Went to the waterfalls for Songkran but only Thais get in free, not foreigners.

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

Again more nonsense - you have not read anything to suggest this as the maths is just not that simple - if the fees are unified, foreign visitor numbers will increase and as said added value activities once in the parks also increases income - but you have chosen to ignore changes in numbers as well as the amount of funding in proportion the games from government. 

The change required is not just a simple scrapping of the fees for foreigners - (you also need to identify who they are BTW) - it is a total shake up of how the parks are maned with an eye to increased usage accompanied by appropriate conservation safeguards. The amount of foreign tourists who visit national parks outside the "iconic" money-spinners is incredibly small - there are a vast national recsources that at present is at best ignored and even worse abused.......... they get nothing from tours of Phi-Phi etc but they have a lot to offer and with the archaic dual pricing system and management in place no progress cam be made and it is very likely a lot of these natural resources will be diminished or even destroyed.

Quote

there are a vast national recsources that at present is at best ignored and even worse abused

No, they are protecting that land, it just looks ignored because they are ignoring you, the protected area keeps growing, you talk nonsense.

[Kieran00001]

22 minutes ago, donim said:

 

 

The Chief of Tourism Promotion office of the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation, Wanlapha Yuttiwong :

•     She insisted, stipulate that foreigners, regardless of their official status in Thailand, are obliged to pay the foreign price.
•     Foreigners even do not qualify for free entry if under 3 or over 60 years of age.

 

•     Asked why she thought the fees were so high, Ms Wanlapha remarked “We don’t get enough budget from the government to maintain the parks, and lately the number of foreign visitors to national parks has declined.”

And no wondering why?

 

That was five years ago, visitor numbers have since doubled, wondering why?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/big_read/30359219

 

[donim]

45 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

That was five years ago, visitor numbers have since doubled, wondering why?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/big_read/30359219

 

No wonder.

For HKT:

Sweden left together with the peace,

Russian came and they don't giving a 'stool' about others with high level of xenofobia.

 

Except Garage54 and The riotting cats. ????

 

For that article at Nation

"Quoting the Tourism Department"

????

 

 

Anyway, tourism is not about foreigners. It consist of foreigners AND thais.

These numbers says nothing but better welfare with Thai people.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by donim

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

But what would you replace it with?  Would you increase the Thai fee just to make you feel better but in doing so also price out the poorest local people?  Or would you reduce the foreigner fee and lose the billions of baht it has been raising, protecting an additional 4.5 million rai last year alone?

 

It could be replaced with the very simple... those living here in Thailand vs those not (Tourists). 

 

Thus, if you can show a Thai Driving license, House Book, Non-Immigrant Visa you pay the Thai Rate.

This would remove xenophobic edge of such policies and the idea that "You not Thai, you pay more" is ok.

 

It becomes a policy based on where you are living and not what nationality you are and while some may not think this matters it would make for a far less clumsy much better policy and place it more in line with the resident's discounts observed elsewhere globally. 

 

[stevenl]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

 

It could be replaced with the very simple... those living here in Thailand vs those not (Tourists). 

 

Thus, if you can show a Thai Driving license, House Book, Non-Immigrant Visa you pay the Thai Rate.

This would remove xenophobic edge of such policies and the idea that "You not Thai, you pay more" is ok.

 

It becomes a policy based on where you are living and not what nationality you are and while some may not think this matters it would make for a far less clumsy much better policy and place it more in line with the resident's discounts observed elsewhere globally. 

 

"Thus, if you can show a Thai Driving license, House Book, Non-Immigrant Visa you pay the Thai Rate."

Yes, not official policy, but this is already the case. I have never paid more than Thai price after showing WP or Thai DL.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"Thus, if you can show a Thai Driving license, House Book, Non-Immigrant Visa you pay the Thai Rate."

Yes, not official policy, but this is already the case. I have never paid more than Thai price after showing WP or Thai DL.

 

Each and every time I go to Koh Samet - I have to pay the Foreigner price, each time we have the same debate with the 'park-guards'...  They've even tried to charge my Son because he's not 100% Thai !!! (but ultimately conceded with a Thai Passport). 

 

I've also seen the 'Park-guards' in arguments with Chinese tourists who are charging them twice or more... i.e. They have the 'entry ticket' from the previous day, but have excited the park to go to the shops the next day and then reentered the park to their accommodation, the guards stop them telling them their receipt is for yesterday !!! (its apparently a common scam run by the Park Guards on Koh Samet - at a guess I'd suspect that many of them are pocketing the some of the money)

 

 

The Policy pasted below from donim's post also outlines that foreigners regardless of status pay the foreign price... Thus, if you stevenl get the Thai price you may be the exception as at National Parks the Policy is ALL Foreigners pay the foreigner price - it is this policy which is disagreeable. 

 

1 hour ago, donim said:

The Chief of Tourism Promotion office of the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation, Wanlapha Yuttiwong :

•     She insisted, stipulate that foreigners, regardless of their official status in Thailand, are obliged to pay the foreign price.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by richard_smith237

[uhuh]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I have no doubt that the parks could raise more funds through charging Thai people more, the majority of visitors are affluent, however it would exclude some poorer Thai's.

This demonstrates the silliness of the "poor Thai" argument. 

Thais who visit national parks are usually well off and richer than your average farang on a retirement visa.

Poor Thais are not interested in national parks,  they have to work (and they see enough nature in their home villages).

Songkran is the time when the poor don't need to work,  that's why entrance is made free on Songkran.

So on Songkran this argument makes actually sense. 

 

On normal days, this is about nationalism and about the well-off Thais defending their sinecure in this country against farangs.

(Guess why you cannot buy land here?)

[donim]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"Thus, if you can show a Thai Driving license, House Book, Non-Immigrant Visa you pay the Thai Rate."

Yes, not official policy, but this is already the case. I have never paid more than Thai price after showing WP or Thai DL.

I have had the same results in HKT, but not in Kalasin, centre of Bangkok or Pattaya.

[Despondent Foreigner]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Each and every time I go to Koh Samet - I have to pay the Foreigner price, each time we have the same debate with the 'park-guards'...  They've even tried to charge my Son because he's not 100% Thai !!! (but ultimately conceded with a Thai Passport). 

 

I've also seen the 'Park-guards' in arguments with Chinese tourists who are charging them twice or more... i.e. They have the receive for park entry the previous day, but have excited the park to go to the shops the next day and then reentered the park to their accommodation, he guards stop them telling them their receipt is for yesterday !!! (its apparently a common scam run by the Park Guards on Koh Samet).

 

 

The Policy pasted below from donim's post also outlines that foreigners regardless of status pay the foreign price... Thus, if you stevenl get the Thai price you may be the exception as at National Parks the Policy is ALL Foreigners pay the foreigner price - it is this policy which is disagreeable. 

 

 

 

Seems like you have a degree in hitting the nail on the head.

 

Nice work Richard.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Each and every time I go to Koh Samet - I have to pay the Foreigner price, each time we have the same debate with the 'park-guards'...  They've even tried to charge my Son because he's not 100% Thai !!! (but ultimately conceded with a Thai Passport). 

 

I've also seen the 'Park-guards' in arguments with Chinese tourists who are charging them twice or more... i.e. They have the 'entry ticket' from the previous day, but have excited the park to go to the shops the next day and then reentered the park to their accommodation, the guards stop them telling them their receipt is for yesterday !!! (its apparently a common scam run by the Park Guards on Koh Samet - at a guess I'd suspect that many of them are pocketing the some of the money)

 

 

The Policy pasted below from donim's post also outlines that foreigners regardless of status pay the foreign price... Thus, if you stevenl get the Thai price you may be the exception as at National Parks the Policy is ALL Foreigners pay the foreigner price - it is this policy which is disagreeable. 

 

 

 

No, not a scam.

 

It is an entrance fee, when you exit the park you are not in the park anymore and thus have to pay entrance again. Same applies to other national parks. If a ticket is issued there is no scam.

 

Agree with you, the official policy should change. But that policy announcement is from I think 5 years ago, and is in my experience not adhered to.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, not a scam.

 

It is an entrance fee, when you exit the park you are not in the park anymore and thus have to pay entrance again. Same applies to other national parks. If a ticket is issued there is no scam.

 

Agree with you, the official policy should change. But that policy announcement is from I think 5 years ago, and is in my experience not adhered to.

 

We disagree - its most defiantly a Scam... For when I and my friends exit to the shops and re-enter they ask to see my Park entry receipt and I'm waved through without issue.

 

Why is it that Thai's are never asked to show their Tickets????  It's easy to spot the 'arrivals' to the park as they enter the park at the same point usually on foot (with a bag) or on a Songthaew (loaded with baggage). 

 

Specifically on Koh Samet I've seen Chinese tourists targeted for this (I've had breakfast in the Funky Monkey bar) and watched this repeatedly unfold. 

 

While I don't usually adhere to 'its a scam against foreigner's' when a Westerner is stopped without a helmet on a motorbike etc and I'm usually one of those arguing how Westerners are treated fairly equally by the Police in Thailand etc...  in this case it's most clearly a racket to profit specifically from Chinese who are re-entering the park - the difference is very clear to see. 

 

I was last in a park in November (Koh Samet), I was charged the Foreigner price (no allowances for Drivers license / WP etc)

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by richard_smith237

[baansgr]

4 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Nothing to do with citizens, you need to have residency.  It is perfectly legal in the US to provide discounts for residents, Disney etc do just that, so your claim is demonstratively false.

Resodents of the state as they pay state taxes....not residents of the US per se

[uhuh]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 tourist visitors at the most expensive parks has doubled in the past 10 years and bring in 3 billion baht in tickets while at the same parks Thai's bring in about 600 million in tickets.  

These are interesting figures that certainly support your argument ( but you talk about fees for tourists,  which is not what this thread is mainly about).

May I ask where you get these figures from and what kind of "parks" they refer to? (I suspect it is Koh Samet, Similan and similar tourist traps, sorry, attractions... but I really don't know)

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We disagree - its most defiantly a Scam... For when I and my friends exit to the shops and re-enter they ask to see my Park entry receipt and I'm waved through without issue.

 

Why is it that Thai's are never asked to show their Tickets????  It's easy to spot the 'arrivals' to the park as they enter the park at the same point usually on foot (with a bag) or on a Songthaew (loaded with baggage). 

 

Specifically on Koh Samet I've seen Chinese tourists targeted for this (I've had breakfast in the Funky Monkey bar) and watched this repeatedly unfold. 

 

While I don't usually adhere to 'its a scam against foreigner's' when a Westerner is stopped without a helmet on a motorbike etc and I'm usually one of those arguing how Westerners are treated fairly equally by the Police in Thailand etc...  in this case it's most clearly a racket to profit specifically from Chinese who are re-entering the park - the difference is very clear to see. 

 

 

Doesn't make it a scam.

 

The difference might be that they know Thai and westerners would make a big stink, Chinese less so. But they are in their right.

 

Do they get a ticket? If not I agree, it is a scam and even worse, they are pocketing the money.

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, donim said:

 

 

The Chief of Tourism Promotion office of the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation, Wanlapha Yuttiwong :

•     She insisted, stipulate that foreigners, regardless of their official status in Thailand, are obliged to pay the foreign price.
•     Foreigners even do not qualify for free entry if under 3 or over 60 years of age.

 

•     Asked why she thought the fees were so high, Ms Wanlapha remarked “We don’t get enough budget from the government to maintain the parks, and lately the number of foreign visitors to national parks has declined.”

And no wondering why?

National parks....surely nationals should pay for the upkeep

[uhuh]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by uhuh

[Odysseus123]

I had a yellow book,pink Id and D/L it made absolutely no difference-nor did it with any other "foreigner" who I knew.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, donim said:

I have had the same results in HKT, but not in Kalasin, centre of Bangkok or Pattaya.

What National Parks are there in the Centre of Bangkok or Pattaya?

 

IF you are talking about Double Pricing exercised by shops or attractions, then this is not government sanctioned and is in-fact illegal. 

 

In Central Bangkok there is Double Pricing at places like Kidzania (kids play area), but tourists can also go online and get 'discounted tickets' from Websites, early bird discounts, people (anyone) can get 50% discounts with an Air-Asia boarding pass, these same discounts are open to all. 

IF you just turn up you will pay a higher rate and there are two rates - one for Thai Residents (i.e. show a Thai DL and you get the Thai resident rate) and another rate for Non Thai's (i.e. Tourists) which is about 20% more. 

 

I have no encountered double pricing beyond this in Bangkok and where it does exist its not a significant percentage and there is a work around by purchasing earlier, from a 'promotion vendor' or with a certain credit card (usually Thai) showing a Thai Drivers license. 

 

The whole argument about the parks is that they do not offer Foreign residents of Thailand the same concession which blows up the whole tax argument etc. 

[uhuh]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

No idea what you're talking about, is there a difference in hospital prices between tourists and people living here?

Yes.

Not in every hospital,  though,  but it is very common. 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, baansgr said:

National parks....surely nationals should pay for the upkeep

 

No... I disagree. Everyone visiting should pay for the upkeep, everyone is getting equal benefit from the parks and should pay equally. 

 

But there is an issue where the government wants more income to support the parks... they've decided this additional income can from from foreigners - this ideology is xenophibic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, uhuh said:

Yes.

Not in every hospital,  though,  but it is very common. 

So the person I was responding to was wrong, since he claimed I was paying higher prices.

[UASCB500BIKER]

On my Moto I  could vist 3 waterfalls and a Natural Park ...........COST,,,,?????  or  NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!       300B===500B...Fees........ No  Thank  UUUUU.....Ride ON !!!!!!   Boy=Cott Thai RipOffs..........

[uhuh]

2 hours ago, luis888 said:

Absolute bullshit, so in your theory, because you have more money than the Thais it's fine to pay more, so you should pay more for everything. You should pay double or 10 times more when you go to Big C, Tesco,  the cinema, put fuel in your vehicle,  etc. 

Haven't you noticed that you actually do this? Not double or 10 times, more like 20 or 30% more for almost everything. 

I recommend you to sit in a certain hotel lobby for a couple of hours and watch the dismay of Thais when they learn that they must pay the same room rate as foreigners. Very entertaining ????

But then,  farangs like to haggle about prices,  Thais just pay the asking price - so in the end it evens out.

[uhuh]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So the person I was responding to was wrong, since he claimed I was paying higher prices.

Tourists often pay more in hospitals then residents

[donim]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What National Parks are there in the Centre of Bangkok or Pattaya?

 

IF you are talking about Double Pricing exercised by shops or attractions, then this is not government sanctioned and is in-fact illegal. 

Right pointed, it is not a part of one of the national parks but it feels like it with Dusit Zoo (currently closed) and the Floating market in pattaya.

Greater Bangkok does have smaller 'national parks', but personally no experience with these.

The one Kalasin is one of the true National Parks.

 

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

In Central Bangkok there is Double Pricing at places like Kidzania (kids play area), but tourists can also go online and get 'discounted tickets' from Websites, early bird discounts, people (anyone) can get 50% discounts with an Air-Asia boarding pass, these same discounts are open to all. 

As I already said in an early post, a workaround is ordering online on the thai language websites, 7eleven or let a Thai pickup the tickets.

 

 

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF you just turn up you will pay a higher rate and there are two rates - one for Thai Residents (i.e. show a Thai DL and you get the Thai resident rate) and another rate for Non Thai's (i.e. Tourists) which is about 20% more. 

The zoo is 50% more. 

Same for the fun parks, and the packages they are pushing. But that's for another thread.

 

[uhuh]

46 minutes ago, uhuh said:

These are interesting figures that certainly support your argument ( but you talk about fees for tourists,  which is not what this thread is mainly about).

May I ask where you get these figures from and what kind of "parks" they refer to? (I suspect it is Koh Samet, Similan and similar tourist traps, sorry, attractions... but I really don't know)

I have read the article in the Nation. 

 

There is a problem lumping together 1st 100% commercialised places like Similan and Samet where the money is made, 2nd the protection of elephants and tigers that Kieran talks about and 3rd your run-of-the-mill national park consisting of one poor dirty waterfall surrounded by some scrub, that seems to be the place OP was talking about. 

 

Personally, I am not interested in watching Chinese in Similan so i don't go there.  

I am not CEO of Italthai so i don't go shooting tigers (do they really have tigers in Thailand, the kingdom of make-believe?)

But it has always pissed me off that every very minor attraction here is called a national park, be it a dino in Khonkaen or a waterfall in Krabi.

I have learned to avoid whatever TAT and lonely planet recommend,  because when I really go there it usually turns out to be a national park even it is a completely boring place

Edited April 15, 2019 by uhuh

[connda]

Welcome to Thailand.  If there is nothing keeping you here, like family, it's probably a good time to reassess other foreign countries to live in that are actually expat and foreigner friendly - as you have just discovered, Thailand is not one of them. 
Have a great Sonkran! 

[LukKrueng]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:39 AM, Despondent Foreigner said:

Does that make it right then? Imagine this kind of thing happening in the UK or the states to asian people.. There would be absolute uproar and rightly so! Free for Americans but asians must pay! Could you imagine?? CBS news would have a meltdown!

 

 

it has nothing to do with ethnicity. It's about nationality. Become a thai citizen and you'd go in for free or same price as all other thai people. other foreign Asians have to pay the higher price as well.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, LukKrueng said:

it has nothing to do with ethnicity. It's about nationality. Become a thai citizen and you'd go in for free or same price as all other thai people. other foreign Asians have to pay the higher price as well.

And it is this very point which makes it a xenophobic policy.... Its discriminates based on Nationality and not based on residency which would still be unfair, however, given the arguments presented in support of dual pricing charging based on residency could be considered morally tolerable.

[alex8912]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:28 AM, Despondent Foreigner said:

My wife was driving. She refused to let me pay. 

Only because she knew you would moan and cause a hissy fit. Your wife is one mature woman. She knew as well as you that this was coming. I mean really the whole car load was full of Thais who would get in for free and you. Completely selfish of you. Look at you running to TVF for support!  As judge Judy says RIDICULOUS!!