The Thai Immigration Detention Process.

[edwardandtubs]

4 hours ago, Tayaout said:

The airline you came with is responsible to send you back where you came from. They only gave me a bill for the next flight so I'm not sure they let you do it yourself. They do let you keep your phone.

 

Still seems a bit unclear whether the airline would be able to take you back to the stopover city. Do Thai immigration even care? 

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:09 PM, onera1961 said:

The larger question is why one wants to be a perpetual tourist in Thailand?

I don't, but I plan to visit Thailand as frequently, and for as long as possible, and as there are no official rules in regards to frequency and length of time for tourists to be in Thailand, I thought I would ask about the process of detention, because it's up to the immigration officer you get on the day.

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:39 PM, scorecard said:

 

OK, but let's keep in mind that the passport office (immigration officer) you see on arrival can and will deny entry even though you have received some type of entry approval in advance, and this scenario exists in many countries.

 

My guess is that many folks see this scenario as:

 

• Should not be allowed, the passport officer should not have the authority to deny entry.
• There is a lack of coordination across the various arms of immigration, which should be fixed.
• and more.

What seems to be missing / not understood is the possibility that the visa or whatever was approved in the home country etc., but by the time the person arrives at an entry airport other information / details are now available which on consideration means the person cannot enter.

 

This 'flexibility' will very likely never change for a simple reason; the immigration departments / officers of every country have a strong responsibility to keep folks who fall within certain parameters out of the country, therefore all countries will keep that flexibility open until the person has been stamped in.

 

I know that my home country is very very serious on this matter and they often refuse to accept visas etc., which have been issued prior to actual arrival. 

 

Will Thai Immigration ever have a rule that visas issued in advance must be accepted without question on actual arrival? The answer is clearly NO.  

 

Yes, it's crazy that a thai immigration official in a consulate issue you with a visa, then another immigration officer at a boarder over rules the issue of the visa and denies entry. 

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:42 PM, ThaiBunny said:

But you haven't received entry approval.  All a visa does is give you permission to travel to a port of entry and apply for entry.  If and only if approval is given then the conditions on the visa kick in. That's true of every country that issues visas

I disagree.  That's not quite correct.

 

Someone can travel to Thailand without a visa, (exemption stamp on arrival )but can be denied entry.  No problem with that.  However, when you have applied for a visa, and been granted one, it's not about the travel, which for Thailand, you can do anyway, it's about the entry.

 

Many western countries issue visas, and when the recipient is issued the visa, the can travel and gain entry.  Their visa does not get overturned at the boarder, possibly by an officer of junior rank to the consulate or embassy staff that issued the visa. 

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/16/2019 at 4:28 PM, PoorSucker said:

1-2, Airline that brought you are responsible. 

3. No ATM before immigration. 

4-5. You don't pass immigration. 

6. Entry denied. 

7. Right away, but even harder now with the denied stamp. 

8. No. 

9. Detention until you can leave,could be longer than one day. 

10. No. 

11. Your possessions are not confiscated. 

12. Yes. 

Thanks for the info.  This is what I am after.

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/16/2019 at 8:27 PM, DeeMak9 said:

Process is like this:

 

- IO officer at desk calls other officer

- Other officer escorts you to an area where you need to wait

- Your passport gets examined again, you will be questioned in or outside an office. What do you do in Thailand? Do you work in Thailand? How much money do you have with you? And all sorts of questions regarding your visa history.

- If they go ahead and refuse you entry, you will be escorted to another office where you get the chance to buy a ticket. If you cant pay, you need to wait until there is a free spot back home with your national airline (this can take a while, PAY IT!). You can buy a ticket on your phone or ask a mate to buy one and provide them with the reservation number.

- You will be escorted to the detention cell which you share with a group of other people waiting for their next flight home.

- You have access to electric so you can charge your phone and notebook.

- Once your flight is due you get picked up by 2-3 officers and you will be escorted to the departure gate right before the flight. It is then when you get your passport back.

 

 

Be aware that usually they want to you to back to your HOME country with your national airline and not the country you came from (if it differs). Few people succeed to convince them to let you fly back to the country you came from or anything other than your home country.

 

Thanks also.  This is the info I would like to know. 

[Mavideol]

On 3/16/2019 at 5:17 PM, DeeMak9 said:

And, in a case recently, they don't ask any questions - just straight to detention.

you are correct, this was not 4 years ago, I know for a fact this happen 1 month ago for absolutely no reason, only because the IMO was having a bad day and felt like it

[Thailand Outcast]

On 3/16/2019 at 8:30 PM, JackThompson said:

Actually, there are "official rules" set out in a law called the "Immigration Act" for which there is no provision to deny-entry to anyone for "frequency" of tourist-entries or some cumulative length of time.

 

But, your point is correct in terms of "What really happens" - which is that an IO and his buddies at a lawless point of entry may refuse your entry without legal-cause.  They have overwhelming force, and are not restricted to use that force in accordance with the law, so you are powerless to do anything about this.

 

My solution - Use Law-Abiding Entry Points and avoid the entire question of being detained.  Fly domestic after you cross the border.  Problem solved.

Which leads to the question, why should a land boarder be any different to an airport boarder?

[Thailand Outcast]

20 hours ago, EricTh said:

In the past, there were no limits which is a  loophole. The immigration will question you whether you are really a tourist or secretly working in Thailand.

 

If you go into Thailand two times per year, it is safe but more than that, you might be refused entry.

 

Thailand is the most popular country for farang, that is why immigration can be choosy. Why not  look elsewhere in SEA?

Already have looked elsewhere.  Settled on Vietnam.

 

I plan to visit Thailand regularly on exemption stamps and tourists visas, so need to know about the worst case scenario at an airport. 

[onera1961]

I disagree.  That's not quite correct.
 
Someone can travel to Thailand without a visa, (exemption stamp on arrival )but can be denied entry.  No problem with that.  However, when you have applied for a visa, and been granted one, it's not about the travel, which for Thailand, you can do anyway, it's about the entry.
 
Many western countries issue visas, and when the recipient is issued the visa, the can travel and gain entry.  Their visa does not get overturned at the boarder, possibly by an officer of junior rank to the consulate or embassy staff that issued the visa. 

Visas are routinely overturned including ED visas if the officer suspects you are not attending classes. However, they do a better vetting and it is more professional.


Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mavideol]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:28 PM, PoorSucker said:

1-2, Airline that brought you are responsible. 

3. No ATM before immigration. 

4-5. You don't pass immigration. 

6. Entry denied. 

7. Right away, but even harder now with the denied stamp. 

8. No. 

9. Detention until you can leave,could be longer than one day. 

10. No. 

11. Your possessions are not confiscated. 

12. Yes. 

OK, I understand that's the possible outcome for somebody coming in using and airline, what about the ones already here that face detention as well, do you happen to know how it will work, do you know if there's a law detailing the process, I would like to know because my friends (husband and wife) were detained/went to jail and the IMO didn't let them call anybody, were kept for 48 hours over the week end and only able to contact a lawyer on Monday (funny the lawyer was referred by the IMO) if it happens again would like to know our rights if any

[Thailand Outcast]

6 hours ago, Tayaout said:

Happen to me like 1 week ago. 

They will lock you in a room with other lucky guest (840 baht with shitty meal and water included).

 

At this point you are under the custody of an airline officer that in my case was a nice helpful guy. He doesn't work for the airport immigration. The immigration will confiscate your passport until you reach your next destination.

 

The airline employee will book for you the next flight to the country you came from. He will come with you to atm or change money, etc. 

 

Once you reach your next destination they will transfer your passport to immigration and you will have some explanation and paperwork to do. I'm my case Laos immigration canceled my exit stamp and told me I had 5 days to fly out and not try to go back to Thailand. 

 

I crossed to Thailand a couple day later via land border and now I'm enjoying the beach. Pretty good experience will do again A+

Thanks for your info.

 

Wasn't there some type of stamp in your passport that did not even allow you to cross a land boarder? 

[Thailand Outcast]

2 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Visas are routinely overturned including ED visas if the officer suspects you are not attending classes. However, they do a better vetting and it is more professional.


Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Overturned is different to being refused at a consulate or embassy outside of Thailand.

[Thailand Outcast]

Seems to be some different information about which airline is responsible for your exit from Thailand and / or what your exit destination would be. 

 

i never gave much thought to this part of the process.  I just took it for granted you could buy a flight to anyway. 

[BritTim]

15 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

OK, I understand that's the possible outcome for somebody coming in using and airline, what about the ones already here that face detention as well, do you happen to know how it will work, do you know if there's a law detailing the process, I would like to know because my friends (husband and wife) were detained/went to jail and the IMO didn't let them call anybody, were kept for 48 hours over the week end and only able to contact a lawyer on Monday (funny the lawyer was referred by the IMO) if it happens again would like to know our rights if any

Denied entry is totally different from being arrested in country and subsequently deported (whatever the reason for the deportation). There are many good threads on ThaiVisa that describe what happens to people in the immigration detention centre (IDC) and the deportation process.

[BritTim]

36 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Yes, it's crazy that a thai immigration official in a consulate issue you with a visa, then another immigration officer at a boarder over rules the issue of the visa and denies entry. 

There are no immigration officials at consulates. Consular officials work under the direction of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, not the Immigration Bureau.

 

Consular officials have a lot of discretion on whether to issue you a visa. Officially, immigration officials when you enter the country are only supposed to deny entry pursuant to explicit reasons listed in Section 12 of the Immigration Act (or additional criteria ordered by the Minister). In recent years, immigration officials at certain entry points, who feel they should have powers similar to those in most other countries, have been denying entry for reasons not listed in the Immigration Act, but then stamping your passport with one of the reasons actually listed in Section 12 (though you are, in fact, not in violation of the reason used).

[DrJack54]

OP couple posts back you mentioned where you are flown to if refused entry?

In the main City where you embarked. Think you also mentioned Vietnam for future. What visa are you planning on for Vietnam. Ask as others might be interested for similar reasons.

[onera1961]

13 minutes ago, BritTim said:

In recent years, immigration officials at certain entry points, who feel they should have powers similar to those in most other countries,

The difference is that In most Western countries if they suspect, they will do a thorough vetting and most of the time their vetting process are correct and they nab the culprit. They will allow appeal, of course you have to stay in detention for that. If it becomes a class, there are enlightened organization that will take the cause of the class (as happened when Muslims with permanent residency from certain countries) were denied entries. They are enlightened judges.  Thailand lacks all these things. Thailand being a Military ruled country knows only the military process. 

[lamyai3]

39 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Already have looked elsewhere.  Settled on Vietnam.

 

I plan to visit Thailand regularly on exemption stamps and tourists visas, so need to know about the worst case scenario at an airport. 

Worst case scenario in this case would be denied entry and returned to Vietnam, from where you'll have departed. If you were living in Vietnam with a multiple entry visa there should be no problem being allowed back in there. This also ought to reduce the risks of being rejected at this end too. If you run up against a limit on the number of tourist visas you can get from Vietnam, either Laos, Cambodia or Malaysia are alternatives, all with land border entry points. 

[Liverpudlian]

On 3/16/2019 at 8:35 AM, Pravda said:

I think you'll find out first hand when you are detained.

Typical snide answer often found here, makes one wonder why ?? 

[Thailand Outcast]

50 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There are no immigration officials at consulates. Consular officials work under the direction of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, not the Immigration Bureau.

 

Consular officials have a lot of discretion on whether to issue you a visa. Officially, immigration officials when you enter the country are only supposed to deny entry pursuant to explicit reasons listed in Section 12 of the Immigration Act (or additional criteria ordered by the Minister). In recent years, immigration officials at certain entry points, who feel they should have powers similar to those in most other countries, have been denying entry for reasons not listed in the Immigration Act, but then stamping your passport with one of the reasons actually listed in Section 12 (though you are, in fact, not in violation of the reason used).

Not really concerned about the title of the staff.

 

If they can issue, or refuse visas, that's good enough as being immigration staff for me.

 

 

[Thailand Outcast]

43 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

OP couple posts back you mentioned where you are flown to if refused entry?

In the main City where you embarked. Think you also mentioned Vietnam for future. What visa are you planning on for Vietnam. Ask as others might be interested for similar reasons.

Yes, I'll be relocating to Vietnam, however, visiting Thailand regularly.  I'm looking at 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Vietnam.

 

I wouldn't have a problem being denied entry and sent back to Vietnam, however, if this happened, I would like to know when it would be ok to enter Thailand again.  One member has posted he got sent back to Laos, and crossed the land boarder shortly after, which is ridiculous.  

 

I will have a 1 year multiple entry visa for Vietnam for around $400USD, or a 3 month multiple entry visa, which can be extended inside Vietnam up to 3 times before you have to do a visa run.   

[BritTim]

54 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Not really concerned about the title of the staff.

  

 If they can issue, or refuse visas, that's good enough as being immigration staff for me.

It is valuable to understand the dynamics between these two completely separate branches of government (and, although not relevant to this thread, the also separate labour department). Officials in different branches of government will rarely defer to the decisions of other departments. They operate according to the laws governing their own separate roles (or, in some cases, operate outside the law when it suits them).

[Tayaout]

3 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Thanks for your info.

 

Wasn't there some type of stamp in your passport that did not even allow you to cross a land boarder? 

Yes long story short the stamp says lack of money. It doesn't prevent crossing the border. They did not care at all when I crossed later via land. Here is the thread I started: 

 

[PoorSucker]

15 hours ago, Mavideol said:

OK, I understand that's the possible outcome for somebody coming in using and airline, what about the ones already here that face detention as well, do you happen to know how it will work, do you know if there's a law detailing the process, I would like to know because my friends (husband and wife) were detained/went to jail and the IMO didn't let them call anybody, were kept for 48 hours over the week end and only able to contact a lawyer on Monday (funny the lawyer was referred by the IMO) if it happens again would like to know our rights if any

They will be transferred to IDC in Bangkok. 

They will be detained until they can pay for the overstay and have tickets home. 

No time limit. 

IDC is a hellhole. 

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

One member has posted he got sent back to Laos, and crossed the land boarder shortly after, which is ridiculous.  

The IOs at the Laos border-crossing - and IOs at other Law Abiding points of entry - know the IOs at the Bangkok Airports are making up lies and abusing their power.  It was the original denied-entry which was ridiculous. 

The fact that many good IOs do not "back the play" of the bad ones is a very good sign - demonstrating that the entire Immigration system is not completely rotten - just parts of it.

 

There are no "rules" at play with these denials of entry, so no telling when/if you could ever enter at one of the unlawful entry-points.  But you could likely enter Thailand by a law-abiding entry point the next day after a denied-entry. 

If you dare to fly into a lawless hornets-nest entry point like the Bangkok airports, make sure you have the right to re-enter where ever you just flew from if things go badly.  Some have been booted back to Vietnam w/o a way to enter (no valid visa or VOA permission-letter), then booted-onward to their passport-country.

[KarlS]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The IOs at the Laos border-crossing - and IOs at other Law Abiding points of entry - know the IOs at the Bangkok Airports are making up lies and abusing their power.  It was the original denied-entry which was ridiculous. 

The fact that many good IOs do not "back the play" of the bad ones is a very good sign - demonstrating that the entire Immigration system is not completely rotten - just parts of it.

 

There are no "rules" at play with these denials of entry, so no telling when/if you could ever enter at one of the unlawful entry-points.  But you could likely enter Thailand by a law-abiding entry point the next day after a denied-entry. 

If you dare to fly into a lawless hornets-nest entry point like the Bangkok airports, make sure you have the right to re-enter where ever you just flew from if things go badly.  Some have been booted back to Vietnam w/o a way to enter (no valid visa or VOA permission-letter), then booted-onward to their passport-country.

Do you have EVIDENCE for these accusations or are you just making it up based on a few anonymous 'reports' 

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Do you have EVIDENCE for these accusations or are you just making it up based on a few anonymous 'reports' 

Far more than a "few" reports.  And they are increasing in frequency. 

Several reports include pictures of the OP in the detention-cell, as well as pictures of their rejection-stamps having nothing to do with the questions asked and made-up "laws" cited to them as the reason they were being detained and shipped-out.

Other reports are of interrogations where the OP was "let in" - which include elderly snowbirds who only stay a few months per-year.

 

 No reports of this nature exist (for years) at the law-abiding entry-points.  At worst (Malaysian crossings), one must comply with all of the published regulations.

[Nyezhov]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Other reports are of interrogations where the OP was "let in" - which include elderly snowbirds who only stay a few months per-year.

 

Hey thats me! I wonder if I will be popped at my next entry! Better give my heart meds, the <deleted> And toilet paper! Midnight Express!

[KarlS]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Far more than a "few" reports.  And they are increasing in frequency. 

Several reports include pictures of the OP in the detention-cell, as well as pictures of their rejection-stamps having nothing to do with the questions asked and made-up "laws" cited to them as the reason they were being detained and shipped-out.

Other reports are of interrogations where the OP was "let in" - which include elderly snowbirds who only stay a few months per-year.

Can you explain how many people have been exiting/entering Thailand for many years using legitimate visas/extensions of stay/re-entry permits (myself included) without any difficulty? What makes us "special"?