UK's Labour says it will back call for second Brexit referendum

[nauseus]

20 hours ago, bomber said:

If it went down surely the UK would rise from the ashes it being so resilient as you lot keep telling us.

Yes. These days I think it's called Risk Management.

[nauseus]

35 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I wish remainers would give up on the insults.

 

It doesn't encourage genuine discussion - rather the opposite. ☹️

 

I suspect they're trying to encourage even worse insults in return - that will result in closing down threads?

 

Even if I'm wrong in this suspicion, how on earth does insulting those with a different opinion further their cause?

Quite agree, Dick. You are correct.  

 

Best to Muttley! ????   

[malagateddy]

I totally agree with you 100%
R/R.
There's also a well known snp mp who was photographed with 2 republucans standing in front of a republican banner.
It does not sit well with the Unionist people of Scotland.
Anyway..things to do and hopefully I'll be watching the Teddies giving the sheep-sha..ers a good seeing to tonight[emoji6]

I was not aware, Teddy, but I am struggling to see the relevance of your point. It is no less irrelevant than the OO man jailed last week for spitting in the face of a priest. Sectarianism has no place in the 21st century. 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry if I was a bit wandering, but I was referring more to the general notion that Brexit was driven by those who felt that the EU was subsuming their own nation's sovereignty.

 

This data is a bit old (2011) but you can see that, with the exception of NI, each of the other hoe nations sees itself as predominantly of that country first.  Of course, as England calls the shots, the status quo will be easier to maintain there, but can you see how this notion of sovereignty that Brexiteers talk about is one that resonates strongly in both Wales and Scotland?

 

 

 

Good map. London looks so confused now.  

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Fair enough but it would be our decision as we are a sovereign state.

 

Another couple of hours kip; indigestion fixed with a couple of Rennie's! Zzzz

We were supposedly "sovereign" when Blair did his damage - his "decisions" were not necessarily "ours" - all we need is another similar creep and the same, or worse, can happen again. You are right about probably not having any more referendums.... that's one main reason for getting out now.  

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I wish remainers would give up on the insults.

 

It doesn't encourage genuine discussion - rather the opposite. ☹️

 

I suspect they're trying to encourage even worse insults in return - that will result in closing down threads?

 

Even if I'm wrong in this suspicion, how on earth does insulting those with a different opinion further their cause?

As you seem to be an unusually polite Brexiteer, I am happy to explain. It was another poster who first used the phrase "absurd and moronic". This initiated a furious response from the usual suspects. My use of the phrase was purely used for comic irony, with no intent to insult or abuse other posters, Brexiteers or otherwise.

 

If you take the time to read through all the Brexit threads, you will see that, generally, I don't abuse other posters unless they abuse me. You will also notice that, on the whole, Brexiteers are far more abusive than remainers. A point I illustrated in another thread when the same accusation was made.

 

I bear no animosity to Brexiteers as a group. Some of my best friends are Brexiteers. 555.  @nauseus I find particularly stimulating, with well thought out, rational arguments which often raise a smile.

 

In conclusion, I tend to use TV for my personal amusement and I'm genuinely sorry if my attempt at humour has offended you.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

I totally agree with you 100%
R/R.
There's also a well known snp mp who was photographed with 2 republucans standing in front of a republican banner.
It does not sit well with the Unionist people of Scotland.
Anyway..things to do and hopefully I'll be watching the Teddies giving the sheep-sha..ers a good seeing to tonight

 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

I agree that sectarianism is a curse, fortunately this vile disease doesn't have as big an impact in the East of Scotland. I find both Unionist and Republican flute bands vile, though I wasn't aware of the later having any significance. I doesn't surprise me that you support the Huns, although you may not be aware that there is quite a significant pro independence/anti-brexit presence in Ibrox.

The only west of Scotland team I would support are the Jags who have this wonderful song.

"Hello hello, how do you do,

we hate the boys in royal blue,

we hate the ones in emerald green 

so F##k your Pope and f##k your Queen. 

Wonderfully even handed folk the Scots of Maryhill!

[Spidey]

18 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I find both Unionist and Republican flute bands vile, though I wasn't aware of the later having any significance.

I wasn't aware of that either. I thought the flute playing was a particularly Unionist thing.

 

Remember Gazza, playing for the Gers, dancing and playing the flute at an old firm match at Parkhead? He actually received IRA death threats for that.

 

 

 

gazza.htm

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As you seem to be an unusually polite Brexiteer, I am happy to explain. It was another poster who first used the phrase "absurd and moronic". This initiated a furious response from the usual suspects. My use of the phrase was purely used for comic irony, with no intent to insult or abuse other posters, Brexiteers or otherwise.

 

If you take the time to read through all the Brexit threads, you will see that, generally, I don't abuse other posters unless they abuse me. You will also notice that, on the whole, Brexiteers are far more abusive than remainers. A point I illustrated in another thread when the same accusation was made.

 

I bear no animosity to Brexiteers as a group. Some of my best friends are Brexiteers. 555.  @nauseus I find particularly stimulating, with well thought out, rational arguments which often raise a smile.

 

In conclusion, I tend to use TV for my personal amusement and I'm genuinely sorry if my attempt at humour has offended you.

as an aside;

communication systems like TVF (and similar) does not lend itself to humour and does not lend

itself to sarcasm.

it is a written medium, hence, lightfooted humour and sarcasm easily go down the wrong throat.

 

some users treat TVF as a written medium - some users treat it as an oral medium

clashes and misunderstandings result

 

[Spidey]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

as an aside;

communication systems like TVF (and similar) does not lend itself to humour and does not lend

itself to sarcasm.

it is a written medium, hence, lightfooted humour and sarcasm easily go down the wrong throat.

 

some users treat TVF as a written medium - some users treat it as an oral medium

clashes and misunderstandings result

 

As I said, I post for my amusement, no other reason. If I couldn't have a laugh, I wouldn't post. I'll try to throw a few smiley faces into my posts for the benefit of the humourless.

???? ???? ????????

 

 

 

[aright]

7 hours ago, Spidey said:

The politeness I was referring to is when someone asks you a question, it's polite to try to give them an answer. Just as I'm giving you a courteous reply to your absurd moronic post.

 

Out of politeness could you courteously answer the question I asked some time ago. We wouldn't want to accuse you of not practicing what you preach.

 

21 hours ago, aright said:

Pure deflection. Your first paragraph is your opinion on how bad it will be when we leave the EU. That wasn't my question. The question was,  Perhaps you could now give your reasons why you want to stay in a bureaucratic superstate etc etc ............…??

I have given you my reasons for leaving it seems only fair you address the problems I mentioned and give me your reasons for staying.

 

 

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

You are mixing two things up there  , yes you cannot get a Scottish passport and neither can I get a English passport and we can both get British passports

A nice red one.

[SheungWan]

27 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As I said, I post for my amusement, no other reason. If I couldn't have a laugh, I wouldn't post. I'll try to throw a few smiley faces into my posts for the benefit of the humourless.

???? ???? ????????

For the humourless Brexiteers only monster size fonts really works.

[Spidey]

14 minutes ago, aright said:

 

Out of politeness could you courteously answer the question I asked some time ago. We wouldn't want to accuse you of not practicing what you preach.

 

 

Answered in full. Not my fault that you got a D- in comprehension. ????????

[aright]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Answered in full. Not my fault that you got a D- in comprehension. ????????

Can you give me the post number or should I mark it off as; answer...as expected

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

Can you give me the post number or should I mark it off as; answer...as expected

What's the point if you are going to do that? I gave a full answer, you didn't like it and accused me of not answering the question. What dso you want me to do? Lie to you?

 

OK. OK. One more time.

 

In 1975, I voted not to join the EC. I still would prefer not to be in the EU, for many of the reasons you give.

 

My reason for voting remain is simple. If we leave the EU at the current time, our economy will be damaged irreparably. It will produce very few benefits, certainly won't solve the immigration problem, probably make it worse.

 

This is the opinion of the vast majority of business leaders and respected economists, who also predict a net downturn in jobs. I have 2 children in the UK, one works in the NHS, only yesterday, a report came out that the NHS will suffer untold damage if we leave. The EU holds a brighter future for my children than Brexit.

 

You will now tell me that all these experts are talking out of their backsides, part of project fear, know nothing, whatever. You will also tell me that I haven't answered the question. You can't teach stupid, which is why I was reluctant to answer the question, yet again.

[aright]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

What's the point if you are going to do that? I gave a full answer, you didn't like it and accused me of not answering the question. What dso you want me to do? Lie to you?

 

OK. OK. One more time.

 

In 1975, I voted not to join the EC. I still would prefer not to be in the EU, for many of the reasons you give.

 

My reason for voting remain is simple. If we leave the EU at the current time, our economy will be damaged irreparably. It will produce very few benefits, certainly won't solve the immigration problem, probably make it worse.

 

This is the opinion of the vast majority of business leaders and respected economists, who also predict a net downturn in jobs. I have 2 children in the UK, one works in the NHS, only yesterday, a report came out that the NHS will suffer untold damage if we leave. The EU holds a brighter future for my children than Brexit.

 

You will now tell me that all these experts are talking out of their backsides, part of project fear, know nothing, whatever. You will also tell me that I haven't answered the question. You can't teach stupid, which is why I was reluctant to answer the question, yet again.

Thanks for at least trying but once again you are answering a question I did not ask by telling me your perceived problems for the UK leaving the EU. I accept that is the opinion of many and I would agree some issues are thorny.

You seem to have difficulty recognizing my question. My question did not relate to perceived difficulties when we leave but perceived difficulties:-

"staying in a bureaucratic superstate  which has bailouts in contravention of the Maastricht Treaty, mass youth unemployment, target  2 imbalances, German surplus outside the rules, impending Italian default, low growth, corruption, waste, an internal currency which only truly benefits one country, unaudited accounts, a migrant crisis, transit camps for those migrants with papers at the Austrian border, a member who freeloads on Nato defence, but, against Union rules gets a sweetheart deal on energy which is not available to other members.........…….etc "

 

You can agree or disagree with the EU problems which I have outlined, concern me, and swayed me to vote leave and we have had your take on a future UK outside the EU but please give us your take on where the EU will be 2-10 years from now with reference to its current problems. This is the real question. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Thanks for at least trying but once again you are answering a question I did not ask by telling me your perceived problems for the UK leaving the EU. I accept that is the opinion of many and I would agree some issues are thorny.

You seem to have difficulty recognizing my question. My question did not relate to perceived difficulties when we leave but perceived difficulties:-

"staying in a bureaucratic superstate  which has bailouts in contravention of the Maastricht Treaty, mass youth unemployment, target  2 imbalances, German surplus outside the rules, impending Italian default, low growth, corruption, waste, an internal currency which only truly benefits one country, unaudited accounts, a migrant crisis, transit camps for those migrants with papers at the Austrian border, a member who freeloads on Nato defence, but, against Union rules gets a sweetheart deal on energy which is not available to other members.........…….etc "

 

You can agree or disagree with the EU problems which I have outlined, concern me, and swayed me to vote leave and we have had your take on a future UK outside the EU but please give us your take on where the EU will be 2-10 years from now with reference to its current problems. This is the real question. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How did I know that you would say that I didn't answer your question? Too predictable.

 

I said that I agreed with a number of your points but the negatives of Brexit far outweigh the positives. I also explained in another post who the whole immigration issue would not be resolved by Brexit.

 

In answer to your new question, in bold, I predict that the EU will be in much better shape than the UK in 2-10 years...….if we leave. Let's hope, for our children's sakes and not for our nationalistic egotism, that we don't leave.

[aright]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

For the humourless Brexiteers only monster size fonts really works.

That works for some. Other contributors feel one sentence snide comments with no reference to the debate works for them. 

[tebee]

Brexit is turning into a mess that the political class have no idea how to solve, the whole  British political system broken and the facture may be irreparable.

 

Brexiters, is this a price worth paying for your precious brexit ?

 

Sentencing the future of the UK to years political and financial turmoil while we try to sort out the chaos we have generated 

 

Yes, we may get some much needed changes, but ii will be hard to cope with many year without firm leadership while we sort this out 

 

 

 

Ivan Rogers: I knew that it would be a long, tortuous and potentially conflictual process. That doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me is the extent of the mess and the fact that four weeks before the deadline, the political class is unable to come to any serious conclusion about what kind of Brexit they want. Of course, Brexit is a revolutionary moment, but I have never seen a political crisis like this in my professional career.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/ivan-rogers-on-brexit-what-surprises-me-is-the-extent-of-the-mess-a-1255789.html

 

 

[aright]

12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

 

In answer to your new question, in bold, I predict that the EU will be in much better shape than the UK in 2-10 years...…

Why? How are they going to overcome the problems I outlined? 

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Why? How are they going to overcome the problems I outlined? 

As I explained, most of the problems are in your head. Suggest you post some links to your "problems".

[aright]

18 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As I explained, most of the problems are in your head. Suggest you post some links to your "problems".

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2018/03/08/the-eus-current-problems-are-largely-of-its-own-making/

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2018/614650/EPRS_IDA(2018)614650_EN.pdf

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2018/614650/EPRS_IDA(2018)614650_EN.pdf

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/28/britain-least-europes-problems/

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2018/03/08/the-eus-current-problems-are-largely-of-its-own-making/

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2018/614650/EPRS_IDA(2018)614650_EN.pdf

Yes I agree with both of those links, the second one doesn't really say anything to justify your fears. The first one, primarily puts the EU's problems down to the Euro and Schengen. We are not in and never will be in either the Schengen Agreement or the Euro. They don't directly affect the UK. Your fears are unfounded.

[melvinmelvin]

46 minutes ago, tebee said:

Brexit is turning into a mess that the political class have no idea how to solve, the whole  British political system broken and the facture may be irrepararable.

2

ohh, yes

 

mentally sharp today aren't we

 

but, what to do with this situation?

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

 

[aright]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Yes I agree with both of those links, the second one doesn't really say anything to justify your fears. The first one, primarily puts the EU's problems down to the Euro and Schengen. We are not in and never will be in either the Schengen Agreement or the Euro. They don't directly affect the UK. Your fears are unfounded.

If the euro collapses the EU collapses....that's a great concern if you are a member state. better out now than wait for it to happen.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/01/02/euro-has-failed-threatens-democracy-should-abolished/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/06/the-germans-are-making-contingency-plans-for-the-collapse-of-europe-lets-hope-we-are-too

[bomber]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Thanks for at least trying but once again you are answering a question I did not ask by telling me your perceived problems for the UK leaving the EU. I accept that is the opinion of many and I would agree some issues are thorny.

You seem to have difficulty recognizing my question. My question did not relate to perceived difficulties when we leave but perceived difficulties:-

"staying in a bureaucratic superstate  which has bailouts in contravention of the Maastricht Treaty, mass youth unemployment, target  2 imbalances, German surplus outside the rules, impending Italian default, low growth, corruption, waste, an internal currency which only truly benefits one country, unaudited accounts, a migrant crisis, transit camps for those migrants with papers at the Austrian border, a member who freeloads on Nato defence, but, against Union rules gets a sweetheart deal on energy which is not available to other members.........…….etc "

 

You can agree or disagree with the EU problems which I have outlined, concern me, and swayed me to vote leave and we have had your take on a future UK outside the EU but please give us your take on where the EU will be 2-10 years from now with reference to its current problems. This is the real question. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Barely any of those issues affect 99% of the population of the UK and certainly dont cost jobs or growth or trade.

[malagateddy]

Huns???
Showing your childish bitterness?

I agree that sectarianism is a curse, fortunately this vile disease doesn't have as big an impact in the East of Scotland. I find both Unionist and Republican flute bands vile, though I wasn't aware of the later having any significance. I doesn't surprise me that you support the Huns, although you may not be aware that there is quite a significant pro independence/anti-brexit presence in Ibrox.
The only west of Scotland team I would support are the Jags who have this wonderful song.
"Hello hello, how do you do,
we hate the boys in royal blue,
we hate the ones in emerald green 
so F##k your Pope and f##k your Queen. 
Wonderfully even handed folk the Scots of Maryhill!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[aright]

6 minutes ago, bomber said:

Barely any of those issues affect 99% of the population of the UK and certainly dont cost jobs or growth or trade.

You miss the point. Those were my given reasons for leaving the EU. They are all party to the failure of the EU which would have a great effect on us if we stayed in. It's best to look in front of you and behind you when making a decision

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

As you seem to be an unusually polite Brexiteer, I am happy to explain. It was another poster who first used the phrase "absurd and moronic". This initiated a furious response from the usual suspects. My use of the phrase was purely used for comic irony, with no intent to insult or abuse other posters, Brexiteers or otherwise.

 

If you take the time to read through all the Brexit threads, you will see that, generally, I don't abuse other posters unless they abuse me. You will also notice that, on the whole, Brexiteers are far more abusive than remainers. A point I illustrated in another thread when the same accusation was made.

 

I bear no animosity to Brexiteers as a group. Some of my best friends are Brexiteers. 555.  @nauseus I find particularly stimulating, with well thought out, rational arguments which often raise a smile.

 

In conclusion, I tend to use TV for my personal amusement and I'm genuinely sorry if my attempt at humour has offended you.

I never knew you cared! Keep smiling. ????