Help! Retirement extension of stay

[John7777]

My apologies if this issue has been dealt with in another thread somewhere.

 

On one other occasion (2007), I entered Thailand on a multiple entry tourist visa which was then converted, in Pattaya, to a retirement extension of stay.  I would like to do the same thing again, but will be leaving the USA in a few weeks, so my time here is limited.

 

I previously used the US Embassy letter to satisfy the monthly income requirement, although I had other proof of a monthly pension greater than 65,000 baht per month.  That's not the issue that I'm currently worried about, though.  Given the recent changes, my intent was to simply wire sufficient funds into my Thai bank account to satisfy the 800,000 baht requirement.  No problem. It only takes a few mouse clicks and simplifies the process.

 

However, I just saw a video on YouTube wherein it was suggested that it would no longer be possible to convert a tourist visa to a retirement extension of stay in Thailand, and that the regulations now require that an immigrant visa first be obtained in your home country and then converted to a retirement extension of stay once in Thailand.  Is this accurate?  Or can I still simply enter on a tourist visa and complete the necessary paperwork and fees to obtain the extension in Thailand? Any help would be very much appreciated.

[ubonjoe]

I suggest you ignore most of what you see on YouTube about Thai visas, extensions and etc.

It is still possible to a apply for change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at a immigration office. It is also possible to do it with 30 day visa exempt entry.

General requirements are here (click Eng at the top of the page to change from Thai) https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

After getting the 90 day entry you could then apply for a one year extension of stay when the 800k baht has been in the bank for 2 months.

It is still possible to use the 65k monthly income option but you would need to transfer it into a Thai bank from abroad. For the first extension you would need to show 1 or 2 months of transfers. For the visa application one transfer should be enough.

[mtls2005]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

General requirements are here (click Eng at the top of the page to change from Thai) https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

 

That link takes you to: Change visa - FOR MONK, NUN, PRIEST STUDYING DHARMA IN THAILAND

 

Think the OP is asking about: 

 

Change visa - FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES -- 50 YEARS OLD

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_76

 

Note the difference in "Requirements".

 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

That link takes you to: Change visa - FOR MONK, NUN, PRIEST STUDYING DHARMA IN THAILAND

Read the entire page not just the first line.

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Change visa - FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES -- 50 YEARS OLD

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_76

That one says this.

 

They messed up the page when they translated it to English. If you change the change visa page to Thai and use Google translate it shows the correct info.

[John7777]

Thanks everyone.  I guess I won’t have a problem.  

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

For the first extension you would need to show 1 or 2 months of transfers. For the visa application one transfer should be enough.

You raise a question. Immigration has said they will be lenient this year wrt monthly deposits to get a retirement extension. But as of January 2020 a full 12 months will be required. 

In 2020 and on, how many monthly deposits of 65,000 (0r 40,000)  would need to be shown for a first time extension application. 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You raise a question. Immigration has said they will be lenient this year wrt monthly deposits to get a retirement extension. But as of January 2020 a full 12 months will be required. 

In 2020 and on, how many monthly deposits of 65,000 (0r 40,000)  would need to be shown for a first time extension application. 

The amendment to the police order has examples for both extensions for first time applications which will apply for this year or next year. This is from clause 2.22 for retirement (chose it since it is all on one page).

 

 

[John7777]

What about people who have been retired for a number of years, but are just now retiring in Thailand?  Or, what about people with income from other sources, such as stock dividends?

 

For example, I first retired and first started to receive a pension in 2006.  I first applied for a retirement extension in 2007.  I've been back and forth to Thailand since then, but always on a tourist visa.  So, even though I retired years ago, if I again apply for a retirement extension, there will have been no money sent to Thailand on a regular basis.  I wired some money to my account now and then, just to keep it active, but my monthly pension has been going to my US bank.  

 

Also, wiring money to a Thai bank on a monthly basis isn't cheap.  $40 each time. And, it won't show up as a "pension," just as money remitted.  

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, John7777 said:

What about people who have been retired for a number of years, but are just now retiring in Thailand?  Or, what about people with income from other sources, such as stock dividends?

The use of the word retirement in translations is just the best word they could come up with. If you do a rough translation of retirement in the police orders it comes out to "Requesting to stay - In the end of life".

The wording in the translation may not be exactly clear what they meant. It means the first extension application in reality. Pension is another word that can really mean many things if you read all the definitions of it. They are not going question where the money came from.

 

17 minutes ago, John7777 said:

Also, wiring money to a Thai bank on a monthly basis isn't cheap.  $40 each time. And, it won't show up as a "pension," just as money remitted.  

It does not have to be shown as a pension. As long as it is transferred from abroad they will not question the source of it.

[John7777]

Thanks again.  I wonder if they would care if, instead of wiring in the money monthly, I wired it every three months (enough for three months)?  Like I said before, I was just going to wire in 800,000 baht and be done with it, but I could probably put that money to better use elsewhere.  

[KhunFred]

I am totally buffaloed by the "transfer" situation. Best I can determine, TranferWise does not work in Thailand and DeeMoney does not work in the USA .   ....(or is it the other way around?) Western Union and my credit union wire transfer fees are a very poor option.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I am totally buffaloed by the "transfer" situation. Best I can determine, TranferWise does not work in Thailand and DeeMoney does not work in the USA .   ....(or is it the other way around?) Western Union and my credit union wire transfer fees are a very poor option.

Firstly Transferwise does not work FROM Thailand and Dee Money is suggested to cover that. Doesn't matter in the context of qualifying for extensions. The problem is Transferwise may not always show up as coming from overseas when it lands in Thailand. This is required for the Extension. Apparently Transferwise shows up as International to Bangkok Bank accounts mostly...... 

Not ideal if using it 12 times to get an extension if one fails to. 

[Mister Fixit]

8 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I am totally buffaloed by the "transfer" situation. Best I can determine, TranferWise does not work in Thailand and DeeMoney does not work in the USA .   ....(or is it the other way around?) Western Union and my credit union wire transfer fees are a very poor option.

Transfer Wise does indeed work in Thailand.  I just opened an account 2 weeks ago and made my first transfer with it 2 days ago.  I paid £6.95 to send 40,000 worth of baht.  My Thai bank (Kasikorn) also charged 80 baht to receive it, but it's still a hell of a lot better than the £25 my UK bank (Santander) charge.

 

I am still getting to grips with how it works but I was able to open an account for £20 to get the card, then once that was activated, I opened an account in Thai baht with them.  Then as a trial transfer, I sent £1000 from my UK bank to Transferwise then when it arrived transferred it to the baht account.  Then it was a bit convoluted, as I then had to send the money from the Transfer Wise baht account to Kasikorn.

 

It works a bit differently in that with Transferwise you specify the amount in baht and they convert it rather than sending £s and it being converted here.  I paid £985 for 40,000 baht, a rate of about 40.8/£ + an 80 baht charge by Kasikorn.  In total, I received 39,920 baht due to that 80 baht charge.  

 

It took about 20 hours and I had emails from TW every step of the way.  I'll certainly use them again from now on.

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, John7777 said:

Thanks again.  I wonder if they would care if, instead of wiring in the money monthly, I wired it every three months (enough for three months)?  Like I said before, I was just going to wire in 800,000 baht and be done with it, but I could probably put that money to better use elsewhere.  

The rules clearly state it has bo be monthly transfers. Sending it every 3 months would certainly not be accepted.

[kuma]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:28 AM, ubonjoe said:

I suggest you ignore most of what you see on YouTube about Thai visas, extensions and etc.

It is still possible to a apply for change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at a immigration office. It is also possible to do it with 30 day visa exempt entry.

General requirements are here (click Eng at the top of the page to change from Thai) https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

After getting the 90 day entry you could then apply for a one year extension of stay when the 800k baht has been in the bank for 2 months.

It is still possible to use the 65k monthly income option but you would need to transfer it into a Thai bank from abroad. For the first extension you would need to show 1 or 2 months of transfers. For the visa application one transfer should be enough.

Today while looking for clarity on proof of income at 90 days i got to the Thai Immigration FAQ page in english.

Here is the link to questions on retirement visas

It is titled "in the end of life"...a dig/humour from the mandarin in charge....lol why not

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/sv_stay2.23

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, kuma said:

Today while looking for clarity on proof of income at 90 days i got to the Thai Immigration FAQ page in english.

Here is the link to questions on retirement visas

It is titled "in the end of life"...a dig/humour from the mandarin in charge....lol why not

Not sure what you mean by proof of income at 90 days.

That is a rough translation of it. That is why professional translations use retirement.

About the same thing is under the heading of retirement. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 

The Eng button at the top of the  page works on that page.

 

[kuma]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what you mean by proof of income at 90 days.

That is a rough translation of it. That is why professional translations use retirement.

About the same thing is under the heading of retirement. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 

The Eng button at the top of the  page works on that page.

 

UJ I wish I knew too. The fake news / misdirection / uniformed facts n opinions etc on this topic is all over the map imo.

I recalled being given a fact sheet by the Jomtien IO stating I was to show proof of 800k or higher uninterrupted bank balance for the 90 days after my visa extension.

I cannot find that paper now, and I always keep this paperwork very squared away. So now, have I dreamt it all and there is no such requirement? Lol, I wantr more of whatever it is i'm taking if indeed that is the case.

On this other thread (below), there are posters that align with the idea that you need to produce proof of that bank balance at visa +90, and infer it should state when on my extension paperwork stapled into my passport from Friday. But thee is no mention of it on there, nor on the page where the visa is stamped, so yes, is this just a online rumour that got out of hand, or is it policy that we must report? I see stronger evidence that its not required, but not conclusive.

As for the end of life thing, indeed it is translated differently elsewhere. I think maybe this is a dig, or a joke, or a social experiment - to see how many people actually read the FAQ. LOL I think it might be the latter - from what i know of TV if many people saw that there wold be indignant threads started for sure on the topic, but hardly a mention of it when searching online...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, kuma said:

I recalled being given a fact sheet by the Jomtien IO stating I was to show proof of 800k or higher uninterrupted bank balance for the 90 days after my visa extension.

I cannot find that paper now, and I always keep this paperwork very squared away. So now, have I dreamt it all and there is no such requirement? Lol, I wantr more of whatever it is i'm taking if indeed that is the case.

Jomtien has been giving a sheet with the new rules on it with a date to show your updated bank book 3 months (aka 90 days) from the date you applied for your extension.

There is nothing the rules about showing proof the 800k baht is still there after 3 months. Many offices have been telling people it will be checked  when you apply for your next extension.

FYI the new rules are not posted on the immigration website. Download them by clicking this. Police Order 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22  

[kuma]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Jomtien has been giving a sheet with the new rules on it with a date to show your updated bank book 3 months (aka 90 days) from the date you applied for your extension.

There is nothing the rules about showing proof the 800k baht is still there after 3 months. Many offices have been telling people it will be checked  when you apply for your next extension.

FYI the new rules are not posted on the immigration website. Download them by clicking this. Police Order 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22  

Ok well nice to know not losing it too much, ha.

Yes they gave me that letter, it has been misplaced. When I visited Friday they stamped my 90 day and gave me a new 'voucher'. They did not ask me when reporting to produce a bankbook, but I had it in case. Now seems to be mixed messages if there is a separate date and process that does not line up with the 90 report - or if it is just more misdirection.

Thanks for the link to the police order, it plainly does not mention it there - but as you say Jomtien was handing out letters so Tuesday need to call and see if I am clear or need to return.

Cheers

[Mansell]

For money transfers I use OFX an Australian based company. They are cheaper than Transferwise and just as efficient. I just used them for a bunch of transfers with my Bangkok Bank charging very little. OFX has offices in the USA and the U.K. 

[kuma]

On 6/2/2019 at 7:49 PM, kuma said:

Ok well nice to know not losing it too much, ha.

Yes they gave me that letter, it has been misplaced. When I visited Friday they stamped my 90 day and gave me a new 'voucher'. They did not ask me when reporting to produce a bankbook, but I had it in case. Now seems to be mixed messages if there is a separate date and process that does not line up with the 90 report - or if it is just more misdirection.

Thanks for the link to the police order, it plainly does not mention it there - but as you say Jomtien was handing out letters so Tuesday need to call and see if I am clear or need to return.

Cheers

Well tuesday now and updating this as we drive to Jomtien IO. Called to inquire and they said yes they gave out letters and yes bankbook reporting is not the same date nor the same desk as the 90 day report ???? and yes i needed to come today and show my bankbook.

Unbelievable process, cannot comment on the process design as to do so would be impolite and make my blood boil. It reflects very poorly on the parties responsible and makes me wonder if taking any new work that might come my way, to assist companies looking to set up in Thailand, would be adviseable. Perhaps the good done in the decades past is being lost and part of the result is a sclerotic bureaucracy, among other things. In any event there are options.

So for those using Jomtien IO I would suggest having a bank book ready, inquire when doing your 90 day as to when/where (desk)/how you report - or you will end up returning like me, or paying a fine or worse.

Cheers for all earlier discussion and contributions.

[yodsak]

Just did my 3 mth bankbook check.   set off 13:00.  1 hour in bank to do a transfer & update book.  ,  soi 5 pandemonium.  but no need for queue ticket,  straight to desk 8. present bankbook with paperwork.  IO asks for copies of bankbook.   get copies 10฿.  hand them over ,  ok thats it until renewal.   back for 15:00.  didn't get stopped by the police.  A nice pleasant 2 hrs.   thailand 4.0 the digital age. more like stone age.   sclerotic bureaucracy indeed.

 

I did ask my agent if she could do it.  no, cannot.

 

 

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, yodsak said:

ok thats it until renewal.  

Good feedback that there was no requirement to return to prove you maintained the 400,000 baht until renewal time. So out on the town tonight with 400,000 baht to spend....watch out for the ladyboys.