Mia Farang

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Pharoticus said:

You talk about our grandmothers and great grandmothers. Yes, you're right. But hopefully you and I are not Edwardian or Victorian dinosaurs. Times have changed, and you and I have moved with them. Pity the poor fools who haven't.

 

These days women get to vote. The workplace has opened up. Women now have opportunities. They can have fantastic careers and achieve great things. Did you know that women even get to become Prime Minister?

 

Unless you're insecure, socially inadequate or a fossilized dinosaur, you will support your wife. In this context the word 'support' means support.

 

Our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers also supported their wives. And so do the dinosaurs here in Thailand. But in this context the word 'support' means money. 

 

Any doubts? Let's meet some modern Thai women. Elsewhere in this Pub section is some blurb about Pepsi's new drink and the company's marketing manager, Laddawan Lertwasin. And here she is.

 

 

 

There's also some blurb in the Thailand news section about Dunkin' Donuts and their re-branding efforts. Here is the MD of Thailand's concession, Golden Donuts. Her name is Nobklao Trakoolpan.

 

 

   

If our fathers, grandfathers or great grandfathers were to date these women, they might offer support. And the women would be disgusted. They'd hate the suggestion that they could be bought and paid for; they'd be appalled at how little respect the men had for their careers and achievements. 

 

If I were to date these women I too would volunteer support. And the women would respect me for it. 

 

I won't continue as I think most of this forum's dinosaurs don't have a clue what I'm talking about. 

 

Suffice to say, if your little woman is bought and paid for, she isn't a proper wife. She's just a little pet who cooks your dinner and opens her legs on demand. And she'll most certainly be viewed as a Mia Farang.  

 

  

 

 

I know plenty of housewives in Thailand. Is there something wrong with that? I am talking about women married to Thais and women married to foreigners. Women of working age who have chosen, with their husbands agreement, to stay at home rather than work because the husband is bringing in sufficient income for the both of them. Is there something wrong with that? Are the women leeches and the men disrespectful? Not all women are career women. Not all women have the opportunities. Not all men and women come from families that can pay for a good education.  You are comparing apples with oranges. As a percentage of the female population of working age, how many are in senior/management or other well paying positions. The vast majority are not earning decent sums of money for their work, do not have the opportunity to advance and worry about money.  You do realize you are denigrating a large number of people with your wide brush strokes.    

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

I know plenty of housewives in Thailand. Is there something wrong with that? I am talking about women married to Thais and women married to foreigners. Women of working age who have chosen, with their husbands agreement, to stay at home rather than work because the husband is bringing in sufficient income for the both of them. Is there something wrong with that? Are the women leeches and the men disrespectful? Not all women are career women. Not all women have the opportunities. Not all men and women come from families that can pay for a good education.  You are comparing apples with oranges. As a percentage of the female population of working age, how many are in senior/management or other well paying positions. The vast majority are not earning decent sums of money for their work, do not have the opportunity to advance and worry about money.  You do realize you are denigrating a large number of people with your wide brush strokes.    

Thing is, it's such a mixed bag of situations.

 

We were both working in Singapore when our son was born, and my wife made a very definite decision to take a year off work.

So was I paying her a salary? I just looked at it as providing for the family.

When we moved to Thailand, and indeed when we moved back to the US, she works, I'm retired. 

Is she paying me a salary? 

Trouble is, many on TVF fail to realize that quite a few of us have very normal relationships, outside of the bar girl/customer world

Edited April 12, 2019 by GinBoy2

[Neeranam]

48 minutes ago, Benroon said:

How ?

I imagined it's rather embarrassing growing up being called a bastard.

It was much easier for me to get my kids' birth registered in the UK.

 

[Fex Bluse]

On 4/6/2019 at 6:11 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I don't think its impacted my Wife whatsoever... 

If someone referred to her as Mia-Farang I think she would consider it quite odd. 

 

It's instantly obvious when looking at my Wife that she is not from a bar or lower socio-economic background (some readers may dislike that phrase, but thats just the way it is here, for the initiated its easy to tell)...

 

Thus, she's spoken to and treated in exactly manner whether I am with her or not...   

 

If anything... I am treated more favorably by Thai's after they have met my Wife... perhaps because they more readily place me in the social pecking order by proxy - I imagine many who are married to respectful Thai ladies experience the same (again.... some readers may dislike this, but thats just the way it is here, again, for the initiated its easy to tell !).... 

 

Thus, I don't know if the term Mia-Farang is meant as a slur, but I can guess how its used and by which facet of society. 

 

My experince as well. Thais spend their whole lives from birth developing skills to place each other in a social order as Thai culture requires it. To Thais, my wife is instantly recognizable as someone from a high socioeconomic class. 

 

Now, I'm certain that many Thai (and especially Thai-Chinese men) don't like the fact that my wife is with me, but it's hard for me or my wife to care when we are happy and enjoying a life of wealth we both built through hard work and shared sacrifice. 

 

As for the many guys who met their loves in bars or similar, I have no issue with it, but we must be honest here. It's not entirely unlike the West where a guy introducing a an undereducated "gold digger" at an elite social event is not fooling anyone. If a farang is with a bar girl, she'll have one or more of the many traits of a bargirl that can't be hidden from other Thais.

Things like:

 

1. Tattoos. Overwhelmingly, non-low class Thai women will not mark their bodies with tattoos that are visible in public. 

 

2. Manner of speaking and presenting. Just like in our countries, Thais have registers of speaking that can indicate their level of education and what social class they tend to be amongst. They also have prescribed ways of interacting that can indicate their social class.

 

3. Wandering eyes. Some of our farang mates, and especially the older guys, may not know but your "teerak" is an expert at making interest-showing glances at any/every man who she thinks might be a next candidate. She does this when you're not looking, and you almost never notice. It's immediately apparent that any random decent looking guy (especially one with obvious, real money) is just a a couple conversations away from drawing the "teerak" into a sexual affair. Sorry, guys. 

 

4. Public displays of affection. If your lady even holds your hand regularly in public, she's probably sending a clear signal to Thais that she is from a certain socioeconomic class. 

 

[GinBoy2]

20 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

My experince as well. Thais spend their whole lives from birth developing skills to place each other in a social order as Thai culture requires it. To Thais, my wife is instantly recognizable as someone from a high socioeconomic class. 

 

Now, I'm certain that many Thai (and especially Thai-Chinese men) don't like the fact that my wife is with me, but it's hard for me or my wife to care when we are happy and enjoying a life of wealth we both built through hard work and shared sacrifice. 

 

As for the many guys who met their loves in bars or similar, I have no issue with it, but we must be honest here. It's not entirely unlike the West where a guy introducing a an undereducated "gold digger" at an elite social event is not fooling anyone. If a farang is with a bar girl, she'll have one or more of the many traits of a bargirl that can't be hidden from other Thais.

Things like:

 

1. Tattoos. Overwhelmingly, non-low class Thai women will not mark their bodies with tattoos that are visible in public. 

 

2. Manner of speaking and presenting. Just like in our countries, Thais have registers of speaking that can indicate their level of education and what social class they tend to be amongst. They also have prescribed ways of interacting that can indicate their social class.

 

3. Wandering eyes. Some of our farang mates, and especially the older guys, may not know but your "teerak" is an expert at making interest-showing glances at any/every man who she thinks might be a next candidate. She does this when you're not looking, and you almost never notice. It's immediately apparent that any random decent looking guy (especially one with obvious, real money) is just a a couple conversations away from drawing the "teerak" into a sexual affair. Sorry, guys. 

 

4. Public displays of affection. If your lady even holds your hand regularly in public, she's probably sending a clear signal to Thais that she is from a certain socioeconomic class. 

 

I gotta agree on the tattoo thing.

 

Whereas in the West, where I'm pretty sure I'm the only only one not have some ink.

In Thailand any gal 30 and above with tats is pretty much assumed to be in the 'entertainment' industry

 

The young ones are just in the global trend to ink everything you can.

 

As much as I tried to tell my daughters, pierce what you want, but don't tattoo it, fell on deaf ears

 

[lkn]

On 4/8/2019 at 9:52 AM, villagefarang said:

I have tried to advise friends visiting Bangkok with their Thai wives not to stay in hotels near the red light areas.  Restaurant staff and taxi drivers are more apt to refer to their husbands as customers or make other derogatory assumptions in places where that kind of relationship is the norm.

It is generally easy to spot if a couple has an actual relationship or if it is just a temporary arrangement, just listen to them speak, is it broken English with plenty of misunderstandings, or do they communicate in Thai? Is it basic stuff like questions you would ask someone you just met, or do they have a common frame of reference?

 

How bored is she with him, e.g. spending most of her time playing with the mobile.

 

Is there an age and/or attractiveness difference, i.e. is he an old fattie and she a young hottie.

 

Does she wear overtly sexy clothes, overdone makeup, tattoos, etc.

 

For the OP who complaints about staff being rude to his wife (“treated like a bargirl”): Something seems off to me. Most places want your business, so it would not be the norm to be rude to customers. Furthermore, if you look and act like a regular couple, I really don’t see why they would take your wife for a bargirl, something tells me that either you do not act like a regular couple, or perhaps the rudeness she experiences is based on something else.

 

I’ve had a handful of girlfriends over the years and taken them to many places in Thailand, there might have been one or two episodes with rude staff, though nothing specific comes to mind, and certainly not based on them thinking I was with a bargirl. In general I have found Thais to be extremely welcoming both when I am with and without a Thai girl, although it probably does help some that I speak Thai and are with age appropriate girls.

[lkn]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

4. Public displays of affection. If your lady even holds your hand regularly in public, she's probably sending a clear signal to Thais that she is from a certain socioeconomic class.

I agree with your other points, but this one I think is a little off.

 

First, for the socioeconomic class, while you do not write it, I believe the insinuation is that the lower classes are less concerned about public display of affection: I find it to be the opposite. The more educated you are, the less religious you tend to be, and thus less concerned about “Buddha watching” when it comes to holding hands in a temple, “doing stuff” near Buddha statues, etc.

 

Second, hand holding is not reserved for bargirls. You don’t hold hands on first date, but once I have established a relationship with a girl, I find that she will often want to hold my hand pretty much all the time.

 

Third, some forms of public display of affection seems to be both tolerated and done by Thais, not sure exactly how to define what is acceptable, but I know it when I see it ???? for example touching your partners behind in public is not acceptable, nor is kissing, or excessive caressing, but I’ve had partners lean toward me, wrap themselves around my arm, etc. which seemed perfectly fine.

 

[villagefarang]

Working in a 5 star hotel I had to read couples from across the lobby and generally you could tell a girl’s nightlife background but you could also tell the couple were married and not just together for the night, so you had to be careful not to offend.  From across the room sometimes all anyone has is appearance and it is easy for some to make snap judgements.  I know a few couples where the wife has a very stereotypic facial structure and coloration of the rural Isaan area and the guy hasn’t bothered to learn Thai.  Before you speak with them it is pretty easy to make assumptions based on their “look” but that goes away quickly once you meet them.

 

Thais always ask each other questions when introduced to help sort out how they should address each other.  Some judgements based on superficial factors can be overridden with a little knowledge.  In the very least Thais need to know age and see how you answer questions.

 

Even after 22 years my wife and I are very affectionate and do touch in public but it is done tastefully and is mainly met with sighs of envy from female friends who lack our level of closeness and affection.  With a 20 year age difference, I find it also helps to mention how long we have been together when meeting someone new.

Edited April 14, 2019 by villagefarang

[villagefarang]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I gotta agree on the tattoo thing.

 

Whereas in the West, where I'm pretty sure I'm the only only one not have some ink.

In Thailand any gal 30 and above with tats is pretty much assumed to be in the 'entertainment' industry

 

The young ones are just in the global trend to ink everything you can.

 

As much as I tried to tell my daughters, pierce what you want, but don't tattoo it, fell on deaf ears

 

Neither of us have tattoos and would never consider getting one but we do have younger friends who are covered in ink.  We try not to impose our personal choices on others but it is not always easy with strangers.

[lkn]

The term “farang” is not in any way derogatory.

 

But the proper polite word for wife is “phan-ra-ya”, so by using “mia” my thoughts are steered toward Isaan.

 

The combined word “mia farang”, there is both the association with Isaan (the main source of girls for hire) but there is also the implication that this person’s achievement is becoming a foreigner’s wife, rather than get a title of her own (e.g. teacher, doctor, etc.).

 

So I would say it might be taken as an insult by someone who has their own career, but for a poorly educated lady from Isaan, for her it might be sweet music in her ears, as her aspirations in life might have been to marry rich, and she takes the “mia farang” title to mean that she succeeded.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by lkn

[Pravda]

On 4/7/2019 at 12:58 PM, GalaxyMan said:

Mine gets furious when Thais treat her like a bargirl, especially being an educated professional, just because she's with a farang.

 

I'm just curious what Thais treat her like a bargirl? Surely she doesn't give a toss about some hotel receptionist or a supermarket staff?

 

[GalaxyMan]

6 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

I'm just curious what Thais treat her like a bargirl? Surely she doesn't give a toss about some hotel receptionist or a supermarket staff?

 

Not being a snob, she cares when anyone treats her poorly, no matter what their station in life is. It happens most often in eating/bar establishments.

[villagefarang]

As I said in the opening post, I was just wondering how many ever give any thought to how their wives feel about being with a foreigner.  I really don’t care how one wants to define Mia Farang.  Good, bad, high-class, low-class, hooker or virgin, it really doesn’t matter to me.

 

The question is, do you care, do you know and do you ever talk to your partner about how they really feel and how it affects their lives.  Some will say it doesn’t matter what people say or that they don’t care.  In my experience, those who say that the loudest are the very people who get most upset when people don’t look at them the way they wish to be perceived.

 

Some on here come off as caring partners while others come off misogynistic, at best, in the way they view women.  In the end it is up to each couple to choose how they relate to each other but I can’t help but think there would bet fewer problems with more and better understanding.

[totally thaied up]

My wife told me she has lived in her village for 32 years. Everyone knows who she is and understands her station in life. She said when I came along, a lot of gossip went around the village as she has always lived at home, even when she went to University and they all wondered how she got me. It all died down over time and I am just a farang in the village now and nothing gets said.

 

With some of her newer friends, it effects her life as they talk behind her back but she just keeps her mouth shut but I have seen her put people in their place with some sarcastic comments. With her really old school friends, I just about know all the girls and they respect me now and no issues. It has affected her more being in Australia than at home as soon as my friends hear she is Thai, stereotyping is a given. I mean, one of my friends posted on her Facebook pages how can she enjoy Australia when she is Thai. We were at a 50’s Rock and Roll Dance night and they suggested she could not understand the English music we dance too. Just so much misunderstanding. 

 

I have a very small circle of friends but a large circle of people I know. Some of these people over the years have upset me as in making comments on how could I marry a real ‘geek’. My wife looks like a real computer geek and suffered a major motorcycle accident that has disfigured her. I hate how some people perceive how someone is by looks. Others say she is a kept woman as she is a Ban Nok or housewife now and we had one of her newer friends say how can she let her education go to waste looking after me? My wife still studies to this day and gets much more pleasure out of her life learning and I see nothing wrong in that.

 

Each to their own way. We are all different.

[GinBoy2]

wrong thread

Edited April 15, 2019 by GinBoy2

[GinBoy2]

On 4/13/2019 at 6:50 PM, villagefarang said:

Neither of us have tattoos and would never consider getting one but we do have younger friends who are covered in ink.  We try not to impose our personal choices on others but it is not always easy with strangers.

Well the way I tried to frame it with my kids, was this.

 

I have pictures of me in 1976, wearing clothes I thought were dead cool at the time. Would I wear them now, Hell No!

 

Trouble with tats they are gonna be with you a lifetime, unlike my 1976 wardrobe!

 

Also those tats, that can look nice on tight 20's skin, tend to look a little raggedy on that 50 year old skin