Went to the waterfalls for Songkran but only Thais get in free, not foreigners.

[ExpatOne]

Your white pride and sense of entitlement ruined the experience for everyone else. Way to go.

 

This is their country, not yours. They should get in free. Getting married and having a kid doesn’t make you a Thai. It simply makes you married with a kid. 

 

 

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOne said:

Your white pride and sense of entitlement ruined the experience for everyone else. Way to go.

 

This is their country, not yours. They should get in free. Getting married and having a kid doesn’t make you a Thai. It simply makes you married with a kid. 

So presumably you'd be fine if it happened in reverse in your homeland?

Troll!

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

 Never said the system is perfect--just said I don't have a problem with a different price structure for citizens vs. non-citizens.  

 

I don't think many have a problem with actually having to pay a little more, thats not the point, its never about the money. 

 

The issue is the Government sanctioning double pricing. This sends out the message to Thai society that it's acceptable.

 

So, what happens when we as foreigners are charged more for other things? Taxi's? Using the BTS/MRT? What happen's when is becomes the norm to double charge foreigners in restaurants and other aspects of our lives?

 

At the moment 'Double charging' is not enough of an issue to cause concern. Although it is enough to generate a 27 page thread, so there's definitely enough opinion on the matter. 

 

I for one enjoy living here, part of the reason for that is the equal and indifferent treatment I encounter, just fitting in as a normal part of society, I never receive negative treatment. However, these Policies can potentially fuel negativity towards foreigners - it is those of us with this foresight that do not like this policy, not for what it is now, but for what it can potentially lead to. 

 

So, while there are those on this forum who suggest "its not big deal don't let it bother with your day" or similar sentiment they have missed the potential for a greater issue which could ultimately impact them. 

 

Some of the more common comments I read on ThaiVisa.com is that "Thai's don't like us" I disagree with these comments and find that in general Thai's do like us, or rather, they don't  dislike us... But as I see this comment more and more I can only imagine that there is a gentle shift in attitudes towards foreigners, whether this is true or not cannot be accurately evaluated on the basis of some forum comments, however, if there is a shift in how foreigners are viewed in Thailand then without doubt Government sanctioned policies to Double-charge foreigners contributes sweepingly towards these attitudes.

 

 

[Seth1a2a]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

Afaik a naturalized Thai is a citizen second class and does not have full rights.

For example he can't work in a Thai government job, so how would becoming a Thai citizen help changing laws?

If being able to vote does not help change laws then I don't have any other recommendations to suggest.

"Elections in Thailand

The voter must be a national of Thailand; if not by birth, then by being a citizen for 5 years. They must be over 18 years old the year before the year the election is held. The voter must have also registered ninety days before the election at his constituency."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Seth1a2a

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, ExpatOne said:

Your white pride and sense of entitlement ruined the experience for everyone else. Way to go.

 

This is their country, not yours. They should get in free. Getting married and having a kid doesn’t make you a Thai. It simply makes you married with a kid. 

 

 

Next time you go for dinner, lets see how your 'White pride and sense of entitlement' handles it if a restaurant wants to charge you double the going rate for a bowl of noodles...

 

Thats the issue with Overcharging of foreigners (known as Double Charging) in this case based on Nationality - the excuses used to justify it are often flawed.

 

Whether the Op is married or with kids is completely irrelevant to the point of double charging - if he is a resident here it's unfair he pays more. 

 

 

 

 

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, Seth1a2a said:

 

 

Elections in Thailand

The voter must be a national of Thailand; if not by birth, then by being a citizen for 5 years. They must be over 18 years old the year before the year the election is held. The voter must have also registered ninety days before the election at his constituency.

 

Having one vote out of millions to elect a party who will maybe do what they promised to do helps what? And what if none of the parties has "get rid of double pricing" on their agenda?

I could create my own party, which has this on the agenda. Or i could start working at the department of national parks. But afaik both is not possible as a naturalized citizen.

[Seth1a2a]

40 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Having one vote out of millions to elect a party who will maybe do what they promised to do helps what? And what if none of the parties has "get rid of double pricing" on their agenda?

I could create my own party, which has this on the agenda. Or i could start working at the department of national parks. But afaik both is not possible as a naturalized citizen.

That a naturalized Thai citizen would pay the Thai price is the point most relevant to this thread. 

Also accurately pointed out by Newnative is the fact that Thais are charged on a different scale  than other  nationalities when they enter my country as tourists compared to my free visa on arrival or even the paltry amount I pay to extend it.    

[spidermike007]

It is a despicable habit, to charge foreigners ten times what the Thais pay. To say it does not make you feel welcome here does not even begin to describe it. There should be special provisions for ex-pats who live here. If you present a Thai drivers license, that should entitled you to get the normal price. It is about basic respect and civility. I am not talking about tourists. That is different. The same applies to foreigners in the US, who can prove residency. They are treated just like the locals, and to do otherwise is offensive, and illegal. However, nothing that is done to foreigners here is ever considered offensive by this very offensive, racist, xenophobic, and fearful administration. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by spidermike007

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don't think many have a problem with actually having to pay a little more, thats not the point, its never about the money. 

 

The issue is the Government sanctioning double pricing. This sends out the message to Thai society that it's acceptable.

 

So, what happens when we as foreigners are charged more for other things? Taxi's? Using the BTS/MRT? What happen's when is becomes the norm to double charge foreigners in restaurants and other aspects of our lives?

 

At the moment 'Double charging' is not enough of an issue to cause concern. Although it is enough to generate a 27 page thread, so there's definitely enough opinion on the matter. 

 

I for one enjoy living here, part of the reason for that is the equal and indifferent treatment I encounter, just fitting in as a normal part of society, I never receive negative treatment. However, these Policies can potentially fuel negativity towards foreigners - it is those of us with this foresight that do not like this policy, not for what it is now, but for what it can potentially lead to. 

 

So, while there are those on this forum who suggest "its not big deal don't let it bother with your day" or similar sentiment they have missed the potential for a greater issue which could ultimately impact them. 

 

Some of the more common comments I read on ThaiVisa.com is that "Thai's don't like us" I disagree with these comments and find that in general Thai's do like us, or rather, they don't  dislike us... But as I see this comment more and more I can only imagine that there is a gentle shift in attitudes towards foreigners, whether this is true or not cannot be accurately evaluated on the basis of some forum comments, however, if there is a shift in how foreigners are viewed in Thailand then without doubt Government sanctioned policies to Double-charge foreigners contributes sweepingly towards these attitudes.

 

 

I agree with the last paragraph. There is a putrid, nasty stench that emanates from Bangkok, and the current administration. It is the smell of racism, and it filters down. The people generally like us. But, if they hear the xenophobic diatribes often enough, from men of tremendous fear and ignorance, like the biggest joke and Prayuth, it does have an effect. It is not a healthy trend. The government here is toxic. 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

It is a despicable habit, to charge foreigners ten times what the Thais pay. To say it does not make you feel welcome here does not even begin to describe it. There should be special provisions for ex-pats who live here. If you present a Thai drivers license, that should entitled you to get the normal price. It is about basic respect and civility. The same applies to foreigners in the US, who can prove residency. They are treated just like the locals, and to do otherwise is offensive, and illegal. However, nothing that is done to foreigners here is ever considered offensive by this very offensive, racist, xenophobic, and fearful administration. 

Whist I agree with you...perfectly evident when the forever incumbent present Thai gov't came to power and promptly abolished BOTH medical and burial insurance for foreigners at a local level-I do not see why it will change.

 

The reason for that is self evident but bears repeating-they have got you by the short and curlies and they are not ever going to let you go..

[uhuh]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It is a despicable habit, to charge foreigners ten times what the Thais pay. To say it does not make you feel welcome here does not even begin to describe it.

You really are not welcome. Don't you get it?

How much more proof do you need?

And why do so many farang desperately want to feel welcome in a country where they are not welcome?

[uhuh]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 The people generally like us. 

Very wrong.

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, uhuh said:

Very wrong.

Very much so,indeed.

[Crossy]

It took me a little time to find it, but for those interested the my stonehenge example:-

 

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/siteassets/home/visit/places-to-visit/stonehenge/plan-your-visit/s1-1_3214_local-residents-flyer-stonehenge.pdf

 

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It took me a little time to find it, but for those interested the my stonehenge example:-

 

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/siteassets/home/visit/places-to-visit/stonehenge/plan-your-visit/s1-1_3214_local-residents-flyer-stonehenge.pdf

 

Please..stop being mendacious.

 

This is restricted to a few local parishes.

 

No wonder that it took 154 years to find it.

 

Of course,if it takes 154 years to come up with such an excuse-you are perfectly fitted to live in Thailand.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Odysseus123

[uhuh]

Thanks for posting. 

But de facto what happens at Thai national parks is more like: all blonde blue-eyed people with freckles can get into Stonehenge for free, people with black hair must pay if the cashier feels like it, slant-eyed people must always pay

[Crossy]

It really wasn't the best example (I'll try harder next time), it's only in my mind because I had a local pass years ago, I visited the stones a whole once.

 

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, papa al said:

In America, discounts for senior citizens, military, and disabled are common.

Pretty disgusting discrimination, right?.

????

as opposed to a ten-fold surcharge? Different thing altogether

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, papa al said:

They [parks] can do what they want too.

THe fees for National Parks are the same nationwide and set by the DNP and Government...... the parks cannot charge what the like.

[wilcopops]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It took me a little time to find it, but for those interested the my stonehenge example:-

 

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/siteassets/home/visit/places-to-visit/stonehenge/plan-your-visit/s1-1_3214_local-residents-flyer-stonehenge.pdf

 

This is free access for locals and discounts for certain groups - how is this the same as or even comparable to a ten-fold surcharge for foreigners?

[wilcopops]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It really wasn't the best example (I'll try harder next time), it's only in my mind because I had a local pass years ago, I visited the stones a whole once.

 

It's a very good example of how to run your national heritage in a fair and responsible way..... it in no way justifies the policies persued in Thailand

[Odysseus123]

17 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It really wasn't the best example (I'll try harder next time), it's only in my mind because I had a local pass years ago, I visited the stones a whole once.

 

Get real.

 

The crux of the matter is this.Do you feel comfortable in a country which actively discriminates against you?If you do, having "balanced all,brought all to mind.." then of course,best of luck.

 

If you don't then you should move on (because they are not going to change their ways) and perhaps come back to appreciate the country as a tourist as I do.  but I would never live full time in Thailand again.After all,if you have to come up with an example from George the 3rd then it really is not worth responding to.

 

I refuse to get flustered about evident discrimination against foreigners because it is there and in your face so that your choices are strictly limited.

 

All the reasons offered are such a hoot- I really don't mean to insult anyone but it is just that-a laugh.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Odysseus123

[donim]

13 hours ago, roquefort said:

You're not in Kansas now, Dorothy. BTW when I was a kid parts of the US were still practising apartheid.

 

Wouldn't it be nice, our childrens in Thailand can say exactly the same?

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Seth1a2a said:

That a naturalized Thai citizen would pay the Thai price is the point most relevant to this thread. 

Also accurately pointed out by Newnative is the fact that Thais are charged on a different scale  than other  nationalities when they enter my country as tourists compared to my free visa on arrival or even the paltry amount I pay to extend it.    

 

Are you comparing Visa Charges to Double Pricing?... Why not complain justify Double Charging with the price difference of Cars in other countries? or any other Price Difference, or Tax differences?

 

 

My Thai Wife gets entry into Europe with a Schengen Visa for Free. 

A <6month Visa to the UK is now £93 (3870 baht).

A 6month ME visa for Thailand is now £125 (5200 bhat)

 

My Wife's 10 year UK Visit Visa was expensive but we chose it because its more convenient when we make so many visits (about 25,000 baht I think at the time - its now £798 (33,000 baht)

 

A Thai Visa Non-Immigrant type 0-A is £125 per year (x10 to place it on par with a UK Visa is obviously a lot more) 

A UK Indefinite leave to remain costs £2297 (no hoops to jump through every year and you can work)

Staying in Thailand is cheaper if you intend to live here for less than 18 years, but you have to extend the visa each year and can only do so if Married, of retirement age or have a dependent - and then you can't work. 

 

I paid 1 Million Baht for an Elite Visa in Thailand - its now 500,000 baht for 5 years (although not really comparable)

 

Thus: Your comparison of 'free Visa' stamp on arrival is an extremely poor example when attempting to justify double pricing and overcharging of Non Thais and and Foreign Thai Residents at National parks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

It took me a little time to find it, but for those interested the my stonehenge example:-

 

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/siteassets/home/visit/places-to-visit/stonehenge/plan-your-visit/s1-1_3214_local-residents-flyer-stonehenge.pdf

 

This is free access for locals and discounts for certain groups - how is this the same as or even comparable to a ten-fold surcharge for foreigners?

 

In your Stonehenge Example...  approximately 30,000 local residents who've applied for a yearly pass can access the site for free. 

To obtain the yearly pass you must present a Local Utility bill (proving you are resident) and ID proving your local utility bill is yours. 

 

It's open to any nationality and and extremely fair way of applying a local residents discounted or free access. 

 

I on the other hand, being British, but not being a local resident have to pay the same charges to access Stonehenge as any other visitor. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by richard_smith237

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

In your Stonehenge Example...  approximately 30,000 local residents who've applied for a yearly pass can access the site for free. 

To obtain the yearly pass you must present a Local Utility bill (proving you are resident) and ID proving your local utility bill is yours. 

 

It's open to any nationality and and extremely fair way of applying a local residents discounted or free access. 

 

I on the other hand, being British, but not being a local resident have to pay the same charges to access Stonehenge as any other visitor. 

 

 

 

 

He knows that.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

6 hours ago, papa al said:

In America, discounts for senior citizens, military, and disabled are common.

Pretty disgusting discrimination, right?.

????

as opposed to a ten-fold surcharge? Different thing altogether

 

Agreed, a totally different thing...   some are simply unable to present a sensible argument and instead attempt to switch to an emotive examples in a flawed attempt to emotionally distort the issue at hand... 

 

 

IF there are discounts for Senior Citizens at Thai National Parks (I believe there are?) then these same discounts should exist for Non National Residents, the same goes for the disabled. Although I'm not sure the Military should get discounts in foreign countries, but in their home country, of course, I'd also throw in Teachers and care workers, charity workers. 

[donim]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

   I don't see a different price structure for citizens and non-citizens as a 'failing'.  Common sense to me to charge foreigners more. 

I see the grey area between non-citizens and foreign-visitors is wide and many of the non-visitors-noncitizens are feeling more citizens then just visitors.

 

That is where the shoe wrings.

 

 

4 hours ago, newnative said:

As far as America goes, here's one example.  If you're Canadian, or from some other select countries, the admission charge to America is free.  If you are Thai, or from 150 or so other countries, the admission charge is $160.  Fair?  Debatable. 

Debatbale.. indeed.

 

The people are then visitors, it is the same in a part of Europe (Schengen) and South-East Asia (Asean), from neighbouring countries. Political agreements for a suistainable cooperation between them.

 

We are talking about people 'residing' (temporary status) in these countries.

 

4 hours ago, newnative said:

But, if the price is too steep, vote with your feet and visit another country.  Same with Thai attractions that have a different price for foreigners--if you think it's too expensive, don't go.

The price is right for visitors, not for those who lives here as a part of the Kingdom.

(either policitial, relational, maternal, paternal, billateral, anything AL)

 

 

And , a little offtopic but still related. The UNESCO, UNESCAP and UN agreements. Accesibility and support for the disableds, the UN says there is no border in the agreement but here it is still 'Only for nationals'.  And not to forget elder people, and enfants. The only exception now is mostly given to (exchange) students.

 

This thread is about 'normal' people, not about disableds or older people. Some people did mentoin about western countries gives discounts to these groups and YES that is fair and happens here too for the Thais, but not the subject now.

 

Rgds,

 

[natway09]

Have you guys lost your marbles...?

Many countries have free access to their attractions for their citizens yet charge foreigners (tourists) including Japan & NZ

Stop Thai bashing , just pay the 200 Bht & keep your blood pressure under control

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Seth1a2a said:

That a naturalized Thai citizen would pay the Thai price is the point most relevant to this thread. 

Also accurately pointed out by Newnative is the fact that Thais are charged on a different scale  than other  nationalities when they enter my country as tourists compared to my free visa on arrival or even the paltry amount I pay to extend it.    

You enter your own country on what?