12 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

what was the name of that famous ch 7 lakorn male star who had it about 3 years back? In BKH in intensive care for three months, cost millions which the TV company paid. For some reason they took his leg off, but he died anyway.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Big-hearted-actor-Por-dies-after-long-struggle-in--30277188.html

 

Quote

AFTER a months-long, heartbreaking battle against a severe and rare form of dengue haemorrhagic fever, popular TV actor Tridsadee “Por” Sahawong died yesterday.

I guess they didn't have the "protocol".

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by DrTuner

That's him very popular with the ladies, just shows how dangerous it can be

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by Orton Rd

20 minutes ago, bmore99 said:

You can't use DEET every day for long periods of time, it's toxic to the central nervous system. Only sporadic use is ok. 

Mixed reviews in the scientific community on that statement, having seen anything concrete to substantiate it. I've used deet sensibly for years with no ill effects. Became a believer when I contacted dengue in the west indies years ago ( there they called it breakbone fever). There is no way I would take a chance and possibly get the hemorrhagic variety that they have here in ever increasing numbers. IMO there is no real effective repellent other than deet though there are more claims daily. To each their own.   

11 hours ago, mikebell said:

Only when it's crisis time do Thais react.  My moobaan holds regular clean-up drills to eliminate standing water; puts down insecticide frequently; has published a pamphlet in Thai/English to educate owners.

Where is this (which province), if I might be so bold as to ask?

I'm only asking because we live in Nakhon Ratchasima, one one the provinces mentioned, and our moobaan / village hasn't done squat (yet) about this - which doesn't surprise me as our big chief is only in it for the money, not the good of the people. 

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by djayz

1 hour ago, KarlS said:

Who said anything about treating the virus infection? It most certainly it was not me so why did you address your response to me? 

 

if you did not write post #49 apologies in advance.      

 

your post #29 about appaling ignorance to the person that wrote there is no treatment for dengue

13 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

if you did not write post #49 apologies in advance.      

 

your post #29 about appaling ignorance to the person that wrote there is no treatment for dengue

I did write #49 and you should try reading the thread again - It was claimed there is NO treatment for dengue which is wrong

We all use neem as a mozzie deterrent. It smells a little but definitely keeps the bugs away. Also very good for controlling ants.

18 minutes ago, KarlS said:

34 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

if you did not write post #49 apologies in advance.      

 

your post #29 about appaling ignorance to the person that wrote there is no treatment for dengue

I did write #49 and you should try reading the thread again - It was claimed there is NO treatment for dengue which is wrong

 

treatment is NON SPECIFIC, supportive care. again bleeding issues are secondary and are treated as such.

 

analogy;  bacterial pneumonia has a specific treatment being antibiotics. it has a treatment of the primary cause.  some cases of bacterial pneumonia develop complications which are also addressed.

 

saying hemorrhagic dengue has a specific treatment is still not treating the dengue just the complication.

 

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

treatment is NON SPECIFIC, supportive care. again bleeding issues are secondary and are treated as such.

 

analogy;  bacterial pneumonia has a specific treatment being antibiotics. it has a treatment of the primary cause.  some cases of bacterial pneumonia develop complications which are also addressed

 

saying hemorrhagic dengue has a specific treatment protocol is still not treating the dengue just the complication.

 

 

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by atyclb

6 hours ago, car720 said:

I had it years ago in Indonesia.  The closest thing to death that I have experienced.  Thank God.

I met a guy who had it and said the same thing. His hospital bill was eye watering

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

treatment is NON SPECIFIC, supportive care. again bleeding issues are secondary and are treated as such.

 

analogy;  bacterial pneumonia has a specific treatment being antibiotics. it has a treatment of the primary cause.  some cases of bacterial pneumonia develop complications which are also addressed.

 

saying hemorrhagic dengue has a specific treatment is still not treating the dengue just the complication.

 

Please STOP misrepresenting what I have written  FYI The treatment of haemorrhagic dengue/dengue shock syndrome is both complex and specific. 

2 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Please STOP misrepresenting what I have written  FYI The treatment of haemorrhagic dengue/dengue shock syndrome is both complex and specific. 

 

 

may i ask where you completed your id fellowship?

I had it once while in Chiang Mai. Couldnt eat, could barely sleep. Even when i had a little water, i would throw up. Since then i tremendously enjoy murdering as many mosquitos as possible.

May they roast in hell.

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

 

may i ask where you completed your id fellowship?

I do not have one but I do have a FRACEM and a FCICM - Does that answer your question? FYI I have published 17 case studies relating to dengue shock syndrome. What is your publication count on this topic? 

9 hours ago, KarlS said:

I do not have one but I do have a FRACEM and a FCICM - Does that answer your question? FYI I have published 17 case studies relating to dengue shock syndrome. What is your publication count on this topic? 

Karl, is taking papaya leaf juice a myth to assist faster recovery from dengue not backed by anything ?

3 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

Karl, is taking papaya leaf juice a myth to assist faster recovery from dengue not backed by anything ?

It is an alternative "medicine" which some claim offers a "cure"  AFAIK this claim has never been subject to large scale double-blind clinical trial(s) and there is, therefore, no robust scientific evidence which supports its use -  Dengue, in most cases, is a self-limiting disease, which can be managed by remaining well hydrated and using paracetamol as an antipyretic and analgesic. 

Haemorrhagic dengue and dengue shock syndrome are very serious life-threatening conditions which must be managed by skilled, knowledgable physicians preferably within an intensive care unit. IMO papaya has nothing to offer in the treatment of these serious cases. 

14 minutes ago, KarlS said:

It is an alternative "medicine" which some claim offers a "cure"  AFAIK this claim has never been subject to large scale double-blind clinical trial(s) and there is, therefore, no robust scientific evidence which supports its use -  Dengue, in most cases, is a self-limiting disease, which can be managed by remaining well hydrated and using paracetamol as an antipyretic and analgesic. 

Haemorrhagic dengue and dengue shock syndrome are very serious life-threatening conditions which must be managed by skilled, knowledgable physicians preferably within an intensive care unit. IMO papaya has nothing to offer in the treatment of these serious cases. 

 

There are several medium scale trials.  The use of papaya leaf has been demonstrated to increase thrombocyte count.  A low platelet count being associated with increased risk of hemorrhage, it is fair to assume that it could have something to offer in the prevention of severe dengue rather than treatment should it develop.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23662145/

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

There are several medium scale trials.  The use of papaya leaf has been demonstrated to increase thrombocyte count.  A low platelet count being associated with increased risk of hemorrhage, it is fair to assume that it could have something to offer in the prevention of severe dengue rather than treatment should it develop.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23662145/

Only 114 people(a SMALL sample size) were given the juice and the Herbal Medicine Research Center, Kuala Lumpur, is not recognised as being a renowned center for groundbreaking medical research.

 

12 hours ago, djayz said:

Where is this (which province), if I might be so bold as to ask?

I'm only asking because we live in Nakhon Ratchasima, one one the provinces mentioned, and our moobaan / village hasn't done squat (yet) about this - which doesn't surprise me as our big chief is only in it for the money, not the good of the people. 

Bang Saray, Chonburi.  We are a Juristic Entity so this initiative comes from the owners.  The teseban has cooperated and sent in teams to fog & provided insecticide which we have distributed.

30 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Only 114 people(a SMALL sample size) were given the juice and the Herbal Medicine Research Center, Kuala Lumpur, is not recognised as being a renowned center for groundbreaking medical research.

 

 

What?   A Phase I trial is from 1-50 people and also called a small scale study, a Phase II trial is from 10's to sometimes over 100 people and also called a medium scale study and a Phase III trial is from 100 to 1000's and also called a large scale study.  This study was medium scale.

 

And why the need to misrepresent the trial by pretending that the Herbal Medicine Unit are not reputable when it was conducted at the Department of Internal Medicine of the Hospital Tengku Ampuan Rahimah and not only conducted by the Bioassay Unit or the Herbal Medicine Research Center, but also by the Department of Internal Medicine, Tengku Ampuan Rahimah Hospital, the Epidemiology and Biostatistics Unit, Institute for Medical Research, and the Virology Unit, Infectious Disease Research Center, Institute for Medical Research, all reputable research bodies.

 

Your claim that the KL Herbal Medicine Research Center is not renowned for groundbreaking research was just something you imagined, their WHO research awards being evidence to the contrary.

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What?   A Phase I trial is from 1-50 people and also called a small scale study, a Phase II trial is from 10's to sometimes over 100 people and also called a medium scale study and a Phase III trial is from 100 to 1000's and also called a large scale study.  This study was medium scale.

 

And why the need to misrepresent the trial by pretending that the Herbal Medicine Unit are not reputable when it was conducted at the Department of Internal Medicine of the Hospital Tengku Ampuan Rahimah and not only conducted by the Bioassay Unit or the Herbal Medicine Research Center, but also by the Department of Internal Medicine, Tengku Ampuan Rahimah Hospital, the Epidemiology and Biostatistics Unit, Institute for Medical Research, and the Virology Unit, Infectious Disease Research Center, Institute for Medical Research, all reputable research bodies.

 

Your claim that the KL Herbal Medicine Research Center is not renowned for groundbreaking research was just something you imagined, their WHO research awards being evidence to the contrary.

Tell us where this "study" has been replicated and by who.

I also suggest you check the standing of this "research" Institute against published data - you will find it fails to make it into the top 50 and that is fact not "imagination"

Worrying. One guy I used to work with had it in Bangkok and it took him about 6 months to fully recover. He looked awful when he came back to work after being in hospital. 

Are you sure he had Dengue? I had Dengue fever years ago - and while it is quite unpleasant the worst is over after a week or so. Latest after 2 weeks you are back to normal. I did not even stay at the hospital.
Lot’s of sleep and electrolyte liquid to fight dehydration usually does the trick.

Symptoms apart from high fever when you suffer from Dengue hemorrhagic fever can best be described by feeling like being 100 years old and having been run over by a bus. Every bone in the body hurts - but like I said after a week the worst was over.




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Which areas suffer the most ? I would not like to live close to a dengue area. 

You can get it anywhere. Was bitten where I lived in the city center when I got it.

1 hour ago, KarlS said:

It is an alternative "medicine" which some claim offers a "cure"  AFAIK this claim has never been subject to large scale double-blind clinical trial(s) and there is, therefore, no robust scientific evidence which supports its use -  Dengue, in most cases, is a self-limiting disease, which can be managed by remaining well hydrated and using paracetamol as an antipyretic and analgesic. 

Haemorrhagic dengue and dengue shock syndrome are very serious life-threatening conditions which must be managed by skilled, knowledgable physicians preferably within an intensive care unit. IMO papaya has nothing to offer in the treatment of these serious cases. 

Thanks for that info Karl.

Can dengue weaken kidneys after it passes ? I kind of get sore kidneys last year or so..maybe its just motorbike shocks to my lower back, but I notice it when I have excess salt (Thai soup) /excess potassium ( a lot of bananas after exercise) / more than 3 beers..that kind of deal.

 

Hope it has not weakened my organs as a long-term side-effect.

1 minute ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Are you sure he had Dengue? I had Dengue fever years ago - and while it is quite unpleasant the worst is over after a week or so. Latest after 2 weeks you are back to normal. I did not even stay at the hospital.
Lot’s of sleep and electrolyte liquid to fight dehydration usually does the trick.

Symptoms apart from high fever when you suffer from Dengue hemorrhagic fever can best be described by feeling like being 100 years old and having been run over by a bus. Every bone in the body hurts - but like I said after a week the worst was over.




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Dengue is also known as "break-bone fever" and a pyrexia is not uniquely associated with haemorragic dengue. 

 

If you recovered from a confirmed case of dengue within a week or so you were lucky many do not. Post viral fatigue is commonly experienced by many sufferers. 

1 minute ago, freedomnow said:

Thanks for that info Karl.

Can dengue weaken kidneys after it passes ? I kind of get sore kidneys last year or so..maybe its just motorbike shocks to my lower back, but I notice it when I have excess salt (Thai soup) /excess potassium ( a lot of bananas after exercise) / more than 3 beers..that kind of deal.

 

Hope it has not weakened my organs as a long-term side-effect.

It is highly unlikely that your kidneys were affected unless you suffered dengue shock syndrome. 

If you are concerned about your kidneys you should consult a nephrologist - and request a Renal Function test (a blood test)

2 hours ago, KarlS said:

Tell us where this "study" has been replicated and by who.

I also suggest you check the standing of this "research" Institute against published data - you will find it fails to make it into the top 50 and that is fact not "imagination"

 

There has been extensive animal testing done since that study, the last replication of which was published in February this year, the one before that was in December last year. 

 

Believe me when I say, you are the only one pretending that there can't be anything in this, and the only reason you are doing that is because you saw the word herbal within the name of one of the institutes involved, right?  Well, they are a research body that was established to protect the public from quackery, they test herbal treatments rather than promote them. 

 

And so what if they are not in the top 50 considering their age and what exactly does that do to change anything in your mind?  Anyway, two of the institutes who authored that study feature in Malaysia's top research institute list, one ranked 9th for all research and 3rd for medical research.  Did you think to do any research before shooting your mouth off once again?

14 hours ago, KarlS said:

14 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

may i ask where you completed your id fellowship?

I do not have one but I do have a FRACEM and a FCICM - Does that answer your question? FYI I have published 17 case studies relating to dengue shock syndrome. What is your publication count on this topic? 

 

again in reviewing lots of literature from multiple respected sources including; mayo clinic, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed, emedicine medscape, etc etc

"There is no specific pharmacologic treatment for dengue infection"       treatment is supportive and can include treating complications if they occur.

 

 

WHO guidelines recommend obtaining a baseline hematocrit measurement. Thrombocytopenia and hemoconcentration are consistent findings in dengue infection. [10] When the plasma leakage phase starts to resolve, the hematocrit level begins to fall, making identification of significant occult hemorrhage difficult. Administer blood transfusion if significant hemorrhage ensues (GI bleeding may be profound). Administer fresh frozen plasma or platelets if DIC is extensive and the patient is hemodynamically unstable. Prophylactic platelet transfusions in a stable thrombocytopenic patient are not needed.

There is no specific pharmacologic treatment for dengue infection. Initiate early supportive care by administering isotonic NS solution intravenously, as clinically indicated, to maintain adequate blood pressure and adequate urine output of 0.5-1 mL/kg/hour. The plasma leakage period is short (24-48 hours), and intravenous fluids may be reduced based on clinical response.

Administer acetaminophen for fever control (not salicylates or ibuprofen, which can further hinder platelet function and increase bleeding complications). Glucocorticoids are not indicated.

Corticosteroids are not helpful.

No antiviral therapy is available.

Patients with suspected dengue infection who are maintaining adequate hydration orally and have no warning signs/symptoms may be treated on an outpatient basis with appropriate anticipatory guidance and outpatient follow-up within 24 hours for reassessment.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/781961-overview#a3

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

  Did you think to do any research before shooting your mouth off once again?

 

Welcome to my ignore list 

I think the probability of dying from from frustration while trying to discuss dengue with some one suffering from what I'd diagnose as PMS symptoms is higher than actually managing to develop hemorragic fever and croaking from it.

Edited March 15, 20197 yr by DrTuner