Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

To add two additional negatives for Colombia --

 

Currency risk. Of course applicable to most countries, right now the COP is historically quite weak against the dollar (and presumably other western currencies), so things might look very cheap now at over 3000 per dollar but a few years down the line it could be very painful at 2000 per dollar. How to avoid? Well, Ecuador is dollarized.

 

Don't poo poo this risk. See the chart --

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=COP&view=5Y

 

Also note the retirement visa eligibility (and other financial levels for other visas) is based on calculating multiples of Colombia minimum wage in pesos of course. So at the current shockingly low 765 USD monthly requirement (this number is a correction and lower than previous posts) the vast majority of U.S. social security recipients would be eligible but go to 2,000 COP per dollar and that picture changes a lot. (Also the minimum wage increases annually.) I have mentioned before they have a history of grandfathering people that were eligible before and already live there, but it would a strong motivation to seek residency or citizenship. 

 

Venezuela risk. Already Colombia has welcomed well over a million refugees. It's a very positive sign about the decency of the government that they have done that. But there are limits. I don't think five million could be absorbed without a massive impact. So if Venezuela (literally or figurately) explodes, there is no way that can be good for Colombia. On the other hand if things get resolved there, it's fair to assume the majority of the current refugees will eventually go back. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[nausea]

Yeah, they'll be a tipping point eventually; we haven't reached it yet, after I'm dead hopefully - the pros still outway the cons for now. If the UK turns into a 3rd world country after Brexit, and women are again prowling the streets of London looking for customers, I might consider returning home. Ha!

[Jingthing]

Here is an excellent link, perhaps the best I've seen so far, and pretty much very good news. Except there is some bad news -- that possibly the U.S. state department won't do an apostille for any pension documents without a grantor signature, which social security benefits letters never have. More on that below as if it's true, that may limit people to applying for the visa in Colombia depending on the U.S. embassy in Bogota (which can be accessed via a paid lawyer). 

 

https://medellinguru.com/retirement-visa/

 

 

Quote

 

The Bottom Line: Obtaining a Colombia Retirement Visa

Colombia’s retirement visa is relatively easy to get with a low-income requirement. But it’s only intended for people who are retired with a retirement income.

The Colombian visa changes that went into effect in mid-December 2017 were significant.

 

 

 

It's clarifies and confirms a lot of things about the Colombia retirement visa.

 

Talking about officializing your pension claim, it suggests that the U.S. state department will no longer offer to apostille documents that don't have a signature, as social security benefits letters do not. I read of a similar issue in Peru. This explains why the U.S. embassies in Colombia and Peru are offering to officialize these letters which are accepted by Colombia and Peru immigration. Presumably, if those embassies stopped that service if your pension claim was social security benefits letter, lacking that one document would bar you from Colombia.

 

Hopefully they don't follow the behavior of the U.S. embassy in Bangkok in that regard!

 

Path towards residency and/or citizenship from retirement status explained (somewhat).

 

The issue I had before about the 15 day time window to get a cedula with a new visa mentioned the reasonable hope I had before, that the clock starts upon entering Colombia with the visa, not the date of visa issue.

 

The alternative of getting the visa in Thailand (or wherever else you're living) instead of home country or in Colombia is mentioned. That would be very interesting but it seems to me the problem is obvious for Thailand if using a social security benefits letter. If the State department can't help you it's fair to assume the U.S. embassy in Bangkok won't either. But it certainly would be "interesting" to ask them!

THREE years for the visa mentioned. That is definitely current. Totally ignore any website you read that is not up to date on that and still says it's one year. 

 

Residency requirements explained. Leave Colombia for over 6 months and the visa becomes void. Different than Thailand that way.

 

Important confirmation. Notice now a third credible source not mentioning any need for a police record report from your home country and/or your country of recent residence.

 

Age requirements!?! I can't seem to find that. Obviously old age social security benefits people are a minimum of age 62 but military pensions (which I assume but don't know for sure would be accepted) can start much younger than that. Not my concern but if you concerns you and you find the answer, please post. Perhaps there is no age requirement! If you've got a government pension, you may be assumed old enough. 

 

Private pensions? Don't know. Ask a lawyer maybe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[brokenbone]

what little i have signed up for 6 month contract i regret a lot,

imo theres a reason the landlord do it, and that is because

theres always a catch with the place, poor water-pressure/infested with insects/noise or any other shit,

that you wont know about until you stayed for a month

[puukao]

5 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

what little i have signed up for 6 month contract i regret a lot,

imo theres a reason the landlord do it, and that is because

theres always a catch with the place, poor water-pressure/infested with insects/noise or any other shit,

that you wont know about until you stayed for a month

always a scam.  must negotiate rent before then hope they can't do simple math on the electricity.  i've saved thousands of baht because they messed up the numbers.  try to get out with one-month notice.  usually takes 3-4 moves before you find a decent place.  surprisingly, a lower price might be much better.  you gotta get out now!!!  

[CaptainJack]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, I can see that for now at least this thread has become rather Colombia-centric. 

That's fine with me as my current thinking is that Colombia presents an unusually beneficial expatriation opportunity. Recovered from narco violence and civil war, a strong constitution, a very pro free trade government, very favorable dollar exchange rate, modern infrastructure, wonderful destinations with a wide variety of climate/geography/culture choices, seemingly relatively "easy" visa system, can drink water from the tap in most expat attractive cities (other than the beach ones), no instant path to permanent residence but still there is a three year initial retirement visa and definitely a path to citizenship, very very low financial requirements for retirement, low cost public transport and taxis (location dependent you won't need a car), a distinctive vibrant social culture that you'll probably either love or hate but worth checking out, the national health care system as I've described.

 

Negatives? Of course. 

The local food isn't the most interesting coming from anywhere in Asia or compared to other more culinary draw nations in Latin American such as Peru, Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico. But probably better than Central American food. Lack of very wide international food choices outside of the bigger cities. The capital city Bogota no doubt a great city but more of a draw to working and business expats than retired ones, and not featuring wonderful weather. Murders and violent crime way way down from the bad old days, but in general, yes, people would need to be more security aware in Colombia than in Thailand. It's Latin America so there is bureaucracy and rules can change, but overall it seems the trend there is to more modernization and efficiency. You need to learn Spanish there much more than you need to learn Thai in Thailand (but of course Spanish is much easier than Thai, you can at least read the words). The rental culture is a major pain. There will be gringo pricing. It may take you a long time to get into the culture to get closer to a local price for a rental (or you could pay "expat helpers" to give you an edge from the start). They generally require one or two (OMG) cosigners to rent housing (called fiador). There are ways around the cosigner thing. Going direct to owners rather than agencies and sniffing out the more desperate ones. Then negotiate. Without cosigners, could be as much as a year's deposit for example but then maybe you can negotiate it down to three months. But think about it, if your rent is 400, that's 2400 dollars for 12 months deposit, compare that to locking up 800K baht in a Thai bank account that you can't spend down under 400K. In that context, even a 12 month deposit is trivial. Anyway not to gloss over this as it's a common very big complaint. Go to Medellin and you will probably find it initially hard to find cheap enough rents for the type of housing in the type of neighborhood you as a foreigner will probably want to live in. That can be solvable over time but people looking for super easy and super cheap right from off the plane are coming and going after short periods. Or you could reduce this issue by not trying to move to the most famous and popular expat magnet Medellin. Air pollution, traffic congestion in the most popular expat city, Medellin. Food overall not as cheap as the cheapest food options in Thailand. Tropical Caribbean beach options will be hot and humid, and subject to tropical diseases. No bum guns and plumbing may be poor, so toilet paper buckets (yuck).

 

I'm sure there are many more positives and negatives that can be discovered. 

 

Keep in mind it's not only about Medellin.

Medellin is the obvious choice but it depends what you want and what you're going for. 

 

In the coffee region, the smaller less air polluted cities of Pereira, Manizales and even smaller Armenia have their attractions. More of an expat pioneer there which will appeal to some and scare others. 

 

Cali. What can I say? Not much. 

 

Bogota of course for those that need to be in the center of it all.

 

Santa Marta and world famous Cartagena on the Caribbean coast. Keeping it hot. 

 

Other big city for the expats pioneers -- Baranquila and Bucaramanga

 

I think those are the top of the list but of course just scratching the possibilities if you want to go more local there. 

 

A look at the diversity WITHIN Colombia. A lot to discover!

 

Thanks! I'm going to spend a few weeks in Merida and then fly to Bogota, rent a temporary place for a month and look around,  take some trips to other locations and see how I like it.  The visa requirements and process there is amazingly simple.   And, I know some Spanish.   I'll pick that back up pretty quickly.   Thanks for all the useful information.   It is Sunday here, so I fly tomorrow.   I'm all packed and ready. I'll let y'all know how it goes. 

[CaptainJack]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Here is an excellent link, perhaps the best I've seen so far, and pretty much very good news. Except there is some bad news -- that possibly the U.S. state department won't do an apostille for any pension documents without a grantor signature, which social security benefits letters never have. More on that below as if it's true, that may limit people to applying for the visa in Colombia depending on the U.S. embassy in Bogota (which can be accessed via a paid lawyer). 

 

https://medellinguru.com/retirement-visa/

 

 

 

 

It's clarifies and confirms a lot of things about the Colombia retirement visa.

 

Talking about officializing your pension claim, it suggests that the U.S. state department will no longer offer to apostille documents that don't have a signature, as social security benefits letters do not. I read of a similar issue in Peru. This explains why the U.S. embassies in Colombia and Peru are offering to officialize these letters which are accepted by Colombia and Peru immigration. Presumably, if those embassies stopped that service if your pension claim was social security benefits letter, lacking that one document would bar you from Colombia.

 

Hopefully they don't follow the behavior of the U.S. embassy in Bangkok in that regard!

 

Path towards residency and/or citizenship from retirement status explained (somewhat).

 

The issue I had before about the 15 day time window to get a cedula with a new visa mentioned the reasonable hope I had before, that the clock starts upon entering Colombia with the visa, not the date of visa issue.

 

The alternative of getting the visa in Thailand (or wherever else you're living) instead of home country or in Colombia is mentioned. That would be very interesting but it seems to me the problem is obvious for Thailand if using a social security benefits letter. If the State department can't help you it's fair to assume the U.S. embassy in Bangkok won't either. But it certainly would be "interesting" to ask them!

THREE years for the visa mentioned. That is definitely current. Totally ignore any website you read that is not up to date on that and still says it's one year. 

 

Residency requirements explained. Leave Colombia for over 6 months and the visa becomes void. Different than Thailand that way.

 

Important confirmation. Notice now a third credible source not mentioning any need for a police record report from your home country and/or your country of recent residence.

 

Age requirements!?! I can't seem to find that. Obviously old age social security benefits people are a minimum of age 62 but military pensions (which I assume but don't know for sure would be accepted) can start much younger than that. Not my concern but if you concerns you and you find the answer, please post. Perhaps there is no age requirement! If you've got a government pension, you may be assumed old enough. 

 

Private pensions? Don't know. Ask a lawyer maybe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The information I got which was current as of January 2019 was the Embassy in Colombia,  with proper documentation,  will certify your retirement income, even if military or a private pension plan, which Colombian immigration accepts.  

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

The information I got which was current as of January 2019 was the Embassy in Colombia,  with proper documentation,  will certify your retirement income, even if military or a private pension plan, which Colombian immigration accepts.  

Yes, but hopefully they will continue that service considering the negative information that it is no longer possible to get an apostille for unsigned benefits documents via the State Department in the U.S.

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, brokenbone said:

what little i have signed up for 6 month contract i regret a lot,

imo theres a reason the landlord do it, and that is because

theres always a catch with the place, poor water-pressure/infested with insects/noise or any other shit,

that you wont know about until you stayed for a month

Well the subject was about the special cultural issues with renting an apartment in Colombia. They impact Colombian nationals and foreigners! Fiadors (one or sometimes two cosigners) are typically required. It would be a very unusual new expat that has even one Colombian cosigner. So without a cosigner the options are overpriced "for foriegners" apartments or Airbnb's etc. That's fine for initial temporary housing but if you're really moving there, you'll want to stop overpaying. So short of miraculous fiadors emerging, you need to make a deal, and the deal will usually involve giving the landlord a significant deposit of from three months to a year's rent. It's my understanding (not fully verified) that these negotiated fiador avoidance deposits are literally deposits, not prepaid full rent. In any case, deposits or prepaid rent (or both) this situation is without a doubt quite a negative aspect about the realities of moving to Colombia. 

I'm not trying to sugarcoat any expatriation option. The hassles might be worth it for some and not worth it for others. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[CaptainJack]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well the subject was about the special cultural issues with renting an apartment in Colombia. They impact Colombian nationals and foreigners! Fiadors (one or sometimes two cosigners) are typically required. It would be a very unusual new expat that has even one Colombian cosigner. So without a cosigner the options are overpriced "for foriegners" apartments or Airbnb's etc. That's fine for initial temporary housing but if you're really moving there, you'll want to stop overpaying. So short of miraculous fiadors emerging, you need to make a deal, and the deal will usually involve giving the landlord a significant deposit of from three months to a year's rent. It's my understanding (not fully verified) that these negotiated fiador avoidance deposits are literally deposits, not prepaid full rent. In any case, deposits or prepaid rent (or both) this situation is without a doubt quite a negative aspect about the realities of moving to Colombia. 

I'm not trying to sugarcoat any expatriation option. The hassles might be worth it for some and not worth it for others. 

There are a lot of if's right now. I will be on the ground in Merida tomorrow night.  

 

The plan right now is hole up their for awhile.   See how it feels.  I've got 6 months on a tourist visa to start to nail down the current system in both Mexico and other Latin American countries. 

 

I am taking all my necessary documents for Colombia with me in case I want to jumpstart the 3 year visa program.  

 

The plan right now is go chill in Merida.  I feel like I've been through the ringer for the last few months.  Mostly my own doing, in that I crammed in a last minute month travel to Sydney and the south island of New Zealand.  I don't regret that,  but it did set me back energy and monetarily.   

 

I have moved flying to Bogota to the top of the list after sometime in Merida.   I'll have definitive information on the many topics and questions discussed to share with this group. 

 

I really appreciate everyone's support and comments in this topic.  Y'all actually have made my joining TV worth the often gauntlet of assaults and negativity that I just do not understand why that is necessary.   

 

I'll stay on this topic, and no others and do my best to get accurate information posted as I get it myself. 

 

Cheers! 

[Jingthing]

Best of luck in all your adventures. I envy your long stay in Merida for the food alone but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to live there because of the extreme heat and humidity. For me if there's going to be high heat and humidity it should be near a beach.
Do keep us posted.

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[Jingthing]

This may interest some people. A new investment visa for Ecuador with increased benefits. I don't know the rules yet. They have a current investment visa but I'd say don't bother looking it up because this new one is coming. Although I'm now clear Colombia is currently on the top of my Latin American list, Ecuador is interesting as well. Cuenca particularly and also Ecuador like Colombia offers a buy in to a decent national health insurance program. 

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/ecuador-updates-investors-visa-rules-craft-beer-and-food-festival-tram-is-free-for-60-days-more-coopera-pay-outs-cheap-chinese-imports/

 

Quote

New visas – Ecuador will issue a new type of investor visa that will allow the visa holder unlimited entries and exits, without limits on stays out of the country. It will also permit multiple renewals.

 

[SiamAndy]

Jingthing, Would you happen to have any insight on the Annual Temporary Resident Visa renewal process for Mexico and the process of converting it to a Permanent Resident Visa? The monetary requirements for the Temporary resident visa are much lower.

 

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, SiamAndy said:

Jingthing, Would you happen to have any insight on the Annual Temporary Resident Visa renewal process for Mexico and the process of converting it to a Permanent Resident Visa? The monetary requirements for the Temporary resident visa are much lower.

 

 

I am not really familiar with the annual renewal process in Mexico. Yes the show money for annual is much lower than the "permanent" option. Roughly 25K USD vs. 95K USD. The other option is pension based but their pension requirements are similar to Thailand's level meaning the majority of U.S. social security recipients don't get that much. 

 

My plan if I decided on Mexico (not very likely) was to apply for a "permanent" based on show money in the U.S. though there was a report here that during the interview process they will sometimes decide to not accept the permanent application and only grant a one year instead even if you legitimately financially qualify for the permanent. 

 

I'll repeat a question I still have. For the show money option in the U.S. do they accept money in IRA accounts? I know they accept bank and brokerage accounts, but don't know about IRAs. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

OK, here is a big reveal.

I'm already clear based on a number of factors I already knew and some other ones I recently discovered, that Colombia is currently my top choice country to possibly live in Latin America.

But there are many choices in Colombia.

So where in Colombia?

Well, it's no secret that Medellin is by far the most popular destination for expats in Colombia.

Medellin is also high on my list. But also on my list are two much smaller cities in the Coffee region -- Periera and Armenia.

This video is excellent in that regard as it's an overview of the pros and cons of living in Medellin, what kinds of expats are best for Medellin, and the alternatives of the much lesser known Pereira and Armenia are also mentioned in contrast (pro and con) to Medellin.

 

When choosing a place to live for the long term, perhaps it's useful to think about how you might feel about your choice years later.

 

I'm conflicted on this choice.

 

I very much appreciate the much bigger city advantages of Medellin. Much more international stuff. Not possible to be bored. Particularly on the food front -- Medellin is clearly massively superior in variety. That is probably a bigger deal for me than most people because of passion about international foods.

 

But as we get older things like the hottest salsa clubs or even nightlife in general tend to greatly diminish in importance. 

 

So I think from a retirement POV, as this guy mentions in the video, Medellin is better for what he calls "active" retirees but I would also add younger retirees. 

 

Also the negatives of Medellin of air pollution and congested traffic matter to me compared to the much less polluted coffee region cities. But if you're retired, you can travel during off peak hours, and as said in the video choose less central less polluted areas to live in, though I wouldn't want to live far out of town in the hills just for the inconvenience sake. So that part is partly manageable.

Cost of living? It is according to my research higher in Medellin vs. the coffee regions, perhaps 20 to 30 percent. Trying to live on social security, that matters especially considering it's predictable that someday the peso will strengthen. 

 

Boring factor? The coffee region cities, particularly very small "big" city Armenia are DEFINITELY going to be more boring, likely much more boring, possibly intolerably boring over time compared to Medellin. But back to what I said before, as people grow older how much "excitement" do they really need? That's a personal question you'd need to answer and also project into your future.

 

People that currently live in Pattaya or Bangkok for example and are enjoying and participating in all the "excitement" that such places offer are definitely not good candidates for living a small city in Colombia or anywhere. 

 

So anyway, in conclusion, the big reveal, my current top destination choices in Colombia, a country I've never been to (which adds a definite silly factor because you need to visit for sure) are:

 

One -- Armenia

Two -- Medellin

Three -- Pereira (kind of further back than third implies)

 

I guess another totally doable idea (which I would also consider) is start out in Medellin while the peso is still weak and enjoy the city until (if ever) the downsides of the big city overtake the benefits (those that you still value and appreciate). Then later, if you it makes sense, you can move to a slower place. 

As long as you're renting of course. There are other arguments for at least starting out in Medellin. Because it's the top expat magnet, it would be a more comfortable place to ease into the Spanish speaking reality of living in Colombia. There are numerous Spanish learning opportunities there but there will still be enough English speaking residents for the comfort zone. Of course having an expat bubble may mean never learning enough Spanish. A downside of just starting in Medellin is that you might be building a social network in a place you're likely to leave. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Oh, I forgot to mention the assertion in the video that the two top digital nomad destinations n the world are Medellin and Chiang Mai. I don't think if that's technically true, but they are both very popular for digital nomads. This thread isn't the only place people are referring the choice of Thailand (and other Asean countries) as an expat destination to choices in Latin America. It's quite common actually. 

[Jingthing]

Amusing observations. I've personally already rejected Guanajuato and Allende as expat destinations but not Queretaro. I've been to none of those places though. I have been to Mexico City which is truly a great city but I can't picture it as a retirement destination.
If I had much more income I wouldn't throw Puerto Vallarta out of bed though there are spells of intolerably hot and humid weather and also hurricane season risk.

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[Jingthing]

Probably goes without saying but I hope people don't get the impression that I am selling Colombia, my personal top picks in Colombia, or moving to Latin America in general. I've reached my current top picks based on much consideration of my personal priorities and limitations which are mostly financial and visa related.

Your personal priorities and limitations are going to be different.

So nobody can tell you which might be the best fits for you.

Also of course destinations can look like great fits on paper but you've got to visit preferably for a long stay consciously doing expat research on the ground as opposed to mostly tourism. Many places that are amazing as a tourist won't be good expat fits at all.

That said some people do move to new countries without even visiting first and its possible to get lucky doing that.

So I might think Medellin is a top choice for me but arrive and realize no way the first day.

Similar to the report about Guanajuato. I think that kind of thing is very common.

Sometimes you just know a place doesn't feel right perhaps similar to going on a dud blind date.

 

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[brokenbone]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Probably goes without saying but I hope people don't get the impression that I am selling Colombia, my personal top picks in Colombia, or moving to Latin America in general. I've reached my current top picks based on much consideration of my personal priorities and limitations which are mostly financial and visa related.

Your personal priorities and limitations are going to be different.

So nobody can tell you which might be the best fits for you.

Also of course destinations can look like great fits on paper but you've got to visit preferably for a long stay consciously doing expat research on the ground as opposed to mostly tourism. Many places that are amazing as a tourist won't be good expat fits at all.

That said some people do move to new countries without even visiting first and its possible to get lucky doing that.

So I might think Medellin is a top choice for me but arrive and realize no way the first day.

Similar to the report about Guanajuato. I think that kind of thing is very common.

Sometimes you just know a place doesn't feel right perhaps similar to going on a dud blind date.

 

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only things i knew about thailand before coming here

was i could practice muay thai, it had lotsa chinese so i could eat chicken curry any time, and it was warm weather.

turns out i never did recover as i expected so muay thai was out, also turned out chicken curry is actually an indian dish so that was also out, but thailand did have warm weather so i fit right in, cept the endless visa hassle/ runs,

and i began enjoying the food after a couple of years

[Jingthing]

See. It happens. Save some money on checking it out.

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[Jingthing]

Perhaps nobody is asking if you're talking about Colombia, why not the world famous beach city of Cartegena? Why not indeed.

 

Personally I have lived in Pattaya so long (another international beach resort city) that I feel if I leave I want to try something completely different. But I recently mentioned Puerto Vallarta Mexico yet another beach resort city (which I can't afford) as a place that I wouldn't mind living in so that contradicts. Well, I think the reason is that I have extra special warm feelings about Vallarta. I have spent more time there and traveled there more often than any other place abroad outside of Thailand. 

 

So back to Cartagena. What about it?

 

Well, you can do your own research, but this link is a start. 

 

https://medellinliving.com/medellin-vs-cartagena/

 

As expected living in Cartagena is significantly more expensive than Medellin.  Medellin is probably also safer. But there are advantages to Cartagena if you can afford it. 

 

The link is worth a read as it has a point by point comparison. Personally I'm already convinced I don't want to live in Cartagena or anywhere on the Caribbean coast but it certainly sounds like a great place to at least visit. 

 

Then there is pollution. I knew Medellin had an air pollution problem but I hadn't realized it was this bad --

 

Quote

The World Health Organization (WHO) last year reported that Medellín was ranked #9 in a list of the 10 cities most polluted in Latin America.

Back to my Medellin vs. smaller coffee region cities comparison, that's a stronger pollution reason to lean towards the coffee region. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[SiamAndy]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OK, here is a big reveal.

I'm already clear based on a number of factors I already knew and some other ones I recently discovered, that Colombia is currently my top choice country to possibly live in Latin America.

But there are many choices in Colombia.

So where in Colombia?

Well, it's no secret that Medellin is by far the most popular destination for expats in Colombia.

Medellin is also high on my list. But also on my list are two much smaller cities in the Coffee region -- Periera and Armenia.

This video is excellent in that regard as it's an overview of the pros and cons of living in Medellin, what kinds of expats are best for Medellin, and the alternatives of the much lesser known Pereira and Armenia are also mentioned in contrast (pro and con) to Medellin.

 

When choosing a place to live for the long term, perhaps it's useful to think about how you might feel about your choice years later.

 

I'm conflicted on this choice.

 

I very much appreciate the much bigger city advantages of Medellin. Much more international stuff. Not possible to be bored. Particularly on the food front -- Medellin is clearly massively superior in variety. That is probably a bigger deal for me than most people because of passion about international foods.

 

But as we get older things like the hottest salsa clubs or even nightlife in general tend to greatly diminish in importance. 

 

So I think from a retirement POV, as this guy mentions in the video, Medellin is better for what he calls "active" retirees but I would also add younger retirees. 

 

Also the negatives of Medellin of air pollution and congested traffic matter to me compared to the much less polluted coffee region cities. But if you're retired, you can travel during off peak hours, and as said in the video choose less central less polluted areas to live in, though I wouldn't want to live far out of town in the hills just for the inconvenience sake. So that part is partly manageable.

Cost of living? It is according to my research higher in Medellin vs. the coffee regions, perhaps 20 to 30 percent. Trying to live on social security, that matters especially considering it's predictable that someday the peso will strengthen. 

 

Boring factor? The coffee region cities, particularly very small "big" city Armenia are DEFINITELY going to be more boring, likely much more boring, possibly intolerably boring over time compared to Medellin. But back to what I said before, as people grow older how much "excitement" do they really need? That's a personal question you'd need to answer and also project into your future.

 

People that currently live in Pattaya or Bangkok for example and are enjoying and participating in all the "excitement" that such places offer are definitely not good candidates for living a small city in Colombia or anywhere. 

 

So anyway, in conclusion, the big reveal, my current top destination choices in Colombia, a country I've never been to (which adds a definite silly factor because you need to visit for sure) are:

 

One -- Armenia

Two -- Medellin

Three -- Pereira (kind of further back than third implies)

 

I guess another totally doable idea (which I would also consider) is start out in Medellin while the peso is still weak and enjoy the city until (if ever) the downsides of the big city overtake the benefits (those that you still value and appreciate). Then later, if you it makes sense, you can move to a slower place. 

As long as you're renting of course. There are other arguments for at least starting out in Medellin. Because it's the top expat magnet, it would be a more comfortable place to ease into the Spanish speaking reality of living in Colombia. There are numerous Spanish learning opportunities there but there will still be enough English speaking residents for the comfort zone. Of course having an expat bubble may mean never learning enough Spanish. A downside of just starting in Medellin is that you might be building a social network in a place you're likely to leave. 

 

 

 

 

 

Are there good hospitals in the smaller Columbian cities that you mentioned? Seems the best Columbian hospitals are in Medellin or Bogota. Is it easy to open a bank account in Columbia or will it be pot luck like here in TL?

 

A friend of mine is in Merida Mexico and besides the hot and humid weather, he mentioned that the cost of food and drinks are higher than advertised. Additionally, my friend mentioned that the streets are not that clean as other Mexican cities and the people are less friendly as compared to other parts of Mexico.

[tutsiwarrior]

I had a coupla pals from Colombia in high school in Nashville where I had just arrived after 2 years in Bolivia...and I was fluent in spanish but I had a hard time understanding these guys who were from the caribbean coast...later I was working with some cubans in Nicaragua and had the same difficulty, they were nearly impossible to understand...then I found myself having a chat in spanish with a colombian woman from Bogota in the UK somewhere and remarked that her spanish was quite different from the caribbean spanish and she sighed and said that the caribbeans 'se comen las palabras'...gotta be careful where you choose to learn the language if you settle there...

 

had a lot of the same difficulty with the locals in Santiago in Chile...I didn't understand as everyone could understand me OK but couldn't place my accent 'y de donde es usted?' 'me? I'm from Los Angeles...'

 

 

[Jingthing]

 
Are there good hospitals in the smaller Columbian cities that you mentioned? Seems the best Columbian hospitals are in Medellin or Bogota. Is it easy to open a bank account in Columbia or will it be pot luck like here in TL?
 
A friend of mine is in Merida Mexico and besides the hot and humid weather, he mentioned that the cost of food and drinks are higher than advertised. Additionally, my friend mentioned that the streets are not that clean as other Mexican cities and the people are less friendly as compared to other parts of Mexico.

All good questions.

I actually mentioned a report on this thread already that Merida restaurant prices are relatively high for Mexico.

I still have limited info on the Colombia banking situation. I assume you need your cedula ID card to open an account. No need to import money for retirement visa purposes though so you could begin at least via Atm from outside accounts.

Also limited info on whether provincial hospitals are adequate enough except that the world class ones will be in some of the largest cities as you suppose.





Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CaptainJack]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

All good questions.

I actually mentioned a report on this thread already that Merida restaurant prices are relatively high for Mexico.

I still have limited info on the Colombia banking situation. I assume you need your cedula ID card to open an account. No need to import money for retirement visa purposes though so you could begin at least via Atm from outside accounts.

Also limited info on whether provincial hospitals are adequate enough except that the world class ones will be in some of the largest cities as you suppose.





Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I'll be in Merida in 3 hours. I have accommodations for two weeks. If I find it not suitable,  I'll book a flight to Bogota and check it out.

 

PS. I have had to do some real soul searching about this issue of "where to live"? It is ironic in that after everything that went down in my circumstances,  I finally came to understand myself and what my personal limitations are regarding living in Thailand. 

 

As I looked really into myself,  it was not the money. It was not the medical.  It was not the constant hoops one has to jump through to live in Thailand. 

 

It really came down to I just don't want to live in a country that changes the rules as often as I change underwear.   The never knowing from one day to the next, "what's next"?

 

I guess it boiled down to this simple idea.   That was, "I'd rather live in a Communist country or a corrupt country like Cambodia then live in this constant state of turmoil in Thailand ".

 

I even made my peace,  best I could with it's okay to just die in Thailand if I could not afford the medical.  

 

I'm free to go check out other places and see what it is like on the ground.  I've spent time in Cambodia,  and I have to say, when Cambodia starts to look better to so many expats then Thailand,  there is a serious problem. 

 

Anyway,  my flight boards in 30 minutes from here in Houston. 

 

I'll check in later....

Edited March 11, 2019 by CaptainJack
Better wording.

[CaptainJack]

 

I made it. My brain is upside down with another culture shift, but, it's all good. Now, drink and food.  Then, sleep.

 

Tomorrow starts a new day for me...

 

La Parrilla
Calle 60 por 59, Centro, 97000 Mérida, Yuc., Mexico
+52 999 928 1691
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HeDR7

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

 

I made it. My brain is upside down with another culture shift, but, it's all good. Now, drink and food.  Then, sleep.

 

Tomorrow starts a new day for me...

 

La Parrilla
Calle 60 por 59, Centro, 97000 Mérida, Yuc., Mexico
+52 999 928 1691
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HeDR7

good idea to take pics cj, so we get a whiff of the atmosphere.

also came to the same conclusion as you,

i want to left alone from authorities,

that is why my no.1 priority is citizenship,

and if i cant get to a place that gives me that,

a hassle free pay as you go visa,

preferably done by an agent so i wont have to see them even

Edited March 12, 2019 by brokenbone

[Jingthing]

To the traveling Captain -- I get the impression that you're more interested in Bogota than the typical retired expat considering Colombia. I'm curious to know why and of course more curious about your experiences once there.

 

I haven't really considered Bogota because of --

Higher cost (relatively in Colombia)

Massive city (I'm not really into megacities like Bangkok, Mexico City, etc.) for retirement living

High crime in some areas, safe in others (OK you can say that about most cities of any size in most of the world)

Colder weather, greyer weather (described as depressing)

Very high altitude (some people have no problem with that and some do, sometimes it can take several months before you know health-wise)

 

Of course I understand that Bogota has it all and the cities I'm considered have less, even much much less. But other than that, do you have other reasons for an interest in Bogota?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

good idea to take pics cj, so we get a whiff of the atmosphere.

also came to the same conclusion as you,

i want to left alone from authorities,

that is why my no.1 priority is citizenship,

and if i cant get to a place that gives me that,

a hassle free pay as you go visa,

preferably done by an agent so i wont have to see them even

I hear you and I also have a very high priority now of at least some kind of reasonable path to permanent residency. Yes I realize they can still take it away. I'm more ambivalent about citizenship. 

Anyway, as I've said before, even though for a number of reasons Colombia still looks like the best option for me, the fact that they don't offer permanent residence on first application is a definite downside. So going in for three years, there is of course no guarantee that a person will still be eligible based on whatever the rules (or their financial level vs. the exchange rate) are in three years. But three years still sounds pretty good to start, it's 60 percent of a 5 year Thai Elite card! Just trying to keep it real. Short of citizenship, there aren't any guarantees anywhere. OK, someone is going to say countries can take citizenship away, well, that's really rare. 

[CaptainJack]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

To the traveling Captain -- I get the impression that you're more interested in Bogota than the typical retired expat considering Colombia. I'm curious to know why and of course more curious about your experiences once there.

 

I haven't really considered Bogota because of --

Higher cost (relatively in Colombia)

Massive city (I'm not really into megacities like Bangkok, Mexico City, etc.) for retirement living

High crime in some areas, safe in others (OK you can say that about most cities of any size in most of the world)

Colder weather, greyer weather (described as depressing)

Very high altitude (some people have no problem with that and some do, sometimes it can take several months before you know health-wise)

 

Of course I understand that Bogota has it all and the cities I'm considered have less, even much much less. But other than that, do you have other reasons for an interest in Bogota?

Awake a bit. Quick answer is Borgata is only a first stop, for easy of arrival, access to most things western and visa stuff.

 

I lived for years at almost 3000 meters and did well, and the cold does not bother me as much.  Medellin actually sounds more appealing.   Regardless of which one, I'll check out both.

 

But! The simplicity of getting my visa in Columbia really is a bid draw.  I will go to Columbia and check it out after some time here.  I need some time to get grounded first.  Feel a bit frayed.  Going back to sleep....  night...