36 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

There is a clear Commons majority against a no deal Brexit , ergo if May's plan is not agreed there will be a delay or a second referendum.

Even the likes of Boris and Rees-Mogg now realise as much , if they dont support May then Brexit wont happen.

I would say the EU have played a blinder , mind you they held all the aces , despite Farage & co pretending otherwise.

 

 

I don't think the EU played at all.

 

 

 

Mourinho style - they just parked the bus.

There is a clear Commons majority against a no deal Brexit , ergo if May's plan is not agreed there will be a delay or a second referendum.
Even the likes of Boris and Rees-Mogg now realise as much , if they dont support May then Brexit wont happen.
I would say the EU have played a blinder , mind you they held all the aces , despite Farage & co pretending otherwise.

May’s surrender agreement will be voted down. Rees-Mogg said again this weekend that he won’t support it.
Neither a delay or second referendum is necessarily the next step. IF it were to be a delay, JRM’s opinion was that “Every cloud has a silver lining.”


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2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

but for the people 20-25 km away from this border it will be a disaster.

A disaster ?

 

Yes they might lose access the free British NHS they currently enjoy  

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Thanks to the 350 million pounds a week free for the NHS.. all problems will be solved...

what do you think should happen with the money we save when we no longer pay into the EU

Thanks to the 350 million pounds a week free for the NHS.. all problems will be solved...

NHS wouldn’t need or get all of that. There will much more left to spread around the whole of UK solving problems.
How much do you think there will be?


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2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

This hard border between N - S Ireland will not affect Dublin, Cork etc, but for the people 20-25 km away from this border it will be a disaster. For S-Ireland, the break-ways of Wales with all its beef, pork will be a blessing, as imports into the EU of beef, port, sheep, poultry, fish (products) is quite difficult seen all veterinary and phytosanitaty regulations and inspections. With a hard-Brexit, FSA inspections are not of interest anymore.

The problem is hard border and the IRA kick off again. They've already fired off a couple of warning shots.

 

No one wants that.

 
Funny, I thought this was all about 'taking back control'.

Funny you should mention that, because when we have left the EU protection racket, we have control of our borders, tariffs, trade policy, trade deals, the lot, not the EU.

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

NHS wouldn’t need or get all of that. There will much more left to spread around the whole of UK solving problems.
How much do you think there will be?


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How little you know about the NHS. My wife, daughter and her husband work in the NHS. To bring it back to where it was 20 years ago (and it was underfunded then) would require at least that amount.

 

However, they would get none of it, it would be used to give tax breaks for the rich, telling the public that it's the best way to regenerate the economy. Same as Trump in the US.

4 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Funny you should mention that, because when we have left the EU protection racket, we have control of our borders, tariffs, trade policy, trade deals, the lot, not the EU.

What trade deals?

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

How little you know about the NHS. My wife, daughter and her husband work in the NHS. To bring it back to where it was 20 years ago (and it was underfunded then) would require at least that amount.

 

However, they would get none of it, it would be used to give tax breaks for the rich, telling the public that it's the best way to regenerate the economy. Same as Trump in the US.

You're entirely right, the world has changed, and not in a good way.

I'm alright, my Thai kids might be alright, but I doubt my Brit kids will be.

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

There is a clear Commons majority against a no deal Brexit , ergo if May's plan is not agreed there will be a delay or a second referendum.

Even the likes of Boris and Rees-Mogg now realise as much , if they dont support May then Brexit wont happen.

I would say the EU have played a blinder , mind you they held all the aces , despite Farage & co pretending otherwise.

I just don't understand how "if May's plan is not agreed there will be a delay or a second referendum...or Brexit wont happen". It's enshrined in an Act of Parliament. It is only possible to overturn an Act of Parliament if you write, approve and legislate differently, (aka have another Act of Parliament). Acts of Parliament can take weeks or months to progress through the houses of Parliament. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 takes effect on 29 March 2019...in 19 days, today, 18 on Monday, 17 on Tuesday etc. The United Kingdom will no longer be a member state of the European Union after 29 March 2019, despite MPs voting to have "no deal", or an extension to Article 50, if the WA does not pass on 12 March. Again, I reference:

 

"There is further confusion over what the deal in ‘no deal’ is. It isn’t a ‘no trade deal’ or ‘a no Future Relationship deal’ - we haven’t even started negotiating those yet. It is a ‘no Withdrawal Agreement deal’. 

Let’s be clear. Up until now we have been dancing to the EU’s tune. The Withdrawal Agreement is specified under EU law - Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - and went wrong from the start. Without one, all the EU treaties stop applying as of 29th March.

But trade deals are done under the global trade rules of the 164 member World Trade Organisation (WTO) that the UK helped establish." (The Telegraph 10 March 2019).

 

36 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Funny you should mention that, because when we have left the EU protection racket, we have control of our borders, tariffs, trade policy, trade deals, the lot, not the EU.

Except the Irish border. Head in the sand on that one by your fellow merry band of travellers and pretending it doesn’t need to be controlled! 

 

Just turn a blind eye one of them says! 

 

 

4 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Somehow I can see milk and beef crossing the border still with a blind eye on both sides! After all - HM Customs like a cuppa and a burger too!

 

7 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Its the game of making millions of euros from rinsed out pounds making the UK cheap to come and stay and settle for foreigners just what the Brexiteers ordered ????

You think they will come to the new province of Pakistan and bring an umbrella?

48 minutes ago, Spidey said:

What trade deals?

The ones which are all going to be freshly signed 30 March. Don't you know anything. Negotiating these things is a doddle.

A lot of brinkmanship going on here but let just stop a moment and remember the UK voted to leave the EU. There was a General Election and both major parties stood on a platform to carry out the people's wishes to leave the EU, many of those elected now seem to have chosen not recall that, which is disgraceful, whether I agreed or not I would not vote for any MP who now votes against that on principle.

Some of those MPs are going to use their vote to try and keep the UK in the EU, they are voting for the interests of themselves and the EU not the UK.

The figures would suggest that the PM's deal will be voted down and with about 2 weeks to go before the leave date of 29th March, some are suggesting extending the date by a few months but that will achieve nothing the EU says the deal is the deal and that's it! They may make concession at the last minute but its not likely as they have to get 27 others to agree to them so where does it go from here?

If it were me and the vote for the deal has been lost I would be thwarting any hopes of new legislation until after 29th March, effectively leaving the EU with no deal.

The UK will be out and then it will be up to the EU to come with deal, they need us more than we need them.

It is also worth remembering that all these people on both sides will still keep their jobs whatever the outcome until the next elections, its the ordinary working people who are more likely to be affected by the "deal or no deal".

35 minutes ago, Youlike said:

You think they will come to the new province of Pakistan and bring an umbrella?

If the brexiteers first got the Eastern Europeans out, then there is enough free living space for them. Who else will then harvest the fruits and vegetables, clean the hotel rooms, look after the old and the sick. In the end, Brexit promotes the Islamization of the UK.

That is what happens if you leave the gestapo offices in Brussels.

Warining for all other countries. You just cant just back off.

I hope for UK they will do super fine in future without gestapo

"jestPic.com

At the start, Brexit was sold having many benefits, but now the best the government can say is that we will survive it. #stopbrexitsavebritain # cartoon …"

What trade deals?

The ones we will be free to make ourselves, after we Leave.


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Control how WE want to control it.


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How little you know about the NHS. My wife, daughter and her husband work in the NHS. To bring it back to where it was 20 years ago (and it was underfunded then) would require at least that amount.
 
However, they would get none of it, it would be used to give tax breaks for the rich, telling the public that it's the best way to regenerate the economy. Same as Trump in the US.

The NHS already receives far too much money.
Billion 125 in 2017/18 and May has promised an extra 20 Billion pa by 2024.

How did you decide to give our EU savings to the rich? The chancellor may have different ideas about that.


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2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The ones we will be free to make ourselves, after we Leave.


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The UK, ATM has several hundred trade deals. Each one has to be separately re-negotiated. Conservative estimates are that it could take up to 10 years to complete the task. Also, as we are going cap in hand, we will be given less preferential terms. Ask D. Trump what kind of deal he has lined up for us. He will screw us into the ground.

 

Meanwhile we trade under WTO rules. Less preferential than any trade deals that we currently operate under. Very few countries, in the world, operate solely under WTO rules, a situation usually reserved for countries with no economy to speak of, such as Eritrea.

 

It's for this reason, more than any other (and there are others) that a hard Brexit would be the death knell of the British economy.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The NHS already receives far too much money.
Billion 125 in 2017/18 and May has promised an extra 20 Billion pa by 2024.

How did you decide to give our EU savings to the rich? The chancellor may have different ideas about that.


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Well, if you knew the NHS intimately, you would know that it's nowhere near enough money.

 

The chancellor is a Tory. They have enacted this policy before and with the Bullingdon Club at the helm, they will enact this policy again.

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Control how WE want to control it.


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Control what? You can’t even manage the quote function properly...

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The ones we will be free to make ourselves, after we Leave.


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Oh bless...

 

You’ll be lucky to replicate 50% of the trade access you have now. 

 
It's for this reason, more than any other (and there are others) that a hard Brexit would be the death knell of the British economy.
 
 

Some people don’t believe you.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1098227/no-deal-brexit-latest-update-theresa-may-withdrawal-agreement-vote-mp-economist-free-trade
No deal Brexit to give UK £140billion BOOM say economists - ignore 'project fear HYSTERIA'

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The NHS already receives far too much money.
Billion 125 in 2017/18 and May has promised an extra 20 Billion pa by 2024.

How did you decide to give our EU savings to the rich? The chancellor may have different ideas about that.


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The British public disagree with you.

 

https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2018/06/public-overwhelming-support-rise-health-and-social-care-spend1

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Well, if you knew the NHS intimately, you would know that it's nowhere near enough money.

 

The chancellor is a Tory. They have enacted this policy before and with the Bullingdon Club at the helm, they will enact this policy again.

"Well, if you knew the NHS intimately, you would know that it's nowhere near enough money."

 

I'm pretty sure that's because a govt. (Blair's? or was it Thatcher's?) decided the NHS required MANY more layers of admin...... ☹️

 

Agree with the second para., but as a result of the brexit referendum I don't think they'll be brave enough to try this for a while.

On 3/10/2019 at 9:54 AM, whatsupdoc said:

Unbelievable! The EU are not playing a game. They were clear and consistent from the beginning. It is the UK who cannot make up its mind and keeps chasing unicorns.

The EU respected the referendum and the red lines of May. Just about he only possible outcome of this was the deal May and the EU agreed upon. But then the UK parliament rejects it. The UK should make decisions or leave without a deal.

That is one view.  The other view is that the EU have discovered the Achiles Tendon of the UK which is the Northern/Southern Ireland Border issue.  UK has made creditable proposals on how to manage the Border Crossing and lets face it modern technology could easily overcome this, but the EU have said no.  Why?  Because they are very angry that the UK has the temerity to leave and to stop the massive payments to this "Jobs for the Boys" autocracy.  They also want to make an example of the UK to frighten off the other Members from even thinking of leaving the EU.  I have my doubts as to how long the EU will remain a creditable Union of the 27 Countries who are currently Members, some of whom have already expressed thoughts of leaving.

3 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

That is one view.  The other view is that the EU have discovered the Achiles Tendon of the UK which is the Northern/Southern Ireland Border issue.  UK has made creditable proposals on how to manage the Border Crossing and lets face it modern technology could easily overcome this, but the EU have said no.  Why?  Because they are very angry that the UK has the temerity to leave and to stop the massive payments to this "Jobs for the Boys" autocracy.  They also want to make an example of the UK to frighten off the other Members from even thinking of leaving the EU.  I have my doubts as to how long the EU will remain a creditable Union of the 27 Countries who are currently Members, some of whom have already expressed thoughts of leaving.

" modern technology could easily overcome this" 

well, what precisely are these miracle technologies and where are they actually effectively used …?  

as there is no concrete answer , we have to assume that nobody knows yet and a lot remains to be invented