What is changing at Bangkok Bank?

[Thomas J]

I am a USA citizen and have an account with Bangkok Bank Thailand. I went to the branch in Big C to ask about having an ACH to their New York branch and then credited to Thailand. I wanted to know the procedure and if the transfer would be coded as a foreign deposit. I might as well have been asking one of the dogs on the street. They were clueless to what I would have thought would be a routine question working with expatriates. Can someone explain the procedure and what is supposedly changing that will negate being able to use Bangkok bank in that way to meet the $65k monthly baht requirement?

[asdfrules]

Try the branch near Sukhumvit soi 8.  Go upstairs.  In my experience they are more knowledgeable than most branches, and they handle foreigners often.

 

I believe the instructions you need can be found on their website:

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

The other questions, I can only guess that it would be considered a foreign deposit, because AFIK the NY branch is a legit US bank branch.  I haven't done this exactly but it's a similar situation with my Canadian bank having a branch in the US, it's considered a legit US bank whenever you transfer and do stuff.

Edited February 7, 2019 by asdfrules

[KhunBENQ]

All that I can contribute is this from the Bangkok Bank site:

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

You will get more response based on experience.

 

Visiting micro branch at Big C and asking "routine question" about "ACH to New York branch"

Yes, some dogs are thankful for conversation.

Edited February 7, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[Mango Bob]

Effective 1 Apr 19 Bangkok Bank will not be doing ACH any more.   Read this page https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

Most banks are not doing the International ACH.  I know mine and many other banks are not.  Check this out it starts soon.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Thomas J]

25 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Effective 1 Apr 19 Bangkok Bank will not be doing ACH any more.   Read this page https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

Most banks are not doing the International ACH.  I know mine and many other banks are not.  Check this out it starts soon.

I have read the article and I still don't see that they have discontinued the service.  I have my social security deposited into Chase.  I can ACH it to Bangkok Bank New York.  If I do, will Bangkok Bank New York allow me to transfer to Bankgok Bank Thailand and show that transfer as an International Transfer.  My deposit at Bangkok Bank would not be directly from the treasury but rather through JP Morgan Chase. 

[Thailand J]

15 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I have read the article and I still don't see that they have discontinued the service.  I have my social security deposited into Chase.  I can ACH it to Bangkok Bank New York.  If I do, will Bangkok Bank New York allow me to transfer to Bankgok Bank Thailand and show that transfer as an International Transfer.  My deposit at Bangkok Bank would not be directly from the treasury but rather through JP Morgan Chase.

" Effective from April 1, 2019, Bangkok Bank, New York branch will fully comply with the NACHA rules and will return all ACH received which do not comply with the IAT format.    "

 

Chase to Bangkok Bank NY is most likely ACH not IAT so the money will bounce back.

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

" Effective from April 1, 2019, Bangkok Bank, New York branch will fully comply with the NACHA rules and will return all ACH received which do not comply with the IAT format.    "

 

Chase to Bangkok Bank NY is most likely ACH not IAT so the money will bounce back.

That would seem strange.  It would mean that Bangkok bank would essentially be refusing ACH transactions from virtually all of the U.S. banks unless the U.S. banks are all universally making their ACH transactions in conformity with IAT format. 

 

[Thailand J]

yep. I hope you have plan B.

[Puchaiyank]

Checkout Transferwise...I send money from US bank directly into my Bangkok Bank account every month with no problems thus far...

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, Puchaiyank said:

Checkout Transferwise...I send money from US bank directly into my Bangkok Bank account every month with no problems thus far...

What does it cost you. I would be transferring enough each month to cover the $65k baht minimum. 

[Puchaiyank]

6 hours ago, Thomas J said:

What does it cost you. I would be transferring enough each month to cover the $65k baht minimum. 

Figure about 1% of USD...$1,000 around $10.  $2,000 around $20...

 

Once you setup and make a transfer...you can simply duplicate the next xfer.  Exchange rates are much better than banks and the difference may pay for transfer.

 

Good Luck!

Edited February 7, 2019 by Puchaiyank
Ok

[Pib]

16 hours ago, Thomas J said:

I have read the article and I still don't see that they have discontinued the service.  I have my social security deposited into Chase.  I can ACH it to Bangkok Bank New York.  If I do, will Bangkok Bank New York allow me to transfer to Bankgok Bank Thailand and show that transfer as an International Transfer.  My deposit at Bangkok Bank would not be directly from the treasury but rather through JP Morgan Chase. 

ACH transfers from your US bank to Bangkok Bank will continue to work until 1 Apr 19.  At that time, unless your bank uses ACH "International ACH Transaction" (IAT) format which US banks/credit unions do not use for retail accounts (they do use for some corporate/business accounts), the transfer will be rejected by Bangkok Bank.  US banks/credit unions for retail accounts just use ACH Domestic format also called ACH PPD (Prearranged Payment & Deposit) format.   

 

The ACH IAT format is more detailed with different underlying coding than the ACH Domestic format.  ACH IAT requires more info on the sender and receiver along with different coding.  They are just different.    

 

This change is driven by the US Treasury and National ACH Association rules which went in effect years ago; however, Bangkok Bank has just been slow to implement....tried looking the other way until they couldn't no longer without the US Treasury biting them.   Yes, Bangkok Bank knows they will be losing a lot of transfer fees but they have no choice. 

 

And when it gets rejected the probable ACH rejection code to flow back to your bank/sender will be:

R85 -

Incorrectly Coded Outbound International Payment

Edited February 8, 2019 by Pib

[Thomas J]

Finally an answer that I can understand.  I guess I could check with Chase to see if they can or will use the IAT format.  If they do, how do the funds get transferred from Bankgok Bank New York to Bangkok Bank Thailand?  Or does the ACH to Bangkok Bank New York contain my Thailand Account number and Bangkok Bank New York just automatically credits it? 

[Pib]

42 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Finally an answer that I can understand.  I guess I could check with Chase to see if they can or will use the IAT format.  If they do, how do the funds get transferred from Bankgok Bank New York to Bangkok Bank Thailand?  Or does the ACH to Bangkok Bank New York contain my Thailand Account number and Bangkok Bank New York just automatically credits it? 

Don't worry what method Bangkok Bank NY uses to relay the money to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.  Actually I think they use SWIFT from NY to Thailand because late last year the SSA overpaid a family member of mine (SSA sends uses ACH).  A week later the SSA sent an recall to Bangkok Bank NY to get the over payment back....the family member got a call from our local Bangkok Bank branch that the SSA had recalled the over payment deposited to her Bangkok Bank account...needed her to come in and sign a doc so Bangkok Bank could have something in writing the customer knew of the recall.  The  family member and I went to the bank....I read the recall message....it was a SWIFT message....had SWIFT right at the top).  Wife signed the doc....bank sent the money back.  How they send it back I don't know...SWIFT, ACH, carrier pigeon, don't know....it just got sent back.  All I can say is Bangkok Bank NY used a SWIFT message to the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch to do the recall.

 

The key for an ACH transfer to get thru starting 1 Apr 19 is to get thru the Bangkok Bank "New York" screening as the NY branch is the middle man/screen point for ACH transfers.   When the funds arrive/try to pass thru the NY branch their automated system screens the transfers by simply keying in on the SEC code....if that codes is "IAT" the transfer continues on to Thailand; if no IAT code, it gets rejected back to the send.  

 

When you talk to Chase "be sure" they understand you are asking do/if they "sent" funds via ACH "IAT" as all US banks have been able to "receive" IAT transfers since around 2013.  And hope you get a Chase customer support rep that really understands what you are asking as they may only know ACH....but nothing about the difference between ACH Domestic and ACT IAT.    It's just US banks do not use ACH IAT format to send....instead they use SWIFT....nice little cash cow for them.  Now I fully expect does offer IAT for its corporate/business accounts which is a different animal from a retail account.

 

 

[Thomas J]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

When you talk to Chase "be sure" they understand you are asking do/if they "sent" funds via ACH "IAT" as all US banks have been able to "receive" IAT transfers since around 2013.  And hope you get a Chase customer support rep that really understands what you are asking as they may only know ACH....but nothing about the difference between ACH Domestic and ACT IAT.    It's just US banks do not use ACH IAT format to send....instead they use SWIFT....nice little cash cow for them.  Now I fully expect does offer IAT for its corporate/business accounts which is a different animal from a retail account.

I am a former banker at several major U.S. banks but on the Trust side of the banks.  When I worked on the retail side, there was no such thing as an ACH only wire transfers.  I think I will have a better chance having a Chase representative understand than someone here at any of the Thai banks.  It seems as though the personnel at any of the branch offices have a very limited knowledge of anything other than the most routine transactions.  You have been most helpful,  Thank You. 

[OneZero]

Quote Pib  "The key for an ACH transfer to get thru starting 1 Apr 19 is to get thru the Bangkok Bank "New York" screening as the NY branch is the middle man/screen point for ACH transfers.   When the funds arrive/try to pass thru the NY branch their automated system screens the transfers by simply keying in on the SEC code....if that codes is "IAT" the transfer continues on to Thailand; if no IAT code, it gets rejected back to the send."  

 

Pib thanks for the explanation.  Now that I understand what is happening I'd also like to understand: 

1. What is USG Motivation" in the format requirement that Bangkok Bank is no longer able to avoid compliance with?

2. Following that, why cannot either:

  a. USG be able to relent a bit on what appear to us to be the draconian nature of the requirement;

  b. The US & Thai banks (in this case BKK Bk only I guess) use info we can supply for the required format?

 

 

[OneZero]

Plus Plus Plus, this reluctance to "Adjust" comes at exactly the time that that  Immigration is getting hard nosed on proof 65K / month.   Talk about irony or the "Perfect Storm".

Edited February 8, 2019 by OneZero

[Thomas J]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

ACH transfers from your US bank to Bangkok Bank will continue to work until 1 Apr 19.  At that time, unless your bank uses ACH "International ACH Transaction" (IAT) format which US banks/credit unions do not use for retail accounts (they do use for some corporate/business accounts), the transfer will be rejected by Bangkok Bank.  US banks/credit unions for retail accounts just use ACH Domestic format also called ACH PPD (Prearranged Payment & Deposit) format.   

 

The ACH IAT format is more detailed with different underlying coding than the ACH Domestic format.  ACH IAT requires more info on the sender and receiver along with different coding.  They are just different.    

 

This change is driven by the US Treasury and National ACH Association rules which went in effect years ago; however, Bangkok Bank has just been slow to implement....tried looking the other way until they couldn't no longer without the US Treasury biting them.   Yes, Bangkok Bank knows they will be losing a lot of transfer fees but they have no choice. 

 

And when it gets rejected the probable ACH rejection code to flow back to your bank/sender will be:

R85 -

Incorrectly Coded Outbound International Payment

 

1 hour ago, OneZero said:

1. What is USG Motivation" in the format requirement that Bangkok Bank is no longer able to avoid compliance with?

It is my understanding that the IAT format allows the U.S. government to more comprehensive monitoring of foreign transfers.  I would guess the motive is twofold.  One to combat drugs/money laundering and two to monitor U.S. citizens who have accounts overseas.  Some years back under Obama the U.S. government gave the Swiss banks and ultimatum.  Open up your account records to the U.S. government of U.S. citizens with accounts there or close down your U.S. operations.  The value to UBS and Credit Suisse of the U.S. banking operations was greater than the loss of their U.S. customers overseas so the "swiss secret numbered" accounts were divulged.  Today, Panama has become the haven since Panama does not have banks in the U.S. that can be strong armed.  Essentially it is Big Brother is Watching. 

[OneZero]

That is what I thought.  Terrorism funding too; as well as tax compliance.

 

Unfortunately for US citizens this reluctance to "Adjust" comes at exactly the Immigration is getting hard nosed on proof 65K / month.   Talk about irony or the "Perfect Storm".

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, OneZero said:

That is what I thought.  Terrorism funding too; as well as tax compliance.

 

Unfortunately for US citizens this reluctance to "Adjust" comes at exactly the Immigration is getting hard nosed on proof 65K / month.   Talk about irony or the "Perfect Storm".

You can blame though Bangkok Bank for not upgrading their systems.  The U.S. government issued the need to comply with IAT back in 2014 and apparently Bangkok Bank just dragged its feet until the U.S. government told them that they needed to either comply of stop.  You can in my opinion also fault Thailand for changing the rules and suddenly demand that embassies from other countries audit the income of their citizens before issuing affidavits.  Since it is a requirement of Thailand, it seems only reasonable that Thailand immigration not the embassies are the ones to review and validate the income of people entering the country.  Thai immigration already reviews documents to prove residence, prior marriages, divorces, criminal backgrounds, etc.  Seems like getting 12 months worth of bank statements or a certified letter from the retirees bank attesting to the monthly income is not that difficult.  It just appears as though Thailand wants the foreign deposits into Thai banks.  Consider, they make it easy to get money into Thailand and extremely difficult to get out particularly for Thai citizens. 

[Pib]

3 hours ago, OneZero said:

Quote Pib  "The key for an ACH transfer to get thru starting 1 Apr 19 is to get thru the Bangkok Bank "New York" screening as the NY branch is the middle man/screen point for ACH transfers.   When the funds arrive/try to pass thru the NY branch their automated system screens the transfers by simply keying in on the SEC code....if that codes is "IAT" the transfer continues on to Thailand; if no IAT code, it gets rejected back to the send."  

 

Pib thanks for the explanation.  Now that I understand what is happening I'd also like to understand: 

1. What is USG Motivation" in the format requirement that Bangkok Bank is no longer able to avoid compliance with?

2. Following that, why cannot either:

  a. USG be able to relent a bit on what appear to us to be the draconian nature of the requirement;

  b. The US & Thai banks (in this case BKK Bk only I guess) use info we can supply for the required format?

 

IAT is nothing new....google ACH IAT and you come upon documents going back to 2009.  Take a look at below 2009 document...go to the link below to read the entire six page document in Q& A format.  Below snapshot are the first few Q&As.   

 

Bangkok Bank is just been "s......l......o.....w" in complying...but they are not the only ones which have been dragging feet using loopholes....even several Philippines banks still route payment using ACH thru their Los Angeles and Guam branches on to the Philippines....I expect there are others also. 

 

http://www.bmocm.com/products/treasury/cashmanagement/iat/resource/images/Detailed_FAQs.pdf