New Rules- Has anyone asked senior immigration officials?

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Thailand said:

So you are saying that this is 100% sure this applies to all and not just to new applicants, then why would a respected agency post to the contrary and have it endorsed by a well established expats club?

Yes I am saying it takes effect on March 1st for all extensions issued after that day. There is no mention of anything in the cover letter for the order and the order saying otherwise.

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, Thailand said:

So you are saying that this is 100% sure this applies to all and not just to new applicants, then why would a respected agency post to the contrary and have it endorsed by a well established expats club?

It is 100% sure that this order applies to new applicants and renewals - AFTER March 1st.

 

The agent is giving the expats club wrong advice/information.

 

It is a replacement order for the criteria for consideration issued in order 327/2557 back in 2014. The old order specified different rules for new applicants and renewals. The new order doesn't.

 

Here is the old order for comparison;

 

The alien:

(1)  Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2)  Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3)  Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or

(4)  On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in

Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or
(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000

(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

[Thailand]

I guess we will get real confirmation one way or another when the hundreds of retirees from many countries that have not seen the police order go to renew their extensions of stay from 1st March.

I only see complete chaos.

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, Thailand said:

I guess we will get real confirmation one way or another when the hundreds of retirees from many countries that have not seen the police order go to renew their extensions of stay from 1st March.

I only see complete chaos.

Those using the bank method will be applying expecting to need to have seasoned the funds for 3 months; as the requirement has reduced to 2 months they aren't going to have a problem applying.

 

Those expecting to immediately drawdown all or some of their money after the extension may have a problem, but - as retirees - most are likely to have access to other funds.

[marcusarelus]

30 minutes ago, Thailand said:

I guess we will get real confirmation one way or another when the hundreds of retirees from many countries that have not seen the police order go to renew their extensions of stay from 1st March.

I only see complete chaos.

What has changed?  800K in the bank for 2 months instead of 3?  Or do you think the 400K will be checked for the previous 12 months?

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

So you are saying that this is 100% sure this applies to all and not just to new applicants, then why would a respected agency post to the contrary and have it endorsed by a well established expats club?

That was the agent's free advice version.

Edited February 9, 2019 by JLCrab

[Thailand]

16 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What has changed?  800K in the bank for 2 months instead of 3?  Or do you think the 400K will be checked for the previous 12 months?

It may be 800K in the bank for either 2 or 3 months before application, plus 3 months after plus leaving 400K min in account for all the time you are using extension of stay. Until it changes.

 

Even I can say they will not check the previous 12 months prior to 1st March 2019, but who knows, the police order is wide open to interpretation.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   Keep it civil and stay on topic, please.

[steve73]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

I guess we will get real confirmation one way or another when the hundreds of retirees from many countries that have not seen the police order go to renew their extensions of stay from 1st March.

I only see complete chaos.

Slightly off-topic, but I'm still meeting people who have no idea that their embassy are no longer issuing income letters.   With extensions due in the next few months, they can longer get letters, and have not been remitting adequate funds into their Thai bank. 

 

Some are still using foreign Debit cards to withdraw their pensions and to deposit most of it into his Thai bank, keeping enough for their immediate needs.  Others I meet are happily using Transferwise to add funds as required, some months much more than required, and some months zero depending on how strong their currency (GBP) is.

 

Clearly the income method will probably not work for them, and most of them are now unable to bring in adequate funds at this late stage to meet the 800k method... Agents may be their only solution at this late stage - assuming they're still (being allowed to) operate.

 

I agree, this whole hastily rolled out cluster***k will be complete chaos.

  

Edited February 9, 2019 by steve73

[lelapin]

On 2/6/2019 at 6:05 AM, wgdanson said:

I asked the top man at P'lok Imm last week, and he said 'As long as 800k come into bank from abroad I am OK. Lump sum or, monthly'

I am erring on the cautious and doing 66k a month, Transferwise, FTT in my Bkk Bank.

I sold a house here 2 years ago for around 5 million baht which is in my Bangkok Bank and currently aged 77 I expect to be able to draw from this for most of my remaining time on earth.

I hope that you are not suggesting I still need to bring in an additional 800k each year from England.

[wgdanson]

15 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Slightly off-topic, but I'm still meeting people who have no idea that their embassy are no longer issuing income letters.   With extensions due in the next few months, they can longer get letters, and have not been remitting adequate funds into their Thai bank. 

 

Some are still using foreign Debit cards to withdraw their pensions and to deposit most of it into his Thai bank, keeping enough for their immediate needs.  Others I meet are happily using Transferwise to add funds as required, some months much more than required, and some months zero depending on how strong their currency (GBP) is.

 

Clearly the income method will probably not work for them, and most of them are now unable to bring in adequate funds at this late stage to meet the 800k method... Agents may be their only solution at this late stage - assuming they're still (being allowed to) operate.

 

I agree, this whole hastily rolled out cluster***k will be complete chaos.

  

Agree. How will expats who are clever enough NOT to be on TV ever know about these changes until they go to Immigration to do their extension.

 

[Badrabbit]

In Chiang Rai today when I did my "800,00 in the bank" annual extension for retirement, they are using the new rules as effective today already.  I have to keep 800,000 Baht in the bank for three months from today, and 400,000 thereafter.  My extension wasn't due until March 3, so I extended early.

How do you prove to them that you keep the money in account for 3 months after? Will you need to go back with a bank statement?

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[Badrabbit]

I'm guessing I will have no problems as my 800k has been untouched in my thai account since July 2009.

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[Thailand]

4 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I'm guessing I will have no problems as my 800k has been untouched in my thai account since July 2009.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So do the new rules apply only to new applications or to all?

[Badrabbit]

So do the new rules apply only to new applications or to all?

I don't know but I'm sure it will be for all!

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[moe666]

On 2/7/2019 at 6:20 AM, Thailand said:

Plenty of posts but still no answer to the original question.

I guess nobody here has access to immigration bigwigs and I don't mean local office heads.

I believe there was a thread a few days ago asking if TV had requested a meeting with immigration to clarify the new orders and the response was no response from immigration

[Thailand]

27 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Slightly off-topic, but I'm still meeting people who have no idea that their embassy are no longer issuing income letters.   With extensions due in the next few months, they can longer get letters, and have not been remitting adequate funds into their Thai bank. 

 

Some are still using foreign Debit cards to withdraw their pensions and to deposit most of it into his Thai bank, keeping enough for their immediate needs.  Others I meet are happily using Transferwise to add funds as required, some months much more than required, and some months zero depending on how strong their currency (GBP) is.

 

Clearly the income method will probably not work for them, and most of them are now unable to bring in adequate funds at this late stage to meet the 800k method... Agents may be their only solution at this late stage - assuming they're still (being allowed to) operate.

 

I agree, this whole hastily rolled out cluster***k will be complete chaos.

  

Once they have sorted out the ways and means it is pretty much certain that agents and associates will be the main beneficiaries here.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Once they have sorted out the ways and means it is pretty much certain that agents and associates will be the main beneficiaries here.

Since the topic of this thread is "

New Rules- Has anyone asked senior immigration officials

 

I guess that means you have asked senior immigration officials. 

[emptypockets]

8 minutes ago, Thailand said:

So do the new rules apply only to new applications or to all?

In the context of this thread every application is a 'new' application.

You get 12 months permission to stay if successful. That is all. Then it stops.

You apply again at the appropriate time - there is no rollover of applications or previous permissions to stay.

For most people it doesn't matter if you have been here 5 minutes or many years...every application (or reapplication if you prefer that term) is 'new'.

I doubt there are too many people using the grandfathered method around anymore

[emptypockets]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:11 PM, Mavideol said:

I did spoke to the IMO manager, of a southern province /Nakhon Si,  a couple days ago and asked about the new retirement & marriage visa regulations the answer """ same, same, wait and see """ he knew about the TV forum and knew people are not happy, thus '' same, same,"

I have no doubt he and many much more senior people know about this forum.

 

From what they have seen and read from all the visa scams and workarounds discussed and in some cases promoted over the years, not to mention the apparent constant ridiculing, bordering on contempt and in some cases hatred, of the Thai people, their country, their lifestyle and institutions, it is hardly surprising that a tightening of the rules is in effect. 

 

It happened with visa runners, ED scammers etc and now it is the retirees turn.

 

Would you be happy in your country if all you ever heard was something similar to the above from foreigners who are asking for permission to reside there? I certainly would not and happily tell them to leave.

At times the forum can seem like chatting amongst acquaintances or even like having a yarn in a pub. But it is not. Everything on here and online generally speaking can be accessed and scrutinised. And is.

 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

Those expecting to immediately drawdown all or some of their money after the extension may have a problem, but - as retirees - most are likely to have access to other funds.

Surely it can only be a problem the following year when applying for a new extension.

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, steve73 said:

Agents may be their only solution at this late stage - assuming they're still (being allowed to) operate.

They are going nowhere.

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, lelapin said:

I sold a house here 2 years ago for around 5 million baht which is in my Bangkok Bank and currently aged 77 I expect to be able to draw from this for most of my remaining time on earth.

I hope that you are not suggesting I still need to bring in an additional 800k each year from England.

You qualify by simply keeping a minimum of 800k in a Thai  bank account that is accessible. The post you quoted included monthly income. 

[elviajero]

28 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Surely it can only be a problem the following year when applying for a new extension.

Not if they are expecting to be able drawdown the 800K as under current rules. They could have a cash flow problem.

[elviajero]

9 hours ago, lelapin said:

I sold a house here 2 years ago for around 5 million baht which is in my Bangkok Bank and currently aged 77 I expect to be able to draw from this for most of my remaining time on earth.

I hope that you are not suggesting I still need to bring in an additional 800k each year from England.

You will not need to bring more money in to the country until your balance gets down to 800K.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

They are going nowhere.

It is simple people. For agents, they will treat every application as a new application. Problem solved. Does the rule that gives superior officer the privilege to waive prior-seasoning still exists? I did not see any police order striking down that privilege. So, technically no problem except that agents will be charging more have to  pass more money to IOs for the privilege of waiving the pre-season money. 

[tgeezer]

Everybody must ‘get a grip’ these provisions were not intended to be analysed to this extent. If they were they wouldn’t refer to people who were on a retirement visa in October 1998 as not yet having reached the age of 60 or having reached the age of 60 twenty one years later! Nobody has actually looked at amending the rules only adding to them. It is not possible to make a rule retroactive, so the provisions for 400,000 Bt. continuously and 800,000 Bt untouched for three months can only apply from March 1st 2020 when an extension is applied for.


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[Thailand]

23 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Everybody must ‘get a grip’ these provisions were not intended to be analysed to this extent. If they were they wouldn’t refer to people who were on a retirement visa in October 1998 as not yet having reached the age of 60 or having reached the age of 60 twenty one years later! Nobody has actually looked at amending the rules only adding to them. It is not possible to make a rule retroactive, so the provisions for 400,000 Bt. continuously and 800,000 Bt untouched for three months can only apply from March 1st 2020 when an extension is applied for.


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Logic

Thailand

Immigration

Hmm.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

It is not possible to make a rule retroactive, so the provisions for 400,000 Bt. continuously and 800,000 Bt untouched for three months can only apply from March 1st 2020 when an extension is applied for.

There is no word on enforcement of the new "You cannot touch your own money after you get your extension" rules.   Maybe your current-extension is invalidated the minute your bank-balance drops below the required minimums - just as an ED, Marriage, or Work extension is Null-And-Void the day after the conditions for it's issuance are no longer met.  You must leave the country the day this occurs, get an extension (usually 7-days to "get-out"), or you are on overstay.

As well, some are being told the "new rules" take effect immediately, per:

Quote

... Today I extended for one more year using the money in the bank option, and the IO gave me a copy of the "newest new rules" effective March 1 (the "2.22 Retirement" rules posted on Thai Visa) .  But at this office, the rules are immediately effective. ...

 

When the embassy-letters went-away for many, folks said, "Well, just put money in the bank - it's easy."  Almost immediately, a new set of rules were issued rendering the "money in the bank" useless-money.  I think I see a pattern, here.

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

When the embassy-letters went-away for many, folks said, "Well, just put money in the bank - it's easy."  Almost immediately, a new set of rules were issued rendering the "money in the bank" useless-money.  I think I see a pattern, here.

Well just to say JaT that, as I may not be long for this world here on TV I am really tired of the discussion of "Well the new rules say you must do XYZ" and then the omnibus reply is "Well if you go to an agent you won't have to do XYZ".

 

It's been swell.