Help please - I am loosing it soon!

[xtrnuno41]

9 hours ago, Crossy said:

Before jumping up and down we need to know exactly what PEA is offering for your 650k (or whatever). Are they offering a transformer?

 

Aluminium cable is much cheaper than copper for your overhead, but you need to change to copper for the underground section.

 

From your OP.

Bungalows:-

• 3.5kW water heaters (with diversity we can say 7kW)
• Say 3 x 9000 BTU air 2700W
• Assorted TV lights etc another 1500W

Total bungalows 11.2kw = 50A

 

House:-

• 2 x 6kW heaters (6kW with diversity)
• 3 x 12,000 BTU air (2.4kW assuming a max of two at a time)
• Assorted TV lights etc another 1500W

Total house 9.9kW = 45A

 

You are not going to run all that on a 15/45 and you may not be able to get a 30/100. Time to go 3-phase, 15/45 will easily do the trick.

 

Is there 220V 3-phase at the road? 

 

 

i see you assumed 3,5 kW heaters in bungalows? The op didnt tell and is only talking about 6 kW heaters in his house (also bungalows?). If thats so then power consumption is way higher, everything running at the same time. Then you already have 18 kW= 79 A

3 phase with zero would be wise to feed all. Then you dont need trafo. 

I dont see why the cable cant be underground all the way, however have a right cable with cable (armour) protection of course copper cables are the best.

Of course with the right diameter. Too low and the cable heats up, as well with the choice of material of the wire. You will also have powerdrops. Better a bit oversized then. 

[Crossy]

Check if PEA will do you a 15/45 3-phase supply with no transformer, that's likely what the neighbours have (have a look at their meter, it should say).

 

Take my calculations if you wish, it's a bit rough and ready but will be the right ball park.

 

If they baulk at that ask what the biggest you can have with no transformer is. Also ask if you can have two 15/45 single-phase supplies (some offices will, some won't to a single chanote), run the houes off one and the bungalows the other.

 

Wire your house for 3-phase, treat it as 3 single-phase supplies. Run one bungalow on each phase as a sub-main from the house.

 

The reason I used 3.5kW for the bungalow showers, is simply that this is the most common size used here.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

"But do they really think we are absolutely stupid?"

 

Not stupid, rich.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, boonrawdcnx said:

I mean the guy who showed up today must think we are total idiots - we told the OrBorDor that we thought that 300,000 was a bit over the top she then tells us she knows a guy in the PEA and she will give him a call.

Then the guy shows up and quotes us more than twice as much!?

Why what he think we would pay him 640,000 baht for something another company would do for 300,000 ?
I just can’t see any logic in this - Why would he even bother to come and see us and quote his outrageous price?



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To them you are just the rich farang.

[Fruit Trader]

56 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

That would make a house costing 500,000 1.5 million. I am an electrical installer and the cost should only be from the roadside not from a transformer station. I cannot comprehend this Thai pricing system. The most it would cost for a supply of 50Amp SWA cable buried for a distance up to 100 Metres would be no more than 60K to 90K. With meter installed. 

The OP states his building is 300M from road where there is a low voltage three phase source. Given the load required and possible limited capacity of existing low voltage its likely high voltage lines and transformer are the most cost effective solution.

[mikecha]

20 hours ago, moontang said:

they gave my brother 800 m, and 200 amp service for free in the US, underground.

the guy is not asking what u get in Usa he asking for Thailand.

if u nothing to offer why bother 

[mikecha]

We did   it another way  

got a guy to run all the poles and the wires   to the  distrabution boards Ingoing

then right to the street left enough cables to connect to the meter  

maybe an option is every house a cable and a meter on the street 

so total 4 runs 4 meters 

  

[oobar]

21 hours ago, Rimmer said:

I paid ten years ago 800,000 baht for 12 poles, three  (22kva I think) HT lines and a 50kva transformer.

I got the same set up (three phase) but with 22 poles (covering 1.1 km) for a total of a little over 450k five years ago.  The same transformer was 75k, included in the total.  I thought that was expensive.

[millymoopoo]

Of course they are trying to take advantage of you,. Farangs are just cash cows to them..!

Just get a local electrician to run a 100amp 3 phase underground supply up your 300m driveway to the street and make the connection to the grid there. Which is where they will put the meters, probably 3 single phase meters. Use thick 100amp 3 phase cable to avoid voltage loss over the 300m.

1 phase for the house and 2 for each bungalow, or as the main house looks to have a bigger load 2 phases to the house and 1 split between the bungalows.

Then all you will be paying PEA is for a normal house connection.

[upu2]

21 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Our resident "spark" Mod Crossy may be along to give a qualified opinion. I do know that a single supply max is generally 45a  typical home supply is 15a..

 

You can get the 45A supply, I know we did. The cost wasn't that expensive but we have A'/C in every room and on that basis they provided it

[Formaleins]

22 hours ago, johng said:

It seems to me you have more than just a "regular house" more like a small "resort" did they quote you for a 3 phase supply ?

Even a 3 phase supply is no where near that price. The normal poles they use are under 4K Baht, spaced every 30 metres would only need 11 or 12, so that is about 50K max. Price of cable and at most a transformer, would be no where near that sort of price.

[xtrnuno41]

Here is a table , only to show you about ground cable  

There are some more factors in it, but this would give you an idea.

This is cable Ymvkas, pvc and armoured ground cable. You can see power and length in table, so what you need in diameter, power and length. Of course this a cable with copper wiring.

The deeper in the ground , the more cooler it is. As resistance of the cable grows with temperature, this is with 15 degrees C in ground. Also with 3 phases spread the load.

The bungalows have each about 8kW and maybe your house some more.

 

[LukKrueng]

21 hours ago, moontang said:

they gave my brother 800 m, and 200 amp service for free in the US, underground.

they charged my friend A$50,000 for running 20metres of lines into his property in Australia. How does this information helps the op??

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

they charged my friend A$50,000 for running 20metres of lines into his property in Australia. How does this information helps the op??

It may be cheaper to run a line from Australia ?

[fruitman]

22 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

200k thb was for the transformer, that is indeed totally over the top tho (capacity wise)....

Those transformers explode on a regular basis, i've seen it many times even when i was under a huge one at a mall...

 

So i would be happy if mine was over the top capacity wise.

[Liverpudlian]

Solar panels mate, with wall to wall sunshine what can go wrong.

[moontang]

4 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

they charged my friend A$50,000 for running 20metres of lines into his property in Australia. How does this information helps the op??

Perhaps, your grandma forgot to teach you that energy and utilities, and their infrastructures, are global businesses, and it is always wise to establish baselines when dealing with these grown-up matters.  Utilities are tightly regulated here, just like the US...copper wire?  yep, it's global...transformer?  another global commodity.  But, while one can know what stuff costs, it is wise to tread lightly.  Always seems to be a few utility guys looking for side jobs.  The same brother got a road crew to repave his driveway for a song.

[bluejets]

Placing the house 300 metres from the supply line is the biggest mistake you can make when it comes to the mains supply cabling and cost.

Because of the long distance combined with the large loading, cabling must be sized to limit the voltage drop over the length of the run.

Whether aerials or underground, this always means a large cost involved.

Only thing you can do to keep overall cost down for now and the future is get the loading down.

Solar will help but again, at a cost as there is no subsidy scheme in Thailand as far as I know.

 

[boonrawdcnx]

The OP states his building is 300M from road where there is a low voltage three phase source. Given the load required and possible limited capacity of existing low voltage its likely high voltage lines and transformer are the most cost effective solution.

There is already a high voltage line on the main road.



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[boonrawdcnx]

Placing the house 300 metres from the supply line is the biggest mistake you can make when it comes to the mains supply cabling and cost.
Because of the long distance combined with the large loading, cabling must be sized to limit the voltage drop over the length of the run.
Whether aerials or underground, this always means a large cost involved.
Only thing you can do to keep overall cost down for now and the future is get the loading down.
Solar will help but again, at a cost as there is no subsidy scheme in Thailand as far as I know.
 

I have already looked into solar - but the costs in this country are prohibitive and you can only always partly power your home.
By the time ROI kicks in you will very likely have to start to replace components of your solar system.


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[boonrawdcnx]

Last year I had to have 6 huge concrete poles a 30 KVA single phase transformer the total cost was 250,000 payable up front. This was done by my local PEA for 3 phase they wanted 750,000 in the end I decided to spend the money on using everything would be inverter air cons ,fridges, water heaters,  wash machine tumble dryer Mr Ken fans which convert from ac to dc outside I have 20 lights which don’t even amount to 100 watt even my swimming pool pump is inverter based all this cover 2 properties and as I said I use a single phase 30 kVA  I also installed a safe - T - cut before the main fuse boxes as Thailand is renowned for bad electricity and when I have had bad electric it’s cut my electric off with no issues
i have to assume they are trying to sell you 3 phase system which I don’t think you need as I said they tried it with me in the end I sat down with my contractor and worked out average consumption use .

Thanks for that!
I am waiting now for the quote of the guys who came and checked yesterday.

And yes all the air cons will be inverter type as well as fridges all lights are LED.
Will get a solar pump for the pool and depending on the quote will then seriously look into an on / off grid solar system. The quotes I received for solar systems have been between 260.000 Baht on grid and 600.000 Baht off grid with inverter/ battery backup.
At the prices they quoted me so far it would also make sense to instal solar water heaters.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions so far!



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[boonrawdcnx]

Again thanks to all for the advise received on here.
To keep the people interested in this post updated the latest quotation from our builders friend who works for the PEA in the city of Chiang Mai was 360.000 Baht for a 3phase connection including a 50Amp transformer - but will end up to be rather 400.000 I guess.

Looking at the detailed proposal and the individual prices for items and comparing them it is still quite overpriced but at least not the total rip of price of 640.000 Baht from the local PEA.
We will have another meeting today and work out the details.







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[boonrawdcnx]

Placing the house 300 metres from the supply line is the biggest mistake you can make when it comes to the mains supply cabling and cost.
Because of the long distance combined with the large loading, cabling must be sized to limit the voltage drop over the length of the run.
Whether aerials or underground, this always means a large cost involved.
Only thing you can do to keep overall cost down for now and the future is get the loading down.
Solar will help but again, at a cost as there is no subsidy scheme in Thailand as far as I know.
 

It was surely no mistake placing the house there - we have created our own little “island” in the middle of a rice field with amazing 360° views.


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