Help for cancellation of single entry non b

[Nikz]

Hi.. I came to Bangkok last year on non B visa and worked few months and was having some issues with work permit and 1 year Non B extension visa. But finally I got it (non B visa valid till May 2019). Later I left Thailand as I got new job offer. When I asked HR she said she will cancel work permit but no need to cancel 1 year extended visa as it is single entry visa and will be automatically cancelled once I leave out of Thailand. Now when I came back and joined new company, the new company facing problems to extend my visa and immigration asked me to cancel the old visa. Please guide me how to follow. Should I call old HR and go to immigration and cancel old Non B visa? . Should I pay fines? 

[ubonjoe]

You apparently had a one year extension of stay based upon working not a non-b visa.

You need a termination letter from your previous employer dated on after the day you left the country to have immigration formally cancel that extension.

No fine since you have already left the country which voided the extension.

 

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

I've been through a similar situation in Bangkok last year. The old company is required to pay a significant fine for failure to cancel, and you are likely to face a very small fine for the same. My old company simply refused to pay the fine, so my only choice was to agree to pay it on their behalf as I had a new job waiting and I didn't want to lose that. You may also face an overstay fine if you didn't leave Thailand by the last day of your employment. 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

I've been through a similar situation in Bangkok last year. The old company is required to pay a significant fine for failure to cancel, and you are likely to face a very small fine for the same. My old company simply refused to pay the fine, so my only choice was to agree to pay it on their behalf as I had a new job waiting and I didn't want to lose that. You may also face an overstay fine if you didn't leave Thailand by the last day of your employment. 

There is no fine for not canceling an extension.

There could be a fine for the work permit not being canceled but it is not very much.

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no fine for not canceling an extension.

There could be a fine for the work permit not being canceled but it is not very much.

Sorry, I didn't make that clear, the fine I paid on behalf of my old company was for the WP and paid to the Labour department. It was 5,000 baht if i recall correctly. The other fine i paid was for overstay. 

[Nikz]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You apparently had a one year extension of stay based upon working not a non-b visa.

You need a termination letter from your previous employer dated on after the day you left the country to have immigration formally cancel that extension.

No fine since you have already left the country which voided the extension.

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm little more confused about my matter as my work permit was cancelled in SEPTEMBER 2018 but I left Thailand in Feb 2019. So will it be a overstay.. But my visa is valid till May 2019. Thats why i stayed back to search another job. Even my company was fine with it. 

[Nikz]

1 minute ago, Nikz said:

Thanks for the reply. I'm little more confused about my matter as my work permit was cancelled in SEPTEMBER 2018 but I left Thailand in Feb 2019. So will it be a overstay.. But my visa is valid till May 2019. Thats why i stayed back to search another job. Even my company was fine with it. 

So apparently.. 

 

1) My work permit was cancelled in September 2018

2) I left Thailand after finding a new job In Feb 2019

3) Came back in Thailand in New non B visa. 

 

Now how can I cancel the previous visa which immigration says its still valid? What are the documents needed for it.. And any fines? If so how much

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Nikz said:

Now how can I cancel the previous visa which immigration says its still valid? What are the documents needed for it.. And any fines? If so how much

My post gave you info for that. As I wrote before you had an extension not a valid visa.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You need a termination letter from your previous employer dated on after the day you left the country to have immigration formally cancel that extension.

No fine since you have already left the country which voided the extension.

You cannot be legally be fined for an overstay since you had already left the country.

[Wilson Smith]

53 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

My post gave you info for that. As I wrote before you had an extension not a valid visa.

You cannot be legally be fined for an overstay since you had already left the country.

I really never want to disagree with Joe as I know you are very informed. However I have experience with this scenario. If his WP was canceled in sept 2018 and he stayed in Thailand until Feb 2019 there will be an overstay penalty even if he exited in Feb without a reentry. That is if he wants to get a new visa.  

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Wilson Smith said:

I really never want to disagree with Joe as I know you are very informed. However I have experience with this scenario. If his WP was canceled in sept 2018 and he stayed in Thailand until Feb 2019 there will be an overstay penalty even if he exited in Feb without a reentry. That is if he wants to get a new visa.  

As I wrote the is no legal way to fineed for a overstay that never occured.

Only if caught in the country with an extension that should of been canceled after the job ended could a person be fined for an overstay.

I am certain that people that have been fined after leaving the country and then returning did not get a overstay stamp or a receipt for the fine.

 

[Wilson Smith]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

As I wrote the is no legal way to fineed for a overstay that never occured.

Only if caught in the country with an extension that should of been canceled after the job ended could a person be fined for an overstay.

I am certain that people that have been fined after leaving the country and then returning did not get a overstay stamp or a receipt for the fine.

 

What i have seen is that a new extension will not be giving until there is a void stamp placed on the old b visa, even if it was with no reentry stamp. In order to get the void stamp he will need to pay for the overstay from the canceled wp date to him leaving the country, Which looks like around 6 months. I believe this is what the new HR is saying.

[Nikz]

If there is a fine, I should pay overstay fine for 6 months? Like 500 per day? 

[Nikz]

28 minutes ago, Wilson Smith said:

I really never want to disagree with Joe as I know you are very informed. However I have experience with this scenario. If his WP was canceled in sept 2018 and he stayed in Thailand until Feb 2019 there will be an overstay penalty even if he exited in Feb without a reentry. That is if he wants to get a new visa.  

How much will be the fine? 

[chrisinth]

14 hours ago, Nikz said:

If there is a fine, I should pay overstay fine for 6 months? Like 500 per day? 

If you have to pay a fine it will be 20,000 baht, that is the limit for overstays. However, if they do deem you have a 6 month overstay, I would be more concerned with a ban under the new guidelines. Ie, anything under 90 days is OK in respect of a ban but over 90 days and under one year would be a one year ban from Thailand.

 

When you returned to Thailand did you do so on the old non-B and did you have a re-entry permit with it? That to me (as an uninformed person) is the only way your extension of stay would remain valid, hence the problems you are having.

[Wilson Smith]

17 hours ago, Nikz said:

If there is a fine, I should pay overstay fine for 6 months? Like 500 per day? 

How to find out is to go to the immigration office that issued you the extension to stay and tell them your story. Based on your first comment your new HR did this already and the news was not good. Ultimately you need this office to stamp a void stamp on your old visa and then you can extended your new visa. The problem with your story is that your wp was canceled and you did not leave the country. Whether you did this thinking you would get away with it or if you were misinformed may not matter.  The question is can you get them to stamp void on the visa without the stiff penalty. 

[Nikz]

3 hours ago, chrisinth said:

If you have to pay a fine it will be 20,000 baht, that is the limit for overstays. However, if they do deem you have a 6 month overstay, I would be more concerned with a ban under the new guidelines. Ie, anything under 90 days is OK in respect of a ban but over 90 days and under one year would be a one year ban from Thailand.

 

When you returned to Thailand did you do so on the old non-B and did you have a re-entry permit with it? That to me (as an uninformed person) is the only way your extension of stay would remain valid, hence the problems you are having.

I went back to my country and applied for a new non B visa and came to Thailand in New non B visa. Now im thinking how can a embassy give me a new non B visa when old one is still valid? As I'm in New non B visa, can they still ask me to pay fine for the previous visa? 

[chrisinth]

20 minutes ago, Nikz said:

I went back to my country and applied for a new non B visa and came to Thailand in New non B visa. Now im thinking how can a embassy give me a new non B visa when old one is still valid? As I'm in New non B visa, can they still ask me to pay fine for the previous visa? 

From what I understand it is not the old non-B visa, this was converted to an extension of stay (?); it appears that the extension is still valid not the old non-B which has likely expired. I'm not sure how this shows up in the immigration database (extensions & visas).

 

As I said earlier, I am in no way an authority on this, I would wait until UJ gets back and address that towards him.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, Nikz said:

I went back to my country and applied for a new non B visa and came to Thailand in New non B visa. Now im thinking how can a embassy give me a new non B visa when old one is still valid? As I'm in New non B visa, can they still ask me to pay fine for the previous visa? 

You did not have a valid non-b visa when you applied for a new visa.

You had an extension of stay that you did not formally have cancelled before leaving the country. That extension became invalid as soon as left the country.

If you can get a termination letter from you previous employer stating you job ended on the date you left the country you could have the extension formally canceled.

As I have stated before the is no fine you can be legally be asked to pay.

[Nikz]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You did not have a valid non-b visa when you applied for a new visa.

You had an extension of stay that you did not formally have cancelled before leaving the country. That extension became invalid as soon as left the country.

If you can get a termination letter from you previous employer stating you job ended on the date you left the country you could have the extension formally canceled.

As I have stated before the is no fine you can be legally be asked to pay.

Ok thank you. My old HR had already gave me a experience letter stating I worked there till Sept. But I think it's not enough as I left Thailand in Feb.. So i think I should ask her for a termination letter stating I left company in Feb.. But i have a slip of work permit cancellation in which date is mentioned as Sept. Will they ask to show the proof of work permit cancellation? 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Nikz

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Nikz said:

Will they ask to show the proof of work permit cancellation? 

Normally they will not ask for it.

Immigration has nothing to do with work permits.

[Nikz]

43 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Normally they will not ask for it.

Immigration has nothing to do with work permits.

Ok great.. Thanks for the info.. I will contact old HR and try to update things

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am certain that people that have been fined after leaving the country and then returning did not get a overstay stamp or a receipt for the fine.

 

I wish that were my experience, but I was fined for an 89 day overstay even though I had left the country previously and returned on a visa-exempt entry. See the attached passport stamp, and I was given at CW together with an official receipt no different from CW's normal receipts.  

[Nikz]

On 4/11/2019 at 3:26 PM, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

I wish that were my experience, but I was fined for an 89 day overstay even though I had left the country previously and returned on a visa-exempt entry. See the attached passport stamp, and I was given at CW together with an official receipt no different from CW's normal receipts.  

Did you come back after the visa validity over or before? 

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:00 AM, Nikz said:

Did you come back after the visa validity over or before? 

TL:DR: I left and came back after the WP expired but before the expiration of the 1-year extension, but I deliberately did not get a re-entry permit when I left as a way to ensure my return visit would not be considered overstay. 

 

Long, drawn out story:

My situation was this:  My final day of work and date on the termination letter matched the expiration date of my Work Permit. My 1-year extension of stay had at least six months left on it before it would have expired. So when I left Thailand 89 days after my final day of work, the date was still several months before the extension of stay's expiration date. The Work Permit still hadn't been cancelled when I left, but I chose not to get a re-entry permit knowing i was coming back to Thailand a week later and would be putting myself at risk of the overstay clock starting to run again and add more days if I re-entered as if I my employment was still ongoing. Anything past 90 days' overstay would have put me in the 1-year ban category. So when I flew in a week later (I picked Chiang Mai after reading others experiences at BKK and DMK), I entered visa-exempt (zero drama at CNX airport), which meant I was now fully compliant for the stay, which kept the overstay from going higher than 89 days. The Work Permit finally got cancelled a few after I returned, Getting a termination letter dated after my true final day of work wasn't an option the ex-employer would have ever been willing to do given the bad blood between us. 

 

   

[Putri711]

Hi Nikz,

Any update from ur case, as my husband going through the same thing. Did u manage to get ur old extension cancel??would like to know how exactly to settle this issue. Thanks.

[overherebc]

I find the whole situation strange re' extensions.

If you have an extension based on work and leave without a re-entry permit the extension will be voided on re-entry and you get 30 days (if entitled) and you then have to apply for a new extension based on a new B single or income? This obviously means the old extension is dead and gone.

 

The 'perceived' crime is not cancelling the extension at Imm?, difficult to avoid if your employer won't give you a termination letter!!

 

The whole situation in the thread just re-enforces my belief and habit in sticking to O multi all the years I worked changing contracts/companies quite a few times without a problem, except for some companies who claimed they had to cancel my 'visa'. I just refused to give them my passport.

 

[Putri711]

Non-O visa/extension only applied to those people married with Thai or Retirement, then they don't have problem as such. This canceling extension is based on for Non-B holder, therefore, they are seeking for any advice from the people who has been through the similiar case. 

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, Putri711 said:

Non-O visa/extension only applied to those people married with Thai or Retirement, then they don't have problem as such. This canceling extension is based on for Non-B holder, therefore, they are seeking for any advice from the people who has been through the similiar case. 

Main point of my post is that any extension will cancelled by Imm' if you don't have a re-entry permit.

So if they cancel it on re-entry to my mind it's gone. You start again with applying for a new extension.

So Imm' void it and then tell you it's still used to apply overstay charges.

My comment on multi O was just an add on. 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

I changed jobs and was instructed to do a border run. I got the document I needed showing my last day of work around 5 pm. No buses out at that time, couldn't fly out. No prob I figured, I heard I had 24 hours, so I did it the next morning. Wrong. Upon going to immigration for my new Non-B, I was fined 500 baht for one day overstay. ????

[Putri711]

I just don't see real way out here, some say will not having problem to stamp "void" the old extension by only present termination letter, some say the immigration officer will caught you for overstay, pay the fine or ban. 

 

That's why I want to know if Nikz managed to cancel his old extension, did he get trouble for his "overstay"?did immigration asked only termination letter?

That's exactly situation I would like to know.