My 10th retirement visa renewal

[nongsung]

25 minutes ago, Jim7777 said:

 

Regarding “drawing” the map to your house from Immigration it would be easier for you if you just printed it off of Google maps then you won’t have to worry about them not accepting it.   

Tried that (Google Maps) and that was rejected years ago. Haven’t tried it again...

[from the home of CC]

18 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

What would you be saying if your wife had to do 90 day reports in Canada and your IO was about 60 miles away?

I'd say it would be the cost of choosing to reside in Canada. Due to the thousands of immigration scams perpetrated in the country, obtaining a permanent residence card was a total nightmare and took years. Sound familiar?

[nongsung]

4 hours ago, thecaveman said:

Must be a different Immigration office in Mukdahan than the one I am using frequently. I never found it difficult to deal with any of the officers including the new ones. I have always been treated in a friendly, respectful and absolutely correct way.

Good for you but unfortunately my experience differs.

A couple of years ago (male staff) it was pleasant, jokes were

made and it was a breeze. In and out in minutes (90 days) and a little longer with the extension.

[Luckysilk]

59 minutes ago, Max77 said:

Before moving here 3 yrs ago I lived in Colombia for 5 yrs.  Ecuador for 2 yrs. And Panama , Mexico , Costa Rica as well.  I came here to los after a yr. in Cambodia.  And I'll be honest the moment I stepped off the plane i didn't  feel welcome. In time i  learned and that foreigners arent really liked here esp caucasion. They are tolerated.  BUT THEIR MONEY IS VERY WELCOME. Its obvious by the b.s games , hoops and hurdles  immigration is constantly pulling . I know at least ten people who have left and more that are packing including myself.. of course im gonna miss this wonderful Chiang Mai weather 

Leaving for vietnam for a few months and then  Oaxaca Mexico.. In Mexico /Panama/Ecuador/ Colombia you dont have to deal with this garbage and I can keep MY money where I WANT to.

You sound like my brothe, however he did it the other way. He and his Colombian partner met in Hong Kong and then moved to Vietnam, back to Colombia (hated it), Panama (acceptable) & Costa Rica for the last 4 years. He would actually stay there however his partner is sick and tired of Central and South America. 

 

Their best friends own a small B&B in Morocco (Tangier's) and they've spent the last 3 months there and absolutely love it. There is a new flight from Miami to Casablanca and they plan on returning to Costa Rica and making the move in mid-August. Easy visas and foreigners welcomed.

 

He has been to Thailand a few times and has the same opinion, money money money money.

[JackThompson]

22 hours ago, nongsung said:

The rules are (in my opinion) not fair. I need to keep a balance of 800K/400K for emergencies; I get that. But if I was receiving a pension of 65K and spent it every month, where’s the check on an emergency fund then?

The rules are to limit our numbers - not for any practical purpose.   There is no "welfare" here. They used to say the money was enough to cover expenses for the year of the extension - but one cannot really use the bank-money for any type of spending, because spending it invalidates one's permitted-stay.

 

22 hours ago, TGIR said:

What gets me so riled up is we are the ones that make sure we follow all the rules and take their crap like a bunch of sheep, while the people they really should be after are the ones that spend years avoiding their duty to show up at all. 

Connect the Dots.  The ones using "agents" to launder IO's tea-money don't have problems and, at most, show up for a quick picture and leave.  This is not an accident - it is by design.  Honesty is not what is rewarded at many immigration offices.

[khunPer]

OP, you shall happy you're not under Surat Thani Immigration and use the Koh Samui office...????

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

I will be extending for the 10th time (marriage/2 offices) in a few months. I have had neither uncertainty nor stress in following the rules, I actually found bringing my wife into Canada a lot more stressful and I was full of uncertainty through the whole process. There is a bureaucracy to overcome here but as far as immigration is concerned that is hardly limited to Thailand. IMO it is a small price to pay and life is too short to be constantly complaining and wringing my hands over it. Just give them what they require, it's not rocket science, or go elsewhere if you think you'll be happier.

Does she have citizenship or PR in Canada now?  If not, she must not have stayed very long. 

Compare the difficulty there, but where PR/Citizenship is on the table for your Thai wife, with the corresponding level of trouble you would have to go through to get citizenship/PR here.

 

20 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Out of interest, can Thai pensioners retire to your country with the same amount of cash in the bank for 10 consecutive years?

Where they get PR and Citizenship in short-order?  Where much higher-paid jobs, welfare-benefits and civil-rights await them?  Let's not get into this usual apples/oranges comparison. 

 

We are spending foreign-sourced money into Thailand - seemingly to the disdain of a clique within immigration, who would happily throw their own citizens (who have employment thanks to us) under the bus, simply to be rid of us - though we are not a significant source of crime or other problems to their country.

 

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I heard that the USA ask for 16 million baht to be invested in a US company.

The USA would be a terrible choice for retirement IMO - but that option is just one way to get legal status. 

 

But, if seeking illegal-employment in the USA, just sneak in, move to a "sanctuary" state, get a legit drivers license, then use fake federal-docs to get a job - No Problem.  Landlords don't have to report you, nor do local police - even if you get caught drunk-driving, etc.  If the feds get wind of your crime and show up at the courthouse, the local pro-immigrant / anti-citizen judge will sneak you out a side-door (yes, this actually happened) to "save you" from being held accountable for breaking into the country illegally.

[THAIJAMES]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Under the old rules where we were allowed to spend the 800K it made some sense, as you were  then showing proof of funds to live on.

 

No longer.

 

Don't ask me what this does achieve. I couldn't tell you.

 

 

what was happening is that some people were using companies to temporarily borrow the 800,000 for a few days to get their visas.

Immigration became wise of it and therefore the new rules.

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

 

 

guess this sort of impacts the myth of the beautiful polite well mannered sensible thai woman.  isnt there a separate topic about this myth?

30 years ago it was almost all male and the procedures were easy going. They started having women Immigration officers about 15 - 20 years ago and that is when things became much worse. 

[Neeranam]

49 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Where they get PR and Citizenship in short-order?  Where much higher-paid jobs, welfare-benefits and civil-rights await them?  Let's not get into this usual apples/oranges comparison. 

 Really, old age pensioners can go to your country and easily become citizens?

[from the home of CC]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

We are spending foreign-sourced money into Thailand - seemingly to the disdain of a clique within immigration, who would happily throw their own citizens (who have employment thanks to us) under the bus, simply to be rid of us - though we are not a significant source of crime or other problems to their country.

 

Sorry, don't see it that way at all. There's been lots of threads about western importance monetarily to Thailand over the years and the evidence I saw  just doesn't support that view. Especially when you consider how diluted so many currencies have become, I think many people here are just scrambling to make ends meet rather than contributing to Thailand's economy (re investment). As far as employment in the tourism sector, Chinese two weekers and a host of other Asian nations will keep that industry alive forever. I also feel that just because we don't read a lot about significant criminality here perpetrated by westerners, doesn't mean it isn't occurring. Due to poor wages corruptibility is easily accomplished enabling a lot of scumbags to act with impunity and invisibility. I do believe, after spending the best part of 16yrs here, that there is some progress being made regards to that.      

[Fairynuff]

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Out of interest, can Thai pensioners retire to your country with the same amount of cash in the bank for 10 consecutive years?

Out of interest...pointless post

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

 

Especially when you consider how diluted so many currencies have become, I think many people here are just scrambling to make ends meet rather than contributing to Thailand's economy (re investment). 

You probably did not get the chance to see the CNY/THB chart evolution over the last few years.

 

To make it more painful, the prices in THB have also surged.

[from the home of CC]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

You probably did not get the chance to see the CNY/THB chart evolution over the last few years.

 

To make it more painful, the prices in THB have also surged.

I didn't see that for I was watching my own currency head to the toilet. Where the Asians have the advantage coming here to vacay are cheap flights and big group tours in which most other tourists don't roll that way on that scale. 

[lkv]

1 minute ago, from the home of CC said:

I didn't see that for I was watching my own currency head to the toilet. Where the Asians have the advantage coming here to vacay are cheap flights and big group tours in which most other tourists don't roll that way on that scale. 

Yeah, and when they go to Chatuchak market, and convert the prices to yuan, they start laughing because they realise they can get the same items half price back home.

 

The market trip comes right after the heavily subsidized buffet, where the profits roll back into the Chinese economy in some way ????

[JackThompson]

 

3 hours ago, Christopher Albert said:

The Chinese are #1 largest group of travelers in the world now, their numbers are legion and on the average far wealthier than anyone on a retirement visa.

I guess you don't mean the ones flooding in on cheap flights and clogging up roads with tour-buses?  The ones whose numbers drop and are pulled-back by offering 1000 baht off of a VOA - or even free VOA - because that little bit of money makes a difference to the ability of thousands of them per-month? 

 

Yes, there are some wealthy Chinese, but what do they have to do with farang Retirees?  Many condos and restaurants are empty, and the Chinese aren't filling them.  They spend their money somewhere else (the tour-bus types at 7/11) - but what economic-reason supports removing the Farangs and shuttering the other businesses? 

 

3 hours ago, Christopher Albert said:

So short stay, big speed shopping trips = $ per visitor per day dwarfs what comes in from retirement visas which are not really that anayway since they dont lead to permanent residency. It might have seemed like a good idea when it started and did help build up the tourist industry but times have changed and the Chinese now rule that part of the world.

3 hours ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

when tourism to the Kingdom was less than a fifth what it is today, the farang and his pension were tolerated, even welcomed. Now however, with the Chinese short-stay market seemingly limitless in scope for expansion, and other markets such as India still nascent, the Thai government and its absurd arm, the TAT, have an eye for bang-bang, quick in-and-out tourism, while extracting as much cash as possible as quickly as possible.

Why does an increase in the cheap "tour group" / short-term-visitor sector necessitate the removal of longer-staying farangs who have always been a reliable source of income?   If anyone should complain about filling the roads with umpteen tour-buses and packing the sidewalks with "flag followers," it would be us.  Yet the authorities upset at us for "still being here," to spite their lowering the value of the destination by pandering to a down-scale market? 

 

There are still many, many Thais who need jobs as a step-up from subsistence-farming - if only to raise capital to modernize their farms and homes, and support their families.  Those working for the Chinese tourist-sector make less than those who support the Farang sector.  When/if the need no longer exists, they might reconsider booting the people who support those Thai jobs. 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Jim7777 said:

Regarding “drawing” the map to your house from Immigration it would be easier for you if you just printed it off of Google maps then you won’t have to worry about them not accepting it.  I don’t think I would ever think about drawing them a map to my house in this day and age.  

So one would think - but they won't accept those.  They insist on "hand drawn only" maps in some offices. 

 

3 hours ago, Jim7777 said:

But for you all using your 401Ks or savings for the 800K Baht option there is no guarantee that you won’t spend it all after you receive your stamp or transfer it out of the country or whatever.

No, you cannot touch the money, so it doesn't help if you needed it.

 

Quote

So they want to make sure that you can still afford to live here.

Then the number would be 20K Baht/mo or 240K Baht in the bank - more than most Thai families spend to live here.  In fact, many wish they had that much.

 

Quote

 In the past there used to be a lot of homeless foreigners around here so they want to prevent that because if any of us go broke and homeless then we become their responsibility.

How, exactly, do we become their responsibility?  There are no handouts.  Do you mean another sardine packed into in the IDC-can?  That costs Thailand very little per-inmate, and the conditions are a strong deterrent to running out of money here.

 

3 hours ago, Jim7777 said:

In the United States you don’t necessarily have to have enough money to immigrate there, but that’s different because most good immigrants in the States just want jobs.

Unfortunately true - and letting them come for that lousy reason is why wages are now in the toilet for the majority of Americans, who cannot put their hands on even $500 cash for an emergency any more, due precisely to an immigration-policy which serves elite-interests only, thanks to to the effect of an endless labor-supply on the Iron Law of Wages.

 

If only we had Thailand's "problem" of "too many" (sic) self-funded foreigners wanting to stay, providing employment-opportunities for citizens.

Edited April 6, 2019 by JackThompson

[mike787]

On 4/5/2019 at 9:12 PM, TGIR said:

I feel your pain brother.....a couple of weeks ago we went through a similar routine.  I have learned (most of the time) to sit quietly and read a book. 

 

On our tenth year appointment they gave my wife a hard time because her middle name wasn't the same on her American passport as her Thai I.D. card.  Seems they changed the rules after ten years......so I sort of blew a gasket and said quite loudly "We've been coming here for ten years and NOW they want you to do WHAT??  She gave me the evil eye and I went back to my book, but fixing the "problem" required two trips to Bangkok.....one she went by herself and one we paid another person to run the errand for her.....absolutely unnecessary.

 

Another time after we had lived here for several years she came back from the desk she was at and said she had to go to the Tessabaan to certify my yellow book or something.......she told me she would go herself, which surprised the hell out of me because she hates to drive in Hua Hin.......obviously didn't want to listen to my whining and bitching in the car.....

 

What gets me so riled up is we are the ones that make sure we follow all the rules and take their crap like a bunch of sheep, while the people they really should be after are the ones that spend years avoiding their duty to show up at all.  That and the fact that you can go one time and it takes just a couple of minutes and you're done......then the next time it's some crap they never wanted before and you start sweating "is this the time it's something so bad I have to move out of the country?"

And that's why I invest nothing here. I buy some food and that's it.  Real estate, cars, NO WAY.  My existence depends on the mood they're in, that's like playing Russian roulette.  

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, bronzedude said:

For a simple retirement extension I have never heard of the IO needing to visit your home.

They do now - in some areas - sometimes.  His is not the first report of this.  But, to date, not a single report of someone using an agent and having immigration show up for a home visit - either marriage or retirement.

 

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

What if your 90 day report and 90 days after extension (to show bank book) are not at the same time ? you would have to be very lucky to have them fall at the same time.

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes thats right but the OP specifically mentions showing bank book at next 90 day. People keep mentioning that two visits will be tied together but other than the OP, it hasn't been the case anywhere.

At some offices, it was reported they re-set the 90-day reporting from the time of application to allow both reports at the same time.  In others, a separate "come back and show the money" day was given - unrelated to the 90-day reporting day.  The latter makes more sense, given someone could go on a trip which would reset their 90-day count.

 

3 hours ago, watso63 said:

What has her passport got to do with anything? None of their business but makes for a good whine on your part.

You mean a reason to make problems on immigration's part?  Agreed, immigration should have had nothing to say about her passport.  Perhaps they were just mad there wasn't an envelope of cash with the extension-application?  Some IOs dislike the "honest" (1900 Baht, only) applicants.  Too bad they don't just set the price at 3K Baht per annual-extension and let the IOs work on commission.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

and you can thank previous expats who never really had the funds and were caught out..

The ones immigration's agent-partners set up with extensions?  It's their fault? 

Rather, you can thank the dishonest IOs in the agent-racket, and those at the top who (for some unknown reason - take a guess) change the rules in ways which increase revenue for the racket.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

what was happening is that some people were using companies to temporarily borrow the 800,000 for a few days to get their visas.

Immigration became wise of it and therefore the new rules.

The "loan" is just for a few hours, via companies (aka "agents") who work directly with immigration.  There was already 3 months seasoning rule to prevent "loaned money," from non-agents (who don't split the loot with immigration), but the "seasoning check" is skipped for "agent-assisted" applications.  This system continues now - no change, other than a higher "fee" for the IOs and their agent-partners to split.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

 Really, old age pensioners can go to your country and easily become citizens?

You can live with more privilege than citizens without even entering my country Legally.  As to a "pension retirement" visa, there would be no market for it.  Why would pensioners want to go to a place where their money "doesn't go as far"?  Why go where you need more money for a lower quality of life?  The only reason to move to the West is to get higher-paid work - which is the inverse of Thailand, where most from higher-wage nations come specifically to Not work.

[from the home of CC]

Just now, JackThompson said:

The ones immigration's agent-partners set up with extensions?  It's their fault? 

Rather, you can thank the dishonest IOs in the agent-racket, and those at the top who (for some unknown reason - take a guess) change the rules in ways which increase revenue for the racket.

 I believe I've read that comment or similar from you probably fifty times in the last 3 months so I have no doubt that you believe it. But as I said earlier, I've had 10 extensions across 2 offices and I've never experienced anything like that. I had one IO yrs ago suggest to me that a retirement visa would be easier but I declined and he shrugged his shoulders and I've never heard about it again.  

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

Sorry, don't see it that way at all. There's been lots of threads about western importance monetarily to Thailand over the years and the evidence I saw  just doesn't support that view. Especially when you consider how diluted so many currencies have become, I think many people here are just scrambling to make ends meet rather than contributing to Thailand's economy (re investment).

Even with currency changes - even the worst-case drop of the UK-pound - each of us spending foreign-sourced capital is spending several Thai jobs into existence.  This is not "recycled money" from working here, but "new wealth" from outside the country being spent in.

 

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

As far as employment in the tourism sector, Chinese two weekers and a host of other Asian nations will keep that industry alive forever.

At lower wages than Western-supporting businesses, and the Western-supporting businesses are being driven Out of Business.  This is not a binary choice - no reason Westerners have to go for the Chinese to visit.

 

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

I also feel that just because we don't read a lot about significant criminality here perpetrated by westerners, doesn't mean it isn't occurring. Due to poor wages corruptibility is easily accomplished enabling a lot of scumbags to act with impunity and invisibility. I do believe, after spending the best part of 16yrs here, that there is some progress being made regards to that.      

Cambodia's system of fingerprint / biometric entry and exit works.  I'd have no problem with that.  The "tell us where you live" bit is also reasonable, provided it wasn't a 4x redundant mess (TM-28, TM-30, TM-6, 90-day reports). 

 

But, it will be hard to get rid of criminals, with an immigration system full of agents taking bribes for extensions, and enforcing non-existent rejection-rules at some entry-points for no apparent purpose other than to force people into the aforementioned bribe-able extensions.  Fix the corruption within the ranks and modernize - then the honest IOs can get rid of the real 'bad guys', while not molesting the honest folks, anymore.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

I didn't see that for I was watching my own currency head to the toilet. Where the Asians have the advantage coming here to vacay are cheap flights and big group tours in which most other tourists don't roll that way on that scale. 

Yes, you can get many "barely afford the trip" poor-tourists that way.  Factor in the overhead-costs, and I'm not sure it makes a profit for the nation - looks like more of a "corporate-welfare" subsidized operation to me - but maybe they break-even with the airport-tax factored in. 

 

Either way, those "connected" to the tour-company circuit (where the buses stop) are surely making out - and wisely sharing their loot with those who are needed to keep the game going.

[thaipo7]

To Nongsung - Better to vent here than the Immigration office.  They have the power to make you sit and sit for no reason.

 

The time before last at the Korat Immigration office, I have been known to be very impatient with them.  They actually told my wife would please ask him to wait outside and he will be called in when we need him.  Married for 47 years to my wife.

 

Last time we went, everyone had been transferred to a new job with the police.  With the new people all went well.  Two nice young girls helped with the paperwork and then straight to the Immigration people and in about 20 minutes, I am all set until Jan 17, 2020.

 

Paperwork is crazy.  They already have all the info on their computers.  All they really needed to do was ask, "Are you still living at the same address? and Has your phone number changed?"  That is it.

 

Every other time we were missing something.  Go back to the Amphoe and get what they want and go back to Immigration and was told, "You don't need this."  

 

Hard to control temper when this happens.

[smo]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

But, it will be hard to get rid of criminals, with an immigration system full of agents taking bribes for extensions, and enforcing non-existent rejection-rules at some entry-points for no apparent purpose other than to force people into the aforementioned bribe-able extensions.

 

Indeed. After my visit to Chaeng Wattana this past week for the retirement extension, I came away convinced that Immigration has deliberately made the experience by itself more and more unbearable just so people would throw themselves - and their money - into the arms of the agent-cohorts in order to simply spare themselves of the ordeal!

 

If you come alone, confident that you could handle the gauntlet on your own, first off the wait would get longer, much longer, which translates to the chairs in the waiting area be filled most of the time. We all know that immigration waiting room, especially that at CW is not exactly the place for inner-contemplation but more like Chatujak weekend market - pity for the decrepit old seniors and handicapped folks who were visibly having a hard time hanging in there. During my short time presenting myself at the IO's desk, not a moment, no I take that back, not one second went by that she wasn't approached by one agent or another, whisperings - one even got down on his knees so he could whisper closer to her ears- lowered glances, discreet head-nodding, handing of little notes. Papers were flying from one desk to another as the IOs were repeatedly getting up from their desk running back and forth doing the same things among themselves. The idea is to make the independent, agentless farang feel that see, you're not the main focus here, instead we feed you crumbs - topped with all the unpleasantness that civic life can offer and that we can think of.

 

Consequently the IO's work got sloppy: a) I did not get the bank account guideline sheet that many reporting here have received b ) I did not even get the blue receipt when I paid the 1900 baht; I mentioned it before leaving the desk and she waved me off with a "later..." Only when I went back out to the waiting area did I realize that now there was no proof that I have submitted my passport and bank book, that I have been seen by anyone nor for that matter I might as well have just come in from the street. So given the chaotic atmosphere on display here, my whole file could possibly disappear and I would have nothing to show for! After 2 hrs plus of waiting (used to be 30 - 45 min) after being "seen" by the IO, the intern came out and returned my documents. The blue receipt was quarter-folded and stapled into a page of my passport, something that has never been before.

[Enoon]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Even with currency changes - even the worst-case drop of the UK-pound - each of us spending foreign-sourced capital is spending several Thai jobs into existence.  This is not "recycled money" from working here, but "new wealth" from outside the country being spent in.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how much of this is about Thailand resident husbands but:

 

"A Khon Kaen University study (2014) found that marriages with foreigners by Thai northeastern women boosted the gross domestic product of the northeast by 8.67 billion baht (2014: €211 million or US$270 million). According to the study, after a northeastern woman married a foreigner, she will send 9,600 baht a month on average to her family to help with its expenses. The activity also created 747,094 jobs, the study found. The 2010 census found that 90 percent of the slightly more than 27,000 foreigners living in the northeastern region were married to women from there."

Isan - Wikipedia

 

 

[merijn]

On 4/5/2019 at 4:51 PM, Jingthing said:

Jomtien has been ordering every income method retirement extension applicant since March to come in after 90 days AFTER their extension to show their bank book has not gone one baht under 800K baht. They are simply ENFORCEMENT the police order about post seasoning. That's the legal justification. Sorry to say as onerous as this is, it is completely legally justified.

 

Legal consequences of showing and being under? We don't know but the general assumption is that the current annual extension would be then CANCELLED.

Consequences of not showing for an ordered money showing if not abroad? Again, we don't know but I also think it's fair to assume that they wouldn't be above making house calls. 

 

The new immigration rules -- no joke. (Groan.)

Would be interesting to see how they do that with people who travel a lot.

I Almost never do a 90 day reporting as i never stay longer then 90 days in the country at one time.

How they do it when you are not in the country for the 90 day money check after the extension ?

 

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

There is no legal requirement. But some IOs are requiring it.

 

I would not assume it is for the reason you suggest, though. The Police Order provided absolutely no guidance as to how compliance with the new rules in terms of spending is to be enforced. In this culture  communication flows in one direction only and if the lower downs do not receive clear instructions from their higher ups they are left to their own devices in trying to figure out what it is they are supposed to do...knowing that if they guess wrong, they'll be blamed for it.

 

Not really surprising therefore that some IOs have decided the safest thing is to make people come back periodically throughout the year in with bank proof.

Phuket Immigration does not require people to return after 90 days with the bank statement but they will check it at your next years extension to see if you where a bad boy. (but they can require the 90 day check if they suspect foul play, this has not happened yet)

 

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think it was Jomtien immigration. I have seen the same info with a report date 3 month later at the bottom of it that was done there.

I only heard of Jomtien office ordering people to return after 90 day with their bank statements.

[Joe Mcseismic]

9 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Out of interest...pointless post

In other words..........no.