Airlines Policy

[onzestan]

I have the impression that a lot of airlines use their oldest aircraft on the BKK route.

This impression is based on my own experience and some of my friends.

Airlines in question :

EVA to and from AMS

CI to and from AMS

KLM to and from AMS

GULF to and from Bahrain

LH to Frankfurt

TG to Frankfurt

etc. etc.

I wonder why ?? Anybody with a logical explanation ??

Onzestan

[Thai-Spy]

Just speculating, but might it be that Bangkok is the least prestigious of a group of destinations (BKK, Tokyo, Seoul, Singapore, etc.) which that class or model of plane could profitably service? And that the passengers flying to and from Bangkok are viewed (rightly or wrongly) by airlines as less fussy about the conditions of the plane?

[jumbo]

I have the impression that a lot of airlines use their oldest aircraft on the BKK route.

This impression is based on my own experience and some of my friends.

Airlines in question :

EVA to and from AMS

CI to and from AMS

KLM to and from AMS

GULF to and from Bahrain

LH to Frankfurt

TG to Frankfurt

etc. etc.

I wonder why ?? Anybody with a logical explanation ??

Onzestan

First of all what is oldest planes, the still could be relatively young as well

For trips to AMS I have expereinced both old and new for all airlines

Secondly I do not think so because overall it is one of the largest hauls in one time and Bangkok is viewed as a prestigious hub....

just my thaughts

J

[cdnvic]

Well, they look at how many people were flying happily in Phuket Air's ramshackle fleet, and probably conclude that travellers to Thailand are more concerned on average with price than comfort or safety.

[ercorn]

you forgot T.G Melb-BKK

[flightcrew1]

Working International and based in BKK I work both new and old aircraft. I have worked a 22 year old 747 to Amsterdam one week and 2 weeks later a 9 month old 747. I have yet to see a patern. Though as they replace the old with the new I find BKK is always the last to get the new aircraft full time and then by that time new aircraft/seating is being used on different routes. I think it has to to with cost.

[onzestan]

Working International and based in BKK I work both new and old aircraft. I have worked a 22 year old 747 to Amsterdam one week and 2 weeks later a 9 month old 747. I have yet to see a patern. Though as they replace the old with the new I find BKK is always the last to get the new aircraft full time and then by that time new aircraft/seating is being used on different routes. I think it has to to with cost.

Hi There,

Your experiences confirm more or less my point of view. By older aircraft I meant older seating type.

China airlines for example, their business seats, are a joke compared to Etihads B777.

Anyway I am convinced that the more succesfull a routing is, the less incentive to upgrade.

Regards

Onzestan

[Prakanong]

Working International and based in BKK I work both new and old aircraft. I have worked a 22 year old 747 to Amsterdam one week and 2 weeks later a 9 month old 747. I have yet to see a patern. Though as they replace the old with the new I find BKK is always the last to get the new aircraft full time and then by that time new aircraft/seating is being used on different routes. I think it has to to with cost.

Hi There,

Your experiences confirm more or less my point of view. By older aircraft I meant older seating type.

China airlines for example, their business seats, are a joke compared to Etihads B777.

Anyway I am convinced that the more succesfull a routing is, the less incentive to upgrade.

Regards

Onzestan

Confirms my impression also - I have doe some hotrrible biz class from say Heathrow or Frankfurt to BKK on both Thai and LH

Now I fly around the region out of Singapore mostly on SG I am getting nice planes.

[flightcrew1]

Yes you can not go wrong with Singapore Airlines! The aircraft they use (seating) is 3/4 generations ahead of most airlines and that is in economy class! They and Virgin were the first to use seat back entertainment...10 years ago! Most TG flights are using 12 year old seats in economy class..though their business class is update with Singapore Airlines (4 years ago)!

[sceadugenga]

you forgot T.G Melb-BKK

I think the Wright brothers built that 747.

[Chivas]

Yes you can not go wrong with Singapore Airlines! The aircraft they use (seating) is 3/4 generations ahead of most airlines and that is in economy class! They and Virgin were the first to use seat back entertainment...10 years ago! Most TG flights are using 12 year old seats in economy class..though their business class is update with Singapore Airlines (4 years ago)!

Incorrect by at least 5 years as I flew in economy on Emirates in 1992 on Bangkok route which had seat back entertainment.

Chivas

[old wanderer]

One of the considerations that is taken into account in aircraft age is not the calendar age, but the "flight cycle" age of the aircraft. There are some majoy mandated mods once you reach a threshold.

A flight cycle is 1 take-off/landing. By flying the longer routes you postpone this maitenace period .

It is not uncommon to find aircraft with 80,000 hours of flying buy only 31,000 cycles. The threshold is usually around 45,000 - 60,000 cycles depending on the model of aircraft.

[cdnvic]

Yes you can not go wrong with Singapore Airlines! The aircraft they use (seating) is 3/4 generations ahead of most airlines and that is in economy class! They and Virgin were the first to use seat back entertainment...10 years ago! Most TG flights are using 12 year old seats in economy class..though their business class is update with Singapore Airlines (4 years ago)!

Incorrect by at least 5 years as I flew in economy on Emirates in 1992 on Bangkok route which had seat back entertainment.

Chivas

Emirates was indeed the first airline to roll out seatback screens. (1992)

[lomatopo]

I have the impression that a lot of airlines use their oldest aircraft on the BKK route.

etc. etc.

I wonder why ?? Anybody with a logical explanation ??

Onzestan

"etc. etc." What does that mean? You have other examples?

And yes, it would help if you could share your impression of what defines "...their oldest aircraft..."

Seriously your impessions are just that, impressions based on your limited knowledge and experience. Impressions are never right or wrong so hard to address with a logical explanation.

Have you flown all of these routes and carriers? How often? Over what time period? Can you support your impression with any relevant data?

Carriers operate fleets of aircraft of varying age. Many factors affect specific airframe rotation throughout a route structure but age of the airframe is not one of these factors. It's absurd to suggest that carriers somehow go to great lengths to insure the oldest airframe serves a specific destination.

Carriers are constantly updating the interiors of aircraft, and across a fleet of 10 ~ 30 B747'es this can take upwards of two years. TG has 18 B747'es and has updated 12 to date. So some routes do get a dedicated subset of airframes to support consistent class of service amenities on a particular route. For example TG has the latest B747 interiors (10F/40J/325Y) on FRA (2X) and LHR (2X). (I flew FRA-BKK twice last year, both times on the same aircraft, "Chao Phraya". For BKK-FRA it was an evening departure so did not get a look at the aircraft name/number.)

TG's B747 fleet is 11.7 years old, as an average.

Carriers are also re-branding (new livery) aircraft, TG is of course in the middle of such an operation now. This can take a very long time. Airframes are not repainted based on age so I wouldn't assume old livery indicates an old airframe.

Generally speaking BKK is served by many carriers with long-haul, high capacity aircraft. It is a high-density, budget/mid-tier tourist destination, so many carriers offer service to BKK. B747'es make up a significant portion of these aircraft, and many of these have been in operation for a long time.

[onzestan]

I have the impression that a lot of airlines use their oldest aircraft on the BKK route.

etc. etc.

I wonder why ?? Anybody with a logical explanation ??

Onzestan

"etc. etc." What does that mean? You have other examples?

And yes, it would help if you could share your impression of what defines "...their oldest aircraft..."

Seriously your impessions are just that, impressions based on your limited knowledge and experience. Impressions are never right or wrong so hard to address with a logical explanation.

Have you flown all of these routes and carriers? How often? Over what time period? Can you support your impression with any relevant data?

Carriers operate fleets of aircraft of varying age. Many factors affect specific airframe rotation throughout a route structure but age of the airframe is not one of these factors. It's absurd to suggest that carriers somehow go to great lengths to insure the oldest airframe serves a specific destination.

Carriers are constantly updating the interiors of aircraft, and across a fleet of 10 ~ 30 B747'es this can take upwards of two years. TG has 18 B747'es and has updated 12 to date. So some routes do get a dedicated subset of airframes to support consistent class of service amenities on a particular route. For example TG has the latest B747 interiors (10F/40J/325Y) on FRA (2X) and LHR (2X). (I flew FRA-BKK twice last year, both times on the same aircraft, "Chao Phraya". For BKK-FRA it was an evening departure so did not get a look at the aircraft name/number.)

TG's B747 fleet is 11.7 years old, as an average.

Carriers are also re-branding (new livery) aircraft, TG is of course in the middle of such an operation now. This can take a very long time. Airframes are not repainted based on age so I wouldn't assume old livery indicates an old airframe.

Generally speaking BKK is served by many carriers with long-haul, high capacity aircraft. It is a high-density, budget/mid-tier tourist destination, so many carriers offer service to BKK. B747'es make up a significant portion of these aircraft, and many of these have been in operation for a long time.

OK to make things perfectly clear (and forgive me if my english is not perfect)

I have been Emerald Member (and you have to fly allot to get that) with China Airlines for 4 years, (AMS) till their B747's looked like a dump with completely worn out seats, whilst their newest aircraft serviced other destinations.

I have tried EVA Air to Amsterdam in 2003 in their B747 same same as CI.

I have flown Emirates in 2003 business class is not worth the price plus Dubai will NEVER see me again but thats another story.

I am gold member with Gulf and they fly their unrefurbished and clearly very worn A340's on the Bahrain/BKK/Hong Kong route while the refurbished A340 service Australia via Singapore.

Between all this I have flown LH and TG same same

In the last 15 years I have flown return to europe nearly 100 times so I think I do have some experience.

Anyway in my original topic I clearly mentioned that it was my impression and never stated that it is a fact, so next time before you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about please read my statement carefully.

Onzestan

p.s. Are you maybe affiliated to TG ?

[lomatopo]

Anyway in my original topic I clearly mentioned that it was my impression and never stated that it is a fact, so next time before you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about please read my statement carefully.

Onzestan

p.s. Are you maybe affiliated to TG ?

Perhaps you could take your own advice? I did not accuse you of anything. I merely asked for clarification regarding how you arrived at your impression. Once we understand your impression and associated definitions we can attempt to offer explanations, which is what you asked for. Please do not be so defensive, and subsequently offensive.

It sounds as though your impression is based mainly on the quality of the cabin interior, and that airlines possibly rotate aircraft onto xxx-BKK based on the age of the interior? I think I offered a viable explanation that addresses interiors in my inital post?

I am not affiliated with TG other than as an occasional passenger.

[ovenman]

I have the impression that a lot of airlines use their oldest aircraft on the BKK route.

This impression is based on my own experience and some of my friends.

Airlines in question :

KLM to and from AMS

I don't think this is really the case for KLM per se. The 747 Combis are not KLM's newest aircraft to be sure, but they use them on some of their Asian routes such as Bangkok and Singapore so that they can haul more cargo to/from these places (since half the plane is a freighter).

[onzestan]

Seriously your impessions are just that, impressions based on your limited knowledge and experience. Impressions are never right or wrong so hard to address with a logical explanation.

Have you flown all of these routes and carriers? How often? Over what time period? Can you support your impression with any relevant data?

If these remarks do not imply that I don't know what I am talking about, then I can't imagine what would.

Anyway end of story

Cheers

Onzestan