Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I couldn't give your video a reaction as I can only give one.  So I have to reply to give it two reactions.
 

 

 

I'm starting to see more clearly where you're at with this.  Everything you write is pretty much verbatim of what the Swami talked about and what's talked about in this video.  The benefit of those videos is that the information is more structured than our conversations.  Our conversations are ad hoc in that we jump around from one specific idea to another.  That makes it much more difficult for me to get an overall picture of the idea construct of Advaita Vedanta, or any thought system that is more loosely or more tightly based upon it.

 

As I've said, there will be similarities and differences.  I give a thumbs up for the similarities.  But then there are other ideas expressed which, sorry to say, I find putrid.  I would consider those ideas to be conclusions which are reached from the experience of connecting with, say, your inner self which then become explanations, for example, for what our physical self is.  Those are what I call the distortions of the truth.  And in my most honest and humble opinion I consider some of those distortions to be quite massive and even detrimental.

 

Anyway, I need some time to sift through all of this information and organise my thoughts before I reply to your last posts and to this latest video.  I'll probably watch it a second time.  Maybe even a third.  I might want to watch some more of the Swami's videos.  Advaita Vedanta doesn't seem to be a very complex system of thought.  So far I see there are a number of basic concepts, tied together to make overall sense.  I say it's not very complex because there is a whole lot that's left out.  Hence why I bombard you with endless questions that I think become frustrating for you. 

 

Take your time and when you're ready, I'll be curious to hear what you consider massive and detrimental distortions. 

You're right though, on the surface AV is quite simple and boils down to 2 main concepts: A) Brahman is the Absolute Reality and B) Brahman can be experienced through self-inquiry and meditation.
It is also true that those wise Indian guys had 1000s of years to refine their explorations in consciousness to the smallest of details. You know how Innuits have something like 100 different names for snow? It's the same with the Indian definitions of all the nooks and crannies of consciousness. 

It is also worth remembering that what you hear from Swami Sarvapriyananda on YT is targeted at laypeople, not those who have studied Vedanta in great detail, and so the language and the concepts are presented in a way to be understood by those laypeople. 
I'm quite sure that whatever doubt or protest we can come up with, has already come up and been dealt with many times during the past few 1000s years. 

[save the frogs]

On 2/1/2024 at 7:56 PM, Red Phoenix said:

I recently came across this picture of Timothy LEARY.  What a beautiful and powerful human being he was (just look at his eyes, to feel and touch his soul).  And the message he spread is still resonating almost 30 years after his demise.

If you think Timothy Leary's eyes are soulful, wait until you see Tippaporn's eyes. He will post his picture soon. 

 

Leary does have some interesting quotes. 

• I declare that The Beatles are mutants. Prototypes of evolutionary agents sent by God, endowed with a mysterious power to create a new human species, a young race of laughing freemen.
• Each religion has got their own way of making you feel like a victim. The Christians say "you are a sinner", and you better just zip up your trousers and give the money to the pope and we'll give you a room up in the hotel in the sky.

 

 

[save the frogs]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

It is also worth remembering that what you hear from Swami Sarvapriyananda on YT is targeted at laypeople, not those who have studied Vedanta in great detail, and so the language and the concepts are presented in a way to be understood by those laypeople. 

 

Maybe you understand sth everyone else is too stupid to understand.

Or maybe you're tripping all over yourself lost in your own ego taking in deluded information that is so abstract as to be virtually meaningless and useless on any practical level.

Is that too deep for you?

I am getting the heck out of here before people start casting stones that will break my bones. 

 

Edited February 4 by save the frogs

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Is that too deep for you?

Not at all. 
Goodbye. Come back any time. 

[save the frogs]

Tippaporn's a Jethro Tull fan.

So we're gonna go easy on him. 

 

In the shuffling madness ...

 

 

[save the frogs]

bible scholar who says the Bible is not about God .... but about aliens ... he thinks they are true stories of our ancestors being governed by aliens. 

 

 

Edited February 4 by save the frogs

[Tippaporn]

9 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Maybe you understand sth everyone else is too stupid to understand.

Or maybe you're tripping all over yourself lost in your own ego taking in deluded information that is so abstract as to be virtually meaningless and useless on any practical level.

 

In essence here's what you're saying, Frogs:

 

If I can't understand it then it's meaningless and therefore practically useless.  Complexity = abstract.

 

You could as well say that physics is complex to the point of abstraction and so far beyond your understanding that it's meaningless and therefore practically useless.

 

You might also correctly say that your ego is tripping all over itself in resentment of complexity and therefore automatically rejects anything that is not meant for a simpleton.    Is that an accurate assessment? 

 

That assessment isn't given as a judgemental slight, Frogs.  It's meant as a question that you might want to consider and answer for yourself.  Honestly or not. 

[Tippaporn]

7 hours ago, save the frogs said:

bible scholar who says the Bible is not about God .... but about aliens ... he thinks they are true stories of our ancestors being governed by aliens. 

 

 

 

The world is flush with ideas about what reality is and how it functions.  I think the population is 8 billion plus.  That gives an indication of how many different ideas are out there.  How bizarre, or not, are your ideas about what reality is and how it functions?  As bizarre, perhaps, as the ideas expressed in the video.  Of course Paul Wallis doesn't consider his ideas bizarre.  And I would wager you don't consider your ideas bizarre either.  There's an old saying:  The insane always see themselves as sane.

[Tippaporn]

9 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Tippaporn's a Jethro Tull fan.

So we're gonna go easy on him.

 

Thanks, Frogs.  A Tull fan is all the evidence needed to know that I'm not all bad and that a connection does exist with other Tull fans. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:10 PM, Red Phoenix said:

Hi TBL, sorry to hear that your response to the Timothy Leary post vanished before you were able to post it. 

Note that I have also experienced that annoying phenomenon before (especially when writing longer responses).  But I found out that it's often just a matter of clicking again on the QUOTE button to the post you were responding to, to see the text where you have left off, and you can then either delete the response started or continue writing it.

Yes, clicking on the quote button works, sometimes. This time it didn't.

[thaibeachlovers]

59 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Thanks, Frogs.  A Tull fan is all the evidence needed to know that I'm not all bad and that a connection does exist with other Tull fans. 

I watched a Tull VDO once. He had a rather unusual leg activity when performing.

Music wise I'm not a Tull fan- does that put me beyond the Pale?

[thaibeachlovers]

I found a rather interesting quote about life on the internet.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, save the frogs said:

bible scholar who says the Bible is not about God .... but about aliens ... he thinks they are true stories of our ancestors being governed by aliens. 

 

 

I absolutely believe that we are the remnants from an alien race that lived on Earth so long ago that we have forgotten they existed. There is plenty of evidence pointing to a race that built things impossible for primitive humans to have built, mainly in Sth America, but also in Egypt.

I don't think that we are of that race though.

 

Makes no difference to believing in God though.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I declare that The Beatles are mutants. Prototypes of evolutionary agents sent by God, endowed with a mysterious power to create a new human species, a young race of laughing freemen.

He sure got that wrong then.

They may have been prototypes, but hardly laughing freemen- just as messed up in the head as the rest of us, and all those drugs didn't help.

[save the frogs]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He sure got that wrong then.

They may have been prototypes, but hardly laughing freemen- just as messed up in the head as the rest of us, and all those drugs didn't help.

true. good point. 

well, they had sth in common. Sgt pepper's was basically a theme album where the theme was to escape traditional british culture at the time and embrace LSD counter-culture.

and timothy leary was a big spokesperson for LSD.

and i'm not a big fan of drugs. 

so i hate half the stuff the beatles did ...

maybe they were forced to create certain music by their bosses.

because their music styles vary wildly. 

 

but a lot of their stuff is pure magic. 

 

 

 

 

[save the frogs]

 

without going out of your door

you can know all things on earth

without looking out of your window

you can know the ways of heaven

 

 

Edited February 4 by save the frogs

[save the frogs]

There's no time to lose, society left us
Love is the tool, raise the vibration
'Cause when you live in the love it's called a civilisation

I ain't gonna dance for a new religion
I ain't gonna dance for a new religion

 

[save the frogs]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I absolutely believe that we are the remnants from an alien race that lived on Earth so long ago that we have forgotten they existed. There is plenty of evidence pointing to a race that built things impossible for primitive humans to have built, mainly in Sth America, but also in Egypt.

I don't think that we are of that race though.

 

Makes no difference to believing in God though.

 

The point he is making is that Yahweh in the Bible is not referring to God ... etc but I ain't gonna debate it. It's another complex theory . 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

 

The world is flush with ideas about what reality is and how it functions.  I think the population is 8 billion plus.  That gives an indication of how many different ideas are out there.  How bizarre, or not, are your ideas about what reality is and how it functions?  As bizarre, perhaps, as the ideas expressed in the video.  Of course Paul Wallis doesn't consider his ideas bizarre.  And I would wager you don't consider your ideas bizarre either.  There's an old saying:  The insane always see themselves as sane.

 

You know what's insane?

The Bible is the ONLY book we have claiming to be from GOD.

And most people HATE the God of the Bible. 

So any alternative theory about what the Bible is actually about should be entertained.

Because it can't get much worse than the status quo where everyone hates God. 

 

Virtual insanity is what we're living in.

I think it's time to find a new religion.

 

 

[Tippaporn]

Whilst I am reviewing the ideas which make up Vedanta I wanted to give you something to think about in the meanwhile.

 

I'll once again quote the title of the essay Jane composed via automatic writing and which represented her initial experience with her mystic nature.  The Physical Universe As Idea Construction.  That simple statement is one of the keys to understanding the world we find ourselves in as it succinctly and accurately informs as to how our reality is composed.  Our reality is constructed using ideas and beliefs.  If you are able to understand the implication of that then much that is seemingly incomprehensible begins to become obvious.

 

Seth provides ideas.  Vedanta provides ideas.  Some ideas are the same and some are different.  Yet ideas is all that either offer.  Then given those ideas it becomes a matter of discerning which ideas are an accurate reflection of what reality is and how it functions.  What is clear is that two ideas which oppose each other cannot both be an accurate reflection of reality.  Therefore it is not a matter of better or best but one of accuracy.  One is accurate and the other is not.

 

One of the ideas of Vedanta, as you have expressed, is that there is intellectual understanding and there is direct understanding.  Direct understanding trumps intellectual understanding.  And so via comparison it is concluded that intellectual understanding is inferior.  Not only is it inferior but intellectual understanding cannot lead to any true understanding.  True understanding can only be validly gotten via direct understanding.  Those, my friend, are ideas.  And they are ideas I most strongly reject as being an accurate representation of how reality works.  They are, therefore, what I consider a distortion of the truth.  My evidence?  That would be my own experience, for one.

 

Consider this from the 29th session given by Seth on February 26, 1964 (bolded text is mine):

 

" ... Needless to say, I wanted you to know that there is much more than even this, complexities that are truly astounding, intelligences that operate in what I suppose you would call a gestalt fashion, building blocks of vitalities of truly unbelievable maturity, awareness, and comprehension. These are the near ultimate [as I understand such things].

 

"This material should not make you feel unimportant or insignificant. The framework is so woven that each particle [of consciousness] is dependent upon every other. The strength of one adds to the strength of all. The weakness of one weakens the whole. The energy of one recreates the whole. The striving of one increases the potentiality of everything that is, and this places great responsibility upon every consciousness.

 

"I would even advise a double reading of the above sentence, for it is a keystone, and a vital one. Rising to challenges is a basis for existence in every aspect of existence. It is the developer of all abilities, and at the risk of being trite, it is the responsibility of even the most minute particle of consciousness to use its own abilities, and all of its abilities, to the utmost. Upon the degree to which this is done rests the power and coherence of everything that is."

 

Well, if you can believe that information then apparently the intellect is not solely an attribute of human consciousness.  And therefore the intellect can be used to gain true knowledge and understanding.  Which means that direct experience is not the only avenue to attaining real knowledge and understanding.

 

The rest of the material hints at the fact that every reality which exists is a creation which has within it inherent challenges which demand the use of our abilities as consciousnesses, and those specific abilities which would be involved in any given type of reality.

 

When I ask you "why is Sunmaster here in this world" my answer is that this reality is one of your creations and demands that you use all of the abilities of the type of consciousness that is yours presently.  And using those abilities is what leads to the fulfillment of the individual personality (such as your art for you).  And through your personality then that adds to the fulfillment of your greater self and All That Is.  Adds to, which suggests that there is no single fulfillment.

 

"All consciousness has within it the deep abiding impetus to use its abilities fully, to expand its capacities, to venture joyfully beyond the seeming barriers of its own experience. The very consciousnesses within the smallest molecules cry out against any ideas of limitation. They yearn toward new forms and experiences. Even atoms, then, constantly seek to join in new organizations of structure and meaning. They do this "instinctively.""

NoPR

 

"All of this may seem to have little to do with your daily personal experience, and yet it is intimately connected, for personally and en masse you can indeed create "the best" of all possible worlds.

"The performance of a great athlete gives evidence of abilities inherent in the human form that are little used. Great artists by their very works demonstrate other attributes latent in the race as a whole. They
still represent one-line delineations, however. Within the experience of your race as you know it lie all the patterns that would point to some fully developed human being, in which all inherent tendencies were given full play and came to fruition.

 

"You would have an individual who displayed within himself [or herself] all of those great abilities known to the race, fulfilled according to his own unique temper — the artist, mathematician, athlete, the inventor — all the extraordinary qualities of creaturedom; the emotional realities would be used to their capacity, and any of the racial qualities or characteristics of the species would be given their complete freedom.

"Wisdom and foolishness would be seen as aspects, one of the other. Religion and science would each be unhampered by dogma in such an individual. In the same way, following your own "trace" experiences and characteristics, you can discover those "probable" abilities that are yours, and uncover to some degree the nature of probable actions open to you
for physical materialization."

NoPR

 

That's why Sunmaster is in the world.   

 

I better stop expounding now before I'm accused of being long winded and/or abstract.    Hopefully it conveys some basic ideas and understanding.

[save the frogs]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I better stop expounding now before I'm accused of being long winded and/or abstract.

 

it's too late for that.

 

[save the frogs]

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Whilst I am reviewing the ideas which make up Vedanta I wanted to give you something to think about in the meanwhile.

 

I'll once again quote the title of the essay Jane composed via automatic writing and which represented her initial experience with her mystic nature.  The Physical Universe As Idea Construction.  That simple statement is one of the keys to understanding the world we find ourselves in as it succinctly and accurately informs as to how our reality is composed.  Our reality is constructed using ideas and beliefs.  If you are able to understand the implication of that then much that is seemingly incomprehensible begins to become obvious.

 

Seth provides ideas.  Vedanta provides ideas.  Some ideas are the same and some are different.  Yet ideas is all that either offer.  Then given those ideas it becomes a matter of discerning which ideas are an accurate reflection of what reality is and how it functions.  What is clear is that two ideas which oppose each other cannot both be an accurate reflection of reality.  Therefore it is not a matter of better or best but one of accuracy.  One is accurate and the other is not.

 

One of the ideas of Vedanta, as you have expressed, is that there is intellectual understanding and there is direct understanding.  Direct understanding trumps intellectual understanding.  And so via comparison it is concluded that intellectual understanding is inferior.  Not only is it inferior but intellectual understanding cannot lead to any true understanding.  True understanding can only be validly gotten via direct understanding.  Those, my friend, are ideas.  And they are ideas I most strongly reject as being an accurate representation of how reality works.  They are, therefore, what I consider a distortion of the truth.  My evidence?  That would be my own experience, for one.

 

Consider this from the 29th session given by Seth on February 26, 1964 (bolded text is mine):

 

" ... Needless to say, I wanted you to know that there is much more than even this, complexities that are truly astounding, intelligences that operate in what I suppose you would call a gestalt fashion, building blocks of vitalities of truly unbelievable maturity, awareness, and comprehension. These are the near ultimate [as I understand such things].

 

"This material should not make you feel unimportant or insignificant. The framework is so woven that each particle [of consciousness] is dependent upon every other. The strength of one adds to the strength of all. The weakness of one weakens the whole. The energy of one recreates the whole. The striving of one increases the potentiality of everything that is, and this places great responsibility upon every consciousness.

 

"I would even advise a double reading of the above sentence, for it is a keystone, and a vital one. Rising to challenges is a basis for existence in every aspect of existence. It is the developer of all abilities, and at the risk of being trite, it is the responsibility of even the most minute particle of consciousness to use its own abilities, and all of its abilities, to the utmost. Upon the degree to which this is done rests the power and coherence of everything that is."

 

Well, if you can believe that information then apparently the intellect is not solely an attribute of human consciousness.  And therefore the intellect can be used to gain true knowledge and understanding.  Which means that direct experience is not the only avenue to attaining real knowledge and understanding.

 

The rest of the material hints at the fact that every reality which exists is a creation which has within it inherent challenges which demand the use of our abilities as consciousnesses, and those specific abilities which would be involved in any given type of reality.

 

When I ask you "why is Sunmaster here in this world" my answer is that this reality is one of your creations and demands that you use all of the abilities of the type of consciousness that is yours presently.  And using those abilities is what leads to the fulfillment of the individual personality (such as your art for you).  And through your personality then that adds to the fulfillment of your greater self and All That Is.  Adds to, which suggests that there is no single fulfillment.

 

"All consciousness has within it the deep abiding impetus to use its abilities fully, to expand its capacities, to venture joyfully beyond the seeming barriers of its own experience. The very consciousnesses within the smallest molecules cry out against any ideas of limitation. They yearn toward new forms and experiences. Even atoms, then, constantly seek to join in new organizations of structure and meaning. They do this "instinctively.""

NoPR

 

"All of this may seem to have little to do with your daily personal experience, and yet it is intimately connected, for personally and en masse you can indeed create "the best" of all possible worlds.

"The performance of a great athlete gives evidence of abilities inherent in the human form that are little used. Great artists by their very works demonstrate other attributes latent in the race as a whole. They
still represent one-line delineations, however. Within the experience of your race as you know it lie all the patterns that would point to some fully developed human being, in which all inherent tendencies were given full play and came to fruition.

 

"You would have an individual who displayed within himself [or herself] all of those great abilities known to the race, fulfilled according to his own unique temper — the artist, mathematician, athlete, the inventor — all the extraordinary qualities of creaturedom; the emotional realities would be used to their capacity, and any of the racial qualities or characteristics of the species would be given their complete freedom.

"Wisdom and foolishness would be seen as aspects, one of the other. Religion and science would each be unhampered by dogma in such an individual. In the same way, following your own "trace" experiences and characteristics, you can discover those "probable" abilities that are yours, and uncover to some degree the nature of probable actions open to you
for physical materialization."

NoPR

 

That's why Sunmaster is in the world.   

 

I better stop expounding now before I'm accused of being long winded and/or abstract.    Hopefully it conveys some basic ideas and understanding.

 

I gave you another chance by reading another one of your long-winded Seth posts.

 

It all sounds like nonsense to me.

 

And that's your last chance to dance trance. With me, anyway.

 

And now I am truly quitting this thread for once and for all because I don't need to read this nonsense. 

 

 

 

[Tippaporn]

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I gave you another chance by reading another one of your long-winded Seth posts.

 

It all sounds like nonsense to me.

 

And that's your last chance to dance trance. With me, anyway.

 

And now I am truly quitting this thread for once and for all because I don't need to read this nonsense.

 

See you in about 5 minutes.  I can almost set my watch to your reappearances. 

 

Don't ever take up the occupation of a magician, Frogs.  Your disappearing acts never work. 

 

". . . because I don't need to read this nonsense."

 

No problem.  There's endless other nonsense out there for your entertainment. 

 

Edited February 4 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

On 2/3/2024 at 12:57 PM, Sunmaster said:

Seriously though, what I'm looking for now can not be found in any book, neither the Baghawad Gita, nor Seth not anywhere else.

 

That sounds to me like we're done talking.  For what you're looking for isn't gonna come from me, neither. 

 

It's true to say that the answers are all within us.  So go within?  But the physical world, being a three dimensional extension of us and therefore not existing as "not us," and having it's source therefore be from within, means that without is within as well.  Gee, I feel like I'm making a confusing mess of things.  Thankfully for Frogs he left and will not have to suffer reading that nonsense.   

[save the frogs]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

without is within

yeah, without is within. lmao.

 

and now, ladies and germs, i shall make Tippaporn dematerialize right before your very eyes. 

 

 

 

 

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

yeah, without is within. lmao.

 

and now, ladies and germs, i shall make Tippaporn dematerialize right before your very eyes. 

 

 

 

 

 

We hardly missed ya, Frogs. 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

That's why Sunmaster is in the world. 

How can you prove that Sunmaster even exists?

 

[Tippaporn]

@save the frogs

 

I remember that you had once suggested that I write a book.  I can't say what triggered the remembrance but as I remembered all of a sudden a book title came to me out of nowhere.  Nowhere being within, too.  But since I'm within God then the within was not within me but within the me that is within God.  Does that make sense?  Anyway, I can't honestly attribute it to my own creativity so I'll write the dedication to He who was the true inspiration.  It would be a self-help book of incredible value, found in the occult section of all book stores.

 

How To Speak Greek In English

 

It's brilliant if I must say so myself.  And it would be the easiest book ever written, too.  All I have to do is copy and paste from the Seth material.  Of course, I would also pepper it throughout with my own examples of speaking Greek in English by quoting some of my own thoughts.  Just so I can say it's an original work.  Why I could even include some of my conversations with @Sunmaster and @Red Phoenix.  But then they may want some credit and demand their share of royalties.  So maybe not such a good idea.

 

What I need now, though, is some encouragement and confidence that the book would sell.  Tell me you'll buy a copy, Frogs, and I'll begin work immediately. 

 

Edited February 5 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

How can you prove that Sunmaster even exists?

 

 

There are proofs for enigmas, Frogs.  I'm certain of it.  And if no proof then I can always rely on pure faith.   

[Tippaporn]

36 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

yeah, without is within. lmao.

 

What's so difficult about solving the paradox of without being within?  It's as easy as solving the paradoxical nature of dumb coexisting with smart within the same entity simultaneously.

 

Honestly, Frogs, you have a knack for transforming the simple into the abstract.