uses Transferwise, all of the monthly transfers are coded 'FTT' for 'foreign telegraphic transfer' on one's Thailand bank's books - there is some speculation, and it's only speculation at this point, that one's extension may be denied if the IO can't easily distinguish that the monthly transfers are coming from outside Thailand.

 

Of course, one could use a bank that makes wire (SWIFT) transfers rather than Transferwise and it would be guaranteed that the transfer would be coded FTT; of course, that likely comes with a higher cost than Transferwise but it's not as bad as I first thought.

 

I checked on the wire transfer fees at the banks at which I have accounts and they're around USD 45 - 50; however, that is roughly the monthly interest that I would earn, with essentially no risk, on THB 800,000 (USD 25,600) in a purchased money fund (similar to a money market fund that invests in ultra short commercial paper).

 

And unlike a lot of folks who spew out about their 'great returns' on their 'sophisticated investments', I'll back up what I wrote above with specific details so that others, if they so choose, may verify what I'm saying and, if they care to, take advantage of it.

 

Charles Schwab, an American brokerage (the folks who brought us the Schwab Bank account with the debit card that reimburses ALL ATM fees, U.S. and non-U.S.), offers a purchased money fund (Ticker SWVXX) that, for the latest 7-day period, paid 2.33% on funds that are completely liquid.

 

So, in my analysis, keeping USD 25,600 (THB 800,000) in my Schwab account and simply transferring the equivalent of THB 65K from monthly income each month seems the smarter and safer option since I won't have to worry about any 'problems' in the Thai banking system affecting anything other than the portion of my monthly income, in the bank after paying monthly expenses, that I've transferred to meet the THB 65K requirement.

 

As well, because the U.S. allows financial accounts to be designated as 'Totten Trusts', i.e, with a designated beneficiary entitled to the funds in the account upon the account holder's death, my heirs would not have to deal with a lot of aggro, drills, expenses, etc. as they would if I have significant funds on deposit in a Thai Bank.

 

And I don't have to deal with exchange rate gains or losses as I would if I had significant funds on deposit in a Thai bank and one day chose to repatriate those funds - I know a lot of folks are crowing that 'the Thai Baht will only get stronger', but I've been around the money game long enough to understand that what goes up (interest rates, equities, currencies, etc.) eventually must come down and, with the rise in Thailand household debt, I see the Thai Baht more likely on the down side of things in the mid-term future. So I don't lose now (THB historically strong relative to USD) or at some point down the road (repatriating a largish sum when the THB is likely weak against the USD) or later by keeping my money at home.

Unless you have a home in the U.S. or really know how to fool Schwab you are living on borrowed time.

I also have the brokerage investment account, and Schwab is actively seeking out and promptly canceling all investment accounts that live overseas! And I do not blame them. 

The Schwab account lets you transfer overseas at 25 dollars a transfer. So that is 350/yr transfer fees. 

Again unless you have residence in the states and go back to the states for a few months a year Schwab is on to you, and you will eventually be terminated.

 

Also good luck opening a Schwab account from abroad. 

This post is good in theory but a joke for 95% of the guys that call LOS's their home. From the US.

I have also looked into other banks that offer transfers and ATM rebate's.

I hate to say this but, if you have burnt your bridges in America. And I don't care if you are a millionaire or a pauper, it is going to cost you!

Edited February 3, 2019 by garyk

[chainarong]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In ten years with two banks, never had it happen. I stick with savings passbooks, no debit/credit cards.

Me and the Thai crew have banked with BKK and "K" for over thirty years and have been on cards for ten plus and no worries there , nothing different from my country of origin, mate,

[onera1961]

11 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Keep 800k in a fixed deposit account.

Which bank gives the most interest in a Fixed deposit account? And what are the rule for withdrawal?

[marcusarelus]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And it's usually the 800K-like kind of accounts that the criminal bank employees often target --specifically, I don't mean just farang accounts, I mean accounts where there isn't a lot of, or any, transaction activity.  And the funds are just sitting there throughout the year earning some interest. Because the bank employee criminals correctly guess the accountholder won't immediately notice the thefts, and have no reason to be checking their accounts day in and day out.

 

 

Silly.  With an SMS notification you are notified within seconds of a transaction. 

[garyk]

IMO anyone that is on the border, and by on the border I mean burnt their bridges in their home country, and not have at least 100K US of disposable income. You should run as fast as you can from Thailand. There are many many countries that will accept you at this point in time. And your stay will be stress free.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

Unless you have a home in the U.S. or really know how to fool Schwab you are living on borrowed time.

I also have the brokerage investment account, and Schwab is actively seeking out and promptly canceling all investment accounts that live overseas! And I do not blame them. 

The Schwab account lets you transfer overseas at 25 dollars a transfer. So that is 350/yr transfer fees. 

Again unless you have residence in the states and go back to the states for a few months a year Schwab is on to you, and you will eventually be terminated.

 

Also good luck opening a Schwab account from abroad. 

This post is good in theory but a joke for 95% of the guys that call LOS's their home. From the US.

I have also looked into other banks that offer transfers and ATM rebate's.

I hate to say this but, if you have burnt your bridges in America. And I don't care if you are a millionaire or a pauper, it is going to cost you!

Nonsense.  I burned my bridges 20 years ago to foil the ex wives who kept trying to get more money.  Happy I did and secure money in Thai banks. 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

52 minutes ago, garyk said:

Unless you have a home in the U.S. or really know how to fool Schwab you are living on borrowed time.

I also have the brokerage investment account, and Schwab is actively seeking out and promptly canceling all investment accounts that live overseas! And I do not blame them. 

The Schwab account lets you transfer overseas at 25 dollars a transfer. So that is 350/yr transfer fees. 

Again unless you have residence in the states and go back to the states for a few months a year Schwab is on to you, and you will eventually be terminated.

 

Also good luck opening a Schwab account from abroad. 

This post is good in theory but a joke for 95% of the guys that call LOS's their home. From the US.

I have also looked into other banks that offer transfers and ATM rebate's.

I hate to say this but, if you have burnt your bridges in America. And I don't care if you are a millionaire or a pauper, it is going to cost you!

You're absolutely right about having a residence in the U.S.

 

However, it's my understanding that if one has a Schwab account and become resident outside the U.S., they don't necessarily liquidate one's holdings and close one's account if the account is a retirement account - they simply won't allow one to change one's holdings. Not necessarily a bad thing for a properly structured retirement account.

 

And if one had a retirement account, it may be possible to have a Schwab Bank account and the debit card.

 

I'm also aware that Schwab has something called 'Schwab International' that is designed for U.S. non-residents - I looked into that a bit last week, but there wasn't a lot of information on the website and the website directed anyone interested to call for more information. Probably not wise to call attention to myself even though I'm still in the U.S. and will maintain a U.S. residence after I retire and spend a significant amount of time abroad.

 

There are several banks and federal credit unions that will rebate a significant amount of foreign ATM fees each month, although not necessarily the VISA network ISA fee, which is currently 1%. The best of those is USAA (for vets and family of vets), Alliant Credit union (which is currently paying 2% on their high-yield savings account and I don't recall a significant minimum balance) and State Department Federal Credit Union.

 

It's easier to get membership in Alliant compared to SDFCU, but neither is particularly difficult. 

[garyk]

@ jentlemanjack You need to be careful if you are spending most of your time here. If you have a permanent US residence you are good to go. 

Personally I would not advertise it! You are in a very good position, don't take any chances.

I've looked into several other banks and credit unions. On a side note, I worked in the USAA complex as an outside contractor in San Antonio Texas. ????

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by garyk

[gentlemanjackdarby]

4 minutes ago, garyk said:

@ jentlemanjack You need to be careful if you are spending most of your time here. If you have a permanent US residence you are good to go. 

Personally I would not advertise it! You are in a very good position, don't take any chances.

 

Thanks - appreciate the concern!

[Boon Mee]

12 hours ago, arithai12 said:

A non-issue.

Keep 800k in a fixed deposit account.

Absolutely. 

Leave it in there and forget about it aside from every quarter or so, do an update on the fixed passbook. 

[LivinLOS]

12 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

You have heard many stories?

Got any more besides the article you read where in fact the money was returned?

On Phuket many... One offshore worker had 600k taken.. Another mate had his max daily amount taken multiple times, first time he had the card locked in a safe deposit box of a friend.. Second time he could prove he was out of the country. In the end as it happened with gaps of time in between all he could do was close his account and leave that bank. 

Both times police refused to make a police report without a bank report.. The bank of course wouldnt provide the bank report and stonewalled them with 'you must have taken and forgot'.. I believe the 600k one was advised to open a civil claim.. 

 

Face it.. This does happen much more than you think in areas like patong / pattaya / etc.. 

 

For this reason I keep any larger deposits in an account with no ATM card and only online banking. With all SMS alerts turned on. 

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

that, for the latest 7-day period, paid 2.33% on funds that are completely liquid.

Are you saying 2.33% PER WEEK = 121% per annum.?

[rumak]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

Same here, over ten years never a problem.

twenty years...never a problem.   maybe you should research the degree of fraud in USA for comparisons.

 

One other note that has been mentioned before.   If you had brought over some of your savings and put it into baht five years ago,  you would have gained at least 25% in currency value against some major currencies.   

[rumak]

47 minutes ago, garyk said:

IMO anyone that is on the border, and by on the border I mean burnt their bridges in their home country, and not have at least 100K US of disposable income. You should run as fast as you can from Thailand. There are many many countries that will accept you at this point in time. And your stay will be stress free.

if you think other places are stress free , especially for those with not a LOT of cash to insulate themselves,

your imagination is to be commended

[Proboscis]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I was more worried about a civil war, were all foreigners get escorted to the airport, and the banks were all closed.

It happened next door in Cambodia, not so long ago.

Yes, if you think that 40 years is "not so long ago."

[Suradit69]

Twenty plus years with Bangkok Bank. Not one satang gone missing.

 

The real problem putting Baht 800,000 in a bank account for many people is that they don't have it.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, phutoie2 said:

Yes,  certainly a better read than all the "I lived here ___ years and it's never happened to me". 

The current fav is, "if you haven't the money, you shouldn't be here". 

I have neither 800 or 400K in the bank, and guess what?, I'm not going anywhere. 

enjoy those constant visa runs.    not for me  thx

 

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic and troll posts have been removed.