Do you believe in God and why

[Woof999]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Sorry, Woof.  I was out of line with my response.  I read you wrong.

No problem at all. Somewhere outside of all of these possibilities, we're all on the same side.

[Sunmaster]

52 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

do you think it is at all possible that the spiritual world is just a state of mind, a figment of your imagination that you would love to be real because it allows you to answers questions that, without other means, cannot be answered?

I think I'm qualified enough to try to answer this question based on my own experience. 

 

I stated before that roughly 25 years ago I had this shift in perception. At that point I considered myself an atheist with zero trust in any religion and I had no idea what spirituality was all about. My life was all about girls, friends, music and parties.

 

This shift was so radical and transformative that it changed my whole worldview. It was only AFTER, that I started reading up on what had happened to me and try to make some sense of it. I found out that it was called kundalini awakening, and that it was some kind of energy that resides at the base of the spine. It is sometimes released during acute trauma, near death experiences or as a result of meditation, for example.

 

Now, if this experience would have been all a result of my imagination, how come it coincides so neatly with other people's stories? People throughout history and different places.

Remember, I had no idea about it beforehand. 

 

So, my dilemma was...could I have somehow tapped into some sort of mass hallucination, that affects random individuals in time and space? And how comes these hallucinations all point towards the same principles of unity, love, transcendence and interconnectedness? Science had absolutely no answers for me.

 

Or is it more plausible that the kundalini is indeed a real thing, just like it was described in certain old books and relived again and again by people around the world? These people, normal people like you and me, with no spiritual background whatsoever, described their own experience and it matched my own almost perfectly. How is that possible?

 

You will probably roll your eyes at this, but the whole thing was infinitely more real than the reality I'm in right now. It was therefore impossible to discard it as a mere figment of my imagination. And it was therefore impossible to deny the existence of this other, spiritual dimension of which we are part of, just like we are part of the physical world.

 

How would you explain it?

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Nothing is beyond criticism.

If I may make an assessment I would say that the seeming dilemma the science-minded here have is that it has to be one or the other.  It's either science or spirituality - or whatever other meaningless label one wants to apply to subjective reality.  The science-minded cannot accept unscientific ideas and assume that if one doesn't adhere strictly to scientific principles then they conclude, erroneously, that those folk are anti-science.  Rubbish.

The posters here coexist with both science and un-science (I just made up a new word).  There's a place in this world, an important place, for both.  Science-minded folks appear to believe that it's gotta be science ONLY.  Again, rubbish.

It's not rubbish if you can get your mind around what science is. Your subjective experience is a little bit of science. You have felt or sensed certain things and drawn conclusions and , unless you are irrational, that is somewhat scientific. You can't get to the next stage of providing objective proof for whatever reason. So you can say, my subjective experience was so strong and alarming that I believe it is a sign of something such as god, and I accept others won't believe it if they haven't had the same experience. That's enough. Science isn't wrong not to stand on the roof tops and say Tippaporn experienced this so we should all believe it. It is what it is. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The problem there, Fat is a type of crazy, is that you cannot measure, statistically or otherwise, subjective reality.  Yoga may or not benefit a person.  If one believes that yoga will then yoga will.  If one believes that yoga won't, or can't, then no benefits are possible to be derived.  To test statistically whether or not yoga is beneficial for anyone who practices it one must first know what everyone's true beliefs about yoga are.  And that, sir, is an impossibility.

The same for kundulini.

The stickler here, Fat is a type of crazy, is the idea that thoughts have zero effects upon one's experience, let alone on reality itself.  It's really a contradiction in play here.  On the one hand no one believes that changing one's beliefs would change their experience - because thoughts can't do that - while on the other hand recognising quite clearly instances where the effects of thoughts on experience are quite clear.  What is a hypochondriac, for instance?  Everyone recognises and accepts the fact that people with no symptoms can produce illness via an irrational fear of illness.  There are two separate, and contradictory beliefs in play, both held in the mind of the individual.  And they flip from one to the other without the slightest awareness of holding contradictory beliefs simultaneously.

Science works great when it applies itself to the purely objective world.  That world is, after all, very r-e-a-l and very functional, too.  It works as it does due to the laws which govern objective reality.  Science has made great strides in divining those laws which exist.  Yet science fails miserably as soon as it attempts to cross into subjective territory.  It fails miserably because science believes subjective reality to be untrustworthy, unpredictable, and therefore unreliable.  So why, then, Fat is a type of crazy, is it then inappropriate to criticise science?  It's almost like taking the attitude of those devoutly religious who consider it blasphemy to criticise God.  Is science God, too, in that sense?  Beyond anyone's critique of it?

Science is wonderful.  While at the same time science sucks.  It's not some paradox which can't be solved.
 

I totally accept that thoughts can affect our experience of life and have said so. Psychology. Psychiatry. Feelings.   I can't see a link between thoughts and some unknown power that results in a new reality. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I don't criticize science because I have a grudge or agenda towards it. Far from that. I appreciate science just like you. The idea that if one is interested in spirituality he must reject science, is a fairytale. 

I know science is not hindering me and I'm not seeking for science to validate my subjective experiences. 

The problem is that whenever we talk about such experiences, the white knights of scientific inquiry here state quite unequivocally that these experiences are worthless/delusions/attempts at manipulating gullible people/ outright deceptions/lies/crazy-talk/mumbo jumbo....take your pick.

So, while you say that science as a discipline is not hindering me in my pursuit of knowledge (thank you science), it is also true that many science followers use it as a measuring tape to judge what is supposed to be real and what is not. Science itself doesn't make that claim.

Yes, Kundalini awakenings are not common, but they are also not so rare that they are statistically irrelevant. 
One may be able to facilitate its rising (I'm not sure about that), but it's not possible to predict it in any meaningful manner so that it can be researched it in a controlled environment. 

What to do?
At this point you can either forget about it, if you think there is no value in it and don't believe that's it's possible to start with.

Or, you can set your prejudice aside for a while and approach the subject with curiosity and a willingness to be surprised.
Learning opportunities often lie in the most unexpected places. Do you agree?

My previous post was about the criticism of science. It is fine though as you say to keep an open mind and see what can be from meditation or other thought or non thought processes. But I stick to my point that whatever you are doing is not inconsistent with science. Some of your conclusions may be  inconsistent with what science indicates is most likely based on the evidence. I would find some peace in that and say I can either work to develop some sort of evidence or be happy on my personal quest. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

How would you explain it?

Similar to yourself in many ways.

 

In our youth and childhood we are open to all sorts of ideas with proof no more than an elder or perhaps even a peer telling us it is so. I, like many, was forced to attend church in my youth. I disliked it for most of the reasons that others do. It was a chore. It was older people talking about things that meant little or nothing to me, singing ridiculous songs (some quite catchy) with words that were wishy washy and adoring of something that I felt shouldn't be adored without question, that contradicted much of what I saw in life. However, I was afraid of this God that was all powerful, was judgmental and would hold me to account and damn me forever if I did not accept him.

 

Only a little later in life I opened my eyes to the evil that was the religious god. How evil, bitter and spiteful that god must be. How sheeplike his followers were. How easy it was for them to fully embrace the god of the gaps. Some would be so stupid to speak trash such as "so if you do not believe in the bible, then how do you know not to kill?". Anybody that cannot see the hypocrisy of that statement and utter blinkered view, to think for one moment that the bible is the only point of reference that is able to tell me right from wrong, while at the same time telling fairy tales of god doing the exact opposite. The bible and religious gods are, in my view, perhaps the worst concoctions in human history.

 

However I believe that you and many others here are no more religious than me, so away with Noah, Adam, Eve, the resurrection and everything else related.

 

In my youth and throughout my 20s I experienced many things that others don't usually at such an age (certainly not to the extent in my life). The death of family, the death of others very close to me, the betrayal of those in a position of trust. I also experienced huge positives... doing wrong and coming clean to those that might have cast me aside, but believed in me, saw through the errors to someone with ability and potential, those that nudged me in the right direction and directed my energies to places that would really make a difference.

 

I also had 2 very near death experiences, 3 if I include cancer that could easily have ended me. These all occurred at an age where I was open to all sorts of possibilities. I saw that in my youth I and most others believed in our immortality, lived live only day by day, were happy in the rat race, doing the same things as everyone else in the hope of getting the same (lame) rewards as everyone else. I wanted more. I was old enough and wise enough to realise that there was much more to life, that I should look past what is only physical, should embrace the possibility of there being other ways to live a full life, to be open minded enough to consider almost anything.

 

That in turn created a huge shift in my own mindset. It didn't change everything I thought it might change... I actually work harder now than I ever did, but towards goals that I truly cherish and in a way that I enjoy and am motivated in doing. It also made me so much more empathetic to the view of others - even if it doesn't appear so in this thread. It made me truly believe that faith, even if it takes a much different form than my own (faith) can be truly powerful. That if someone else had faith in something totally contradictory to my own, and it helped them lead what they believe is a better life, then all power to them.

 

Right up until they tell me that their knowledge in life holds more value than my own and that I have not lived the fullest of lives without their experiences. I find that to be about as arrogant a viewpoint as can be.

 

Reading more of what you write, I don't think we're that dissimilar in many ways, you with total belief in the more supernatural side of spirituality and me being happy with unanswered questions. Maths and physics were always my strongest subjects. I use their frameworks every day, both in leisure and (totally) in my work. Both (and wider science in general) have never let me down, have never lied to me and have never pretended to be something that they are not: for example the answer to everything right here and now.

 

I am still human though. I still find it easy to laugh and make light of that which I don't have answers to... but I'm getting better, slowly.

 

The longest post you'll ever see me write.

 

[AmySukwan]

I don't know what happens after we die but I believe in God. I have difficulty conceiving of the universe as a series of random accidents which somehow we have been unable to reproduce the results of. I see a design behind it 

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Similar to yourself in many ways.

 

In our youth and childhood we are open to all sorts of ideas with proof no more than an elder or perhaps even a peer telling us it is so. I, like many, was forced to attend church in my youth. I disliked it for most of the reasons that others do. It was a chore. It was older people talking about things that meant little or nothing to me, singing ridiculous songs (some quite catchy) with words that were wishy washy and adoring of something that I felt shouldn't be adored without question, that contradicted much of what I saw in life. However, I was afraid of this God that was all powerful, was judgmental and would hold me to account and damn me forever if I did not accept him.

 

Only a little later in life I opened my eyes to the evil that was the religious god. How evil, bitter and spiteful that god must be. How sheeplike his followers were. How easy it was for them to fully embrace the god of the gaps. Some would be so stupid to speak trash such as "so if you do not believe in the bible, then how do you know not to kill?". Anybody that cannot see the hypocrisy of that statement and utter blinkered view, to think for one moment that the bible is the only point of reference that is able to tell me right from wrong, while at the same time telling fairy tales of god doing the exact opposite. The bible and religious gods are, in my view, perhaps the worst concoctions in human history.

 

However I believe that you and many others here are no more religious than me, so away with Noah, Adam, Eve, the resurrection and everything else related.

 

In my youth and throughout my 20s I experienced many things that others don't usually at such an age (certainly not to the extent in my life). The death of family, the death of others very close to me, the betrayal of those in a position of trust. I also experienced huge positives... doing wrong and coming clean to those that might have cast me aside, but believed in me, saw through the errors to someone with ability and potential, those that nudged me in the right direction and directed my energies to places that would really make a difference.

 

I also had 2 very near death experiences, 3 if I include cancer that could easily have ended me. These all occurred at an age where I was open to all sorts of possibilities. I saw that in my youth I and most others believed in our immortality, lived live only day by day, were happy in the rat race, doing the same things as everyone else in the hope of getting the same (lame) rewards as everyone else. I wanted more. I was old enough and wise enough to realise that there was much more to life, that I should look past what is only physical, should embrace the possibility of there being other ways to live a full life, to be open minded enough to consider almost anything.

 

That in turn created a huge shift in my own mindset. It didn't change everything I thought it might change... I actually work harder now than I ever did, but towards goals that I truly cherish and in a way that I enjoy and am motivated in doing. It also made me so much more empathetic to the view of others - even if it doesn't appear so in this thread. It made me truly believe that faith, even if it takes a much different form than my own (faith) can be truly powerful. That if someone else had faith in something totally contradictory to my own, and it helped them lead what they believe is a better life, then all power to them.

 

Right up until they tell me that their knowledge in life holds more value than my own and that I have not lived the fullest of lives without their experiences. I find that to be about as arrogant a viewpoint as can be.

 

Reading more of what you write, I don't think we're that dissimilar in many ways, you with total belief in the more supernatural side of spirituality and me being happy with unanswered questions. Maths and physics were always my strongest subjects. I use their frameworks every day, both in leisure and (totally) in my work. Both (and wider science in general) have never let me down, have never lied to me and have never pretended to be something that they are not: for example the answer to everything right here and now.

 

I am still human though. I still find it easy to laugh and make light of that which I don't have answers to... but I'm getting better, slowly.

 

The longest post you'll ever see me write.

 

Thank you for this honest and personal post. Much appreciated.
You're right...we are not that dissimilar. 

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I think I'm qualified enough to try to answer this question based on my own experience. 

 

I stated before that roughly 25 years ago I had this shift in perception. At that point I considered myself an atheist with zero trust in any religion and I had no idea what spirituality was all about. My life was all about girls, friends, music and parties.

 

This shift was so radical and transformative that it changed my whole worldview. It was only AFTER, that I started reading up on what had happened to me and try to make some sense of it. I found out that it was called kundalini awakening, and that it was some kind of energy that resides at the base of the spine. It is sometimes released during acute trauma, near death experiences or as a result of meditation, for example.

 

Now, if this experience would have been all a result of my imagination, how come it coincides so neatly with other people's stories? People throughout history and different places.

Remember, I had no idea about it beforehand. 

 

So, my dilemma was...could I have somehow tapped into some sort of mass hallucination, that affects random individuals in time and space? And how comes these hallucinations all point towards the same principles of unity, love, transcendence and interconnectedness? Science had absolutely no answers for me.

 

Or is it more plausible that the kundalini is indeed a real thing, just like it was described in certain old books and relived again and again by people around the world? These people, normal people like you and me, with no spiritual background whatsoever, described their own experience and it matched my own almost perfectly. How is that possible?

 

You will probably roll your eyes at this, but the whole thing was infinitely more real than the reality I'm in right now. It was therefore impossible to discard it as a mere figment of my imagination. And it was therefore impossible to deny the existence of this other, spiritual dimension of which we are part of, just like we are part of the physical world.

 

How would you explain it?

 

You're crazy?  When was the last time you visited your shrink? 

You know I'm joking. 

Thanks for sharing.  Nice to know in case one day my source for mushrooms gets busted or something. 

Your friendly neighborhood cowboy,

Tippers

[Tippaporn]

22 minutes ago, AmySukwan said:

I don't know what happens after we die but I believe in God. I have difficulty conceiving of the universe as a series of random accidents which somehow we have been unable to reproduce the results of. I see a design behind it 

Hi Amy!  [wink, wink]

Good to see you drift over here from another reality [forum].  No coincidence there.  All by design. 

See, folks, other realities do exist!  Amy is our latest evidence.  Proof positive! 

Since you're new here (but old elsewhere - we were just recently talking about the paradox of simultaneous time) just an FYI for ya.  Rule No. 1:  BYO stimulants.  No selling going on around here.  Scout's honour! 

[Tippaporn]

Didn't we used to have a welcome shingle to hang out for newbies?

Anyways, a formal welcome to Amy!

In lieu of the welcome shingle this will have to suffice:

   

Oh, I did find it after all!  Someone obviously didn't put it back where it belongs.

[AmySukwan]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Hi Amy!  [wink, wink]

Good to see you drift over here from another reality [forum].  No coincidence there.  All by design. 

See, folks, other realities do exist!  Amy is our latest evidence.  Proof positive! 

Since you're new here (but old elsewhere - we were just recently talking about the paradox of simultaneous time) just an FYI for ya.  Rule No. 1:  BYO stimulants.  No selling going on around here.  Scout's honour! 

Greetings Tippaporn! Yes I'm just trying to learn the ropes on here. Had a few crazy days but it seems to be sorting itself out! I'll remember not to buy or sell stimulants on here!

That reminds me of a funny story last night. My husband was telling me he was hungry but it was late at night and we were staying in this beach hotel and all of the nearby food stalls were closed by then. So he starts telling me that he wants to call the police to take him to jail because at least in jail they will feed him. Unfortunately for him drinking a few beers and Sato wine and making love in the hotel room was not actually illegal. So I was trying to come up with something he could do so he could go to jail. Could he start a fight with another hotel guest? Most were sleeping by then and I don't like violence. I was thinking he could steal something from the 24 hour 7 Eleven not that far away, but it would have to be pretty expensive for him to go to jail long enough to be properly fed. Mama noodles it is then! I even bought them. I'm not to knowlegeable about the food service in Thai jail but I think it's all he would have gotten in there too!  

[AmySukwan]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Didn't we used to have a welcome shingle to hang out for newbies?

Anyways, a formal welcome to Amy!

In lieu of the welcome shingle this will have to suffice:

   

Oh, I did find it after all!  Someone obviously didn't put it back where it belongs.

 

[AmySukwan]

Just now, AmySukwan said:

 

Thank you!

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, Woof999 said:

No problem at all. Somewhere outside of all of these possibilities, we're all on the same side.

Thanks for being right gracious, Woof.  It's much appreciated. 

And yes, we are all on the same side.  The dark side. 

[Tippaporn]

17 minutes ago, AmySukwan said:

Greetings Tippaporn! Yes I'm just trying to learn the ropes on here. Had a few crazy days but it seems to be sorting itself out! I'll remember not to buy or sell stimulants on here!

That reminds me of a funny story last night. My husband was telling me he was hungry but it was late at night and we were staying in this beach hotel and all of the nearby food stalls were closed by then. So he starts telling me that he wants to call the police to take him to jail because at least in jail they will feed him. Unfortunately for him drinking a few beers and Sato wine and making love in the hotel room was not actually illegal. So I was trying to come up with something he could do so he could go to jail. Could he start a fight with another hotel guest? Most were sleeping by then and I don't like violence. I was thinking he could steal something from the 24 hour 7 Eleven not that far away, but it would have to be pretty expensive for him to go to jail long enough to be properly fed. Mama noodles it is then! I even bought them. I'm not to knowlegeable about the food service in Thai jail but I think it's all he would have gotten in there too!  

I denote a contradiction gleaned from your above story.

". . . and I don't like violence. "    "and making love in the hotel room . . . "

On the one hand you don't believe in violence.  But, on the other hand you believe in making violent love. 

Don't worry.  You'll get used to my odd sense of humour sooner rather than later. 

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It's not rubbish if you can get your mind around what science is. Your subjective experience is a little bit of science. You have felt or sensed certain things and drawn conclusions and , unless you are irrational, that is somewhat scientific. You can't get to the next stage of providing objective proof for whatever reason. So you can say, my subjective experience was so strong and alarming that I believe it is a sign of something such as god, and I accept others won't believe it if they haven't had the same experience. That's enough. Science isn't wrong not to stand on the roof tops and say Tippaporn experienced this so we should all believe it. It is what it is. 

One of the go-to, automatic-knee jerk assumptions by the science-minded is to accuse me of not understanding what science is, or not understanding the scientific method.  I guess the assumption is due to the idea that if I don't view the world strictly through the lens of scientific belief then it must be because I don't understand science.  Or something like that.  I dunno.  You'll have to explain to me how the idea popped into your head that I'm not yet able to wrap my head around what science is and what other thoughts produced that thought.  But it's something I'm accused of again and again.

My dear Fat is a type of crazy.  I'm well aware of what science and the scientific method is.  I was a science-minded guy once, too.  As a youth I almost burned down our family home with a bunsen burner whilst performing a chemistry experiment.  I was lucky to get out alive.  Fortunately no one in my family was home at the time and I was able to dispose of all of the evidence (except the smell) before my parents returned.  I claimed ignorance about the burnt smell and it worked!  My dad and mum fell for it.

 

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I totally accept that thoughts can affect our experience of life and have said so. Psychology. Psychiatry. Feelings.   I can't see a link between thoughts and some unknown power that results in a new reality. 

Ever hear about mind over matter?  Well, truth be told mind creates matter.  But I can tell you're not ready to hear the how and why. 

Just to note.  The emoticon is applicable to only the last sentence above.  I'm quite serious about the others.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Tippaporn

[mauGR1]

18 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

As a youth I almost burned down our family home with a bunsen burner whilst performing a chemistry experiment.  I was lucky to get out alive.  Fortunately no one in my family was home at the time and I was able to dispose of all of the evidence 

Lol, you just reminded me of what i did once playing with benzene in the bathroom, but i was caught in the act .

The terror on my mother's face as she was staring at the column of flames erupting from the sink was priceless. ????

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, you just reminded me of what i did once playing with benzene in the bathroom, but i was caught in the act .

The terror on my mother's face as she was staring at the column of flames erupting from the sink was priceless. ????

I'll bet your ar$e is still sore from the whoopin' your mum must have given you. 

My mum once experimented with sticking her head in a hot oven.  Her hair did eventually grow back. 

Science is a dangerous thing.  I'm actually fearful of these science-minded posters.  They're mad, I tell ya.  You never can tell when they'll decide to go nuclear.  The religious types aren't much to worry about for me.  Damn me to hell but what the hey?  I live in Thailand so I like it hot.

[mauGR1]

38 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Science is a dangerous thing.  I'm actually fearful of these science-minded posters.  They're mad, I tell ya.

Yep, and i find somehow comforting that someone, once in a while,  shares those feelings. 

It seems like all the religion fanatics of the middle ages have reincarnated as science fanatics of today. ????

 

[save the frogs]

3 hours ago, AmySukwan said:

Greetings Tippaporn! Yes I'm just trying to learn the ropes on here.

don't let them brainwash you Amy!

[Tippaporn]

Listen to the sound of my voice, Amy.  Block out everything and empty your head.  Listen only to the delightful nonsense I will fill your brain with.  You will be happy.  You will be sad.  You will know everything but know nothing.  And you will be at peace and one with the God-fountainhead-eternal-bliss of all that is in the universe and beyond.  Beyond God even.  Your mind will be empty yet overflowing.  All will be you and you will be all and all will be yours.  Trust in me only and do not listen to the voices of reason here for they will tempt you into a sanity filled world not of your choosing.  Choose not what you will but only what I will for you.  All for you.  Only for you.  Take my wrinkled and leathery hand and follow me.  Meld with me.  Orgasm awaits you!!!  I am the Cowboy.  You are the Cowgirl.  We will ride each other into the sunset of stars as they fall over the edge of the universe.  Outta sight and outta mind, forgotten forever.  Until you awake in the land of the forever moons.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Tippaporn

[save the frogs]

12 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The official stance of science is that "spirituality" has no place in science, so yeah, one might be critical of scientists claiming anything about spirituality.

spirituality has no place in science because they can't prove anything esoteric.

and/or many scientists happen to be atheists. 

 

however, there seems to be an unhealthy obsession by the regular posters on this thread to hate on science.

and to turn this into a spirituality vs science boxing match. 

in fact, that's what this thread seems to be mostly about.

 

i'd like to suggest that your view on "spirituality" is narrow-minded.

as most of "spirituality" has to do with how we conduct ourselves.

the "woo-woo" part of spirituality is only a small part. 

 

channeling absolutely exists.

i've been to meditation groups where people channeled.

but the problem is the people running these meditation groups were mostly horrible human beings.

it was being operated like a cult and they were using the channeling to manipulate vulnerable people (mostly recovering alcoholics).

after that experience, i'm not impressed with "woo-woo" stuff.

and I don't bother too much with it.

I'm impressed with people acting like decent human beings. 

 

who do you want scientists to prove?

that there are other dimensions?

what are you planning to do with all these dimensions?

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by save the frogs

[Sunmaster]

34 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

channeling absolutely exists.

Really now? ????

What were they channeling exactly? 

[Sunmaster]

37 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

however, there seems to be an unhealthy obsession by the regular posters on this thread to hate on science.

and to turn this into a spirituality vs science boxing match. 

No such thing. All of us here value science, but we don't believe science has the answers to our questions. We have said this many times already.

 

The boxing match only starts when people (like you) insist that science is the only judge of what is real and what is not.

[Sunmaster]

43 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

i'd like to suggest that your view on "spirituality" is narrow-minded

And how exactly are you qualified to judge me on my view of spirituality. Prey tell. I'm all ears.

[Sunmaster]

45 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

what are you planning to do with all these dimensions?

Well, world domination of course, across all possible dimensions. What else? 

[Sunmaster]

30 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Really now? ????

What were they channeling exactly? 

Come on @save the frogs, don't let me hanging. This is going to be good.

[Elad]

15 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I think at least one of the regular posters on here has been very critical of scientists as it pertains to anything spiritual.

But knock yourself out!

Its just a common joke among scientists. Of course physics works, you only have to look at all the technology around you to know that.