Do you believe in God and why

[canuckamuck]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

They might be all that and more.But they do reflect the state of social norms.Which is why I used them as an example.

 

To claim that religion does not play a BIG part in this debate is laughable. 

It does if instead of just living by one's beliefs,  One tries to also impose them on others. 

But your culture is American culture. Religion is part of your culture. One nation under God and all that. The republic was created to respect all views.

 

[Elad]

On 11/6/2019 at 1:05 AM, canuckamuck said:

Spirit does not require any of these parameters

Spirit requires humans, and humans are made of matter, emit radiation, exist in a period of time, in certain place. So all those parameters are needed. ???? 

[canuckamuck]

7 minutes ago, Elad said:

Spirit requires humans, and humans are made of matter, emit radiation, exist in a period of time, in certain place. So all those parameters are needed. ???? 

Does it?

[yodsak]

 

19 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

There are more historical records regarding the existence of Jesus Christ than the Roman Emperor Julius Caesar, yet no one doubts the latter walked the earth.  

Historians don't doubt that jesus walked the earth. But scientists doubt he walked on water and other miraculous alleged events.  

  

19 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

 When I read some of these anti-Christan comments on this site, is makes me wonder why so many would want to spend eternity in Hell.  Heaven or Hell, it's your choice.  

Maybe they don't believe they will go to hell for all eternity. Maybe they will repent.

Maybe they think Hell was invented by the church to control people and doesn't actually exist.  

 

They could be Pastafarians or Diabolists.  There's more than one belief system.  Christians don't have a monopoly.

  

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Does it?

It is often stated that Spirit experiences itself through us. Maybe in that sense Spirit needs us.
 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

It is often stated that Spirit experiences itself through us. Maybe in that sense Spirit needs us.
 

Using the word "need" doesn't sound correct though, saying that the spirit expresses him/herself by taking physical forms is perhaps closer.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/8/2019 at 9:28 PM, mauGR1 said:

Btw, i'm quite conscious of the fact that people like me, and maybe you, who are on a spiritual path, are considered a bit asocial by the majority of the people who are living a materialistic dream.

I think they just don't understand spirituality, and are a bit frightened by the concept, so just write off anyone they don't understand as nutters.

I was on the path in my 30s, but somehow life got in the way, and I stopped.

IMO, one has to give up adventures if one wants to find what is within, which is why monks gave up normal life to meditate in a monastery.

 

This thread continues to enjoy much interest, having gained 6 pages over the weekend. I would not have expected such a thread to have lasted anywhere near so long.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think they just don't understand spirituality, and are a bit frightened by the concept, so just write off anyone they don't understand as nutters.

I was on the path in my 30s, but somehow life got in the way, and I stopped.

IMO, one has to give up adventures if one wants to find what is within, which is why monks gave up normal life to meditate in a monastery.

 

This thread continues to enjoy much interest, having gained 6 pages over the weekend. I would not have expected such a thread to have lasted anywhere near so long.

 

 

I think it is not possible to be off the path. If everything is the Tao, then all paths lead to the Tao, even those paths that deny the existence of the Tao. There may be some more direct paths and others that take detours on the way, but eventually they'll all get there.
And who is to say that the detour you took in your 30s won't serve you further down the path as a slingshot, projecting you even further than you could imagine?

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, jastheace said:

I believe there is a tin of soup in my cupboard, I know I can confidently say 'I believe' it is there, as I can see it. I can show you or anyone else it is there and it exists.i I can even invite the 'non-believers' and maybe converting them into believers by allowing them to touch and feel the can. the contents however are for my eyes only. 

I know that will make sense to you, as it's not too deep. about 4 1/5 inches deep.

Faith is inherently about believing in something unprovable.

If people only believed because God came down and burnt everyone alive that didn't believe, the resultant full churches would only be because people didn't want to be burnt, not as a result of faith.

Does it not occur to non believers that believing without any evidence at all is actually a requirement of faith?

 

I can only suppose that no unbeliever has ever felt the spirit within them, and are un awakened to enlightenment. Pity, as it is a wondrous feeling indeed.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO, one has to give up adventures if one wants to find what is within, which is why monks gave up normal life to meditate in a monastery.

I have a bit of an aversion to the idea of being part of a group, but i thinks is true that, to find the time and the peacefulness to meditate, is convenient to give up at least some of the material cravings.

Probably the "monastery thing" was necessary in the past, when the food was scarce and surviving was harder, personally i find that some loneliness can help in clearing one's mind, and training the thoughts.

In the same time, i try not to alienate myself too much from "normal" people, i'm not ready to become a Buddha yet !

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

I think it is not possible to be off the path. If everything is the Tao, then all paths lead to the Tao, even those paths that deny the existence of the Tao. There may be some more direct paths and others that take detours on the way, but eventually they'll all get there.
And who is to say that the detour you took in your 30s won't serve you further down the path as a slingshot, projecting you even further than you could imagine?

Well, that's certainly true as it took me to this thread. The protestations of the atheists have helped me define my own beliefs, so they have only made my faith stronger, which is probably not what they intended:-)

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think it is not possible to be off the path. If everything is the Tao, then all paths lead to the Tao, even those paths that deny the existence of the Tao. There may be some more direct paths and others that take detours on the way, but eventually they'll all get there.
And who is to say that the detour you took in your 30s won't serve you further down the path as a slingshot, projecting you even further than you could imagine?

Agree, having felt also guilty for wasting my time with futile desires, it's all part of the path.

.. Repressed desires often come back stronger, i know that from experience.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Do you think many adults have religion forced on them? In western, formerly Christian nations that is. 

Obviously it happens in other places.

In some Islamic nations ( I have worked in one ) apostasy is a crime punishable by death.

Christian religion was like that in the dark ages.

Perhaps Islam will also develop to the point that one can stop being a Muslim without being killed for doing so.

Edited November 11, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In some Islamic nations ( I have worked in one ) apostasy is a crime punishable by death.

Christian religion was like that in the dark ages.

Perhaps Islam will also develop to the point that one can not be Muslim without being killed for doing so.

I'm quite sure of that, undoubtedly atheism has a positive side, which is people starting to think using their own brain.

[luckyluke]

I am happy in my way, not believing in any "Thing".

 

I try to do good, and don't do bad (intentionally). 

 

However there are some who try to convince me that I would be more happy if I believe there was/is a "Thing" who fixed everything, and even some pretending that I am stupid to not understand  the concept of it. 

 

I agree I not understand what they claim to be obvious.

 

However I suppose it makes them happy to be convinced there was/is a "Thing", and that some feel superior because they "understand" and I don't. 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Beliefs (religious and others) are indeed FORCED - on children, that at best need a lengthy period of time to ditch them.

The expression "child abuse" comes to mind.

Religion was "forced" on me, just as history, mathematics and other subjects were. Once I left school I was able to follow my own choices.I don't feel abused by being taught about religion.

I find your reference to child abuse due to religious lessons ridiculous, as I was abused at school by bullies, both pupils and teachers, and that is real abuse.

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well, that's certainly true as it took me to this thread. The protestations of the atheists have helped me define my own beliefs, so they have only made my faith stronger, which is probably not what they intended:-)

Same here. In my 20s I had a strong desire to go to India or Nepal and find a teacher there, but that didn't happen. I worked many jobs after that and built up my own business. I'm prone to get quite materialistic sometimes (I collect vintage motorcycles), but I've never ever forgotten what my deepest desire is. 
This thread also helped me to push that desire more in the foreground, and for that reason I looked into practicing Transcendental Meditation.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Hummin said:

you prove my stand, and very glad you do. You believe in a myth, fairytale, and accept that as truth above anything else, which is dangerous, since it leads people to do horribel mistakes and crimes. 

You misunderstand the concept of faith. People of faith would never do the horrible things that men without faith do.

The people that did "horrible mistakes and crimes" did so because they had no faith. Professing to be a Christian does not mean that people walk in faith.

Without understanding that faith and religion are not the same it's a bit pointless replying to a thread about belief in God.

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

However I suppose it makes them happy to be convinced there was/is a "Thing", and that some feel superior because they "understand" and I don't. 

Feeling superior is wrong from a spiritual point of view.

Yet, it's apparently embedded in all humans, so it can happen to everyone to have that feeling from time to time.

It happens to believers and non-believers too.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I had a strong desire to go to India or Nepal and find a teacher there

I went to Nepal and India, and many other countries, not to find a teacher, just out of interest. 

I am pleased I did it, I saw and learned many things. 

However it didn't really influenced me, just confirming there are good and bad people in any country and within any kind of "spiritual" group. 

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The people that did "horrible mistakes and crimes" did so because they had no faith.

That's an interesting approach. 

It means that people, who never did/do something wrong, are people with faith. 

Well it will, I suppose, pleased you that according to you I have faith. 

 

[luckyluke]

19 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

it's apparently embedded in all humans, so it can happen to everyone to have that feeling from time to time

"From time to time" is a relative concept. 

Some are convinced that  "continuously" is a synonym. 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

That's an interesting approach. 

It means that people, who never did/do something wrong, are people with faith. 

Well it will, I suppose, pleased you that according to you I have faith. 

 

I don't think that's quite right.
Faith alone doesn't exonerate people from making mistakes or hurting others. 
And just because you've never done bad things in your life, doesn't mean you have faith. 
I might be wrong though, I'm no expert about faith.

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

"From time to time" is a relative concept. 

Some are convinced that  "continuously" is a synonym. 

Well, that's your experience, i respect that.

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I don't think that's quite right.
Faith alone doesn't exonerate people from making mistakes or hurting others. 
And just because you've never done bad things in your life, doesn't mean you have faith. 
I might be wrong though, I'm no expert about faith.

I am agree with you, some apparently here have another opinion. 

Which of course they are entitled to have. 

I just hope they are not convinced that their opinion is the only right one. 

 

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I am agree with you, some apparently here have another opinion. 

Which of course they are entitled to have. 

I just hope they are not convinced that their opinion is the only right one. 

 

However, if we have to judge, let's judge the facts.

I have met people who speak like angels and act like devils, and people who speak like devils who have a good heart.

[canuckamuck]

13 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I am agree with you, some apparently here have another opinion. 

Which of course they are entitled to have. 

I just hope they are not convinced that their opinion is the only right one. 

 

Faith requires some definition however.

[thaibeachlovers]

44 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

That's an interesting approach. 

It means that people, who never did/do something wrong, are people with faith. 

Well it will, I suppose, pleased you that according to you I have faith. 

 

No. Having faith is more than just the absence of wrong doing. To have faith is to make the effort to have faith, and to abide by that faith.

People that happened to never do anything wrong were just lucky, though they could also have chosen to have faith as well.

Faith, IMO, isn't something we are born with- it's not genetic. It's something we have to choose to have.

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Faith requires some definition however.

At the moment i would have serious issues in defining faith, to be honest.

..And to be frank, i would also doubt someone who claims to have a very clear idea of faith.

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To have faith is to make the effort to have faith, and to abide by that faith.

Fair enough if that's your opinion, it does not hurt anyone else. 

 

"People that happened to never do anything wrong were just lucky, though they could also have chosen to have faith as well." 

 

Here it is different,

by claiming that the ones who have faith, do things consciously,

for the others it is just "luck". 

 

Seems like disdain to me.