Trump slams handling of Brexit by UK's May

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Two years is too short. You have a 5 year parliamentary term in the UK, don't you? Flipping and flopping between one party and another is normal democracy.

 

If, after returning to the EU, things became worse rather than better over a period of several years, then at the next elections in the UK, a particular party could campaign on the grounds that they would hold another referendum. If the majority of the public wanted another referendum, then presumably that party would get in power and hold another referendum. That's democracy.

 

However, it would be very foolish to have another referendum, say 5 or 10 years down the track, without sorting out the problems that are causing so much confusion and indecision at present, with regard to the Irish border. I'm rather puzzled that Irish border problem was not addressed at the time of the first referendum.

Ewe have a very useful bunch of rebates and opt outs. Once we leave they will be lost for good.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It wasn't addressed as it was an EU made up factor to keep the UK locked to the EU or even try and split the UK apart.

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1019/1005373-backstop-tony-connelly/

 

"The backstop was born on 8 November 2017."

 

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/6007741469001/Brexit-Barnier-said-backstop-was-unimplementable-says-IDS

 

So how would you deal with enforcing the diffentent tariffs, none tariff Barriers and stop free movement of people?

[usviphotography]

10 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

 

 

 

Why would it be unfair? The people who voted the first time for Brexit would have the opportunity to confirm their commitment. However, if some of those who voted for Brexit the first time, have now changed their mind, because of all the implications they were not aware of at the time of the first vote, then the UK will remain in the EU.

 

It seems to me to be very fair to allow people to reconsider a decision that they later might realize was a bad decision.

You will vote, and vote, and vote gain until we get the result the Elites want! And the Brits have the audacity to lecture the rest on the world on "Democracy". 

[Grouse]

Just now, usviphotography said:

You will vote, and vote, and vote gain until we get the result the Elites want! And the Brits have the audacity to lecture the rest on the world on "Democracy". 

What exactly is none democratic?

 

Do you see the irony in May refusing another people's vote but pushing for THIRD meaningful vote on her terrible plan?

[andytime]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Financially successful? If he would have invested the money he started with he would have had much more than he now claims he has. And that claim is very, very likely highly exaggerated.

 

New NAFTA better for the US? Many of the experts disagree with you, what is your claim based on?

Financially successful? If he would have invested the money he started with he would have had much more than he now claims he has. And that claim is very, very likely highly exaggerated.

 

New NAFTA better for the US? Many of the experts disagree with you, what is your claim based on?

I guess you're so successful.. managing a scout group, business, city, country or have a building named after you? My guess no nor most of us here...it is called tall poppy syndrome...The world is bereft of quality leaders.. look at the Merkel disaster in Europe or May's incompetency or the Aussie circus.  Trump like all of us makes some stupid comments and may be a serial womanizer.. at least he wasn't on Lolita Express abusing young kids as a mate of Epstein nor deleting 33000 state emails and donating money to the deputy head of the FBI wife's election campaign nor meeting Loretta Lynch to discuss golf and grandkids .  Many a person who has inherited money doesn't have it today.  He knows how to cut deals that you or I don't because he is one of the very best at it.  Whilst the banks may have lost some money on NY.. it is vastly different today to what it would have been without Trump's vision   Likely a master of bankruptcy law (change the law?).. How would you play China....?? sell out like the Clintons and watch the middle class of the western world get gutted whilst we deal with countries that don't have a level playing field.. steal IP... Globalisation benefitted a few rich company owners and some shareholders.  Trump inherited a broken dysfunctional gutted America...with much of the Western world in a similar state.  To say he doesn't know how to cut a deal in business is totally crazy.  His style may offend you (and me) but that is a different matter.

Edited March 15, 2019 by andytime

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Tommy Robinson with some of his thugs and half a dozen baseball bats ?

Like all bullies, he's a cowardly straw man. Say boo and he'll  run away.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Well the Brexit argument was clearly based on lies ( or at the very least hugely optimistic statements)

It is now established as a fact that the EU has played hardball and stuck to its guns , it didn't roll over as Farage said it would , no amount of spin can disguise that.

The red lines were May's

 

What would you have preferred the EU to have done differently?

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Well the Brexit argument was clearly based on lies ( or at the very least hugely optimistic statements)

It is now established as a fact that the EU has played hardball and stuck to its guns , it didn't roll over as Farage said it would , no amount of spin can disguise that.

I guess you have a short memory.  Read Below. Either way both sides lied. it is what politicians seem to do. More and more by the currents state of affairs. One thing I don't do, is try to justify that lies changed peoples opinions. Let me mention it again clearly. I wanted to leave the EU years and years before the referendum. As did everyone else I know.

 

Trying to use lies as a justification that the referendum result is unjustified is not only morally wrong but very weak as an argument.  It is almost as bad as saying you didn't know what you voted for a typical mantra shouted by the remaniac camp.

 

 

"European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted 'Leave'. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a 'Remain' lie.

 

David Cameron implied in a speech about the "serried rows of white headstones" that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.

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George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his 'punishment budget'.

 

Despite Anna Soubry's claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is "quietly optimistic" about Brexit. Lie number four.

 

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

 

"A dangerous fantasy" is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage's claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I'm looking forward to Nick Clegg's next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

 

We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.

 

David Cameron said he wouldn't resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.

 

The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are 'Remain' campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying."

 

Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10.

 

This is 10 of many lies spouted by the 'Remain' campaign during the EU referendum. It is about time us Brexiteers challenged this ridiculous narrative of leave lies and remain truths. We voted 'Leave' for control over the laws of this country, and the patronising suggestion we are gullible idiots is quite frankly ridiculous. Remain campaigners should look in the mirror if they want to find a liar. The sooner we Get Britain Out of the EU, the better.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/leave-lies-remainers-need_b_12191462.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJvPDrTz-M7lXcUmVptOlvOoMugE1X6MWGsPKoa1QmzMuMc4z69yIoPcDerUWIoZ4F30cwWvkkrSxQOlhd3XAJSiJ8i1j7Ok0zQzj_mrRF_njwuFQtfoBqVa24j9WqMDgA9egisd7wvvdSfvUkyVd04G5-JjD06of6gi2BxLWdV_

 

 

[Becker]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

My point is that remainers typically and regularly feel the need to air their views with language that insults those with the opposite opinion. 

In other words your post was pointless then as a reply to what I wrote. OK, got it.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

May has constantly been called useless but nobody else has actually come up with a firm plan.

Fantasies are all very well but it became apparent very early on that our demands ( by leave negotiators Davis and Fox ) were not going to be met.

In short Farage said that the UK held the aces and the EU would soon fold . He was well wide of the mark , we held very little and the EU played hardball from the start.

In what posaible way could Batten have got a better deal , threaten to send in Tommy Robinson with some of his thugs and half a dozen baseball bats ?

Who else was in a position to come up with a plan? Davis was undermined from the outset. May changed any aces for jokers, on the draw. What really happened during negotiations and how they were really done is not known except to a very few and they are not talking.

 

Any serious and impartial negotiator could have done a better job. The UK needed at least a neutral chief in charge. May is a remainer and she won her coveted job, with the help of several other remainers in the Tory party. Her poor control of these so-called negotiations was so disastrous that it must have been due to either sheer incompetence or, worse, collusion. She managed to foul up completely.

 

Job well done Theresa! This deal is not May's, it is the EU's and they love it. 

 

Bringing in the Tommy Robinson line just makes your post even less relevant.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Becker said:

In other words your post was pointless then as a reply to what I wrote. OK, got it.

You asked me what my point was. And yes, you got it.

[Becker]

1 hour ago, andytime said:

Trump inherited a broken dysfunctional gutted America...with much of the Western world in a similar state.  

No, he did not. To claim such a thing is to admit that you have lost all sense of reality. Good luck with the recovery though.

[andytime]

22 minutes ago, Becker said:

No, he did not. To claim such a thing is to admit that you have lost all sense of reality. Good luck with the recovery though.

I guess record debt, record homelessness, US foreign policy "success" globally, education standards in the toilet, worthless expensive college degrees, record student debt, a gutted Midwest, a gig economy, a collapsed manufacturing base, wealth disparity at record highs, a totally 'ducked' process selecting a conservative judge, emergence of liberal socialist utopia teachings and agenda and fruitloops like AOC, creation of sanctuary cities where illegal aliens can commit crimes and hang out all, an education bribery scandal, Boeing and GE's latest success stories, subsidization of Tesla and Solar City with billions in state money and racial harmony all point to the success that Barack, Bush and Clinton delivered. Sadly the US (and much/most of the West) lost their mojo long ago gutted by liberals (and bureaucrats) who sold out their country and think you get something for free and someone else doesn't pay for it and created 50 different genders and spend money studying those.  Sadly the situation above is not unique to America but much of the West.  Now pull your head out of the sand bucket and take a deep breath.

Edited March 15, 2019 by andytime

[Krataiboy]

Maybe Mother Theresa should offer the Don some advice on the Mexican wall. Then he would know what NOT to do.

 

 

[Becker]

10 minutes ago, andytime said:

I guess record debt, record homelessness, US foreign policy "success" globally, education standards in the toilet, worthless expensive college degrees, record student debt, a gutted Midwest, a gig economy, a collapsed manufacturing base, wealth disparity at record highs, a totally 'ducked' process selecting a conservative judge, emergence of liberal socialist utopia teachings and agenda and fruitloops like AOC, creation of sanctuary cities where illegal aliens can commit crimes and hang out all, an education bribery scandal, Boeing and GE's latest success stories, subsidization of Tesla and Solar City with billions in state money and racial harmony all point to the success that Barack, Bush and Clinton delivered. Sadly the US (and much/most of the West) lost their mojo long ago gutted by liberals (and bureaucrats) who sold out their country and think you get something for free and someone else doesn't pay for it and created 50 different genders and spend money studying those.  Sadly the situation above is not unique to America but much of the West.  Now pull your head out of the sand bucket and take a deep breath.

As I said, good luck to you.

[Dumbastheycome]

4 hours ago, andytime said:

Trump may make some silly comments but he is more cunning than a sh#thouse rat and far smarter than most credit him for.  He was the man that transformed NY from the dump it was becoming in the 70s.  Whilst a master of bankruptcy law (same as many other successful guys) I imagine he is more successful financially as a businessman than most of us here...renegotiating the mistake that NAFTA was on considerably more favourable terms for America in first 2 years almost single handledly on your own likely means he has considerably better skills than you or I.  Considering one country buys more than it sells with the EU May has handled things disastrously.

I  can only appreciate your perspective as that which is yours.

The  fact is that his  financial status, inconclusively, is not based on his personal attributes  but rather on those he employs. That at  various  times  he has failed to pay those who has employed is not evidence of either financial acumen or cunning. He is  just a  "rat".

The NAFTA dispute was/is not a singular win  for the US despite  Trump proclamations, is still ongoing in detail, and certainly  not a "single  handed" achievement  beyond fronting a  stand-off for an outdated economic pact.

The  Brexit disaster is not due to May in reality. That disaster is the product of people akin to Trump ideals and if truth be known seriously surreptitiously influenced by factors also akin to offshore interests.

The real culprit in the mayhem of international instability is the  induced naivety Corporatism and  Globalization has wrought due to the  perception it  would enhance all while maintaining positions of economic advantage. While that may have been of temporary benefit to the powerful it is  now inevitably  coming to pass and impacting the world as it loses such advantage.

Trump may be at the pinnacle of his fame in that devolving scenario but he is quite likely to gain further fame in his infamy as a symbol of the politico/philosophical scam.

 

 

[elmrfudd]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Back when Russian’s weren’t rigging elections for you.

Have any real evidence or is this just an opinion you can't back up? 

[Becker]

17 minutes ago, elmrfudd said:

Have any real evidence or is this just an opinion you can't back up? 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/16/us/elections/russian-interference-statements-comments.html

 

There you go and a simple "thank you' will suffice.

[Bluespunk]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It wasn't addressed as it was an EU made up factor to keep the UK locked to the EU or even try and split the UK apart.

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1019/1005373-backstop-tony-connelly/

 

"The backstop was born on 8 November 2017."

 

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/6007741469001/Brexit-Barnier-said-backstop-was-unimplementable-says-IDS

 

The Irish government realised after the brexit vote that the UK leaving the EU would endanger the Good Friday Agreement. 

 

They contacted the British govt immediately after the vote and tried to get an arrangement, in the absence of any binding agreement/treaty between the countries,  set up that would allow complications to be resolved on an ad-hoc basis as they occurred.

 

The British govt did nothing to respond to this initiative.

 

Hence the current backstop situation.

 

Like the entire debacle that brexit has become, the tories have only themselves to blame.

 

 

[salavan]

17 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

 

 

 

Why would it be unfair? The people who voted the first time for Brexit would have the opportunity to confirm their commitment. However, if some of those who voted for Brexit the first time, have now changed their mind, because of all the implications they were not aware of at the time of the first vote, then the UK will remain in the EU.

 

It seems to me to be very fair to allow people to reconsider a decision that they later might realize was a bad decision.

It would be unfair to trump if they remained because he want to destroy Europe so the USA can remain top dog 

[Thairealist]

20 hours ago, simple1 said:

Huge mistake by Cameron when establishing the 'rules'. it was a referendum which was full of misinformation. Sound familiar?

 

 

Very true, those who opposed the U.K from gaining independence,sent out a vast amount of misinformation. Example, did not Nick Clegg denie very forcible, that the E.U intended to,create an Army.

[Thairealist]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

With your Irish hat on, what do you think about opening the Bloody Sunday hearings right now?

 

Easy for those who fight behind a key board.

[Monomial]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

No, it is not clear what the people want.

You are correct it is not clear what the people want. The only thing the vote made very clear is what the people DON'T want, and that is more of the status quo. If the politicians don't find someway to fundamentally and dramatically alter the relationship London has with Brussels, you are going to see more and more disenchantment within the population and more animosity between the classes.

 

If you truly believe remaining in the EU is the best path forward, then listen to the other side and figure out how to address the genuine grievances the Brexiters have, rather than snarling at them and calling them stupid.  The EU model clearly isn't working for some people. Brussels needs to act on that before the whole experiment starts to collapse, and the UK needs to push that agenda strongly and with a united front.

 

The people want something substantially different than what they have. If you don't give them something radically different, then they are just going to keep rebelling.  That is obvious.  "Let them eat cake" doesn't work.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Thairealist said:

 

 

Very true, those who opposed the U.K from gaining independence,sent out a vast amount of misinformation. Example, did not Nick Clegg denie very forcible, that the E.U intended to,create an Army.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/brexiters-european-army-myths-franco-german

[candide]

6 hours ago, Thairealist said:

 

 

Very true, those who opposed the U.K from gaining independence,sent out a vast amount of misinformation. Example, did not Nick Clegg denie very forcible, that the E.U intended to,create an Army.

No misinformation there. There is no EU project of creating a European army. Only a wish expressed by Macron and to some extent by Merkel. So the misinformation was on the Brexiters' side.

[candide]

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/brexiters-european-army-myths-franco-german

The article confirms what I wrote before.

[yogi100]

On 3/15/2019 at 10:23 AM, elmrfudd said:

Have any real evidence or is this just an opinion you can't back up? 

In the weeks running up to the referendum in the UK myself and several friends were offered sums of money by a Russian sounding fellow if we voted to remain in the EU. 

 

The contact was made over the phone and the caller withheld his number.

 

We never discovered if the offer would be honoured because none of us acted upon it.

Edited March 16, 2019 by yogi100