Do you believe in God and why

[Fat is a type of crazy]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

 

I appreciate your reasoning,  i can't really find any flaw in that.

Yet, i think you have a rather low opinion of what is regarded as "feelings ".

In fact, the whole range of feelings is very important in shaping and directing our thoughts and lives, at least as important as physical matter, if not even more.

If i and you are looking at the same red flower, we are getting totally different feelings, that's the evidence of the existence of a soul, which surely one cannot see with the physical eyes, yet exists, and it's not less real than the physical body.

I think when we think of having a lightness and freedom of the  soul we have a similar concept. The opposite of feeling weighed down..by life, guilt, etc. Why can't that feeling be part of the human body rather than some etheric religious concept. Maybe when we feel bad, or feel we've done the wrong thing,  we tighten ourselves up, and when we feel good, happy, in love, and that we've been morally good, we don't. The first feeling is a soulless feeling and the latter feeling is a soulful feeling.  

 

The religious can take that concept  to scare an intimidate. Creating a heaven and hell where you will keep or lose your soul.   

Humans are subject to suggestion like Pavlov's dog. If someone tells us we'll lose our soul if we are bad we have the same tightening up. But the notion or feeling of  soul could be purely human and physical. The way you react to a rose could be subject to different factors but could be about how you feel about yourself - how tightened up you are.

 

 

[rcuthbert]

Problems start when scientific method is ignored -then replaced by "correct thinking". Galileo vs the Church being a pivotal example.

During revolutions, the intellectuals are killed - then replaced by ideologues.

Scientific method can also be restrained by speech codes and group think. "A+B =C" " He Must be a racist." " I had better not release my peer reviewed studies which prove that A+B =C, or I will be shunned."

 

[covidiot]

9 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I don't think the fact that we can communicate and think more effectively distinguishes us that much from apes or dogs or suggests we are on a special path lead by a god.

sorry, i don't know what to say man. 

i think dogs have it easier than us. 

 

[covidiot]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The religious can take that concept  to scare an intimidate. Creating a heaven and hell where you will keep or lose your soul.   

Humans are subject to suggestion like Pavlov's dog.

I don't think I am a Pavlovian dog.

Or maybe I am.

The concept of 'losing your soul' has some validity to me, logically.

But I think the specifics about 'heaven and hell' from christian texts is not accurate. But christianity doesn't have a monopoly on the philosophy of god. It's just one philosophy. And a flawed one.

 

 

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think when we think of having a lightness and freedom of the  soul we have a similar concept. The opposite of feeling weighed down..by life, guilt, etc. Why can't that feeling be part of the human body rather than some etheric religious concept. Maybe when we feel bad, or feel we've done the wrong thing,  we tighten ourselves up, and when we feel good, happy, in love, and that we've been morally good, we don't. The first feeling is a soulless feeling and the latter feeling is a soulful feeling.  

 

The religious can take that concept  to scare an intimidate. Creating a heaven and hell where you will keep or lose your soul.   

Humans are subject to suggestion like Pavlov's dog. If someone tells us we'll lose our soul if we are bad we have the same tightening up. But the notion or feeling of  soul could be purely human and physical. The way you react to a rose could be subject to different factors but could be about how you feel about yourself - how tightened up you are.

 

 

A fair post.

Yet, as in a car you can see that there is a engine, a car body, the wheels,  a steering wheel etc... i am happy to know that my 'I' is composed of different parts.

As a classic example, your physical body fills a certain space, and you can measure it.

Your soul can expand, can be as big as your family,  can be as big as your country,  if you love it, and in some very blessed moment can embrace the whole universe..

Definitely,  there's quite a difference between "feeling a belly-ache" and "feeling love for your planet".

In regard to the fear imposed by some religion,  let's just forget it, living in fear it's not life at all.

[covidiot]

15 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

One of my favourite bands is Devo.

never heard of them.

be sure to check out The Pogues.

If I should fall from grace with god ...

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by covidiot

[yodsak]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:56 AM, covidiot said:

some of them are deluded or charlatans, it's true ...

not sure about steiner. 

''There was once a large expanse of land [Atlantis] where today there is the Atlantic Ocean …... The human being who lived then was in his external form half man and half fish. ……. The more imperfect of these fish-men evolved to become kangaroos, those a little more advanced became deer and cattle, and the most perfect became apes or men. You see from this that man did not descend from apes; man was there, and all the mammals really descended from him, from these human forms in which man remained imperfect. ………....... Birds once consisted entirely of air. ……........ we have gone very far back into the past and found human beings who really only consisted of dense air.''    — Rudolf Steiner – From Sunspots to Strawberries. #4 The origins of the world and the human being.— 1924.    link >  books    [Darwins book was 65 years earlier]

[yodsak]

Lemuria was a human civilization that existed about thirty-four million years ago, according to The Secret Doctrine .Early man could stand upright and had two eyes in the front of his head and a third eye in the back of back of his head. The third eye remained an organ of vision until the end of the Lemurian period. After that the third eye became an internal organ of psychic ability which continued into the Atlantian epoch. Today it is the pineal gland.The idea of Lemuria was subsequently incorporated into the proto-New Age philosophy of Theosophy and subsequently into general fringe belief.—  link >  Lemuria_(Steiner)

[covidiot]

1 hour ago, yodsak said:

we have gone very far back into the past and found human beings who really only consisted of dense air.''

i won't mention any names, but there are some posters on thaivisa who to this day really only consist of dense air.

just kidding. i categorically do not endorse anything this man is saying. ha ha. 

[covidiot]

1 hour ago, yodsak said:

After that the third eye became an internal organ of psychic ability

The existence of a third eye that emparts psychic abilities is a widely accepted truth in New Age circles. That ancient civilizations like Lemuria and Atlantis existed is also believed by New Age folks. Not sure if there is any proof of any of these claims so I won't engage in a debate about it. 

 

Edit: However, in my mind Steiner's comments are no more or less debatable than many claims made by religions or claims made by top scientists such as Hawking or Dawkins with regards to matters relating to God or time-space or other such esoteric concepts. 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by covidiot

[covidiot]

2 hours ago, yodsak said:

[Darwins book was 65 years earlier]

I don't believe darwin's theory.

I believe we don't know where we come from, how we got here, why we got here. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

7 hours ago, covidiot said:

never heard of them.

be sure to check out The Pogues.

If I should fall from grace with god ...

 

Pogues are cool. You might know the Devo song 'Whip it' where there wore the red energy domes. But they had a long career. Their lead singer Mark Mothersbaugh has done many many movie soundtracks including most movies for Wes Anderson if that adds a bit of credibility.

Their concept of deevolution is slightly toungue in cheek and slightly serious but they had a lot to say about society and people in general. One of their songs, around the time of Whip It, is Freedom of Choice which asks whether we really have too much choice now and we want freedom from choice. Has religious implications too. The best stuff is the early albums though - you could argue they were one of the first punk bands based on the early guitar stuff. At the same time they had some similarities with Kraftwerk with their use of technology and their outlook and appearance. 

 

[covidiot]

7 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Their concept of deevolution is slightly toungue in cheek

I'll have a look at the band's work when I get around to it.

Not sure if we are evolving or devolving. I think we've pretty much been the same throughout history. Maybe the word evolution needs to be removed from the vocabulary. 

 

[Sunmaster]

I think it's pretty clear that life is always striving to evolve from the less complex to more complex, in biology and societal structures alike.

We only see and know first hand what is going on during our time, and sometimes we get depressed at the current situation.

But if anyone thinks 200, 500, 1000 years ago there were less wars, tribal conflicts, injustices and atrocities, they are way off the mark.

 

Never in the history of mankind did so many enjoy so many luxuries...health, financial freedom, the freedom to move, freedom of speaking their own mind, freedom to explore all kinds of human endeavors, and many more.

 

I don't like to idealize the past, with the idea of the "noble savage" or "the good old times". Most of the time they weren't that good at all. Or maybe they were good for a few privileged individuals, but were not so good for all the rest.

 

I look at the future full of hope and optimism. Yes, we still have a long way to go, but look at how much we have achieved in the last 100 years alone!

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

"the good old times". Most of the time they weren't that good at all. Or maybe they were good for a few privileged individuals, but were not so good for all the rest.

The good old days were fantastically brilliant for me, certainly compared to life now. However, that applied only to a small minority of world population. I wuz lucky to be among them.

Life sucked for most of the world population back then, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

but look at how much we have achieved in the last 100 years alone!

Ah yes, the atomic bomb, ICBMs to deliver them, capitalism run amok, the great depression, the 2008 financial crisis, overpopulation, the rapidly increasing destruction of land masses and the increasing pollution of the entire sea on the planet.

Sorry, but I have no belief that life has got better for the planet and the organisms that inhabit it in the past 100 years. IMO the planet was sold a lemon when mankind emerged in Africa thousands of years ago.

 

In the year 2525

Zager and Evans

 

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day

In the year 8510
God is gonna shake his mighty head then
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again, woah woah

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man is gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing, woah woah

Now it's been 10, 000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through

Edited June 2, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah yes, the atomic bomb, ICBMs to deliver them, capitalism run amok, the great depression, the 2008 financial crisis, overpopulation, the rapidly increasing destruction of land masses and the increasing pollution of the entire sea on the planet.

Sorry, but I have no belief that life has got better for the planet and the organisms that inhabit it in the past 100 years. IMO the planet was sold a lemon when mankind emerged in Africa thousands of years ago.

I acknowledge the less preferable occurrences (unhealthy outgrow), but rather focus on the healthy outgrows of each one.

 

The atomic bomb was an unhealthy outgrow of amazing advances in molecular science. The healthy outgrows of molecular science are wide and include advances in chemistry, biology, physics and technology, of which we all benefit today.

 

Capitalism in itself is not bad. The unhealthy and unchecked outgrows (indeed like a cancer) can provoke financial crises, wild inflation, inequality between have's and have-not's. On the other hand, capitalism made it possible to reach for those amazing advances I mentioned above and made the middle classes much stronger (=more wealth distributed to more people).

Pollution....yes, up to the 90s it was very bad (and still is in some parts of the world). There was hardly a "preservation" consciousness, but I think we already passed the turning point and are moving towards a more sustainable way of life. For example, many rivers in Europe are much less polluted today than they were in the 70s-90s. Factories have to be certified for their energy consumption and environmental impact and are granted bonuses if they comply. We recycle and reuse resources instead of just filling up landfills like 50 years ago. The list goes on...

This new consciousness is really seeping in the new generations I think and many of them are coming up with new solutions to solve the problems that the previous generations caused. (Boyan Slat for example was only 17 when he came up with a fast and cheap way to clean up the oceans. Greta Thunberg, one can agree or not with her ideas, but the fact that she got so much exposure and followers, shows that the time was ripe for discussion).

It's frustrating sometimes because we perceive it as being so slow, but change is undoubtedly happening.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I acknowledge the less preferable occurrences (unhealthy outgrow), but rather focus on the healthy outgrows of each one.

 

The atomic bomb was an unhealthy outgrow of amazing advances in molecular science. The healthy outgrows of molecular science are wide and include advances in chemistry, biology, physics and technology, of which we all benefit today.

 

Capitalism in itself is not bad. The unhealthy and unchecked outgrows (indeed like a cancer) can provoke financial crises, wild inflation, inequality between have's and have-not's. On the other hand, capitalism made it possible to reach for those amazing advances I mentioned above and made the middle classes much stronger (=more wealth distributed to more people).

Pollution....yes, up to the 90s it was very bad (and still is in some parts of the world). There was hardly a "preservation" consciousness, but I think we already passed the turning point and are moving towards a more sustainable way of life. For example, many rivers in Europe are much less polluted today than they were in the 70s-90s. Factories have to be certified for their energy consumption and environmental impact and are granted bonuses if they comply. We recycle and reuse resources instead of just filling up landfills like 50 years ago. The list goes on...

This new consciousness is really seeping in the new generations I think and many of them are coming up with new solutions to solve the problems that the previous generations caused. (Boyan Slat for example was only 17 when he came up with a fast and cheap way to clean up the oceans. Greta Thunberg, one can agree or not with her ideas, but the fact that she got so much exposure and followers, shows that the time was ripe for discussion).

It's frustrating sometimes because we perceive it as being so slow, but change is undoubtedly happening.

Sorry, but I can't agree.

Scientific advances stopped children dying, but people still reproduced as though most of their children would die, and overpopulation is IMO destroying everything in countries with a high birth rate, which is why there is a crisis in western countries with poor, unskilled immigrants trying to enter illegally.

 

I think we already passed the turning point and are moving towards a more sustainable way of life.

Seriously? Tell that to the indigenous people of Amazonia which are being forced off their land so poor Brazilians can clear fell the rain forest to raise cattle to cater for the North American hamburger market. The destruction of rain forests around the world is accelerating, not decreasing. Greed is the cause.

Greta Thunberg, one can agree or not with her ideas, but the fact that she got so much exposure and followers, shows that the time was ripe for discussion

She was a fad, IMO, and the sheeple will move on to the next fad. I doubt she actually changed anything. The 1% will give lip service and carry on regardless.

 

For example, many rivers in Europe are much less polluted today than they were in the 70s-90s.

We recycle and reuse resources instead of just filling up landfills like 50 years ago.

I guess you haven't been in NZ much then. The massive change to dairying to make money from China is polluting rivers more than ever, and recycling? Well they talk about it a lot. Don't actually do much though. Used to send all the electronics to China, but apparently they won't take other country's pollution any more.

 

Sadly, I don't hold much if any hope for a better world as long as people keep reproducing so much. Population is increasing too fast for improvements to have much if any effect.

Let's remember western countries have a minority of the world population.

 

[Sunmaster]

Like I said, the world appears grim if we only focus on those things that don't yet work as they should. The good thing is that we have a choice on what we want to focus on. 
Change doesn't happen overnight, especially on a global scale. 

If we extend the argument to include the "God Factor", then it gets even more interesting. If you accept that God is another word for Absolute Perfection, then it follows that everything God creates is perfect as it is, even though we are sometimes unable to see it. God then must be perfection all the time, for everything....otherwise he wouldn't deserve the title of God, right? Ok, if God is All There Is, at any given moment = then everything there is, is always perfect. It's not logical to say "God created a perfect world, but then made a mistake and put humans on it. Once they die out, the world will be perfect again."

But no problem if you don't agree. ???? 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Like I said, the world appears grim if we only focus on those things that don't yet work as they should. The good thing is that we have a choice on what we want to focus on. 
Change doesn't happen overnight, especially on a global scale. 

If we extend the argument to include the "God Factor", then it gets even more interesting. If you accept that God is another word for Absolute Perfection, then it follows that everything God creates is perfect as it is, even though we are sometimes unable to see it. God then must be perfection all the time, for everything....otherwise he wouldn't deserve the title of God, right? Ok, if God is All There Is, at any given moment = then everything there is, is always perfect. It's not logical to say "God created a perfect world, but then made a mistake and put humans on it. Once they die out, the world will be perfect again."

But no problem if you don't agree. ???? 

Can't say that I've ever had to disagree with you before, but I do on that. I've said it before, but I believe that God invented the rules by which our universe operates, then put all the elements needed to create the universe into the space we know as the universe and left it to get on with it.

IMO there is no such thing as perfection in this universe. We can strive for it but IMO we'll never reach it this side of death.

Edited June 3, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

PS. Civilizations have arisen and fallen for as long as mankind has been able to organize society to work towards a common goal. Everything ends, sooner or later, and I just believe that our civilization has become so rotten that it's past the peak ( which IMO was the late 1950s, early 60s before the Vietnam war ) and is now on the downward spiral. Like it says in the Bible, a house divided can not stand, and we are divided on everything from race to gender.

 

Pity it had to happen in my lifetime, but I always knew I was born too late.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Like I said, the world appears grim if we only focus on those things that don't yet work as they should. The good thing is that we have a choice on what we want to focus on. 
Change doesn't happen overnight, especially on a global scale. 

If we extend the argument to include the "God Factor", then it gets even more interesting. If you accept that God is another word for Absolute Perfection, then it follows that everything God creates is perfect as it is, even though we are sometimes unable to see it. God then must be perfection all the time, for everything....otherwise he wouldn't deserve the title of God, right? Ok, if God is All There Is, at any given moment = then everything there is, is always perfect. It's not logical to say "God created a perfect world, but then made a mistake and put humans on it. Once they die out, the world will be perfect again."

But no problem if you don't agree. ???? 

Is it interesting to see an opinion but it cannot be argued as it is a statement of faith.

It is saying I have faith that god exists and is perfection and therefore everything he does and creates is perfect no matter whether it's Hitler, a volcano or a pandemic.

You can debate what Yodsak or Thai Beach Lovers say but not this. You can't debate faith.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

PS. Civilizations have arisen and fallen for as long as mankind has been able to organize society to work towards a common goal. Everything ends, sooner or later, and I just believe that our civilization has become so rotten that it's past the peak ( which IMO was the late 1950s, early 60s before the Vietnam war ) and is now on the downward spiral. Like it says in the Bible, a house divided can not stand, and we are divided on everything from race to gender.

 

Pity it had to happen in my lifetime, but I always knew I was born too late.

Almost agree on everything,  except that it's difficult to say where's the peak of something. 

Nowadays we have amazing technology available at a cheap price to many, if not most people, then, why i have the impression that the mass gets so easily brainwashed?

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can't say that I've ever had to disagree with you before, but I do on that. I've said it before, but I believe that God invented the rules by which our universe operates, then put all the elements needed to create the universe into the space we know as the universe and left it to get on with it.

IMO there is no such thing as perfection in this universe. We can strive for it but IMO we'll never reach it this side of death.

An funny quote popped in my mind...

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

 

It's from Socrates, but just as relevant today as it was 2500 years ago.

It came to my mind because he thought the bad behaviour of the youth had reached its lowest point. Little did he know that 2500 years later, parents and teachers would be faced with the exact same issues he had.

 

You think you were lucky to experience the appice of human evolution in the 50s-60s, and think it's all downhill from there. Can you see the similarity? ????

 

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Is it interesting to see an opinion but it cannot be argued as it is a statement of faith.

It is saying I have faith that god exists and is perfection and therefore everything he does and creates is perfect no matter whether it's Hitler, a volcano or a pandemic.

You can debate what Yodsak or Thai Beach Lovers say but not this. You can't debate faith.

The way I see it, it's a simple logical deduction. 

 

And yes, I think Hitler, the eruption of a volcano or a pandemic are all part of this perfection. The attributes of "good" and "bad/evil" are human and are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. They simply happen, just like an ant colony is destroyed to make space for a children's hospital, which gets destroyed during a war, and this war was the trigger for great technological advancement, which created a terrible weapon killing millions of people, which in turn was the necessary step for global peace... 
So, which event was bad? Which one was good? Were the bad ones necessary for the good ones to arise? Could they have arisen without them? 

Could a global consciousness for the protection of the environment arise without first being threatened by the destruction of said environment? I doubt it.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

7 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The way I see it, it's a simple logical deduction. 

 

And yes, I think Hitler, the eruption of a volcano or a pandemic are all part of this perfection. The attributes of "good" and "bad/evil" are human and are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. They simply happen, just like an ant colony is destroyed to make space for a children's hospital, which gets destroyed during a war, and this war was the trigger for great technological advancement, which created a terrible weapon killing millions of people, which in turn was the necessary step for global peace... 
So, which event was bad? Which one was good? Were the bad ones necessary for the good ones to arise? Could they have arisen without them? 

Could a global consciousness for the protection of the environment arise without first being threatened by the destruction of said environment? I doubt it.

This post has been said before but here I go.

I appreciate that bad things, or bad things for humans, can and have lead to good things for humans or the world. To believe that such happenings are part of god's plan, that we cannot understand, can help people feel better about the world and its future. It can also help people move on and get on with the job of making the world a better place without being too down struck by the effect of the world events. 

But, rather than lead to a love of god and humanity,  it can lead to a nihilistic callous view of world events such that what ever happens, it is shocking but for a moment, but then deemed perfect -  what is meant to be, will be, and everything is just a means to an ends. I am not suggesting this is your feeling but that's where it leads in my opinion.

A child who died in a pandemic and died a long slow death is a cog in the wheel of perfect universal progress. It's hard to take and it doesn't make a lot of sense and is at odds with the notion of a free will. It is justifying the unjustifiable. Saying god knows best is a cop out in my opinion. 

 

[covidiot]

16 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

A child who died in a pandemic

if you believe in reincarnation, that's one possible way to justify this phenomenon, to some extent.

 

there are even scientists that have talked about reincarnation, although the science is over my head. 

 

the fact is that there are too many pieces of the puzzle missing, too many things we don't understand. yet. maybe one day we will? 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by covidiot

[Fat is a type of crazy]

I suppose one response could be, that the point is, who cares how I or others feel about there being so much pain required in the rolling out of god's plan. I am putting too much importance in the human experience and we are like ants compared to the bigger picture.

However a believer in the god's plan theory is in my opinion the one putting too much importance on the individual.

To say that an ant was killed for the bigger picture of a hospital, or World War 2 lead to rethinking of the world by humanity, is to give each death an importance in the fulfillment of god's plan. 

In my theory people aren't important in that sense - they are important because in the real world each of us wants to be treated fairly and to live with freedom, and politically and socially it might work best as a community to see that this happens. Suggesting that all that pain is in a sense progress towards god's plan is to justify and give credence to such events and to complicate how humans might do better in the for the future.  

Individuals, for example,  who cause pain and horror should be responsible, full stop, so we can live in reality and have a better future. This is more sensible in my opinion than the  belief that we are disposable but important cogs in a wheel of god's progress and that in a sense all events are god's doing and are perfect.  

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

A child who died in a pandemic and died a long slow death is a cog in the wheel of perfect universal progress. It's hard to take and it doesn't make a lot of sense and is at odds with the notion of a free will. It is justifying the unjustifiable. Saying god knows best is a cop out in my opinion. 

 

Please, let's not use the "But what about the children!?" argument, as it would weigh down everything with useless emotions and would quickly get out of hand, with one group accusing the other of being cold, cynical monsters, and the other group labeled as snowflakes or other such nonsense.

 

 

5 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Individuals, for example,  who cause pain and horror should be responsible, full stop, so we can live in reality and have a better future. This is more sensible in my opinion than the  belief that we are disposable but important cogs in a wheel of god's progress and that in a sense all events are god's doing and are perfect.  

I agree, but I fail to see why one way of thinking would prevent the other. I believe in the perfection of every instant, yet I also believe that we should not allow any behaviour that causes pain and suffering to others. 

In an ideal world, people would always know right from wrong and do the right thing. Society would progress very quickly in a straight line, choosing the path of least resistance. Our reality is not like that unfortunately. Society goes from one extreme to another like a pendulum, but at the same time progressing towards the same ideal point in the future. We are exploring what works and what doesn't and we will eventually overcome (transcend) the status quo, and emerge in a new consciousness. The same way we grew out of our teenager mindset, included and transcended it, and emerged with a completely new way of seeing the world....more mature, responsible, less self-centered, and ready for new challenges.

That's the way the world works too. We are going from a ME-ME-society (focused on the individual) to a WE-society (focused on the community), from childhood to adulthood. Not in a straight line, but by testing out different paths, until a path emerges that gives the most benefits for most people. 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Almost agree on everything,  except that it's difficult to say where's the peak of something. 

Nowadays we have amazing technology available at a cheap price to many, if not most people, then, why i have the impression that the mass gets so easily brainwashed?

Easy answer. There is something about the electronic media that makes people as addicted as surely as heroin. I'm the proof of it, as I'm pretty cynical about such nonsense as social media etc, but I'll waste hours on the internet/ tv etc even though I KNOW I'm wasting my time.

 

I give the late 50s and early 60s as the peak, as technology WAS making people's lives better, and JFK was giving us a vision of a better world ( we were reaching for the stars back then ), but the world wasn't so overpopulated that we had begun to destroy our environment beyond repair, as we are doing now. The Vietnam war destroyed the vision, and it's been replaced by greed, IMO.

It'll be a sad story when the last human dies simply because we populated ourselves into extinction, IMO.

 

However, none of that will, IMO, make any difference to God, as probably billions of intelligent species in the universe have come and gone already, and billions more will in the future. IMO humans are just another blip in the cosmos. IMO everything on the planet is part of the plan, from the smallest virus to humans to the largest whale, from fungus to the largest redwood, none more or less important than the rest.