Thinking About Retirement in Thailand? Better Have 1.6 Million Baht in the Bank.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I think their greed and xenophobia may prove you wrong in time.

There is nothing at all new about greed and xenophobia here: I remember that it was exactly the same 40+ years ago. Yet they have managed to "grandfather" retirees at the old rates up until now.

 

If I was Thai I would be quite keen to get old and decrepit farangs to stay here as it is the old and decrepit who spend the most on medical and other care bills, and who leave the most money to their Thai partners when they die. That includes the money on deposit for extensions.

[morrobay]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Another hypothetical post pretty much about nothing. Maybe tact it onto "future compulsory health insurance".... 2 pages already. Hells bells.....

Right and why is income not included here ? Even on a very low baseline say 45000/mo that would be over ten million baht in 20 years. Yes there is some good heads up information here but what's up with these sorry people injecting their morbid comments all over various topics ? About giving up on this forum. 

[dotpoom]

Isn't there enough stuff going on in the world to concern oneself about ...without creating new things to add to the basket?

    Maybe there could be another Sunami... Wonder how much I would need to get out of that one etc , etc , etc.,?

[JimSaints]

15 hours ago, KittenKong said:

They did. And anyone who was already on a retirement extension at the lower rate was allowed to continue it at that lower rate.

 

I see no reason why they should not do the same next time.

Maybe because they are not so consistent are they ?

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

There is nothing at all new about greed and xenophobia here: I remember that it was exactly the same 40+ years ago. Yet they have managed to "grandfather" retirees at the old rates up until now.

I find it more blatant in the cities nowadays than when I first visited in the 1980s. It is as if we overstayed our welcome. As to officialdom, didn't really need to deal with it so much, as a tourist fewer hoops.

[lamyai3]

Funny to think how 5 short years ago it was posited that you could retire here on $500 a month...

 

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/moving-overseas-cuts-retirement-costs-154455609.html

[Ahab]

While it would be nice to have 1.6 million in cash it is completely unnecessary. I use the income method of greater than 65K baht per month and also have healthcare (with multiple pre-existing conditions that are not covered by my Thai insurance), and US Tricare. Most healthcare here is inexpensive and even hospital stays of a few days are very reasonable. If you need a triple bypass 800K baht may be a good idea, but for most health care it is over the top in my opinion. 

[UKresonant]

12 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Got all that, and (considerably more)but the problem of opening a Thai bank account without a 12 mnth lease is proving difficult. (have 6 month lease, as I wanted flexibility to move+  Income of 60, 000 bht per month from pension.

I was not informed when granted visa that funds had to be held in Thai Bank, do not feel comfortable transferring funds into a Thai account with all the changes, and have been caught before when a regime change occurred elsewhere and accounts for foreigners seized, and not ever returned

.

 

 

Totally agree with that one, the other thing is the amount of effort required on the retirement front, to gain say 11 months of reasonable certainty seems dis-proportionate. If I were not here on a married basis, two SE tourist visas P.A. would be more than enough I think! 

[newnative]

    What you need all depends on whether you are receiving a steady pension and other monthly benefits such as social security.  I receive a pension and social security so I would not need 5 million baht to live on.  Both payments are pegged to inflation and are easily keeping up with any price rises in Thailand. 

     I keep 800,000 baht in a savings account to do my annual retirement, another 200,000 or so in a regular bank account, and around $35,000 in an American account.  When my Thai bank account runs low, I transfer $

[newnative]

Just now, newnative said:

    What you need all depends on whether you are receiving a steady pension and other monthly benefits such as social security.  I receive a pension and social security so I would not need 5 million baht to live on.  Both payments are pegged to inflation and are easily keeping up with any price rises in Thailand. 

     I keep 800,000 baht in a savings account to do my annual retirement, another 200,000 or so in a regular bank account, and around $35,000 in an American account.  When my Thai bank account runs low, I transfer $

Oops, computer glitch.  I was saying when my account runs low I transfer 4 or 5 thousand dollars from my American account using Transferwise.  Obviously, what you are going to need is not a one-size-fits-all figure. 

[baansgr]

As the last increase as mentioned  was due to the devaluation  of the baht.... In theory the amount  should decrease to incorporate the strength  of the baht. However,  with all the latest changes,  once those have left that have to and those with 800k feel safe and comfortable, wouldn't  be surprised if an extensive increase for extensions comes into force in the near future just to keep Johnny foreigner on his toes. 

[onera1961]

14 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Not if you marry a Thai that works for the government.

Small thought for a small being. If you want to engineer your marriage, why not aim for some thing greater than a government officer.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Enough of this one-size-fits-all nonsense. I speak for the farangs living all around Thailand who do not conform to this arbitrary financial need. Some are wealthy but in poor health and will die sooner rather than later; some are living happily on a basic state or military pension and in perfect health. Some will contract life-threatening diseases, from which no amount of money will save them; others will die natural deaths in due course and leave their spouses a modest sum with which to live out their lives. There are countless shades of circumstance in between. Such is the lottery of life.

[thaicurious]

Even with the past depegging to float the baht, inflation alone need be a concern especially for 800k baht not held in an account that at least keeps up with inflation after taxes.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/core-inflation-rate

"Core Inflation Rate in Thailand averaged 2.58 percent from 1985 until 2019"

 

That rate of inflation comes to a doubling about every 27 years. The 20 year proposed timeline on an initial 880k at 2.58% annual inflation comes to 1,465,000 baht in 2039.

 

But future inflation is unknown. As are future immigration policies, of course.

 

There might be hint of direction though and it might not look badly for today's "younger" expats (the mere 60 year olds looking forward to 20 years in Thailand) for two reasons: the aging Thai population which will likely require increased immigration to at least hold steady or, better, grow GDP.

 

Plus, out of that aging Thai society, and then of course with the aging immigrant workers could give rise to a long term care industry welcoming of expat retirees and here's some figures on that...

 

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-june-2016-aging-society-and-economy

 

• As of 2016, 11% of the Thai population (about 7.5 million people) are 65 years or older, compared to 5% in 1995.
• By 2040, it is projected that 17 million Thais will be 65 years or older – more than a quarter of the population.
• The primary driver of aging has been the steep decline in fertility rates, which fell from 6.1 in 1965 to 1.5 in 2015
• The working age population is expected to shrink by around 11% as a share of the total population between now and 2040 – from 49 million people to around 40.5 million people.
• This decline in working age population is higher in Thailand than in all other developing East Asia and Pacific countries, including China.
• At the same time, this demographic shift will position Thailand as a provider of services to the growing elderly population across the region.

 

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jar/2018/4180565/

"...This study estimates the average spending on LTC (long term care) services and identifies the factors that influence the use and cost of LTC for the elderly living in urban and rural areas of Thailand....

 

...The total annual LTC spending for rural and urban residents was on average USD 7,285 and USD 7,280.6, respectively...."

 

So the avg US social security is about $17,532, leaving room for the Thais to profit if just turning over that check to a facility. Given the relatively extremely high costs of LTC in the west, that could be very lucrative for the Thais. Plus, depending on regulation, that could even open a cottage industry for local assisted living facilities set up even in family homes.

 

The cost savings to westerners over what they'd pay in west might make it a win for everyone...

 

https://longtermcare.acl.gov/costs-how-to-pay/costs-of-care.html

Below are some national average costs for long-term care in the United States (in 2016). 

• $225 a day or $6,844 per month for a semi-private room in a nursing home
• $253 a day or $7,698 per month for a private room in a nursing home
• $119 a day or $3,628 per month for care in an assisted living facility (for a one-bedroom unit)

[Farang99]

They more than doubled it in 1998 - it went from 200K to 800K. I missed out on grandfathering retirement by 1 year!

[Captain 776]

I am glad that yesrs ago I set up my USA Social Security and a few other funds get directly deposited in Bangkok Bank N Y City and they far exceed any requirements that may change in the years I have left on this rock.

 

best wishes to all others

[4MyEgo]

Irregardless is they double the rate for either the marriage extension or retirement extension from 400,000 to 800,000 or 800,000 to 1.600,000 baht farangs in my opinion should not even think about retiring or moving to Thailand unless they have either a monthly income of double what is the requirement for a marriage extension and or a retirement extension, i.e. 40,000 baht to 80,000 baht per month, or 65,000 to 130,000 baht per month.

 

I mean let's face it, you can't expect to sponge off the Thai public hospitals as a Thai, i.e. unless you work and pay taxes here or have done so in the past and obtained Thai Citizenship. I mean just think about it, how would you feel if a foreigner did this back in your 1st world country, not right and sure they do, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Fact of the matter is if you cannot afford to pay for private health cover here in Thailand, i.e. if you are eligible, e.g. under the entry age to enter most private hospital policies, around 60-65 years of age, you shouldn't even be here, in particular that applies to those older, no offence, life's beach. One needs a minimum of 10,000 baht per month for cover so do the math, and that is my reason for stating the above, so for those who have an income of 80,000 baht per month for marriage extension and 130,000 for retirement extension, your fine, for the others, well you made your bed, now you lay in it, calling a spade a spade, that's all.

 

For those who worked their buns off, saved, invested and are now reaping the rewards, give yourself a pat on the back, because you wouldn't even be bothered with the baht dropping further, because as we all know, what goes down, must comeback up.

 

For those who want to have a go, yeh well the truth hurts oi !

[Pravda]

I don't plan on spending my retirement in Thailand, but if I did I would simply get a 20 year 1 million baht Elite Visa instead of being hassled with annual extensions for 1.6mil (which I presume 800k would be locked) in a Thai bank account. Even if I retire at 50 the elite visa would give me until I was 70 (or 71) to remain in Thailand. I know there are quite a few grandpa superman in Pattaya, but at 70 you are pretty close to your expiration date.

 

 

[PGSan]

30 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

I know there are quite a few grandpa superman in Pattaya, but at 70 you are pretty close to your expiration date.

Heh, you mean there are none of us elsewhere in the world ? I never knew that! 

 

Speaking as a recent recruit to this supergroup, both in my self and according to the medical data, at 70 I still have a long way to go to even my Best Before date.  Far healthier than I have been for most if the last 30 years.  Mean life expectancy for 70-year olds with my background seems to be around 15-17 years so I have a lot of time for expiring in a couple of decades time.

 

Of course this gives rise to the problem of finding the income to keep up the superman lifestyle for another 20 years or more, but now I am healthy enough to not worry too much about that, so all good.

 

Of course, Khun Pravda, you are welcome to stamp yourself with whatever Expiry Date you wish, but please keep your biased hands off the date stamps of your superior, healthier and wiser elders.????

 

For many life begins at 70, provided they can still afford to live it for another 20 years.  PG  XX ????

Edited March 5, 2019 by PGSan

[RichardColeman]

18 hours ago, KittenKong said:

They did. And anyone who was already on a retirement extension at the lower rate was allowed to continue it at that lower rate.

 

I see no reason why they should not do the same next time.

NO reason ? Like the promises of elections changes every year ? 

[crazykopite]

If that were to happen I would be relocating to a neighbouring country , it’s bad enough having 800,000 tied up in a Thai Bank just to satisfy immigration. Last week I received a text message from my SCB bank  ( I use two separate Thai banks ) informing me that the branch had closed down and that my account had now been transferred to another SCB bank ,they didn’t even give me an opportunity to close my account they just took it that transferring my account was okay so I now have to drive 15kms more to my new allocated SCB bank even though there was one closer . Thank goodness I do online banking but there will be times when I have to go to for example get my confirmation letter of income for the IMO ☹️ Have to say living in Thailand is getting more of a pain in the @$$

[crazykopite]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

I don't plan on spending my retirement in Thailand, but if I did I would simply get a 20 year 1 million baht Elite Visa instead of being hassled with annual extensions for 1.6mil (which I presume 800k would be locked) in a Thai bank account. Even if I retire at 50 the elite visa would give me until I was 70 (or 71) to remain in Thailand. I know there are quite a few grandpa superman in Pattaya, but at 70 you are pretty close to your expiration date.

 

 

The elite visa is on an individual basis if like me you are married to a non Thai to get her included costs a lot more and are you telling me you would trust the government to honour your 20 year visa  you still have to do your 90 day report even though you have paid 1 million up front.

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Small thought for a small being. If you want to engineer your marriage, why not aim for some thing greater than a government officer.

Up to you I married a poor farmers daughter.

[Stevemercer]

A previous poster noted that the rise to 800,000 Baht was largely due to severe depreciation of the Baht in the global financial crisis.

 

Now that the Baht has appreciated so much, the requirement should be reduced. A new requirement for 500,000 Baht would adequately reflect this appreciation.

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Do you think it is realistic 20 years will go by without them doubling the amount again?

I had same thought for long time, and began to set aside in Thai savings for another 800k baht. I did the savings in Thai baht, so its no dependent of currency exchange rate fluctuations – happy for that when sadly looking at my more than 20% decrease in monthly income when converted to baht – and the outcome, either interest or investing in stocks, depending of the choice one make for the portfolio, is actually Okay; the dividends gives me enough for daily butter on my breakfast toasts, and little more...????

 

However, a few years ago I realized, thanks to Thaivisa's expert UbonJoe's post, that those starting their retirement extension under the old regulations, with 200k baht, and later 400k baht, in deposit, could continue on that level – "grandfathered" I think it is called – as long as they keep the original extension of stay valid; i.e. don't miss any annual extensions for whatever reason.

 

But on the other hand, for any eventuality it's better to be on the safe side, and furthermore its always advisable to have accessible extra cash when living as expat in Thailand...☝️

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, Pravda said:

I don't plan on spending my retirement in Thailand, but if I did I would simply get a 20 year 1 million baht Elite Visa instead of being hassled with annual extensions for 1.6mil (which I presume 800k would be locked) in a Thai bank account. Even if I retire at 50 the elite visa would give me until I was 70 (or 71) to remain in Thailand. I know there are quite a few grandpa superman in Pattaya, but at 70 you are pretty close to your expiration date.

Not disputing the underlying truth in what you say, but this sounds like the dismissive thinking of a much younger person.   When I was a teenager, I couldn't fathom being 40.  My Dad was 40 and that was old.

 

40s blew by me like a Japanese bullet train and I realized......  I'm my Dad.  Holy shit!!!  ????

[BertM]

1.6MM THB in a Thai bank is not needed if you have monies in your home country you can transfer over any time. For normal emergencies, you can transfer what you need and have it here within 1 or 2 day's time. For life & death emergencies (hit by car and hospital won't admit you unless you pay them on the spot), just use the 800k in the bank and worry about your extension later if you live. You can always start the visa process over again. It's only 2,000 THB for a new 90-day O visa. Not that big of a deal...

Edited March 5, 2019 by BertM

[Pravda]

15 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Not disputing the underlying truth in what you say, but this sounds like the dismissive thinking of a much younger person.   When I was a teenager, I couldn't fathom being 40.  My Dad was 40 and that was old.

 

40s blew by me like a Japanese bullet train and I realized......  I'm my Dad.  Holy shit!!!  ????

 

I'm 45. I'm also married to a Thai. I went through a lot in life and I don't take anything for granted and that includes both the marriage and health.

 

As for the other post if I would trust the government to honor a 20 year visa. Well, yes I would because if they don't honor this simple agreement than foreigners have much bigger issues to worry about, including money in the bank, property they bought or even their personal safety. For the government to reneg on this would mean the country would already be in a state of total anarchy.

[tandor]

21 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Get married. 

..then when you run down your 400k, go for a WP...then when you can't fulfill that any longer, go live in a cave near a waterfall...that's my plan.

[tandor]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Up to you I married a poor farmers daughter.

..good to hear that..i like you.