Went to the waterfalls for Songkran but only Thais get in free, not foreigners.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

11 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

Okay, let's say for a moment that they charge brits more than florida locals, does that make it right? Why can't Thailand lead the way and show they are all about equality instead of extortion? Why not set the good example by charging everyone the same fee, regardless of nationality?

 

Many countries around the world do not operate a two tier pricing system. The choice of which way to go is up to Thailand.

 

 

"Disney brings back ticket deal for Florida residents"  Google it.  It is marketing.  Thais are giving natives a price break just like Disney is.  Extortion?  Look up the definition. 

 

You are barking up the wrong tree. 

 

Another flawed argument - That Double Charging elsewhere, no matter how its dressed up is still wrong. 

 

BUT... when people repeatedly use the same flawed argument it highlights the conformation bias you are unable to get past. 

It has already been posted on this thread that Holders of a Florida Driving License can get the 'local residents discount'.... Any Thai, any Englishman, any person from any country in the world can get this discount IF they have a Florida Driving License. 

 

This is very different from charging non-residents 10x the amount and only Residents holding a USA passport are not charged an inflated rate of 10x the going rate.

 

The whole argument and premise you have attempted to present is flawed to the extreme. 

 

 

[Despondent Foreigner]

11 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Is it really charging more to the foreigner or giving a discount to Thais ?

 

If the price is 200 for foreigners and 100 for Thais is that double price or a 50% discount ?

It's the same result either way. The foreigner still pays more.

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Is it really charging more to the foreigner or giving a discount to Thais ?

 

If the price is 200 for foreigners and 100 for Thais is that double price or a 50% discount ?

 

I think if ANYONE (not just Thai's) who could prove they lived in the Province by presenting a house book (or copy of) or a Driving License were given a 50% discount this could be a reasonable... 

 

 

But, Thai's have to prove nothing at National Parks and even if a Foreigner proves they Work in Thailand with a Work Permit and have a Thai Driving License they are not offered a 90% discount - They are still charged 1000% of the Thai Charge. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

36 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

37 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

No, it isn't.

They charge Brits more than Florida residents.  I think that's the same.

 

No it's not, because if a Brit can show he's a Florida Resident (presenting a Florida Driving license) he can get the Florida rate.  

 

He's not 'excluded' because he's a Brit, he's excluded because he does not live in the state.

 

It's quite different... and people are continually tripping over this point. 

 

 

IF Disneyland Florida Charged ALL people with a USA passport $20 and everyone else $200 this would be comparable... But this is not what's going on.

[Odysseus123]

17 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Is it really charging more to the foreigner or giving a discount to Thais ?

 

If the price is 200 for foreigners and 100 for Thais is that double price or a 50% discount ?

Even I won't walk thru the shadow of the valley of death on that one.????

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

23 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Is it really charging more to the foreigner or giving a discount to Thais ?

 

If the price is 200 for foreigners and 100 for Thais is that double price or a 50% discount ?

Even I won't walk thru the shadow of the valley of death on that one.????

 

 No California residents discount for you there? ????

[MeePeeMai]

In Hawaii this would be called a "Tourist Trap" (and rightly so).

 

 

[uhuh]

To instill aversion to foreigners serves to keep Thai nationalism intact. 

Double pricing is just a very small example where the government fosters nationalism. 

It has been doing so since the 30s/40s in order to give the various inhabitants of the country the feeling that they are all Thai. Not Lanna, Khmer or whatever,  no,  we are all Pinong, all Thai, as opposed to foreigners. This kind of thinking was quite successful in keeping internal differences at bay. 

 

[Odysseus123]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 No California residents discount for you there? ????

Sorry..I'm an Aussie but I do appreciate your reference to the Jornada del Muerto desert-or Death Valley?????

 

Nope..and I ain't going to go there...

[balo]

The funny thing is if you are a Westerner with Chinese or Korean roots,  married to a Thai you would probably get in for free. So it's all about the skin color. 

[Odysseus123]

24 minutes ago, balo said:

The funny thing is if you are a Westerner with Chinese or Korean roots,  married to a Thai you would probably get in for free. So it's all about the skin color. 

Not according to a American/Thai/Singaporean poster here several years ago.

 

They spotted him in a flash.

 

It's about even more than skin colour.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Nyezhov]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Sorry mate, but it's not about $1 , it's about the principle.

Paying a different price means feeding racism and xenophobia, i'd rather throw my money in the sea.

The world is full of principles, I guess what I mean to say is some are worth less than others on the grand scale of the universe

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

The world is full of principles, I guess what I mean to say is some are worth less than others on the grand scale of the universe

But this one is huge as you know...being a man of principles...

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

The world is full of principles, I guess what I mean to say is some are worth less than others on the grand scale of the universe

That's right, then i'll add that it's also a bad business practice.

As proven by the OP, it pi**es off not only the foreigners, but even the Thais !

[wilcopops]

It's important to understand that this isn't a race thing, it is a result of blinkered and parochial pouches adopted by uneducated Thai officials who don't understand how to promote Thailand's natural resources.

The whole situation with National parks, waterfalls etc s that they are terribly managed and poorly funded, the practice of 2-tier charging is the kind of nape-of-the-neck thinking that people have in an effort to raise money....the truth is it does NOTHING to help park finances and only stirs up bad feeling in visitors.

 

A report (Japanese, I recall) about 10/15 years ago pointed out that apart from a few maritime parks the dual charging system does nothing to improve income to the parks and also pointed out the Thai visitors to most NPs were capable and prepared to pay a little more and having a single rate fee, this  would increase the numbers of foreigners visiting waterfalls and National Parks and improve finances.

 

Unfortunately the policies of the DNP are old, outdated and not in keeping with modern international methodologies for the management of Parks and other natural resources,

 

(race has nothing to do with it - that is the territory of racists, who are always the first to cy "racism!" themselves)>

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

It's important to understand that this isn't a race thing, it is a result of blinkered and parochial pouches adopted by uneducated Thai officials who don't understand how to promote Thailand's natural resources.

The whole situation with National parks, waterfalls etc s that they are terribly managed and poorly funded, the practice of 2-tier charging is the kind of nape-of-the-neck thinking that people have in an effort to raise money....the truth is it does NOTHING to help park finances and only stirs up bad feeling in visitors.

 

A report (Japanese, I recall) about 10/15 years ago pointed out that apart from a few maritime parks the dual charging system does nothing to improve income to the parks and also pointed out the Thai visitors to most NPs were capable and prepared to pay a little more and having a single rate fee, this  would increase the numbers of foreigners visiting waterfalls and National Parks and improve finances.

 

Unfortunately the policies of the DNP are old, outdated and not in keeping with modern international methodologies for the management of Parks and other natural resources,

 

(race has nothing to do with it - that is the territory of racists, who are always the first to cy "racism!" themselves)>

Race has everything to do with it.

 

Otherwise the sundry points in your post are cogent and well presented.

 

So cogent and well presented that it is amazing that the Thai have never changed the policy.

[olfu]

when I, as farang, claim I am poor people laugh at me.

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Race has everything to do with it.

 

Otherwise the sundry points in your post are cogent and well presented.

 

So cogent and well presented that it is amazing that the Thai have never changed the policy.

If you approach this as a race issue you will never get a solution...its like trying to get a car out of fuel to run by pumping up its tires

[Monomial]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

They charge Brits more than Florida residents.  I think that's the same.

 

No, they don't. They charge non Florida residents more than Florida residents. If you, as a Brit, are a Florida resident and show a Florida driver's license, you get the local deal. If the Thais would do that, nobody here would complain. 

 

There is a huge difference between charging based on residency and charging based on citizenship. They are not the same, and after living here for 20 years it gets tiring listening to people make the same, tired (incorrect) argument.

 

Only Thailand has this policy. Nothing in the USA is like this.,

 

 

[JimmyJ]

This thread has now gone 16 pages.

I never would have predicted this as the issue has been raised in other threads periodically.

 

But is shows how strongly people feel about being ripped off  and about being discriminated against based on their nationality/appearance/skin color.

Understandably.

 

 

Thailand should make the lower price available for Thailand residents, as opposed to "People whose appearance makes us think they are native Thai or could be".

 

Then the OP plus his wife and children would have all gotten the lower rate.

 

Locals in FL who show local ID get the reduction often mentioned at Disney World.

Not "Locals who were born in the US" but "Locals with local ID".

Thailand should do the same if they want to do dual pricing.

 

 

 

[Date Masamune]

There are some fundamentally flawed arguments being presented trying to dress up Double Charging as something other than what it is... 
 
It is not comparable to pensioner discounts. 
It is not comparable to residents discounts.
It is not an issue of money, the money amount is irrelevant to the principle. 
 
When someone is charged extra because they are not from a specific nation the policy is xenophobic.
 
Other fundamentally flawed arguments listed on this forum: 
It happens in other countries. So does kidnapping ! - the fact that it happens elsewhere doesn't make it ok. Using such an argument is flawed.
 
'If you don't like it go home' was one argument used earlier, again, highly flawed, it brings nothing to the debate and quite clearly people wouldn't go home because of a silly double pricing policy. 
 
 
The fact of the matter is that when people are Double Charged it leaves a poor impression especially when that double charged is based on nationality. Especially when the excuses for Double Charging are extremely flawed.  
 
A Westerner Working in Thailand paying taxes should not be double charged at parks.
A Westerner Retiree on anyone on a Non-Immigration Visa should not be double charged at parks.
 
I can't even see a very weak justification for Tourists to be Double Charged for without these very tourists these attractions / parks etc would have significantly less revenue - its akin to biting the hand that feeds you. 
 
 
Now... this Double Charging is not a show stopper... It doesn't stop me from going to Khao Yai or Koh Samet etc...  But, it does leave a poor impression when I'm charged 10x what my Wife is Charged.
 
This also happened to me a Chiang Mai Night Safari - traveling with Thai friends. 
The staff at the gate tried to double charged me. I showed my Thai Driving License and they still wanted to Double Charge me. My friend showed his Police ID and told them it is Illegal for a Private Company to Double Charge foreigners and requested to speak with the Supervisor (Double Charging is actually against the law in Thailand except for a decree which permits double charging at parks) - I was let in for the Thai Price but they were still trying to stiff all the other tourists. 
 
They try the same at Safari World in Bangkok, but they let foreigners with a Thai Driving License in for the Thai Price. 
 
Ultimately - the whole idea of Double Pricing is wrong.... There are no excuses which can dress this up. 
 
 

A great post. Shocked to hear these racist pricing deals are actually illegal. Other than taxis and private medical care it is pretty easy to not get bent over with the rich ForeignerBS, I try to avoid it. If I ever really wanted to go the ridiculous “Night Safari” in Chiangmai after all these years probably would go but I don’t and I’ll pass on the dirty waterfalls and National Parks.
The local discount thing in the US has been absolutely done to death here any Thai with an drivers license would get local discount and in fact they would enjoy every right under law no exaggeration of a citizen except the RIGHT TO VOTE.

[metempsychotic]

20 hours ago, Vacuum said:

He could have stayed somewhere and enjoyed a couple of cold ones, whilst the family went to the waterfall. That's what I would have done (his wife was the driver).

So you would have preferred to be alone with a bottle while your family was doing something else for the holiday. 

[AGareth2]

I'd be happy to pay if my kids had a good time

[Jazz5555]

This is not an issue, it is their national parks, pay the small fee to maintain the park. What I see it is the forigners that make the mess by leaving their rubbish.  Thais pay taxes foreigners don’t 

[4MyEgo]

21 hours ago, Just Weird said:

This has been happening for decades, it's nothing new and chronic whinging about it doesn't help. 

 

Being married to a Thai and having Thai children does not make you Thai so why should it make a difference for you!  And it is nothing to do with the colour of your lilywhite skin, either, white-skinned Thais don't get charged!

Chronic whinging, get your hand off it mate, there is a thing called principal, and everyone should be treated equal, not discriminated against, your comment makes me sick to the core.

 

This is clearly discrimination and I make it a VERY strong point to put Thai's down and in their place when they try something like this on me, suffice to say, I am happy the posters wife told them to shove it, and the sooner farangs boycott any place that charges more than a Thai, regardless of whether they have more money or not, the sooner the pricing will be adjusted accordingly, and everyone treated as an equal.

 

I mean what, if a rich Thai went and they solders knew he/she was rich, would they eye gouge them, I think not, because they are Thai and its their country doesn't make it right, so all foreigners should take a stand and boycott these places until the prices are equal.

 

There are plenty of places to visit for free.

[marcusarelus]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No it's not, because if a Brit can show he's a Florida Resident (presenting a Florida Driving license) he can get the Florida rate.  

 

He's not 'excluded' because he's a Brit, he's excluded because he does not live in the state.

 

It's quite different... and people are continually tripping over this point. 

 

 

IF Disneyland Florida Charged ALL people with a USA passport $20 and everyone else $200 this would be comparable... But this is not what's going on.

Yup you got me there.  Thailand is bad.  They want citizens to see cultural and other attractions and have those rich Foreigners to pay for it. 

[Date Masamune]

A great post above in the US if any business was publicly charging more for visitors because they were not Citizens, people would be really outraged!

[Vacuum]

1 hour ago, metempsychotic said:

So you would have preferred to be alone with a bottle while your family was doing something else for the holiday. 

Well, his wife didn't let him pay. So two options: The family goes to the waterfalls and husband sit "with a bottle" or all of them goes back home or somewhere else.

[Despondent Foreigner]

12 minutes ago, Jazz5555 said:

  Thais pay taxes foreigners don’t 

I pay tax every month through my company, as do many other foreigners I know that live here.

 

Your above statement is a complete fallacy.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Despondent Foreigner

[Kieran00001]

12 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Sorry..I am a little perplexed..

Are you (annd your confederates here) saying that the wealthier Thais should pay more for entrance into the national parks?

 

..and that you (and your confederates) think that might be a good thing?

 

If we could charge them wealthier more than the poorer then that would also work, why not?  But we can't organize that so instead we subsidize all Thai nationals so as not to exclude the poor and then contribute to the parks through taxation, with of course the wealthier paying more.  Why foreigners imagine they should also receive the discount meant to prevent exclusion of the poorest is just an example of Western entitlement and ignorance and you should be ashamed.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Kieran00001