EU rebuffs May, says no-plan Brexiteers deserve 'place in hell'

[7by7]

25 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Those Africans Syrians and Iraqis don't arrive directly at Heathrow with visas. They come through EU countries, who appear to do little to prevent thousands of them arriving at Calais. 

 What steps the Schengen area members take to prevent refugees and non EEA national economic migrants from passing from one to another is up to them, and totally irrelevant to us in the UK.

 

Because, even if you know what the Schengen area is, you are obviously unaware that the UK is not a member!

 

It is precisely because we are not a member of the Schengen area that all those migrants stopped at Calais! If we were a Schengen member then they could have simply boarded a ferry or train and continued to the UK. But because we are not a member, they have to first pass through UK immigration or try, as many do, to enter the UK illegally.

 

Kindly explain how Brexit will change any of that.

 

32 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Merkel's million invited guests from the same sources are definitely an EU created problem. She even wanted to distribute them throughout the EU. No wonder the man in Barnsley and majority of UK voted Leave.

 

Merkel said that refugees should be allowed to stay; if they met the criteria. She encouraged other EU members to take their fair share. Would you prefer genuine refugees to be shoved back out into the Mediterranean to drown, or sent back from whence they came to be tortured or killed?

 

Remember that the problems they are fleeing were in the main created by the US and it's main EU ally; the UK.

 

The UK actually has a long history of welcoming refugees; for example the Huguenots fleeing persecution in France, Jews doing the same first from Czarist Russia and then from Nazi Germany. Many of whom spent all they had to get here.

 

The difficulty is, of course, separating the genuine refugee from the economic migrant chancer. 

 

Can you explain how Brexit will solve that conundrum?

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 What steps the Schengen area members take to prevent refugees and non EEA national economic migrants from passing from one to another is up to them, and totally irrelevant to us in the UK.

 

Because, even if you know what the Schengen area is, you are obviously unaware that the UK is not a member!

 

It is precisely because we are not a member of the Schengen area that all those migrants stopped at Calais! If we were a Schengen member then they could have simply boarded a ferry or train and continued to the UK. But because we are not a member, they have to first pass through UK immigration or try, as many do, to enter the UK illegally.

 

Kindly explain how Brexit will change any of that.

 

 

Merkel said that refugees should be allowed to stay; if they met the criteria. She encouraged other EU members to take their fair share. Would you prefer genuine refugees to be shoved back out into the Mediterranean to drown, or sent back from whence they came to be tortured or killed?

 

Remember that the problems they are fleeing were in the main created by the US and it's main EU ally; the UK.

 

The UK actually has a long history of welcoming refugees; for example the Huguenots fleeing persecution in France, Jews doing the same first from Czarist Russia and then from Nazi Germany. Many of whom spent all they had to get here.

 

The difficulty is, of course, separating the genuine refugee from the economic migrant chancer. 

 

Can you explain how Brexit will solve that conundrum?

 

dunno,

am not going to argue with you - please enjoy your time wherever you are

and do enjoy your views

 

must say though, that I find your intervention pretty far far away from today's reality

 

for UK's well being, I hope there are few like you in the UK

 

otherwise, have a Belhaven

 

 

[Loiner]

 
Merkel said that refugees should be allowed to stay; if they met the criteria. She encouraged other EU members to take their fair share. Would you prefer genuine refugees to be shoved back out into the Mediterranean to drown, or sent back from whence they came to be tortured or killed?
 
Remember that the problems they are fleeing were in the main created by the US and it's main EU ally; the UK.
 
The UK actually has a long history of welcoming refugees; for example the Huguenots fleeing persecution in France, Jews doing the same first from Czarist Russia and then from Nazi Germany. Many of whom spent all they had to get here.
 
The difficulty is, of course, separating the genuine refugee from the economic migrant chancer. 
 
Can you explain how Brexit will solve that conundrum?

For most of your sob story, that’s a whole different thread. Please deflect and throw names elsewhere. Regarding the EU:
If we are not in the EU we do not have to be allocated any of Merkel’s million.
If we are not in the EU we will never be forced to become part of Schengen. We will not be part of the ultimate free movement.


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[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Merkel's million invited guests from the same sources are definitely an EU created problem. 

Germany didn't go to war in Iraq. The UK did. When will Brexiteers start taking responsibility for their actions? 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Germany didn't go to war in Iraq. The UK did. When will Brexiteers start taking responsibility for their actions? 

 

 

UK is, and has always been, very trigger happy, several would say an experienced aggressor,

that is one of several reasons why UK does not fit in EFTA or EU.

 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

UK is, and has always been, very trigger happy, several would say an experienced aggressor,

that is one of several reasons why UK does not fit in EFTA or EU.

 

 

You are probably quite correct there melvin, we have never been happy singing from the same song sheet.

 

Thomas Kielinger gives his perspective on it, Polish born, but now a German journalist.

 

"The EU’s reluctance to come forward with a compromise is of course rooted in the inability of Europeans to understand the existential drive behind the British wish to leave in the first place. They simply can’t conceive of their British partner, so beloved across a hugely Anglophile continent, wanting to ditch its cosy alliance for the purpose of going it alone again in the world."

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/europeans-cant-understand-the-existential-drive-behind-the-british-wish-to-leave-the-eu/

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are probably quite correct there melvin, we have never been happy singing from the same song sheet.

 

Thomas Kielinger gives his perspective on it, Polish born, but now a German journalist.

 

"The EU’s reluctance to come forward with a compromise is of course rooted in the inability of Europeans to understand the existential drive behind the British wish to leave in the first place. They simply can’t conceive of their British partner, so beloved across a hugely Anglophile continent, wanting to ditch its cosy alliance for the purpose of going it alone again in the world."

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/europeans-cant-understand-the-existential-drive-behind-the-british-wish-to-leave-the-eu/

 

 

well, whatever, but

within the next month or two smth is likely to happen with that relationship

 

as always, time will show

 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

If we are not in the EU we do not have to be allocated any of Merkel’s million.
If we are not in the EU we will never be forced to become part of Schengen. We will not be part of the ultimate free movement.

We haven't been allocated any of Merkel's million, as has been explained to you.

 

We weren't forced to be part of Shengen and never would be.

 

Where do you dream these things up? Been listening to Farage or Tommy Islam?

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Do you actually live here? If not, that's probably why you don't know what a large part of Leave's referendum campaigning consisted of; or maybe you do live here but have simply chosen to ignore it.

 

A significant part of the leave campaign, both the official one and Farage's unofficial one, was about how those nasty foreigners across the channel, especially the Germans, tell us what to do and leaving the EU would mean taking our sovereignty back from said foreigners. 

 

In addition, there was the raft of anti immigration propaganda from both campaigns; Farage's being more blatant than the official campaign's, but there in both.

 

Are you really saying that none of this xenophobic campaigning had any effect? Really? Had you been in the UK and/or paying attention at the time you would know that this man was far from alone in his reason for voting Leave.

 

 

I assume you know enough to realise that all this actually has nothing to do with the EU!

 

In the two years plus since the referendum, the real pros and cons of EU membership have been discussed ad nauseum in the UK media.  The fact that no one in the Leave campaign had any idea about how to continue trading with our largest partner, the EU, let alone the rest of the world most of whom we traded with via agreements made with the EU, should we leave pretty quickly became obvious. The UK public are far more educated on the realities of Remain and Leave; although there are doubtless still those like the above man whose xenophobia is so strong that they will once again ignore the real issues should Parliament take the democratic option of giving the people the final say.

 

 

 

 

You don't have play the victim and racist card which I find a weak argument and offensive. I will reply properly tomorrow.

[Loiner]

Germany didn't go to war in Iraq. The UK did. When will Brexiteers start taking responsibility for their actions? 
 
 

LMFAO
There must be some warped and twisted logic in there somewhere. Then again maybe not, given the poster.
How and why could anyone believe Brexiteers are responsible for war in Iraq? What kind of Brexiteer action could have forced hoards of Iraqi young male scroungers to abandon their women and children, to walk to Germany?


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[Loiner]

We haven't been allocated any of Merkel's million, as has been explained to you.
 
We weren't forced to be part of Shengen and never would be.
 
Where do you dream these things up? Been listening to Farage or Tommy Islam?

And so long as we Leave the EU, we never will be.
Just making sure!


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[welovesundaysatspace]

46 minutes ago, Loiner said:

LMFAO
There must be some warped and twisted logic in there somewhere. Then again maybe not, given the poster.
How and why could anyone believe Brexiteers are responsible for war in Iraq? What kind of Brexiteer action could have forced hoards of Iraqi young male scroungers to abandon their women and children, to walk to Germany?

You can take responsibility for something that your country has done. Germans still do it regarding the Holocaust. You do the opposite; you try to blame Merkel for something that was caused by the UK (and others) when she wasn’t even in charge of anything. And since I haven’t heard this from remainers but only from Brexiteers, I am asking when Brexiteers will start to take responsibility. 

[tebee]

[melvinmelvin]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

I'll give PM TM this

she is not one to easily give in, fairly persistent she is

[Laughing Gravy]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Do you actually live here? If not, that's probably why you don't know what a large part of Leave's referendum campaigning consisted of; or maybe you do live here but have simply chosen to ignore it.

 

A significant part of the leave campaign, both the official one and Farage's unofficial one, was about how those nasty foreigners across the channel, especially the Germans, tell us what to do and leaving the EU would mean taking our sovereignty back from said foreigners. 

 

In addition, there was the raft of anti immigration propaganda from both campaigns; Farage's being more blatant than the official campaign's, but there in both.

 

Are you really saying that none of this xenophobic campaigning had any effect? Really? Had you been in the UK and/or paying attention at the time you would know that this man was far from alone in his reason for voting Leave.

 

 

I assume you know enough to realise that all this actually has nothing to do with the EU!

 

In the two years plus since the referendum, the real pros and cons of EU membership have been discussed ad nauseum in the UK media.  The fact that no one in the Leave campaign had any idea about how to continue trading with our largest partner, the EU, let alone the rest of the world most of whom we traded with via agreements made with the EU, should we leave pretty quickly became obvious. The UK public are far more educated on the realities of Remain and Leave; although there are doubtless still those like the above man whose xenophobia is so strong that they will once again ignore the real issues should Parliament take the democratic option of giving the people the final say.

 

 

 

 

Same old rhetoric. People didn't know what they voted for. They are uneducated. It was about immigration. It would seem all justifications for some posters to say you were wrong. Lets have another vote.

 

You do play the racist card at every opportunity. It doesn't matter what some people may have or may not have campaigned for. I didn't even care. i voted leave for my reasons. nothing to do with immigration although I had seen the way the UK has gone and not in a good direction IMHO.

 

i find it ironic that in a Thai forum where I assume many people live/have lived there or visit regularly know the immigration laws there.

 

I lived there for 17 years working and will live there again. In that time every year I had my qualifications checked and experience. I had to report every 90 days. I was an alien and accepted that. I didn't put my nose in Thai politics or affairs as , we can't frankly. I am was/will be a guest in a country that has dubious dealings but I accept it. If not i would leave.

 

I am married to a Thai and have been since I first went there. Hardly a racist.  As a poster you always use that. I would suggest you don't, as with religion it is a very weak and feeble argument

 

You keep arguing in the leave campaign. It is over. move on from it. the UK public are certainly more informed as a whole on how the EU operate. Educated is not the word I would use. If anyone disagrees with you they are a xenophobe. It is getting quite tedious now. Putting a video of one man and his views does not represent everyone, you seem to be copying the BBC tactic which is very transparent and very weak as an argument.

 

[Spidey]

16 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Same old rhetoric. People didn't know what they voted for. They are uneducated. It was about immigration. It would seem all justifications for some posters to say you were wrong. Lets have another vote.

 

You do play the racist card at every opportunity. It doesn't matter what some people may have or may not have campaigned for. I didn't even care. i voted leave for my reasons. nothing to do with immigration although I had seen the way the UK has gone and not in a good direction IMHO.

 

i find it ironic that in a Thai forum where I assume many people live/have lived there or visit regularly know the immigration laws there.

 

I lived there for 17 years working and will live there again. In that time every year I had my qualifications checked and experience. I had to report every 90 days. I was an alien and accepted that. I didn't put my nose in Thai politics or affairs as , we can't frankly. I am was/will be a guest in a country that has dubious dealings but I accept it. If not i would leave.

 

I am married to a Thai and have been since I first went there. Hardly a racist.  As a poster you always use that. I would suggest you don't, as with religion it is a very weak and feeble argument

 

You keep arguing in the leave campaign. It is over. move on from it. the UK public are certainly more informed as a whole on how the EU operate. Educated is not the word I would use. If anyone disagrees with you they are a xenophobe. It is getting quite tedious now. Putting a video of one man and his views does not represent everyone, you seem to be copying the BBC tactic which is very transparent and very weak as an argument.

 

So basically, what you are saying is that if anyone disagrees with your view, they should shut up.

 

I can think of a few other people who have , famously, taken that line.

 

Donald Trump, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, to name but a few. You're in good company.

[Laughing Gravy]

20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

So basically, what you are saying is that if anyone disagrees with your view, they should shut up.

The exact opposite. it is what the poster says about me and other leavers.

 

If you have a different point of view fine. Don't use, the race card, education level or you didn't know what you are voting for as reasons. They are not.

[Loiner]

You can take responsibility for something that your country has done. Germans still do it regarding the Holocaust. You do the opposite; you try to blame Merkel for something that was caused by the UK (and others) when she wasn’t even in charge of anything. And since I haven’t heard this from remainers but only from Brexiteers, I am asking when Brexiteers will start to take responsibility. 

My country has absolutely no responsibility for the mass migration of millions of young Muslim males. Brexiteers have even less.
Angela Merkel holds more than her fair share of responsibility, after making her open door policy. ‘Come to the EU boys.’
Left luvvies, MSM and bleeding hearts bearing ‘Refugees Welcome Here’ placards, Hood some responsibly.
I will never take any responsibility for any of them, and strongly resent any of my taxes being given to them.


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[Spidey]

20 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The exact opposite. it is what the poster says about me and other leavers.

 

If you have a different point of view fine. Don't use, the race card, education level or you didn't know what you are voting for as reasons. They are not.

It's just the popular opinion on brexiteers and their motives. We are allowed to voice our opinions, aren't we?

[welovesundaysatspace]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

My country has absolutely no responsibility for the mass migration of millions of young Muslim males. Brexiteers have even less.
Angela Merkel holds more than her fair share of responsibility, after making her open door policy. ‘Come to the EU boys.’
Left luvvies, MSM and bleeding hearts bearing ‘Refugees Welcome Here’ placards, Hood some responsibly.
I will never take any responsibility for any of them, and strongly resent any of my taxes being given to them.


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Brexiteers shifting the blame again. That’s what you’re good at. Fxcking things up and then point on those who have to deal with your mess. Just to make it clear again: Merkel didn’t go to war in Iraq. The UK did. Take responsibility for your action. You caused this mass migration. 

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

It's just the popular opinion on brexiteers and their motives. We are allowed to voice our opinions, aren't we?

Well if you want to voice your opinion that brexiteers are stupid, racists, didn't know what they were voted for, voted leave on immigration then go ahead, as so many here seem to do. If you want to be taken seriously then voice your opinions with better answers, as the ones I have just mentioned are used far too often and are incorrect.

 

Shouting down at people also doesn't help either and it seems to be a standard from politicians to posters here on TV.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if you want to voice your opinion that brexiteers are stupid, racists, didn't know what they were voted for, voted leave on immigration then go ahead, as so many here seem to do. If you want to be taken seriously then voice your opinions with better answers, as the ones I have just mentioned are used far too often and are incorrect.

 

Shouting down at people also doesn't help either and it seems to be a standard from politicians to posters here on TV.

Your efforts to refute the claims of racism amongst Brexiteers are being undermined by your fellow Brexiteers and their fixation on immigrants, Muslims and refugees:

 

It takes a special kind of denial to claim that Brexit is not supported by racist and that racists are predominantly supporters of Brexit.

 

30 minutes ago, Loiner said:

My country has absolutely no responsibility for the mass migration of millions of young Muslim males. Brexiteers have even less.
Angela Merkel holds more than her fair share of responsibility, after making her open door policy. ‘Come to the EU boys.’
Left luvvies, MSM and bleeding hearts bearing ‘Refugees Welcome Here’ placards, Hood some responsibly.
I will never take any responsibility for any of them, and strongly resent any of my taxes being given to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[wayned]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if you want to voice your opinion that brexiteers are stupid, racists, didn't know what they were voted for, voted leave on immigration then go ahead, as so many here seem to do. If you want to be taken seriously then voice your opinions with better answers, as the ones I have just mentioned are used far too often and are incorrect.

 

Shouting down at people also doesn't help either and it seems to be a standard from politicians to posters here on TV.

I'm American, so I really don't have a say that matters.

 

Having said that I would think that the UK Parliament would demand another referendum and lay out for the people what exactly Brexit means to them and hoe their lives will be affected and let them choose whether or not they still want it now that they know the details.  May's comment about not having another referendum because they already voted for it is total BS as the public were not aware of what the details were at the time of the initial vote and were led by political BS.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your efforts to refute the claims of racism amongst Brexiteers are being undermined by your fellow Brexiteers and their fixation on immigrants, Muslims and refugees:

 

It takes a special kind of denial to claim that Brexit is not supported by racist and that racists are predominantly supported of Brexit.

There you go again tarnishing everyone with the same brush. Is it to justify that you have a different opinion and to sound justifiable. playing the race card is cheap, very cheap. You carry on as your only means to arguing the reason people voted leave. It is an extremely narrow narrative and one that is unsubstantiated.

 

It would seem that this seems a justification that the leave vote is wrong. It is that narrow-mindedness that has caused the people of the UK to vote leave along with other issues. Don't bother replying as I wont to you. Playing the racist card is the lowest of the low and doesn't warrant a suitable response as it has been done to death here yet some still are trying to use it. What a shame.

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, wayned said:

I'm American, so I really don't have a say that matters.

That statement is very true as I am sure you have not followed what has happened for the last 44 years.

 

6 minutes ago, wayned said:

Having said that I would think that the UK Parliament would demand another referendum and lay out for the people what exactly Brexit means to them and hoe their lives will be affected and let them choose whether or not they still want it now that they know the details.

This goes to my reply at the top.  It hasn't been implemented yet and people want to overthrow the decision.

 

So should people have another vote on the Election in the US because Trump is doing things what people didn't think would happen? If the answer is yes then we have nothing more to discuss.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

There you go again tarnishing everyone with the same brush. Is it to justify that you have a different opinion and to sound justifiable. playing the race card is cheap, very cheap. You carry on as your only means to arguing the reason people voted leave. It is an extremely narrow narrative and one that is unsubstantiated.

 

It would seem that this seems a justification that the leave vote is wrong. It is that narrow-mindedness that has caused the people of the UK to vote leave along with other issues. Don't bother replying as I wont to you. Playing the racist card is the lowest of the low and doesn't warrant a suitable response as it has been done to death here yet some still are trying to use it. What a shame.

I didn’t tarnish everyone with anything, I pointed out the glaring existence of racists and racism within the Brexit camp.

 

”It seems that it seems”

 

Or put another way, I’ve said no such thing but you wish to imply I have.

 

I’ll take the objections of ‘non-racist’ Brexiteers more seriously when I see them challenging racists remarks by other Brexit supporters.

[wayned]

11 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That statement is very true as I am sure you have not followed what has happened for the last 44 years.

 

This goes to my reply at the top.  It hasn't been implemented yet and people want to overthrow the decision.

 

So should people have another vote on the Election in the US because Trump is doing things what people didn't think would happen? If the answer is yes then we have nothing more to discuss.

We have nothing more to discuss so you know what my answer is!

[Laughing Gravy]

Luckily not all remainers seem to tarnish brexiteers as racists. Maybe this will spread across this Forum. Here is hoping!

 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/features/lindy-mcdowell-i-am-a-remainer-but-its-so-wrong-to-sneer-at-brexiteers-as-racist-old-thick-male-and-irrelevant-37463008.html

 

"Unlike the protesters, however, I accept the democratic outcome of that fateful referendum. I don't like it. But as has been said before many times, there already has been a People's Vote. And 17.4 million people won that one.

 

The suggestion now though is that we need a rerun because, unlike the Remainers, those 17.4 million people weren't quite... you know... as clever, or as "decent" or as important as Pret People's Voters.

They may even be the sort of people who eat pastie suppers and think nothing of elbowing aside genteel citizens in their rush for the ketchup.

 

The battle of Brexit has been divisive and rancid. But one of the aspects which I've found most disquieting (and I say this as a Remain voter) has been the widespread tendency - typified by that tweet but certainly not confined to it - to infer that anti-Brexiteers are somehow intrinsically better."

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/voted-leave-eu-racist-idiot-intolerance-brexiters

 

"Sadly, many remain voters care little for the reasoning or rationale behind the decision of Brexit voters. I’ve seen Brexiters being grouped together and called “idiot”, “racist”, and other derogatory terms, simply by virtue of being Brexit voters. Their rationale is redundant, and their motives irrelevant. The only thing being placed on trial is the positioning of their X on the ballot paper."

 

[Loiner]

Brexiteers shifting the blame again. That’s what you’re good at. Fxcking things up and then point on those who have to deal with your mess. Just to make it clear again: Merkel didn’t go to war in Iraq. The UK did. Take responsibility for your action. You caused this mass migration. 

Brexiteers have never made a war anywhere. They weren’t even ‘invented’ until about 2015.

Who was PM for the last Iraq war? Wasn’t it Tony B.liar, lefty and arch Remainer?


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[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, wayned said:

We have nothing more to discuss so you know what my answer is!

A true believer in democracy then! It was a statement not a question.