Britain's Labour Party splits over Brexit and anti-Semitism

[Baerboxer]

36 minutes ago, baboon said:

I think that in all likelihood, a general election would simply produce a hung parliament of the same tossers we have now. So back to square one we would go...

 

Hung parliament - I can tie the correct knot, work out the drop distances etc.

 

Happy to work for just my expenses ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No major party would dare stand as 'remain'.

Which is why the past election doesnt say much with regards to Brexit. As you point out, there was no major party Remainers could vote for. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Brexit supporters are patriots, remainers are the people that want Britain ruled by another country.

The same old hogwash but now wrapped in the flag.

 

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Brexit supporters are patriots, remainers are the people that want Britain ruled by another country.

Fine by me, considering the snollygosters we have in Westminster...

[vogie]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

Fine by me, considering the snollygosters we have in Westminster...

But it is not fine by the majority who voted to leave, and I don't know what a "snollygoster" is, but at a guess I think the EU will have their fair share too.

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No major party would dare stand as 'remain'.

THE major party in Scotland is as remain now as it was all through the run up to the referendum. Two of the minor parties cannot quite make up their minds what they want though.

[Loiner]

Extremists in both parties want Brexit.

How do you manage to define 17.4 million, majority of the cross party electorate, as extremists? Even the loony lefty libs would struggle to come up with that one.


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[dick dasterdly]

34 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Your're right.

 

What is worrying is the amount of young, university educated people and teachers that I know who support Momentum. Most are too young to have lived through the shambles of previous labor governments; and Corbyn's promises of free education including tertiary for all, a rejuvenated NHS, a climate friendly UK, etc etc etc appeals. They have no idea or even consider how it will all be funded. 

 

They really don't see Corbyn as someone obsessed with the "evils' of Western capitalism who actually has no alternative to offer.

Are these the same "young, university educated people" that we're continually told supported remain?

[Loiner]

I think that in all likelihood, a general election would simply produce a hung parliament of the same tossers we have now. So back to square one we would go...

Another GE is highly unlikely. LAB tried the no-confidence angle but CON rebels unsurprisingly returned to the fold.
If there were somehow to be a GE, it’s more likely a hung parliament would be swinging to the tune of UKIP and/or Nigel’s new Brexit party.


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[dick dasterdly]

41 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No major party would dare stand as 'remain'.

 

37 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

If a party did, the result might surprise you.

And yet the liberal democrats did at the last election, and didn't do so well.....

[Pedrogaz]

They will get a lesson like the gang of 4 in the 80s by becoming irrelevant.

The Labour Party has always been split by those wishing to be a reformist party and this like myself, who would like a radical Labour Party.

For me I have been happy with the Labour Party under Corbyn. The Tories are totally incompetent with the least talented cabinet in living memory, possibly ever.

What concerns me is the anti-semitism term which is thrown around carelessly. In Corbyn's case it is his support for the Palestinian cause and his membership of the BDS sanction movement. On both of these issues, I support Corbyn wholeheartedly. Because he isn't kissing Bibi's a** he is supposedly an anti-semite.

 

[simple1]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

How do you manage to define 17.4 million, majority of the cross party electorate, as extremists? Even the loony lefty libs would struggle to come up with that one.


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Probably referencing politicians, but for sure extremists supporting Brexit within the electorate - a good example from this thread...

 

Brexit supporters are patriots, remainers are the people that want Britain ruled by another country.

[vogie]

12 hours ago, baboon said:

 Well I just heard their statements and they said no such thing. Brexit was barely touched on. They merely expressed their dissatisfaction of the Labour Party.

Who are they traitors to, by the way?

Out of interest baboon, are you dissatisfied with the leadership of the Labour Party. Are you concerned that the Labour Party as we all know it may be lost forever. My parents, and their parents always voted Labour, but I think they would be deeply shocked by what it is turning into.

If Corbyn was removed, he would be only replaced by another extreme lefty. The Party is now being run by the lunatics.

Suffice to say I know there are many good Labour MPs still in the party, (not in the cabinet) who must be very frustrated too of how the party is being taken over

'Stalinist parties'

Momentum currently has about 60,000 supporters, charges no membership fee, organises mostly through social media and has around 50 local groups across the UK.

Its self declared aim is "to create a mass movement for real progressive change".

But the fact anyone can join Momentum has prompted fears it is ripe for infiltration by the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) and other far-left groups who are bitterly opposed to the Labour Party.

[nauseus]

13 hours ago, smedly said:

so we have listened to these traitors claiming the people didn't know what they voted for. it seems that people that elected these traitors didn't know what they voted for either

 

If they want to diverse then they need to put themselves up for election otherwise they are breaking the very principles they claim to represent - put yourselves up for a by election otherwise this is complete nonsense - they have continually ignored the result of the referendum and spent the last 2 years trying to stop what the majority of people voted for - they need to take the next step and see if the people they claim to represent support them - simple

Exactly.

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

Out of interest baboon, are you dissatisfied with the leadership of the Labour Party. Are you concerned that the Labour Party as we all know it may be lost forever. My parents, and their parents always voted Labour, but I think they would be deeply shocked by what it is turning into.

If Corbyn was removed, he would be only replaced by another extreme lefty. The Party is now being run by the lunatics.

Suffice to say I know there are many good Labour MPs still in the party, (not in the cabinet) who must be very frustrated too of how the party is being taken over

'Stalinist parties'

Momentum currently has about 60,000 supporters, charges no membership fee, organises mostly through social media and has around 50 local groups across the UK.

Its self declared aim is "to create a mass movement for real progressive change".

But the fact anyone can join Momentum has prompted fears it is ripe for infiltration by the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) and other far-left groups who are bitterly opposed to the Labour Party.

The Labour party (many decades ago....) genuinely supported the bottom strata, those paid the least.

 

For many decades, this has ceased to be the case (IMO) as the leaders became more interested in increasing their own wealth and power - until we eventually arrived at blair....  A tory in everything other than name...

 

Which is why nowadays there is no reason to vote for either party - as they are both the same.

 

I suspect, but obviously don't know - that your parents would be horrified at the way the Labour party has turned into another tory party.

 

Corbyn may well once have been a genuine socialist (which is why he's despised by Labour MPs?), but he's also entirely untrustworthy IMO, as he used to be a brexiteer, but for political reasons has turned into a remainer as far as I can make out.

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Blair gained power by a landslide as socialist voters thought he was a socialist.  We found out the hard way immediately, that he was a tory in disguise.  But I do agree that the electorate voted him in again ☹️.

 

The country wasn't happier during the Blair years IMO.  I for one, left the uk in '06 - with a serious dislike of all politicians.

Statistics say you're wrong. 78% of British people were mostly happy during the decade from 1998 to 2008 when the crash hit followed by a decade of misery.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, brexiteer said:

 

 

 

I think I would rather have the odious Corbyn than the decrepit old, odious Cable.

Why? Which of Vince Cable's Lib Dem policies do you object to. Please provide a list!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Except we've already had one, and the electorate voted for parties that promised to abide by the brexit referendum....

You clearly didn't read the manifestos. The Labour one committed to staying in a customs union and maintaining close convergence with the single market. You probably call that BRINO.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

And yet at the last election when Vince's party was the only one supporting remain, they didn't do so well....

Any ideas why?

 

Much of the electorate felt voting Lib dem would be a wasted vote because of our arcane fptp system. Watch what happens now. I think Lib Dems and independents will hold the balance of power from BOTH the discredited major parties. Won't that be nice!

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Any ideas why?

 

Much of the electorate felt voting Lib dem would be a wasted vote because of our arcane fptp system. Watch what happens now. I think Lib Dems and independents will hold the balance of power from BOTH the discredited major parties. Won't that be nice!

The Independents said last night they don't want anything to do with the LibDems and who can blame them. The Lib Dems are the party that just make the numbers up, just about as important as the Greens. 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

How do you manage to define 17.4 million, majority of the cross party electorate, as extremists? Even the loony lefty libs would struggle to come up with that one.


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My statement was that extremists on both right and left are backing Brexit without a deal.

 

On what basis do you claim 17.4 million people want Brexit without a trade deal?

Edited February 19, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Independents said last night they don't want anything to do with the LibDems and who can blame them. The Lib Dems are the party that just make the numbers up, just about as important as the Greens. 

https://www.libdems.org.uk/manifesto

 

Here's the Lib Dem Ideas

 

Read it! Sounds good to me.

 

I think the Labour rebels hold very similar views. Of course they want their own party but how will they differentiate themselves? dI/dL?

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My statement was that extremists on both right and left are backing Brexit without a deal.

 

On what basis do you claim 17.4 million people want Brexit without a trade deal?

Any type of deal was not part of the question. Nobody knows how many want to Leave without a deal, but they are still not extremist.

A 17.4 million cross party majority is not extreme, it's very much mainstream. 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

https://www.libdems.org.uk/manifesto

 

Here's the Lib Dem Ideas

 

Read it! Sounds good to me.

 

I think the Labour rebels hold very similar views. Of course they want their own party but how will they differentiate themselves? dI/dL?

I've read it, well I got as far as "second EU referendum on brexit deal." And thought any party that is not democratic and goes againgst the will of the electorate are not the party for me.

 

The Labour rebels are very brave to leave the Labour Party, but they were all advocates of a 'peoples vote', I just wonder whether they will be brave enough to let their constituents have a peoples vote. I should imagine after the next General Election they will probably be forgotten hystory anyway. You could put a carrot up for election and call it Labour and it would win. But 10 out of 10 for trying, pity they didn't support Brexit, they would have had my vote.

 

 

[dunroaming]

Let's see if this holds water.  7 is nowhere near enough to make much difference in itself but we don't know if any others are sitting on the side lines ready to follow.

 

Clearly good news in the short term for the Tories unless some of their MPs jump ship too.  Too early to say what this will mean but at the moment Chucka Umunna is the only heavy weight in the bunch. 

[baboon]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Out of interest baboon, are you dissatisfied with the leadership of the Labour Party. Are you concerned that the Labour Party as we all know it may be lost forever. My parents, and their parents always voted Labour, but I think they would be deeply shocked by what it is turning into.

If Corbyn was removed, he would be only replaced by another extreme lefty. The Party is now being run by the lunatics.

Suffice to say I know there are many good Labour MPs still in the party, (not in the cabinet) who must be very frustrated too of how the party is being taken over

'Stalinist parties'

Momentum currently has about 60,000 supporters, charges no membership fee, organises mostly through social media and has around 50 local groups across the UK.

Its self declared aim is "to create a mass movement for real progressive change".

But the fact anyone can join Momentum has prompted fears it is ripe for infiltration by the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) and other far-left groups who are bitterly opposed to the Labour Party.

Generally satisfied, yes. But I do think their handling of Brexit has been... Has been... What's the word? Oh yes, 'Sh!te'.

Being the age I am, I only have real experience of Blair's New Labour, so Jezza is a refreshing change from that.

Edited February 19, 2019 by baboon

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The same old hogwash but now wrapped in the flag.

 

We’ve all read about the German collaborators in France and Holland During WW2. But very little is said regarding the German occupation of the Channel Islands during this period. Well here’s one little fact, the German collaborators in the Islands spouted the same mantra as yourself.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

If a party did, the result might surprise you.

You mean, if a party did stand on a "remain" ticket, they might be annihilated?  Surely, not that surprising?

[evadgib]

Derek Hatton rejoins Labour after 34 years

Edited February 19, 2019 by evadgib

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Derek Hatton rejoins Labour after 34 years

Hes 71 now !!!!!!