Gov Gets Tough On Bars, Violence And Encroachment

[VocalNeal]

Yes - entertainment venues are lifeblood to resort areas. One has to wonder when the powers that be, will get it through their thick skulls.

Thailand has to be one of the only places in the world where people come and cant get a drink after 1am legaley they will stop coming like they have almost in samui

With oil being discovered in Cambodia, Vietnam being able go grow enough rice for....how is Thailand going to fair? The one thing they have is a thriving tourist industry, read foreign currency. I agree with the concept of tourist zones where, maybe, bars can stay open however long they want. Commercial situation would do the regulation. I don’t see the problem.

Oh yes the new Chief of Police is a bit of a stickler for the law. Hence the reference to the police coming from Bangkok and everyone losing their job. In Bangkok he recently discharged one policeman for setting all the traffic lights to green to facilitate his progress to a “surprise” inspection. One the basis that he is only one man and why should he inconvenience so many people, after all, if needed, he has a siren and lights. Also no more “uniform” police on duty in plain clothes, as they are in Patpong, etc.

Without competing with the rest of the world, that what does Thailand have to offer in the future over and above Cambodia or Vietnam? I am told that even UK has relaxed drinking hours. In Vancouver (Canada for those of you from Wash.) they have instituted as special tourist zone where the bars are allowed to stay open late. Why ? For business and also so they know where all the revellers and hence the problems might be. Patong would seem an excellent place for that.

Thailand it is a welcoming, working, accommodating country with beautiful and smiling (outwardly) people. If one can’t let loose on holiday what’s the point of coming. Patong, Samui and Walking Street are three small areas in a big country. I say follow Vancouver’s lead.

[Bonaparte]

One sentence devoted to "violence". two to "stair encroachment" and a whole story rambling about bar hours... that's priority in the usual sense!

This sums it up quite nicely. Nothing like a set of prioritie's.

[Mid]

And please spare me comments on the economic nessecity. One high quality couple looking for a quiet place, nice restaurants and boutiques will spend more than 10 charter tourists.

couldn't care if you spend 110 times more ...............................

NONE of it trickles down to the locals .......................

[begsaresponse]

And please spare me comments on the economic nessecity. One high quality couple looking for a quiet place, nice restaurants and boutiques will spend more than 10 charter tourists.

couldn't care if you spend 110 times more ...............................

NONE of it trickles down to the locals .......................

Are you daft or what? Ofcourse money fliters down to locals! Who works in bars/restuarants/shops etc etc

[San_Belgium]

Why stop with the enforcement of these laws?

Get rid of the venues promoting prostituition and limit the number of bars.

You will get high spending and high quality tourists in return who prefer a decent drink at a nice bar to rubbing with overweight and drunk farang (male & female).

You sure jump to conclusions!

Did you do any research on the topic or is it merely your gut feeling that makes you believe that getting rid of prostitution and bars will draw in "high spending and high quality tourists". Your assumption sounds a bit short sighted to me.

Second point: the article quotes Maj Gen Decha explaining the motivation of this 'crackdown' :

To avoid blame and/or loss of face because "police from bangkok might come make arrests".

Gov Niran voiced similar concerns “We have to enforce the law. If we do not we ourselves may get in trouble".

This makes me believe this action is not directed in any way to improve life quality or other noble causes, it is not about tourism revenue either, but just about self interests of law enforcers/governor who want to avoid criticism or sanctions from their superiors for not doing their job (enforcing the law).

[RedQualia]

A bit confused, so I'll ask for more info.

First, from the original article for this thread: 'PHUKET CITY: -- Phuket Governor Niran Kalayanamit has ordered police to continue their crackdown on bars in Patong opening after hours, saying that there were no exceptions in the law for "tourist provinces".'

Now, from a search of the forums in which I tried to find out what the actual law might be (to no real avail): "BANGKOK: The Cabinet yesterday endorsed a new regulation for a midnight closing time for most entertainment venues, while allowing nightspots in designated zones to stay open two hours longer." But this is from 2004. (see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php/t6168.html).

So, what is the actual law? Anyone know? Kinda hard to talk about it without knowing what it is.

Comments and more questions:

- From the above, it appears that there are "designated zones" allowing at least some bars to stay open until 2AM (though again, it's old news, and I cannot find "the law"). What's closing time in Patong? Is Patong not in such a "designated zone?" If not, then how does it become a zone such that it can be open until 2AM? For that matter, in the governor's original quote, what constitutes "after hours?" Midnight? 2AM? Something else?

- What constitutes "an entertainment venue?" Is this limited to a "bar?" That is, there are all night places here in the USA that do not serve alcohol. Does the Thai law prohibit such?

- There are also some bars/clubs in Thailand that have a policy permitting BYOB (much cheaper than what the bar charges, and kinda nice of them). Could a club stay open all night if they served no alcohol, but permitted BYOB?

Just wondering. Lots of bars for sale in Thailand, and I figure there's a reason (guessing that it's too many people wanting part of too small a profit). Not too interested in owning one as a rule, but sometimes wonder how long it might be until such could be "rehabilitated" or made profitable, or... So, I ask.

Thanks

[stingray]

Why tourists come to Thailand? I my self don't drink, but i think tourists come overhere for Entertainment. High Quality Tourists not come to unclean Beaches, full overloeaded with garbage, smells up to heaven, like same Beaches in Pattaya. High quality Tourists go to Miami, Caribean Island, Saint Tropez, Hawaii, etc. In Waikiki Hawaii have simular Beach life, but nowhere i can smell Garbage. But of corse the prices we have to pay in Hawaii are much higher than in Thailand. Tourists who can not afford High class Destinations come overhere and of corse there are many low class Expats too, because Thailand still a cheap place to living and cheap for Holidays. So there we have to deal with. If Tourists can not Drink after Mitnight and can not have Entertainment, why they should come here? Only for shopping? In Our Homecountry we get everything. It's not worth to travel 10'000 Miles only for cheap Shopping.

[stingray]

Just wondering. Lots of bars for sale in Thailand, and I figure there's a reason (guessing that it's too many people wanting part of too small a profit). Not too interested in owning one as a rule, but sometimes wonder how long it might be until such could be "rehabilitated" or made profitable, or... So, I ask.

Thanks

Some Bars make good money and some don't. So just enexample: some middelaged Thailady can run her bar for years, and some foreign bar same location, next to her (usally s or 3 partners) are bankrupt within 6 months. The difference: The Thailady who runs her bar, have sometime tree different Boyfriends at different time, but each of her boyfriends beleve he is the only one and is proud thath his girlfriend run s her own Business call Bar in Thailand. Each Boyfriend support her with the Keymoney she have to pay each year. Let's say she have to pay 12'000 Baht for the rent each month and 800'000 Baht Key money each year. So 3 time 800'000 Baht is 2.4 Million, she gets from her 3 Boyfriend. But she pays only one Keymoney. She still have 1.6 million over, each year. So she doesn't give a clue the bars make any profit or not. I not say every Lady do this, but some they handle their bar business this way. Otherwise Keymoneys never getting so high.

[Mid]

And please spare me comments on the economic nessecity. One high quality couple looking for a quiet place, nice restaurants and boutiques will spend more than 10 charter tourists.

couldn't care if you spend 110 times more ...............................

NONE of it trickles down to the locals .......................

Are you daft or what? Ofcourse money fliters down to locals! Who works in bars/restuarants/shops etc etc

Nope ,

pu ex airport x mini -bus and escorted to 5 star resort inside walled compound ,

may partake in a day tour organised by said resort ,

mini bus back to air port ................

those of us in the industry have the figures to prove it......

[Arkady]

The problem is that they pass (decree?) laws that are then not enforced--except sometimes they are, then sometimes they aren't, then we'll let you break it a little, but not a lot, but it's a special holiday so you can break it a lot. Oh, it's a Buddhist holiday, so you can't break it at all.

God, this has got to be confusing for everyone, including the police. Nonetheless, it's a great way to get bribes. Bar owners surely aren't exactly clear either.

Once everyone is on the same page with a law, then people can take action to make sure the law works well. They can go through channels to get it changed.

Oh, and by the way, there isn't a need for a law on absolutely everything.

Typical of many things in Thailand. Have ridiculously strict and old fashioned laws and then give the disgustingly corrupt Thai police far too much power in applying the law, issuing licences & etc. No consideration is given to what is actually needed in a tourist resort. What do they expect?

[Temporaneo]

Muslim fundamentalists will keep chipping away at the freedom of the Thai people until, one day, your avarage Thai will awake to the 5:00am call to prayer.

Actually in Batam the first prayer was at 4.30am....every morning and shouted quite loud (it never failed to wake me )

[JT65]

I have been reading through this topic over the last 30 mins and am confused over one posters response. He quotes that tourism is still getting stronger and stronger every year. I have lived in Chiang Mai now for 7 years and my wife runs a small takeaway food shop in what was a very busy soi in Chiang Mai. Over the last say 2 years and especially after the coupe the numbers of tourists in our beer centre have dropped dramatically and most businesses in the immediate area are screaming for customers. I cannot comment on other parts of Thailand but Chiang Mai definitely has not had a high season this year with foreign tourists. The hotels and Thai restaurants have done well due to the thai population visiting the flower festival which has now ended.

The thing i do not understand is the never ending construction of shopping centres, hotels and upmarket markets aimed at high end tourists. A classic example of this is the new JJ Market complex in Chiang Mai which has been open a couple of years now. It is an absolutely beautiful complex, well designed and a credit to its developers but there is just no tourists there spending money. The shops are upmarket with high quality products although the pricing is a bit high too. The thing is there is just no customers going there. Some of the Bars on the outskirt of the centre do well in the night but thats it. There is another centre out of town in the Hang Dong area called Kad Farang. Rimping supermarket, black canyon and S& P are in there together with many small variety shops. The big names do okay but not super and again the centre is very well built and is a lovely centre , but no customers. How do they stay open? and why do they keep building major hotel one after the other.

I am obviously missing something in the picture.

Look forward to enlightenment!!

[fxe1200]

The law has to be enforced. Unless they amend it. Relaxation on enforcement is one thing that it has been all this while. But if thing goes wrong eg. "fire razed illegal disco many casulties" someones have to take responsible.

Down here in Hat Yai we do have a smart solution: Almost all pubs close on time. But a few discos and bars stay open. That makes it easier for the local Police to overlook the night scene. A little contribution towards the police for all these extra hours of work could possibly occur. But who cares, this way everybody is happy.

[lazeeboy]

A bit confused, so I'll ask for more info.

First, from the original article for this thread: 'PHUKET CITY: -- Phuket Governor Niran Kalayanamit has ordered police to continue their crackdown on bars in Patong opening after hours, saying that there were no exceptions in the law for "tourist provinces".'

Now, from a search of the forums in which I tried to find out what the actual law might be (to no real avail): "BANGKOK: The Cabinet yesterday endorsed a new regulation for a midnight closing time for most entertainment venues, while allowing nightspots in designated zones to stay open two hours longer." But this is from 2004. (see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php/t6168.html).

So, what is the actual law? Anyone know? Kinda hard to talk about it without knowing what it is.

Comments and more questions:

- From the above, it appears that there are "designated zones" allowing at least some bars to stay open until 2AM (though again, it's old news, and I cannot find "the law"). What's closing time in Patong? Is Patong not in such a "designated zone?" If not, then how does it become a zone such that it can be open until 2AM? For that matter, in the governor's original quote, what constitutes "after hours?" Midnight? 2AM? Something else?

- What constitutes "an entertainment venue?" Is this limited to a "bar?" That is, there are all night places here in the USA that do not serve alcohol. Does the Thai law prohibit such?

- There are also some bars/clubs in Thailand that have a policy permitting BYOB (much cheaper than what the bar charges, and kinda nice of them). Could a club stay open all night if they served no alcohol, but permitted BYOB?

Just wondering. Lots of bars for sale in Thailand, and I figure there's a reason (guessing that it's too many people wanting part of too small a profit). Not too interested in owning one as a rule, but sometimes wonder how long it might be until such could be "rehabilitated" or made profitable, or... So, I ask.

Thanks

the law states outside bangkok 1 am if nohigh ranking cop mp is about then its normally 2am if you pay somsone then whatever time you like and the reason so many bars for sale is most have never been a publican let alone buisness owner in there own country and have normally been told to do this and do that thinking and doing thing by one self is harder than they think and more often than not there thai wife spends all the profits because as we know the tooth fairy stocks the fridge and santa pays the rent

[Tammi]

Maybe they should create a "party zone" in Thailand, but please let it be away from where local people live, who mostly work 12-14 hours per day and need their rest.

Absolutely. I have been recommending this for months for Pattaya and Jomthien. Build a walled town out in the boonies and send all the working girls, karaoke, bars that want to stay open all night, go-go bars, short time rooms, there to party and fornicate all they want. The green line, yellow line, red line buses can be used to go there and make a profit at last. It will be easy to police being a walled town and when the buses with the revellers return to Pattaya and Jomthien, police will be there to greet them and ensure orderly behaviour or spend the night in the clink. Simple!

[blam]

Why stop with the enforcement of these laws?

Get rid of the venues promoting prostituition and limit the number of bars.

You will get high spending and high quality tourists in return who prefer a decent drink at a nice bar to rubbing with overweight and drunk farang (male & female).

You will get people who like to sleep at night and not to be kept up by noise.

These low life tourists and expats who are attracted by low quality "entertainment" should not be welcome in Thailand.

Once they are gone this will be a much better place again.

And please spare me comments on the economic nessecity. One high quality couple looking for a quiet place, nice restaurants and boutiques will spend more than 10 charter tourists.

I hope the Phuket authorities realize what it takes to be No. 1 in Asia in the future. If you want quality you can't have quantity.

#1. I live here in Patong Beach, Phuket, been here two years this time, lived in Chiang Mai for almost 20 years before that. Have been coming to Phuket since before there WAS a Patong Beach and it was a 4X4 dirt or sand track. Everything looked the same for a 400 mile stretch up and down the entire southern Thai coastline; muddy water buffaloes, dirty (abject poverty) fishing villages, sea gypsies, a few wats scattered in the rain forest. No money, lots of destitution. And of course lots of vertiginous incredible scenery that the Thais had little appreciation for. Patong itself was one restaurant owned by a local old Chinese guy, right on the beach under the trees with a thatched roof. There were a few little 20 Baht bungalows back off the sandy rut dirt road. And, of course, there was that one hotel sparking in the mind of an industrious Dutch guy.

-Things are different now (duh, hello) and even the poor people have made it, and it seems that even the poor all have maids, if that tells you anything, and, even the maids have good money. Yes, there are too may a$$hooole drunks trying to get the bars to stay open late. But, the girls they are chasing would rather go eat kanom jiin or nam ya and go free lance to the discos anyway. The bartenders would rather go home and sleep. Low priority stuff really.

- People here have money, lots of money. The land owners are rich, they run the govt. Usually if there is some real bad stuff going on, there will be a smokescreen blown at the press, usually about the bars blah blah blah. Or, if somebody says "Hmm, well I don't like this thing the way it is, I am not making my millions my way" the mayor or the governor then makes some noise. Phuket Gazette reports it, it gets to ThaiVisa.com. SameO sameO.

#2. The Muslims really are taking a very strong hold of the the island now, it is totally not the same as before when it was religion based. The Islamic power core is now better known as the 'Muslim Mafia', and yes you had better believe they are dangerous as h#ll. They control the rents in the cheap apts and the talads (markets) all over the island. And, yes, you can hear the prayers elevated to extra loud volume everywhere now, every two hours starting at 5:30 am until the last one at 8 pm. They are edging up the ramp of government control as well, don't kid yourself.

#3. It really will get to a point where they (the powers that be here) don't care about who's money is what and what goes where. Phuket had 115 private jets fly in over a 2 week period in December, the average now is 34 a week, that's about 5 a day for those who are counting. Packpackers can't afford Phuket, have not been able to for a long time. Phuket is not for wussies, has the great reputation it does from fun and relaxation. If you just want the relaxation part, go to Lanta Island and have a go there... "don't tell me how things are SUPPOSED to be in my own home town", buhbye.

#4. Umm, soandso? Prostitution is a way of life here, and no matter if they come up that tired old Vietnam war excuse, the entire country has had a huge number of 'lady houses' for 200 years. Yes, it is part of the culture, always has been. Live here and you will understand the reality from north to south and all over the Kingdom, it is not prostitution the way the west sees it, it just just another form of work. Mind set? Well soandso, I think you should get back to either your AA meetings or your crackpipe and realize that you aren't really here at all are you (hmm?), and therefore have no validity key to your statements... well OK you show about as much honest cluelessness as EX Prime Minister Thakin's wife (who seriously comes from another planet, "Dream World" and why old Toxin is where he is now.)

#5. Thailand itself HAS lost International revenues, and will continue to do so. They screwed up, and will pay for it. Baht strength and overinflated growth rates don't mean squat. Seriously? It's over folks. Thaksin's boat was a hole in the sea you dump your country in.

...

Phuket is going to grow, stabilize, grow some more, get richer, and so on, there will be more Islamic influence on the bottom end, and yep, the beach, the bars, the girls, the nightlife, the mayor's and governor's hooting, and the rich jet owners hawing: all are here to stay, and will just go on and on. Get over it people Phuket is hardly Thailand any more. It is a big boy kite flying on its own string. If you don't live here, then shut up, your speculation is pure b#llsh!t. Or, just come here and have the time of your life. before it's too late.

As always, sorry for any typos. The sun is glaring off of my computer monitor again today.

[Little Black Duck]

Hmnnn...Foolishly read the whole thing, still it broke the boredom..

There were actually a couple of Posters talking about Phuket and the thread

one actually managed to get the nasty Muslim terrorists involved, still don't know why..

The wowsers got their shillings worth, Gee the Religious mob didn't get a look in.

All those nasty people drinking Booze, I wonder how many tourists took advantage

of places like Phuket Fantasea, James Bond Island, Diving and Snorkeling..

[Siamkid]

Hello Blam

I too live in Patong, 16+ years now and before that Chiang Mai for 5 years. I've been perusing Thai Visa for several years and making a very occasional post. I must say, of all the different forums and all of the different threads I've read on this topic I have to say that your post concerning Phuket is by far the most accurate I've ever seen !!! I feel so much better now that I realize that I am not alone in seeing this three ring circus as it really is, a true Banana Republic, love it or leave it !!! The show will go on, with or without us !!!

[The Skipper]

They can keep the bars open all nite..... Just don't let them setup next to my hotel room or apartment.

Keeping the neighborhood up all nite is a bad idea. Agreed?

[blam]

Hmnnn...Foolishly read the whole thing, still it broke the boredom..

There were actually a couple of Posters talking about Phuket and the thread

one actually managed to get the nasty Muslim terrorists involved, still don't know why..

The wowsers got their shillings worth, Gee the Religious mob didn't get a look in.

All those nasty people drinking Booze, I wonder how many tourists took advantage

of places like Phuket Fantasea, James Bond Island, Diving and Snorkeling..

Say what?

[Falux2]

They mean encockroachment...

[KK-Mike]

Why stop with the enforcement of these laws?

Get rid of the venues promoting prostituition and limit the number of bars.

You will get high spending and high quality tourists in return who prefer a decent drink at a nice bar to rubbing with overweight and drunk farang (male & female).

You will get people who like to sleep at night and not to be kept up by noise.

These low life tourists and expats who are attracted by low quality "entertainment" should not be welcome in Thailand.

Once they are gone this will be a much better place again.

And please spare me comments on the economic nessecity. One high quality couple looking for a quiet place, nice restaurants and boutiques will spend more than 10 charter tourists.

I hope the Phuket authorities realize what it takes to be No. 1 in Asia in the future. If you want quality you can't have quantity.

Its a good thing you are in the minority and who do you think you are to attack farang's??? Find you a nice quiet, expensive place and go there. I'm sure no one invited you to come to Thailand, you came by choice and now your unhappy, no one cares!!!

[kurtgruen]

I don't know why so many people say that tourism is down? Maybe it is in some places of Thailand, but it sure isn't in Chiang Dao (Chiang Mai Province). We haven't had time to breathe yet, never mind taking a good holiday.

When we opened our restaurant/guesthouse last year, there was only one other farang restaurant in town. Now there are five and for the most part, we are all busy.

Last year, we had maybe one person a day, on average, stop in from the highway, when they seen our sign. This year, it's at least two or three groups per day, not counting the locals or repeat customers.

Until recently, we had trouble booking into our regular hotel in Chiang Mai, on a weekday, because Chiang Mai was packed with the flower festival and even though there are vacancies now, the bars like Spotlight and Chiang Mai Saloon have been packed, even recently.

Can't speak for the South, I only go down South once a year for a few week holiday, but this country is definitely not gloom and doom, like some people like to paint it.

I know that a lot of you are mad, because your dollar or Euro doesn't go as far as it did under the Toxin government and others because it is not as easy to get a 30 day stamp anymore, after your passport is full with them. As for the rest of us, I don't think much has changed. Life is great in Thailand. The girls are still cute and they will still take your money. Most of you will still pay a million for a 60000 Baht piece of land, because you are farang and put too much trust in your Thai princesses and Thai friends. The beer is still cheap, compared to Canada and you can still ride your bike without too much hazzle. Paradise I say, bloody Paradise

Where else in the world can you live like a king, with next to no money, while enjoying Satelite TV, ADSL, Air Condition and beautiful girls who can't speak English? Where you can jump on your scoot and go thousands of miles on fairly decent roads? Where bike clubs wai to each other instead of killing each other? Where the weather is next to perfect year around?

One guy called us low life expats, but I prefer this country to the Caymen Islands anytime. I came from Canada and moved here, because I enjoy more freedom and lower taxes. This fall, three of my brothers are moving here as well, plus many are coming over to visit every year. So if tourism is down, I sure haven't noticed it up here. And if it really is down, so be it, a few less white a**es around won't bother me any.

I love this forum though, makes me feel right at home

[SiriusBlack1]

Step 1: Pass SENSIBLE laws, not purposefully unreasonable and fiendishly complicated regulations designed to generate backhanders.

Step 2: Pay police officers a competitive wage and offer an amnesty for those who confess to accepting bribes or quit the force, by a certain deadline.

Step 3: Using your shiny new, cleaner-than-clean police force, enforce those reasonable laws CONSISTENTLY. The term "crackdown" should no longer appear in the newspapers, ever.

Step 4: Profit.

Okay, I didn't say it would be easy

[Akamai]

Come on guys really get real

Rich home owners with steps to the sea = money

Bar owners opening late = money

Violent criminals = danger

You do the Math! It's business as normal in Phuket

[Dupont]

Come on guys really get real

Rich home owners with steps to the sea = money

Bar owners opening late = money

Violent criminals = danger

You do the Math! It's business as normal in Phuket

Am sure it will be, we've seen it time and time again.

I watched thousands of tourists walking round looking totally bemused with the situation. Not fat sex tourists, but couples, families etc who come from much more enlightned countries. Countries where they are not sent to bed like naughty children, espescially when there's no school tomorrow!!

The streets of Patong were totally crammed with people and traffic was grid locked. Each and every one of these people had one thing in common.... THEY WERE GOING HOME WITH MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS THAT THEY WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE SPENT! however the "lie on the beach and read a book" puritanists look at it, its lost revenue. No two ways about it.

The Thais got it, and Thai bar owners and restaurant owners will be at the forefront of the protests against this idiocy. Even the Police chief sounded reluctant in the OP and seams to be saying that he is doing something that the powers that be in Bangkok and the Governor are the ones to blame. Its so obvious that they (the police) are not happy with this.

We in the west learned years ago that it is a major cause of crime having that many people coming out of bars at the same time. One again Thailand is in reverse gear.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Dupont

[lannarebirth]

I have been reading through this topic over the last 30 mins and am confused over one posters response. He quotes that tourism is still getting stronger and stronger every year. I have lived in Chiang Mai now for 7 years and my wife runs a small takeaway food shop in what was a very busy soi in Chiang Mai. Over the last say 2 years and especially after the coupe the numbers of tourists in our beer centre have dropped dramatically and most businesses in the immediate area are screaming for customers. I cannot comment on other parts of Thailand but Chiang Mai definitely has not had a high season this year with foreign tourists. The hotels and Thai restaurants have done well due to the thai population visiting the flower festival which has now ended.

The thing i do not understand is the never ending construction of shopping centres, hotels and upmarket markets aimed at high end tourists. A classic example of this is the new JJ Market complex in Chiang Mai which has been open a couple of years now. It is an absolutely beautiful complex, well designed and a credit to its developers but there is just no tourists there spending money. The shops are upmarket with high quality products although the pricing is a bit high too. The thing is there is just no customers going there. Some of the Bars on the outskirt of the centre do well in the night but thats it. There is another centre out of town in the Hang Dong area called Kad Farang. Rimping supermarket, black canyon and S& P are in there together with many small variety shops. The big names do okay but not super and again the centre is very well built and is a lovely centre , but no customers. How do they stay open? and why do they keep building major hotel one after the other.

I am obviously missing something in the picture.

Look forward to enlightenment!!

I think I can enlighten you about a coupkle of things.

1) there have been a great number of new businesses opened in the past couple of years in CM, who's target customer are foreign tourists/expats. I think it is not true that tourism has declined, but more true that evrmore businesses are sharing that seasonal income.

2) Developers such as those who built JJ and Kad farang make their money on rents and key money. They get enough key money that failing businesses ar GOOD for their business. Two poor choices of location IMO, but that's another matter.

[britmaveric]

Maybe they should create a "party zone" in Thailand, but please let it be away from where local people live, who mostly work 12-14 hours per day and need their rest.

Absolutely. I have been recommending this for months for Pattaya and Jomthien. Build a walled town out in the boonies and send all the working girls, karaoke, bars that want to stay open all night, go-go bars, short time rooms, there to party and fornicate all they want. The green line, yellow line, red line buses can be used to go there and make a profit at last. It will be easy to police being a walled town and when the buses with the revellers return to Pattaya and Jomthien, police will be there to greet them and ensure orderly behaviour or spend the night in the clink. Simple!

Perhaps one of the most absurd things mentioned thus far.

[Jabiru]

Quite agree. When the next addition of the Lone Planet or Rough Guide to South East Asia comes out and they tourists find out that everything shuts early they will start heading off to other destinations. I believe tourism accounts for a large part of the economy?

[ThaiFelix]

Yes - entertainment venues are lifeblood to resort areas. One has to wonder when the powers that be, will get it through their thick skulls.

thailand has to be one of the only places in the world where people come and cant get a drink after 1am legaley (sic) they will stop coming like they have almost in samui

Every few weeks the resident gurus predict that the tourists will stop coming and that the economy is in dire straits.

Apparently the tourists never seem to subscribe to these views. Coups, tsunamis, bombs...and the tourists keep coming in record numbers.

The baht continues to strengthen. Analysts appearing on Bloomberg continue to suggest that Thailand offers great investment opportunities. Major corporations contemplate opening billion dollar industrial operations.

I can easily see why some of Thai Visa message board's most vocal commentators want alcohol available 24 hours a day...and it has nothing to do with helping the tourism industry.

Watch Pattaya People Channel on TV for a few days. The continuing parade of drunken farang misfits getting into brawls, jumping from condo & hotel balconies or being mugged because of their drunken state of vulnerability is just amazing. Who needs that? If all the tourists who absolutely need to drink between 1:00 am and 6:00 am never came to Thailand, it would be no loss.

I totally agree with you, Kao Jai.

I think they should have a place for Slobbering drunks, but lets not let it be Thailand, please. Pick a place in your own country guys and leave us in peace. I'm sure Thai people are getting tired of being the dumping point of American and European misfits (just to name a couple). We have enough Thai drunks here to carry the breweries and distilleries. We don't need foreigners to come over here and act like idiots. There are enough idiots here already.

I know people (mostly young people) need a place to let of steam, but let them do it in their own country. Don't pollute beautiful Thailand with your attitudes and behaviors.

We have Raves and such in Canada, where people can party their faces off, stay up for days at a time and do all kinds of other stuff, which is great, for people who want to do it. They are usually held in remote areas, which has practically no negative impact on the community.

Maybe they should create a "party zone" in Thailand, but please let it be away from where local people live, who mostly work 12-14 hours per day and need their rest.

I see it up here in Chiang Dao already, when some idiot opens an outdoor bar or Karaoke place and nobody in the neighborhood gets a good night sleep anymore. My neighbors get up at 5am to go work in the fields (mostly farmers around here) and work until sunset. They don't need crap like that.

When you stay up all night and party every night in a neighborhood where people live and sleep, you are asking for problems, because people will complain and when they finally had enough of local corruption keeping the doors open, they will go above their heads and bring in someone from Bangkok to close them down.

The wheels of justice might grind slower here in Thailand, but eventually one will get crushed by them.

Totally agree. I have been coming to this country frequently, for over 20 years and I have seen some disgraceful changes. No I am not talking 'the good ol days', I expect things to change...it is the only constant. Now I live here and have done so for two years, but now I dont like going to the tourist areas because I feel ashamed to be a farang. I have seen the same thing happen in Bali and was ashamed there.

And yes, maybe we should be getting our priorities right, thinking about the violence and the encroachment, but are they not intricately connected?

When I first came here there was ganja everywhere, and a bit of opium. But the result was a few very relaxed smiling faces ( and some nodding). The farang brought the 'fast' drugs and their money, and the locals want to be like the oh so lucky farang. The fast drugs bring the violence and Taksin put the prices up so they had to turn to crime to support their habits. The straight locals want the farang money too, and destroy the environment in building what they think the farang want.

Yes quality not quantity, I personally think the authorities have the right idea, not exact, but on the right track.

And Virgil, your so right, you should stay 'out'. What a statement!