rooster59 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Boeing 737 MAX software patch expected before end-March - sources FILE PHOTO: An Air Canada Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft is seen on the ground at Toronto Pearson International Airport in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, March 13, 2019. REUTERS/Chris Helgren/File Photo SINGAPORE/PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co plans to release upgraded software for its 737 MAX in a week to 10 days, sources familiar with the matter said. The U.S. planemaker has been working on a software upgrade for an anti-stall system and pilot displays on its fastest-selling jetliner in the wake of the deadly Lion Air crash in Indonesia in October. Similarities between the flight path in the Lion Air incident and Sunday's Ethiopian Airlines crash have raised fresh questions about the system, but so far there is no evidence on whether the same software is again a potential issue. Asked about the timeline, first reported by AFP, a Boeing spokesman referred to a statement on Monday that the upgrade would be deployed across the 737 MAX fleet in the coming weeks. -- © Copyright Reuters 2019-03-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCC1701A Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 this patch is called WETOOLOW v2.04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 This is indicating they know what is wrong... I hope we are not in for "Crash-Patch-Crash-Patch-Crash..." (MicroSoft Mk2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGW Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Basil B said: This is indicating they know what is wrong... My thoughts also, even they knew already there was a problem or they Very quickly came to that conclusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Software sounds very apt! If Boeing have been working this (as a known fault) for longer than a few days, they need to be severely prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 If they are changing the flight controls response surely they should be forced to go through the whole aircraft re-certification process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyhangmon Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, VocalNeal said: If they are changing the flight controls response surely they should be forced to go through the whole aircraft re-certification process. +1 ... a red herring anyway, Boeing wants to distract only from the fact that there are massive structural problems with the 737 MAX which make this system even necessary in the first place. A software update is of course cheaper than a redesign of the model to the end that it would be 'easy' to fly even without corrections of the computer. Same strategy as in the >diesel gate< it appears ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravda Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 A patch? It's not Mario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 "Boeing is preparing your system for an update. Please do not turn off your computer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 A new software update? What was wrong with the old software? Apparently Boeing knows that. Or still not? Is this just a software placebo to minimize the money losses? As long as there is no clear error cause explanation, I will not get into this aircraft type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 UPS a Software Error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said: Is this just a software placebo to minimize the money losses? Great minds think alike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalmagic Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, rooster59 said: he U. 1 hour ago, rooster59 said: The U.S. planemaker has been working on a software upgrade for an anti-stall system and pilot displays on its fastest-selling jetliner in the wake of the deadly Lion Air crash in Indonesia in October. I'm not sure it can be called an upgrade! More like a replacement for one that didn't work and hadn't been thoroughly tested in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Boeing is expected to lose billions of $'s if they cannot get this software out in time, i.e. the longer they take to fix the problem, the longer they will have to compensate those airlines who have grounded their planes. I for one will certainly not be on one of these planes for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 It sounds like the pilots didn't know the aircraft was equpped with MCAS and didn't make sure it was off when taking off or known that MCAS was on or the potential cause of erratic aircraft nose down issues when taking off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negita43 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I have a question about this. For the last (probably 50 years) planes have flown millions of miles in our skies and as far as I know the incidences of one of them crashing through "stalling" have been few and far between. So here's my question: Much mention has been made about this model having anti stall software, given the above why is that needed? Is there something in the aircraft design that makes it necessary and if so should manufacturers be designing aircraft that are inherently unsafe to fly without the aid of "software" - which in itself is only as good as the people who program it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Srikcir said: It sounds like the pilots didn't know the aircraft was equpped with MCAS and didn't make sure it was off when taking off or known that MCAS was on or the potential cause of erratic aircraft nose down issues when taking off. As I understand it, it's not a switch on, switch off system. It's live all the time in order to offset the negative C of G issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Negita43 said: I have a question about this. For the last (probably 50 years) planes have flown millions of miles in our skies and as far as I know the incidences of one of them crashing through "stalling" have been few and far between. So here's my question: Much mention has been made about this model having anti stall software, given the above why is that needed? Is there something in the aircraft design that makes it necessary and if so should manufacturers be designing aircraft that are inherently unsafe to fly without the aid of "software" - which in itself is only as good as the people who program it! Yes. The aircraft has been designed around the much heavier engines and the C of G is too far back for the new weight of this variant. The C of G should go through the centre of mass and in this variant it doesn't. That makes the aircraft inherently unstable in pitch , hence the need for an anti stall system that detects the angle of attack and adjusts the aircraft's pitch angle accordingly. From what I have read, the possibility is that the AOA detectors malfunctioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherd3 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Maybe they should train the pilots how to use the anti stall software system , something they did not do because to retrain the worlds 737 max pilots costs a lot of money and that cost may have stopped airlines buying the plane, so they didn't put it in the schedule.$$$$$ only bye bye safety 2 planes total loss. And thet are still lying about a software fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogNo1 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I read somewhere that the redone software will make the pitch correction smaller. Maybe they will also reduce the weight on the stick making it easier for the pilots to pull the nose back up. Maybe the 14% fuel savings are not worth the danger caused by the plane’s altered C of G. We’ll have to see how the clever minds at Boeing fix the problem. BTW, my son-in-law works as an engineer there but only works on electrical systems, not aircraft design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Basil B said: This is indicating they know what is wrong... I hope we are not in for "Crash-Patch-Crash-Patch-Crash..." (MicroSoft Mk2) 3 hours ago, CGW said: My thoughts also, even they knew already there was a problem or they Very quickly came to that conclusion! And "even they knew already there was a problem or they very quickly came to that conclusion!" and it had caused the Indonesia crash and large loss of life, why didn't Lion ground all aircraft immediately? Also It seems to me to be very likely that Lion (their Indonesian operations / their HQ for operations across several countries), would be quite well informed by Boeing that a problem had been identified, so why didn't Lion ground all aircraft immediately, regionally, until the fix was installed? Got to be honest, I've been using Thai Lion quite often domestic and regional but I've now changed to another LLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGW Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, scorecard said: And "even they knew already there was a problem or they very quickly came to that conclusion!" and it had caused the Indonesia crash and large loss of life, why didn't they ground all aircraft immediately??? Also It seems to me to be very likely that Lion (their Indonesian operations / their HQ for operations across several countries), would be quite well informed by Boeing that a problem had been identified, so why didn't Lion ground all aircraft immediately until the fix was installed? My "guess" would be that they - as the airline industry does - ran a "safety case" on the situation, safety is money based, to ground the aircraft would cost xxx, to manage the situation, which may or may not include another crash would have been far cheaper, meaning cheaper to pay out for another crash than ground aircraft, money is #1 to these massive corporations. Only action by others stopped them doing this! Should they be sued - yes - will they be sued - No - they are too big, they are an integral part of the US corporate government, no different to the corrupt bankers who also - & continue to get away with criminal activities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 49 minutes ago, DogNo1 said: I read somewhere that the redone software will make the pitch correction smaller. Maybe they will also reduce the weight on the stick making it easier for the pilots to pull the nose back up. Maybe the 14% fuel savings are not worth the danger caused by the plane’s altered C of G. We’ll have to see how the clever minds at Boeing fix the problem. BTW, my son-in-law works as an engineer there but only works on electrical systems, not aircraft design. They are not that clever, as they appear to have managed to kill a few hundred people with their apparent incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yme Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 4 hours ago, jollyhangmon said: +1 ... a red herring anyway, Boeing wants to distract only from the fact that there are massive structural problems with the 737 MAX which make this system even necessary in the first place. A software update is of course cheaper than a redesign of the model to the end that it would be 'easy' to fly even without corrections of the computer. Same strategy as in the >diesel gate< it appears ... Quite a detailed story here: https://aecnewstoday.com/2019/why-the-boeing-737-max-needs-a-full-airworthy-review/ That they're allowed to fly it based on a 1950s airworthy certificate is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckThai Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 How many similar accidents worldwide? Odd that 2 go down in 3rd world/developing countries. I haven't heard of incidents in North America or Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 So, Boeing is patching something that didn't work properly. And, Boeing obviously knew it didn't work properly. And, not working properly, it caused a brand new jet to crash in good weather, killing all aboard. Really inexcusable that Boeing didn't ground all the planes after the first crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedrogaz Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 A bloody patch?You won't find men a Boeing 737Max for a few years yet. The slugs, a patch? A stinking patch to cover hundreds of lives lost? I don't trust US corporations as far as I can vomit over their overweening greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, CGW said: My "guess" would be that they - as the airline industry does - ran a "safety case" on the situation, safety is money based, to ground the aircraft would cost xxx, to manage the situation, which may or may not include another crash would have been far cheaper, meaning cheaper to pay out for another crash than ground aircraft, money is #1 to these massive corporations. Only action by others stopped them doing this! Should they be sued - yes - will they be sued - No - they are too big, they are an integral part of the US corporate government, no different to the corrupt bankers who also - & continue to get away with criminal activities! They will be paying out many millions to the relatives of those killed and to the airlines that bought the failed and flawed jet. The American litigation system will see to that. Not that it will make an ounce of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncc1701d Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Srikcir said: It sounds like the pilots didn't know the aircraft was equpped with MCAS and didn't make sure it was off when taking off or known that MCAS was on or the potential cause of erratic aircraft nose down issues when taking off. By all accounts this is a very worrying thing and I’ve not heard of Boeing doing before. Pilots have to train for almost every conceivable failure event. To deliberately not provide a checklist with associated memory items to account for a failure like this is very unlike Boeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 14 hours ago, ncc1701d said: By all accounts this is a very worrying thing and I’ve not heard of Boeing doing before. Pilots have to train for almost every conceivable failure event. To deliberately not provide a checklist with associated memory items to account for a failure like this is very unlike Boeing. The system, as I understand it, is not an on/off system under the direct control of the pilots, it's wired into the fly by wire system as a permanent fixture. Earlier reports say some US pilots that have experienced difficulties with the anti stall malfunctioning have used the trim system to counteract the effects. I am struggling to see how that would work out, as the trip system on most aircraft will have limited authority against the larger surfaces. But I only ever flew the earlier marks of Boeing's that did not have full fly by wire. Perhaps the anti stall works through the trim system, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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