The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The translation that was posted in the topic chopped off part of the cover letter for the order. Check messages for more info.

 

Yes, thanks Joe...

 

My wife was particularly interested to read in Jackthip's TH memo on 35/2019 (2562) where he's explaining how it's "expedient" to update the Immigration rules on extension of stay in order to prevent foreigners from committing offenses or international crime or being a criminal that may affect national security and image of the country....

 

Nice to know how we're being thought of here, lately....

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Moon37]

3 hours ago, billsmart said:

No, it's even worse than that... ???? And, I'm from the US, so I'm in the same boat as you regarding this situation.

The INTERNATIONAL bank deposits (and make sure you note the "INTERNATIONAL" part) will only work for extensions in 2019. After that, only THB 800K in the bank will qualify for US,  UK,  and any others who can't get an embassy letter.

That's what I was told Friday at my Immigration Office in Phetchabun.

MY System fell off line and am back up.  For anyone who is using Bangkok Bank NYC to move funds to Bangkok Bank BKK, effective 1 Apr 2019, they will not transfer anything unless it is in International  ACH transfer (IAT) Direct Deposit format with the receiver's thai name address etc all included.  However, to set up a IAT DD you have to find a bank that does IATs as described by Bangkok Bank.  However it appears that ONLYthe US Government (Dept of Treasury)can set up a direct-deposit IAT via Social Security, DVA most USG Agencies etc .   It's too much effort and too many restrictions.  Which method is there to bypass this Bangkok Bank IAT direct process (and I would thing that the Royal Thai Depart Commerce would  make it - one-tie-all-tie.   

 

(See attach SF1199A)

 

Which method is a one time set up from my personal bank to Bangkok Bangkok, Thailand?  Thanks.  If there's no good answer, is it legal to start a petition to the US Embassy for some kind of exception if certain US sourced pensions are presented?

sf11999a.pdf

[billsmart]

3 minutes ago, Moon37 said:

MY System fell off line and am back up.  For anyone who is using Bangkok Bank NYC to move funds to Bangkok Bank BKK, effective 1 Apr 2019, they will not transfer anything unless it is in International  ACH transfer (IAT) Direct Deposit format with the receiver's thai name address etc all included.  However, to set up a IAT DD you have to find a bank that does IATs as described by Bangkok Bank.  However it appears that ONLYthe US Government (Dept of Treasury)can set up a direct-deposit IAT via Social Security, DVA most USG Agencies etc .   It's too much effort and too many restrictions.  Which method is there to bypass this Bangkok Bank IAT direct process (and I would thing that the Royal Thai Depart Commerce would  make it - one-tie-all-tie.   

 

(See attach SF1199A)

 

Which method is a one time set up from my personal bank to Bangkok Bangkok, Thailand?  Thanks.  If there's no good answer, is it legal to start a petition to the US Embassy for some kind of exception if certain US sourced pensions are presented?

sf11999a.pdf 140.79 kB · 0 downloads

...and again, I state, that I was told the option of providing documentation from your bank verifying monthly, international transfers will only be accepted through 2019. In 2020, the only acceptable method of verifying monthly income according to the paperwork I was given will be a letter from your embassy. ????

[Mango Bob]

The more people say here the more confused this procedure becomes.   

[Mango Bob]

Reference that form SF1199A.  How about I get social security, I am retired US Army and I am also Civil Service Retirement.   Do I submit three of them since I can't check more than one?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Reference that form SF1199A.  How about I get social security, I am retired US Army and I am also Civil Service Retirement.   Do I submit three of them since I can't check more than one?

You have to do 3 separate forms. And be sure you use Thai address on them to insure it is sent as in the IAT format.

For social security you have to set up a direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, mngmn said:

Where do you suggest KFC?

If you are in Chiang Mai, I can guide you to the best tenderloin pork steak ( 129 baht ) or a spaghetti marinara to die for ( 150 baht ) or Korean bulgogi hot pot ( 250 baht ). KFC? Wash your mouth out with soap, please.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to do 3 separate forms. And be sure you use Thai address on them to insure it is sent as in the IAT format.

For social security you have to set up a direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank.

And having a Thai address on file with SSA does not insure the payment will be in IAT format.  I have a family member receiving SS pension, has had a Thai address on-file from the get-go, but the payment to Bangkok Bank is not arriving in IAT format.

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, billsmart said:

and again, I state, that I was told the option of providing documentation from your bank verifying monthly, international transfers will only be accepted through 2019. In 2020, the only acceptable method of verifying monthly income according to the paperwork I was given will be a letter from your embassy. ????

That is not correct information that you were given by your local immigration office. As wrote in your topic they apparently did get or read the amendment done in December to the police order. 

The order clearly stated clearly it went into immediate effect.

[ChouDoufu]

(some of) it makes sense.  immigration wants to see that you are able to support yourself.  if you're applying for visa/extension for retirement, well, retired means......retired, right?  so....not working?

 

in their minds, either you have a big pot of money back home, or you're collecting a pension.  so they give you two options....deposit a chunk of money in a thai bank or prove you have a minimum monthly pension income that (rounded) is the equivalent sum over one year.

 

they must have known for some time that some embassy certifications are worthless if proof of income is not required.  just a matter of time before the requirements were enforced.

 

does this mean the other embassies actually require documentation to prove monthly income?  if so, then letting retirees from four countries get by with just transfers would be a reward for their embassies not providing the required certification.  you could simply recycle the same funds (minus expenses) every month.  in that case, immigration would feel it reasonable to allow a transition period where one could use swift transfers, and then transition to requiring proof of a pension.

 

how do you prove a pension when the embassy won't/can't do it?  how do you certify a diploma?  if they go that route, most would have to, or want to, switch to money in the bank.

[puukao]

2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

how do you prove a pension when the embassy won't/can't do it?  how do you certify a diploma?  if they go that route, most would have to, or want to, switch to money in the bank.

great, now i want to eat some choudoufu......tell some chinese friends to open a store.  it's not smelly, and quite tasty.  

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

does this mean the other embassies actually require documentation to prove monthly income?  if so, then letting retirees from four countries get by with just transfers would be a reward for their embassies not providing the required certification. 

The British Embassy did require documentation. The same as the embassies tat continue to provide embassy letters.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

On the other hand, the first four pages definitely are legit documents from BKK... However, those first four pages don't contain the same details as in the last two pages, leaving open the question of whether those last two unsigned pages are the written interpretation of your local Immigration office.

I agree= Phetchabun Imm has misinterpreted the National Police Order and are confused-  The last 2 pages appear to be locally drawn. there is no other office or the Thai Imm site that has even hinted that the income method would be discontinued in 2020 and in fact other offices have said to individual applicants that in 2020 they need to show 12 months of deposits -65K when applying for extension.

[billsmart]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct information that you were given by your local immigration office. As wrote in your topic they apparently did get or read the amendment done in December to the police order. 

The order clearly stated clearly it went into immediate effect.

Ubonjoe, I know that's your opinion on this, but it's not mine. I am very confident about what I was given and told last Friday. You can ignore it at your own peril. Or, the best thing, is to go down to your local Immigration office and ask for yourself.

[mngmn]

27 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you are in Chiang Mai, I can guide you to the best tenderloin pork steak ( 129 baht ) or a spaghetti marinara to die for ( 150 baht ) or Korean bulgogi hot pot ( 250 baht ). KFC? Wash your mouth out with soap, please.

Thanks for the offer but when I first came to Thailand in the 80s Thai street food was to die for. The point of my post is that the food here has become very mediocre and so why worry unnecessarily about visa requirements?

 

[billsmart]

19 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The British Embassy did require documentation. The same as the embassies tat continue to provide embassy letters.

The US Embassy did not require any documentation. You could tell them you get a million a month, and you'd still get the letter. It was just what we call a "notarized" letter. All that the notary attests to is that you are who you say you are, and that you did swear what you wrote was true. They don't check on it, and the notary is no guarantee that it's true.

[billsmart]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I agree= Phetchabun Imm has misinterpreted the National Police Order and are confused-  The last 2 pages appear to be locally drawn. there is no other office or the Thai Imm site that has even hinted that the income method would be discontinued in 2020 and in fact other offices have said to individual applicants that in 2020 they need to show 12 months of deposits -65K when applying for extension.

The crux of the matter is not whether the income method will be discontinued. It will not. It's the PROOF of that income (pension) that is at question. I asked this question over and over again, and there was no doubt about what I was told and what is backed up by the paperwork, all the paperwork, they gave me. A letter from your embassy is the only proof they will accept of your monthly pension, but a dispensation has been made for the rest of 2019 (at least in Phetchabun) which will allow them to accept an official document from your bank showing the monthly, international deposits. I challenged this over and over again on Friday, and like I said, there was a young, Australian woman, a student, who had been assigned to help them, and she helped me form the questions and interpret the answers. And, I was asked to initial a roster that indicated I was briefed on the new rules.

There is no mention in any of the paperwork I was given of international bank deposits because, I was told and believe this, they will not be acceptable proof beginning in 2020.

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart
Added some information.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

The US Embassy did not require any documentation. You could tell them you get a million a month, and you'd still get the letter. It was just what we call a "notarized" letter. All that the notary attests to is that you are who you say you are, and that you did swear what you wrote was true. They don't check on it, and the notary is no guarantee that it's true.

The  US Embassy could have easily had an applicant present their pension letter; disability payment letter; or other documentation  which matched what they were claiming. A few moments to review. The applicant then swears an Oath (under penalty of perjury)  The letter would to this day be accepted by Thai Immigration.

 

I have no idea why the US Embassy refuses to comply when there are other Embassies that see no problem  with this letter. I don't know of any Embassy that has the ability to go back to their home country and view the document at source.

 

No one is doubting your information . What the doubt is that Phetchabun has misinterpreted the information from National immigration.  IMO if National immigration wanted to end the income method in 2020 the National Order would have explicitly stated that.  IMO Phetchabun has taken the police order redefining the money in the bank method - and because that order does not mention the  income method- they are assuming it will not exist in 2020.

[billsmart]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

The  US Embassy could have easily had an applicant present their pension letter; disability payment letter; or other documentation  which matched what they were claiming. A few moments to review. The applicant then swears an Oath (under penalty of perjury)  The letter would to this day be accepted by Thai Immigration.

 

I have no idea why the US Embassy refuses to comply when there are other Embassies that see no problem  with this letter. I don't know of any Embassy that has the ability to go back to their home country and view the document at source.

 

No one is doubting your information . What the doubt is that Phetchabun has misinterpreted the information from National immigration.  IMO if National immigration wanted to end the income method in 2020 the National Order would have explicitly stated that.  IMO Phetchabun has taken the police order redefining the money in the bank method - and because that order does not mention the  income method- they are assuming it will not exist in 2020.

When I first went to the US Embassy years ago to get my first letter, I did take documentation on my Social Security deposits, and they told me they didn't need to see them. All they were doing was notarizing the letter I had prepared.

I hope the information about only accepting embassy letters to validate pension income is wrong, but I don't think it is. Anyway, I'm preparing for that. I'd advise anyone who is counting on anything other than that I've presented here to go down to their local office and make sure. Otherwise, they may be just out of luck when they show up to extend their visa.

[Lacessit]

14 minutes ago, mngmn said:

Thanks for the offer but when I first came to Thailand in the 80s Thai street food was to die for. The point of my post is that the food here has become very mediocre and so why worry unnecessarily about visa requirements?

 

It's still easy to pick the good street food. It's the stall that has Thais clustered around it.

I can cope with the visa requirements using an agent. Not sure I would have the patience to do it independently.

[marcusarelus]

24 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I hope the information about only accepting embassy letters to validate pension income is wrong, but I don't think it is.

What do you think the citizens from the 4 embassies to lazy to validate pensions will have to do to validate income?  Or do you think income method is just off the table for those from the lazy embassy countries? 

 

This question is specifically for billsmart. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

If you are in Chiang Mai, I can guide you to the best tenderloin pork steak ( 129 baht ) or a spaghetti marinara to die for ( 150 baht ) or Korean bulgogi hot pot ( 250 baht ). KFC? Wash your mouth out with soap, please.

Please do. I’m dying for some good farang food ????????

[billsmart]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What do you think the citizens from the 4 embassies to lazy to validate pensions will have to do to validate income?  Or do you think income method is just off the table for those from the lazy embassy countries? 

I think the citizens from the embassies, such as mine, the US, who will no longer issue letters validating monthly income will have to have THB 800K in the bank at least two months prior to their extension application, and for three months afterwards, and keep no less than THB 400K in the bank at all times. Or, move to different qualification criteria, such as marriage or guardian - or get some other kind of visa - or, go someplace else or go home.

That is what I am preparing to do.

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart
Added some information.

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I think the citizens from the embassies, such as mine, the US, who will no longer issue letters validating monthly income will have to have THB 800K in the bank at least two months prior to their extension application, and for three months afterwards, and keep no less than THB 400K in the bank at all times. Or, move to different qualification criteria, such as marriage or guardian - or get some other kind of visa - or, go someplace else or go home.

That is what I am preparing to do.

After reading all the threads and expert opinions I think you are 100%  wrong and that the income method via bank proof of some kind will be accepted.  We can refer back to this post in a month or so to see who was right or wrong. 

[D3030]

9 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

9 hours ago, JLCrab said:

A letter from the US Embassy will say that you are who you say you are and nothing else so that would mean US citizens are not eligible for extension based on monthly income. OK.

 

I'm not even sure anything from the U.S. Embassy is valid anymore...

 

If an income affidavit will not be accepted because it apparently cannot be trusted to be proof of actual income. Then why would any other document the Embassies issue that pertains to any type of affidavit be accepted?

 

Makes no sense!

Edited February 10, 2019 by D3030

[billsmart]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

After reading all the threads and expert opinions I think you are 100%  wrong and that the income method via bank proof of some kind will be accepted.  We can refer back to this post in a month or so to see who was right or wrong. 

I hope you are right and I am wrong, but right now, I have to go with what I was told.

You are right, though. We'll all know some day. It may take more than a month. It seems like there's a lot of confusion. I just am reporting what I was told and given as handouts. But, like I've said in previous posts, I'm preparing for the worst case.

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart
Correcting Document

[Moon37]

You have to do 3 separate forms. And be sure you use Thai address on them to insure it is sent as in the IAT format.
For social security you have to set up a direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank.

Each USG agency has preliminary application paperwork and different forms by agency to ultimately be able to submit SF1199a. I went to several Service /Orgs (DFAS), DVA, & SS direct deposit web sites and followed along. One of the first things is to update DEERs, with new Thai data for destination address for Requirements in the IAT direct deposit format. Allotments May or May not need to be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, D3030 said:

I'm not even sure anything from the U.S. Embassy is valid anymore...

 

If an income affidavit will not be accepted because it apparently cannot be trusted to be proof of actual income. Then why would any other document the Embassies issue that pertains to any type of affidavit be accepted?

 

Makes no sense!

The income affidavit was and is accepted and trusted but the embassy no longer issues the affidavit. 

[AAArdvark]

6 hours ago, sniggie said:

That's the point I am making in this thread. If that comes to pass it will be an unforgivable abrogation of their responsibility to their citizens for these four embassies not to revisit their decision.  Apart from anything else to have four countries' citizens treated differently from all the others would be a shameful inditement on those who made the decision.  

Look, I am sure that each of these embassies had many people that had gotten verification letters and then got into financial trouble.  The embassies would have eventually been asked why they verified these people when they had nowhere near the required income.  The embassies would have had to admit that they really never verified anything.  This was admitted to me by the US consulate.

[billsmart]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The income affidavit was and is accepted and trusted but the embassy no longer issues the affidavit. 

The reason the US Embassy told me they were not issuing the letters any longer is that the Thai government informed them they had to be responsible for the accuracy of the information. That is not what a notarized letter or statement does. It does not verify or guarantee the information is correct. It only guarantees that the person who signed it is indeed the person and that THEY have sworn, under penalty of law, that the information is correct.

Basically, it puts the responsibility for truthfulness on the person, not the notary.