Trump signs executive 'free speech' order for U.S. colleges

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, Thomas33399 said:

Good one Donald! The greatest President the USA has ever known! All the way mate!

Donald supports your right to spread this kind of falsehood ????

[pedro01]

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Even if your assertion were right, there is nothing in the Constitution that bans individuals from, how was it youput it, ‘drowning out’ the opinions of others, provided a) they do not do so in the capacity of a government employee, b) they do not do so with violence.

 

a) - Dealt with under the first amendment.

b) Dealt with by rafts of laws against violence.

 

#Bone tossed to CULT45.

 

This has nothing whatsoever to do with this topic.

 

Nice attempted diversion though.

[farcanell]

???????????? first amendment this that the other.... the people’s rights to free speech... what? Wait.... can someone explain this to me (I expect that this will be by citing case law)

 

the first ammendment protects the people from congressional censorship.... it does not grant free speech, but rather prevents governmental persecution of citizens who speak out.

 

universities are not a congressional body, therefore universities (or other non governmental bodies) can self determine what is and is not said within their jurisdiction (campus), according to their own charters.

 

So... it appears to me that trump is using executive orders, to circumvent private institutions rights (and previously accepted charters and standards of practices), by disallowing them to censor speakers on their campus’s, which is in effect, governmental tampering with the first ammendment.

 

Seems easier to simply nationalize all of the education facilities and be done with it.

 

and.... if the government can tamper with the first, then it can tamper with the second

[Krataiboy]

A much-needed antidote to left-wing fascist thugs who use violence and intimidation to no-platform and silence anyone politically to the right of Karl Marx.

 

The problem is arguably worse in the UK, where free speech is not protected by a written constitution. To their shame, a Tory administration conspires with the forces of law to ignore blatant Antifa aggression and bullying against conservative thinkers and speakers.

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Benmart]

10 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

A pathological liar, who screams fake news all day long and spreads hatred as his preferred opinion, is talking about freedom of speech. What a sad angry man he is. 

What are your credentials in diagnosing pathological mental disorders? Define "screams fake news all day long..." please. There are at least 12 hours of daylight in many places. Is that what you mean? Quite a feat if so. Freedom of speech protects even those who spout their own brand of intolerance, while pointing out the same intolerance they preceive in others.

[hugocnx]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

Just look at all the little haters trying to sow divison for their master 

You tug, they tug....are you any different being from the 'other' side?

[farcanell]

9 minutes ago, Benmart said:

What are your credentials in diagnosing pathological mental disorders? Define "screams fake news all day long..." please. There are at least 12 hours of daylight in many places. Is that what you mean? Quite a feat if so. Freedom of speech protects even those who spout their own brand of intolerance, while pointing out the same intolerance they preceive in others.

Lmao... what are your credentials? ????????????????.... being in possession of either eyes or ears would qualify anyone to make that comment.

 

Oh... a day is defined as a 24 hour period, usually from midnight of one till midnight of the next.... it’s nothing to do with the amount of time the sun is shining.

 

freedom of speech... it’s interesting to note that a lot of Americans condemned that US jihadist woman (a couple of weeks ago), because she called for violence against her fellow countryfolk, demanding her citizenship be revoked.... yet now champion freedom of speech in this thread... not saying you did or would... it’s just interesting to note a lack of consistency from some.

[hugocnx]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

Yup I despise racism hate and divison I defend the USA and what she stands for I love my country for what she is and for and the opportunity she  brings 

Would you still defend the USA after the left may have taken over and have done their thing (eg putting their will on the people). Wow, that's liberal.

[GinBoy2]

Hmm, this is one where I strangely find myself agreeing with the Donald, words I never thought I would say!

 

I went to UC Berkeley back in the 70's, past it's height of student protest, but still pretty active. At that time there was a lot of debate, left and right, very heated but debate all the same.

For me at least that debate in some part made me the man I became, because I was exposed to such a wide range of ideas and opinions

 

I have become distressed over recent years that this polarization of society has created this self censorship of thought on college campuses, which in my mind diminishes the whole society.

 

For me at least that's is, or at least was, one of the great gifts of a college education

[hugocnx]

5 hours ago, Mac98 said:

So sayeth a man who likely cheers when Trump urges his supporters to punch and throw out any protester at his rallies.

No one protesting silently at Trump rallies is removed; it's about the bloody noise these left looney's make and disrupt a peaceful gathering.???? 

[longtom]

 

The left have long tried to drown out other opinions being expressed. They know it it helpful to their goal of a totalitarian state in which only one doctrine is allowed.

WT. ?! Oh forget it.

 

Trump cult.

 

Sent from my SM-J250F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[DrDave]

I'm reminded of the 1990s when I lived near Berkeley, California - the self-described bastion of free speech in the US.

Yup, they had free speech alright - as long as your speech aligned with the community's "progressive" political and social leanings. Any alternative views were not tolerated and summarily shut down.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, hugocnx said:

Would you still defend the USA after the left may have taken over and have done their thing (eg putting their will on the people). Wow, that's liberal.

Some people just don’t get it donald calls the media fake news unless they suck up to him and his views this is the guy that in 2 short years has turned the USA into a pariah and laughing stock among nations has wrecked the crappy health care system run up the deficit and gave his rich cronies a nice big tax break and many just lap it up it’s just amazing that’s just for starters it’s not about right or left it’s more about rite or wrong moral or immoral personally I want to live and support morality and good 

[Shaunduhpostman]

Free speech is more often than not permitted. Kinda weird if people have to look to Uncle Donny to give them permission. I thought being right wing was all about being tough and independent of government. As a side note, I find it hard to swallow that Uncle Donny genuinely would stick up for free speech, that he would say stick up for people who wanted to present the facts on the background of the situation in Venezuela, in contradiction to the bald faced lies that the MAduro election was illegitimate and that opposition was locked out etc to take one example, or say the many decades long history of US disallowing democratically elected "leftist" governments, even bombing their central governments to kill whole cabinets and prime ministers, or god forbid, even questioning or discussing the 9/11 events and the compromised rights of privacy and the radically boosted powers and rights of corporations and intelligence agencies from that followed in the wake of those events. Not much allowance in this world for say freedom of speech and critique of Trump's choice to lead the regime change in Venezuela, the already convicted war criminal Eliot Abrams. Seems to me he would just as soon label people who wanted to talk about those topics a national security threat if push came to shove, if they became too well presented, publicised too many uncomfortable facts, were omni-present, and popular and began organizing real political platforms around campuses that meant actually something other than "Why can't I use the N word?" or whatever the problem right wing students have that they can't talk about. Groups that created a real opposition with platforms that might say something along the lines of: "The CIA, NSA need to be drastically curtailed, the meddling of these agencies and the war they have waged on their own people for decades is not worth the so-called security they claim to provide, the events of 9/11 need a thorough investigation, the war criminals who duped with the complicity of the media the entirety of NATO into a war for oil on false premises need to face international war crimes trials and if found guilty punished. The corruption of the US political system needs to be rolled back with no corporate contributions allowed and drastic penalties and effective monitoring of government organizations and their funding activities. People's privacy must be respected and must not be used a means to fund a new world economy based on data mining people's privacy, an economy that benefits almost exclusively hidden operators with no public oversight. That until these serious flaws are addressed there can never even be so much as a hope for democracy and there will never again be healthy economies or ecosystems." No, people who deal with exposing all that, the Julan Assanges and Chelsea Manning's etc are criminals for dealing in such realities, yet Trump and the media he is supported by do better at their game of creating pinko hobgoblin leftists and socialists out of thin air. Most of the meaningful critiques and positions of the day are either ignored, derided, or when push comes to shove called out as security threats. Clearly Trump and his ilk disallow much free speech and have no right to talk about and put on this ludicrous mummery about protecting students' freedom of speech. It is rather tiresome and nauseating this kind of disengenuous badly done hoaxing.

 

 

[usviphotography]

9 hours ago, farcanell said:

universities are not a congressional body, therefore universities (or other non governmental bodies) can self determine what is and is not said within their jurisdiction (campus), according to their own charters.

 

So... it appears to me that trump is using executive orders, to circumvent private institutions rights (and previously accepted charters and standards of practices), by disallowing them to censor speakers on their campus’s, which is in effect, governmental tampering with the first ammendment.

 

Seems easier to simply nationalize all of the education facilities and be done with it.

 

and.... if the government can tamper with the first, then it can tamper with the second

Under Incorporation Doctrine, the 1st Amendment has been ruled applicable to the states so with respect to state Funded Universities the 1st Amendment already applies. And as far as "private" Universities go, they utilize the Federal Student Loan program, which is the cash cow of the University System. Trump can not sue a private University under the 1st Amendment the way a state University can be sued, but he can attach strings to that Federal Money. Obama did actually did the same thing to force Universities to adopt his own rather unique (and ultimately disastrous) interpretation of Title IX with respect to sex crime investigations. 

[Redline]

20 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 He is doing this to finally protect the rights of conservative leaning students. There have been way too many violent attacks against students for as little as wearing a red hat. Now it is time for both sides of the debate to be heard, it has been totally one sided for decades now and the country has suffered because of this. Another historic move by Trump, great to see this finally happen. 

 

 

Even though it has no effect on anything ????

[Redline]

10 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

A much-needed antidote to left-wing fascist thugs who use violence and intimidation to no-platform and silence anyone politically to the right of Karl Marx.

 

The problem is arguably worse in the UK, where free speech is not protected by a written constitution. To their shame, a Tory administration conspires with the forces of law to ignore blatant Antifa aggression and bullying against conservative thinkers and speakers.

 

If you’re that scared, go back under the bed ???? I have a blankey you can have 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Redline

[Krataiboy]

7 hours ago, Redline said:

If you’re that scared, go back under the bed ???? I have a blankey you can have 

I fear not for myself, but free speech. Without the safety valve of open civil discourse, societies tend to polarise (as is happening now in the UK and across the West) and become dysfunctional and violent. 

 

Thanks for the kind offer, but I suggest you hang on to your blankey. The way things are heading you are going to need it.

[Nyezhov]

15 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I went to UC Berkeley back in the 70's, past it's height of student protest, but still pretty active. At that time there was a lot of debate, left and right, very heated but debate all the same.

For me at least that debate in some part made me the man I became, because I was exposed to such a wide range of ideas and opinions

Yeah I hate to sound like my Dad, but back in my day, a Nazi or a Communist/Socialist spoke, and you confronted him with his crimes caused by his ideology or the silliness of his ideology  and made him look the fool. Why shout down someone that has nothing valid to say.

[KhunFred]

Trump has an amazing knack for obfuscation. There is no "crisis" dealing with free speech for conservatives on campus, practically the opposite is true. An incredible number of universities and colleges get grants from the Koch brothers, including the university I retired from. Another "fake crisis" generated by the Trump fog machine.

 

[Redline]

16 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I fear not for myself, but free speech. Without the safety valve of open civil discourse, societies tend to polarise (as is happening now in the UK and across the West) and become dysfunctional and violent. 

 

Thanks for the kind offer, but I suggest you hang on to your blankey. The way things are heading you are going to need it.

What they are proposing, does nothing that isn’t already covered by the constitution and multiple other laws.  It’s game playing, plain and simple.  If you observe, it is DT I hat is attempting to end press and other freedoms.  Hate speech is banned in most states by law.  Trump would love to strengthen libel laws, as he has mentioned many times, along with press freedoms.  He even wants Congress to look into Saturday Night Live ????  but not Fox ????

The fact anyone takes this person that doesn’t read, use a computer, listen, and has been bankrupt so many times is a bit baffling-he can’t even speak proper English ????

[Nyezhov]

15 minutes ago, Redline said:

Hate speech is banned in most states by law.

Name one statute that constituionally bans "hate speech". 

 

Name  one action Trump has taken that has been violative of the first amendment.

 

That will be a cricket chirper

Edited March 23, 2019 by Nyezhov

[Redline]

14 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Name one statute that constituionally bans "hate speech". 

 

Name  one action Trump has taken that has been violative of the first amendment.

 

That will be a cricket chirper

There are laws, not anything in a constitution ????

 

read again when when you are sober-nice you stocked up on alcohol, and good you are not voting tomorrow ????

[johnnykak]

i like the guy- theres no hate speech only speech. so i guess the usa doesn't have laws and the only law is the constitution lol.  is the bill of rights included? lol. these guys try and reinvent the wheel every day- its like having an argument with children. 

[candide]

There does not seem to be much objective ground for Trumps initiative. There are only a dozen of cases every year for around 3000 universities and the number has not particularly increased in previous years. Another fake crisis!

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/21/18275839/trump-free-speech-executive-order-turning-point-usa

 

Moreover, the most obvious free speech violations are not particularly related to right-wing politics and are distributed among a large diversity of topics

https://www.thefire.org/the-10-worst-colleges-for-free-speech-2018/

 

https://www.thefire.org/10-worst-colleges-for-free-speech-2019/

 

[watcharacters]

On 3/22/2019 at 7:28 AM, welovesundaysatspace said:

A pathological liar, who screams fake news all day long and spreads hatred as his preferred opinion, is talking about freedom of speech. What a sad angry man he is. 

 

Please tell us whom you believe.      Are there any journalists you think are truthful?

 

What news sources would you recommend that are trustworthy?

 

 

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, johnnykak said:

i like the guy- theres no hate speech only speech. so i guess the usa doesn't have laws and the only law is the constitution lol.  is the bill of rights included? lol. these guys try and reinvent the wheel every day- its like having an argument with children. 

Constitutionally speaking, there is no such thing as "hate speech". There is such a thing as speech that it is hateful, but like all other speech, it is protected under the Constitution.

Edited March 24, 2019 by lannarebirth

[candide]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

Please tell us whom you believe.      Are there any journalists you think are truthful?

 

What news sources would you recommend that are trustworthy?

 

 

On this topic, here you are. All cases are listed and you can check by yourself that there are a large diversity of motives invoked in these cases, and that conservative or right-wing initiatives are not particularly targeted. It's actually far from it, as this motives appears with a low frequency.

In brief, another fake crisis!

https://www.thefire.org/cases/

[Krataiboy]

11 hours ago, Redline said:

What they are proposing, does nothing that isn’t already covered by the constitution and multiple other laws.  It’s game playing, plain and simple.  If you observe, it is DT I hat is attempting to end press and other freedoms.  Hate speech is banned in most states by law.  Trump would love to strengthen libel laws, as he has mentioned many times, along with press freedoms.  He even wants Congress to look into Saturday Night Live ????  but not Fox ????

The fact anyone takes this person that doesn’t read, use a computer, listen, and has been bankrupt so many times is a bit baffling-he can’t even speak proper English ????

Yeah, but. . .  his heart is in the right place.