Health Advisory

[Austhaied]

Is It Just Me, or what is that crap in the air..?

It's just you.. (just kidding, there are lots of farang like you)..

Take a look around and you'll see that it's not the hundreds of factories (that CM doesn't have), nor is it the millions of cars (like Bkk)..

The locals do burn off at this time of year due to the risk of fires, snakes, etc..

I am sure they have been doing it for a long time, so i don't think they will be too worried what "the farang" have to say on the matter.

The Aboriginies of Australia have been "burning off" the dry scrub and bush for 40,000 years.

It's just "the way things are" in nature.

There is always the airport option.

[johnsjourney]

I almost wonder who sets the 'acceptable' level, scientists, politicians, or politically promoted scientists, and against what acceptable level of health. Thai safety is as care-free as the UK's is over the top. But I don't know, don't care, I notice the difference when it reaches 50, and am one of three people in my immediate location who were unwell for the three weeks from 10th Feb when it was above 60.

For sure most people here think it's not a big problem, it would be weird if people thought it was a big problem and stayed here all through this time of year.

I'm aware there may be more arsenic in the water where I go and all the rest of it, but at least I'll be able to have a fully active day without catching a CM cough or worse I cannot get rid of for weeks. The far future is too random to care much about, hardly any of us are going to get lung cancer, even if I read it's the second worst city in the world for it.

Edited March 6, 2008 by johnsjourney

[Cyberstar]

Well, sofar nothing compares to last year. Here's a couple of graphs, handpicked from a couple of the threads running through marts 2007. For those who wonder why the old timers just can't take the new complainers seriously, have a look at threads with related titles on what currently is page 66-70 on this forum.

[johnsjourney]

Well, sofar nothing compares to last year. Here's a couple of graphs, handpicked from a couple of the threads running through marts 2007. For those who wonder why the old timers just can't take the new complainers seriously, have a look at threads with related titles on what currently is page 66-70 on this forum.

Thanks for that, interesting how the biggest increase is almost to the same day 3,4 March, but only half as bad this time. It varies a lot between the years. One can only guess why, but I know in our village the leaf burner has been banned this year after 2007, but notably not removed for the future!

I wouldn't generalise about old/new complaining/avoiding/bored though, I've been here for seven years but not many Marchs. This is still the best place I know, most of the year. I certainly wouldn't waste my time complaining!

[Pantip]

Well, sofar nothing compares to last year. Here's a couple of graphs, handpicked from a couple of the threads running through marts 2007. For those who wonder why the old timers just can't take the new complainers seriously, have a look at threads with related titles on what currently is page 66-70 on this forum.

Thanks for that, interesting how the biggest increase is almost to the same day 3,4 March, but only half as bad this time. It varies a lot between the years. One can only guess why, but I know in our village the leaf burner has been banned this year after 2007, but notably not removed for the future!

I wouldn't generalise about old/new complaining/avoiding/bored though, I've been here for seven years but not many Marchs. This is still the best place I know, most of the year. I certainly wouldn't waste my time complaining!

Perhaps we should do a survey to see who is in what camp, those who are:- Winging about the wingers or those who are Winging about the pollution.

Australians used to call new British expats ‘Winging Poms’. I wonder how many of the ‘Winging CM Expats’ are from Pommy land.

[Ulysses G.]

I did a poll on who is actually bothered by the pollution, but the Wheezing Whingers weren't too impressed by it.

They lost.

[mobile69]

I did a poll on who is actually bothered by the pollution, but the Wheezing Whingers weren't too impressed by it.

They lost.

I guess you should check your numbers. Out of 100 responses, only 25 were hardly ever bothered or never bothered by the pollution. The remaining 75 were bothered at least some of the time.

[Ulysses G.]

Does the air in Chiang Mai usually bother you?

How much?

It bothers me all the time during normal years. If I had a brain, I would move. [ 10 ] [12.50%]

It bothers me often during normal years [ 29 ] [36.25%]

It bothers me once in a while during normal years. [ 16 ] [20.00%]

It hardly ever bothers me during normal years [ 16 ] [20.00%]

It never bothers me at any time of the year [ 9 ] [11.25%]

Sorry, there were not even close to 100 responses, but less than 50% of respondents were bothered more than once in a while.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[WaiWai]

Would not the best course of action be for all of us to do our best, as individuals, to help minimize the pollution and support any campaigns/programs/etc. working towards that end ?

In my view, it's clearly (or hazily) a problem. People with children are one of the groups who take the issue more seriously, as young bodies are more susceptible to damage. The same goes for older folk, and there are plenty of those in the expat community. And all the rest of us are affected, whether we "notice" it or not.

I don't understand the denial mentality of some when it comes to pollution. *Of course* it affects tourism/business. So why not recognize the problem, work on reducing the pollutants and haze, and make CM more appealing all round ?

[Hugh Jarse]

Just been looking at the photo of Chiang Mai in The Nation newspaper. Pollution loks really bad. Any news from locals there on the extent of the smog. Hope its not as bad as last year.

[Priceless]

The present pollution level is definitely neither pleasant nor healthy. Unfortunately, there's not that much hope for the next few days as the Thai Meteorological Department forecasts very light to no winds for the next 72 hours. Being situated in a basin between mountain ridges, Chiang Mai is really dependent on wind and/or precipitation to get rid of any pollutants.

All we really can do, as WaiWai says, is to try our individual best to reduce the pollutants. Oh, maybe we should also be grateful that the situation is still infinitely better than last year's, and that we don't live in Bangkok:

Hazy days

Off-the-charts pollution in the City of Angels is making the citizens quite ill

Published on March 7, 2008

Bangkok residents are wallowing in air pollution at least twice as bad as anywhere else in the Kingdom.

People could be getting sick, the Pollution Control Depart-ment warns.

The acceptable limit for dust particles in the air is no more than 120 micrograms per cubic metre.

In peaceful Mae Hong Son, small dust particles yesterday numbered just 41 micrograms. On holiday island Phuket the figure is 43.4.

The Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Policy Office declares many parts of the capital are way above that.

It cites Din Daeng and Bang Khunthien districts as particularly bad.

Policy office boss Montri Chanachaiwiboonwat says surveys show "dust particles and smog in Bangkok are higher than most other areas".

He blames burning of agricultural land outside the city, factories and millions of vehicles.

A threat to health

The Pollution Control Depart-ment website reported yesterday's overall air quality in Din Daeng and Bang Khunthien is health threatening.

Natural Resources and Environment Minister Anong-wan Thepsuthin reckons smog is more serious in the capital than anywhere else.

She is sending technicians around the city to test levels and will declare "red zones" to alert people to the dangers. Experts say dust levels rise as the weather cools.

Met office boss Suparerk Tansriratanawong says a high-pressure ridge hovering over the country means temperatures of about one degree Celsius lower than normal until Sunday.

Daily Xpress

The newspaper also reports that this past Sunday the levels reached 205.8 at Din Daeng and 140.5 at Bang Khunthien. Yesterday's level at Samut Prakarn was 253.2.

/ Priceless

[Rasseru]

:D

[Priceless]

Just been looking at the photo of Chiang Mai in The Nation newspaper. Pollution loks really bad. Any news from locals there on the extent of the smog. Hope its not as bad as last year.

Which photo are you referring to? If you mean the one on page 2 of the "Daily Xpress", that's from Bangkok and not from Chiang Mai. Entirely different city

/ Priceless

[p1p]

I've just merged the active Smog topics into one. Frees up a bit of space on the CM Board's front page!

P

[Ulysses G.]

I don't understand the denial mentality of some when it comes to pollution. *Of course* it affects tourism/business. So why not recognize the problem, work on reducing the pollutants and haze, and make CM more appealing all round ?

We all would like to have the healthiest environment possible while preserving as many modern convieniences as possible.

Personally, I would like to see everyone riding bicycles in town and otherwise having to use low polluting public transportation. However, our hosts would not be too happy with that and it is their country and more and more resident farangs also insist on having private motorcycles and cars.

I have nothing against preventing pollution - in fact I am all for it - but what does bother me a lot is folks who blow the problem way out of proportion to the point that they scare off large numbers of visitors who probably would be bothered very little by it otherwise.

[WaiWai]

I don't understand the denial mentality of some when it comes to pollution. *Of course* it affects tourism/business. So why not recognize the problem, work on reducing the pollutants and haze, and make CM more appealing all round ?

We all would like to have the healthiest environment possible while preserving as many modern convieniences as possible.

Personally, I would like to see everyone riding bicycles in town and otherwise having to use low polluting public transportation. However, our hosts would not be too happy with that and it is their country and more and more resident farangs also insist on having private motorcycles and cars.

I have nothing against preventing pollution - in fact I am all for it - but what does bother me a lot is folks who blow the problem way out of proportion to the point that they scare off large numbers of visitors who probably would be bothered very little by it otherwise.

A good hard zap to the hip pocket nerve of the tourist business could work wonders.

The Mayor is taking part in bicycle rides to promote the use of bicycles generally and the need for bicyle lanes. So perhaps our hosts are starting to look at the longer term and the bigger picture.

[Ulysses G.]

There have been bicycle lanes on and off since I got here 20 years ago. Who remembers all the ones that went the wrong way on the big main roads like Thapae? Motorcycles would use them to go even faster and totally ignore the poor slobs riding push-bikes coming right at them!

There have even been bicycle lanes on the main streets in Bangkok, but you would have to have a death wish to use them. It is going to take a lot more than these kind of "pretending to save the environment" projects, to have any real effect on pollution here.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[mobile69]

Does the air in Chiang Mai usually bother you?

How much?

It bothers me all the time during normal years. If I had a brain, I would move. [ 10 ] [12.50%]

It bothers me often during normal years [ 29 ] [36.25%]

It bothers me once in a while during normal years. [ 16 ] [20.00%]

It hardly ever bothers me during normal years [ 16 ] [20.00%]

It never bothers me at any time of the year [ 9 ] [11.25%]

Sorry, there were not even close to 100 responses, but less than 50% of respondents were bothered more than once in a while.

This shows 100 votes, but you're right, they don't add up to 100! However you originally said the majority were not bothered. Now, it's the majority are "not bothered once in a while". Well, I'm pretty sure I voted "bothers me once in a while" & by that I mean I AM bothered by it. So that makes it 25 not bothered by air quality & 55 bothered by it once in a while or more. But, <deleted> you'll keep denying.....

[mobile69]

A good hard zap to the hip pocket nerve of the tourist business could work wonders.

Yeah, unfortunately the authorities will only take notice when there's a substantial reduction in tourist visitors. And if that means a few book shops have to close & a few tourist bars & restaurants go under, so be it, if it's for the good of the local residents. A small price to pay for current & future generations.

What amazes me is the biggest denier of the problem is centered just around the corner from Chiang Moi Rd, possibly one of the dirtiest & most polluted streets in Chiang Mai. Try walking down Chiang Moi Rd any day in the dry season & tell me CM doesn't have an air quality problem. But then again try telling a pig farmer who spends all his time with his pigs that he stinks

Another comment. Why have several threads on pollution been merged into one? Is this an attempt to make this topic seem less of an issue than it really is? Have sponsors been complaining to TV management? Why not merge all past threads on pollution into one, so that any searches on the subject show only one thread?

[mobile69]

A good hard zap to the hip pocket nerve of the tourist business could work wonders.

Yeah, unfortunately the authorities will only take notice when there's a substantial reduction in tourist visitors. And if that means a few book shops have to close & a few tourist bars & restaurants go under, so be it, if it's for the good of the local residents. A small price to pay for current & future generations.

What amazes me is the biggest denier of the problem is centered just around the corner from Chiang Moi Rd, possibly one of the dirtiest & most polluted streets in Chiang Mai. Try walking down Chiang Moi Rd any day in the dry season & tell me CM doesn't have an air quality problem. But then again try telling a pig farmer who spends all his time with his pigs that he stinks

Another comment. Why have several threads on pollution been merged into one? Is this an attempt to make this topic seem less of an issue than it really is? Have sponsors been complaining to TV management? Why not merge all past threads on pollution into one, so that any searches on the subject show only one thread?

[Rasseru]

Just had a scary thought: is it possible that air pollution could cause paranoid schizophrenia?

[mobile69]

Just had a scary thought: is it possible that air pollution could cause paranoid schizophrenia?

Another addition to the ignore list...

[Ulysses G.]

Does the air in Chiang Mai usually bother you?

How much?

It bothers me all the time during normal years. If I had a brain, I would move. [ 10 ] [12.50%]

It bothers me often during normal years [ 29 ] [36.25%]

It bothers me once in a while during normal years. [ 16 ] [20.00%]

It hardly ever bothers me during normal years [ 16 ] [20.00%]

It never bothers me at any time of the year [ 9 ] [11.25%]

Sorry, there were not even close to 100 responses, but less than 50% of respondents were bothered more than once in a while.

This shows 100 votes, but you're right, they don't add up to 100! However you originally said the majority were not bothered. Now, it's the majority are "not bothered once in a while". Well, I'm pretty sure I voted "bothers me once in a while" & by that I mean I AM bothered by it. So that makes it 25 not bothered by air quality & 55 bothered by it once in a while or more. But, <deleted> you'll keep denying.....

Are you putting words in my mouth? I never said that no one was bothered at all, but once in a while over a period of several years is more than acceptable to me.

I also voted "bothers me once in a while", but broken traffic lights or getting a carton of sour milk or the electricity going out also bother me once in a while, but, so what, not enough to become obsessed about it. I'm not going to leave town because of a minor irritant every now and then.

The traffic bothers me every single day, but I haven't left Chiang Mai for Antarctica yet and I don't intend to.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Another comment. Why have several threads on pollution been merged into one? Is this an attempt to make this topic seem less of an issue than it really is? Have sponsors been complaining to TV management? Why not merge all past threads on pollution into one, so that any searches on the subject show only one thread?

Somebody is losing it.

[zorro1]

I cannot blame CM for everything but with air quality as poor as it is (and its getting worse apparantly)..I am sure it has not helped his cause down the years.

What can WE do guys?

We could all start wearing face masks and tell everybody why we're doing it. When tourists come to town and see all foreigners wearing face masks, there'll be more of them likely to wear one themselves.

When all foreigners (particularly the tourist ones) are wearing face masks ... well, at least: those fractions of influential persons - who do concider air polution a serious problem - will have some ammunition against the dark forces in power.

I like the idea, but the reasoning doesn't go along with what I know of Asian thinking. More likely, they'll claim that this place is so special that the foreigners will suffer anything to be here, then raise the price of face masks.

Yes but they will quickly become trendy and street vendors will start to sell face condom, velly cheap

[Priceless]

A good hard zap to the hip pocket nerve of the tourist business could work wonders.

Yeah, unfortunately the authorities will only take notice when there's a substantial reduction in tourist visitors. And if that means a few book shops have to close & a few tourist bars & restaurants go under, so be it, if it's for the good of the local residents. A small price to pay for current & future generations.

What amazes me is the biggest denier of the problem is centered just around the corner from Chiang Moi Rd, possibly one of the dirtiest & most polluted streets in Chiang Mai. Try walking down Chiang Moi Rd any day in the dry season & tell me CM doesn't have an air quality problem. But then again try telling a pig farmer who spends all his time with his pigs that he stinks

Another comment. Why have several threads on pollution been merged into one? Is this an attempt to make this topic seem less of an issue than it really is? Have sponsors been complaining to TV management? Why not merge all past threads on pollution into one, so that any searches on the subject show only one thread?

I take it you are not earning your living from a bookshop, bar or restaurant Neither am I, but I can understand if those who are get upset by the number of posts trying to paint a picture of Chiang Mai as an unliveable/unvisitable place, e.g. the nonsensical post a while ago about CM being the world's most polluted city. Informing is good, but rumour-mongering in a way that will hurt many people's (not just farangs) livelihood is definitely not!

A short clip from today's The Nation:

It may be a danger to breathe

Cool weather is being blamed for the increase in dust particles in the air

Published on March 8, 2008

As many people across the country are enjoying cooler temperatures, the Pollution Control Department has warned that unusual weather often comes with a health risk.

"It's noticeable that when the weather cools down and there's morning fog, the amount of small dust particles soars above safety limits," director-general Supat Wangwongwatana said yesterday.

The acceptable limit for dust particles smaller than 10 microns is no more than 120 micrograms per cubic metre of air. According to yesterday's checks, Bang-kok's Huai Khwang district saw dust particles soaring to 206.4 micrograms. Samut Prakan had around 243.2 micrograms.

In Ayutthaya, the amount of small dust particles yesterday stood at around 254.8 micrograms. In the North, Lampang recorded 181.2 and Chiang Mai 141.

Supat hopes air quality will improve next month when summer starts.

Daily Xpress

BTW, the figure for Chiang Mai the 24 hours ending at 9:00 AM today was 105.2, a significant improvement from the last two days.

/ Priceless

Edited March 8, 2008 by Priceless

[johnsjourney]

I take it you are not earning your living from a bookshop, bar or restaurant Neither am I, but I can understand if those who are get upset by the number of posts trying to paint a picture of Chiang Mai as an unliveable/unvisitable place, e.g. the nonsensical post a while ago about CM being the world's most polluted city. Informing is good, but rumour-mongering in a way that will hurt many people's (not just farangs) livelihood is definitely not!

A short clip from today's The Nation:

It may be a danger to breathe

Cool weather is being blamed for the increase in dust particles in the air

Published on March 8, 2008

As many people across the country are enjoying cooler temperatures, the Pollution Control Department has warned that unusual weather often comes with a health risk.

"It's noticeable that when the weather cools down and there's morning fog, the amount of small dust particles soars above safety limits," director-general Supat Wangwongwatana said yesterday.

The acceptable limit for dust particles smaller than 10 microns is no more than 120 micrograms per cubic metre of air. According to yesterday's checks, Bang-kok's Huai Khwang district saw dust particles soaring to 206.4 micrograms. Samut Prakan had around 243.2 micrograms.

In Ayutthaya, the amount of small dust particles yesterday stood at around 254.8 micrograms. In the North, Lampang recorded 181.2 and Chiang Mai 141.

Supat hopes air quality will improve next month when summer starts.

Daily Xpress

BTW, the figure for Chiang Mai the 24 hours ending at 9:00 AM today was 105.2, a significant improvement from the last two days.

/ Priceless

No rumours here that I can remember, some of us really have been getting mildly unwell, or avoiding doing things to stay healthy, and some really are leaving at this time of year. Last year for example I flew out on the morning of the first whiteout, though that won't happen this year as it's not so bad, hence the feeling that there is some over reacting.

It is a very volatile number, but accurate it seems, I thought 1st and 2nd March was a great improvement, down to 50, then it doubled.

No big deal, not trying to change anything here,

suggest any concerned (though I don't think anyone is) they might be losing business at this time of year when it should be peak season lobby the powers that be to, say, actually enforce the bans when it does get above the accepted safety level. That might have avoided a large out of control fire in our estate yesterday that needed several fire engines to help protect a nearby house. Though why they didn't cut the land just around their house I have no idea.

I would have voted 'bothers me once in a while' too, since I wouldn't let anything bother me more than that.

[Cyberstar]

... suggest any concerned (though I don't think anyone is) they might be losing business at this time of year when it should be peak season lobby the powers that be to, say, actually enforce the bans when it does get above the accepted safety level. That might have avoided a large out of control fire in our estate yesterday that needed several fire engines to help protect a nearby house...

Sounds like a sensible consideration, here. Marts actually should be a peak month, touristic wise. Why wouldn't this region want to show it's neatest side throughout the whole of the period where it (otherwise) shows it's best, climate/nature wise?

Let's say the peasants actually don't have any other - easily implementable - option, than putting a match to the scrubs once a year in order to make a survival. What could be the reasons for not making the burns in May-June?

As far as my (very few years of) experience with this area tell, nothing that could possible resemble anything worthy the label "rainy season" comes around until July - so, it should still be easy to burn whatever you do wish to burn in the low season months of Mai/June, while - at the same time - the few raindrops that might, or might not, have falled April-July are too few to possibly be able to do anything "worse" than making it easier to prevent wild fires from going loose. (For the newcomers, wondering why things aren't (yet) as bad as last year: We (still) don't have a situation were huge and numerous forest wildfires are pulsing out smoke throughout the whole region (and by 'whole region' I don't mean the suburbans of Chiang Mai - I mean the huge oval covering Myanmar, South Western China, Laos and Northern Thailand.

(For the rare, genuinely interested newcomer: In the related threads that ran throughout Marts last year there were a bunch of links to satellite photos clearly telling that the problem really wasn't anything that could possibly be improved by the mayor of Chiang Mai, together with the whole lot of Chiang Mai forum posters, swearing to not use anything but bicycles. Live links are dead and gone, but there might be some hardcopy graphics that've survived. There even was one satellite photo that showed the problem weren't confined to South East Asia, but that the same kind of wildfires took place in Northern Africa and the Venezuela/Columbia Area). Surprise, surprise (to some) - those god dammed peasants burn scrubs all over the world).

Never mind, here's a question to the insight fulls: What do you think could be a hindrance of shifting the peak-month of burning season from Marts to June? (Besides the usual problems with changing old habits)?

[Priceless]

I take it you are not earning your living from a bookshop, bar or restaurant Neither am I, but I can understand if those who are get upset by the number of posts trying to paint a picture of Chiang Mai as an unliveable/unvisitable place, e.g. the nonsensical post a while ago about CM being the world's most polluted city. Informing is good, but rumour-mongering in a way that will hurt many people's (not just farangs) livelihood is definitely not!

/ Priceless

No rumours here that I can remember, some of us really have been getting mildly unwell, or avoiding doing things to stay healthy, and some really are leaving at this time of year. Last year for example I flew out on the morning of the first whiteout, though that won't happen this year as it's not so bad, hence the feeling that there is some over reacting.

It is a very volatile number, but accurate it seems, I thought 1st and 2nd March was a great improvement, down to 50, then it doubled.

No big deal, not trying to change anything here,

suggest any concerned (though I don't think anyone is) they might be losing business at this time of year when it should be peak season lobby the powers that be to, say, actually enforce the bans when it does get above the accepted safety level. That might have avoided a large out of control fire in our estate yesterday that needed several fire engines to help protect a nearby house. Though why they didn't cut the land just around their house I have no idea.

I would have voted 'bothers me once in a while' too, since I wouldn't let anything bother me more than that.

When I mentioned rumour-mongering, I was of course not referring to you or anybody else feeling unwell. I have never disputed that a number of people feel that way and that some (e.g. asthmatics) really get ill. What peeves me is people who come up with presumably factual posts that state "Chiang Mai has the world record in air pollution" or words to that effect. This is seriously untrue and serves no other purpose than to scare people away from this lovely city. Chiang Mai would certainly do well with less polluted air, but is not by a long shot even the most polluted city in Thailand

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

From Chiang Mai Mail Vol. VII No. 9

Chiang Mai to host ASEAN meeting on long-term smoke eradication

5 country working committee to be established

Staff Reporter

During a recent meeting between the 5 Lower Mekong Delta countries who are party to ASEAN’s convention on smoke pollution, an agreement was reached regarding the formation of a group working committee which will cooperate between countries on this issue and its possible solutions. The 5 countries concerned are Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and Myanmar. According to Suthak Wangwongwattana, the Director General of Thailand’s Department of Pollution Control, all 5 countries involved will cooperate with each other on smoke pollution issues, and will submit an analysis of their individual problems and proposed methods of eradication for discussion at a meeting to be held later this year in Chiang Mai. Suthak stated that the total control of pollution by smoke, whether it is caused by agricultural activities or by forest fires, is of the greatest importance and is relevant to all the five Mekong River Delta countries.