Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, again, many wise men having this debate since aeons, could not show any evidence of God or its non-existence.

Promise you, if i get some evidence, positive or not, i'll send you a postcard ????

Simplest explanation is that God is unknowable for humans, given we are barely out of the cave in evolutionary terms and know nothing much.

If a being can create life the universe and everything, he/ she / it has to be greater than anything our feeble brains can comprehend.

The greatest fallacy IMO, is that men even think they can "know" God.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, sirineou said:

 Sure but we both have the same available information.

It befalls the one making the claim to provide evidence from the available pool of information. I could not reason the "Or Not" because I could not prove with absolute certainty a negative , only prove that based on the available set of evidence  the same set of evidence that supports your claim, that there is no reason to believe that it exists. 

 

Some people are applying information known to us, humans that have barely existed in cosmic terms, to trying to determine if a being that can create untold billions of galaxies, stars, planets and imbue lumps of meat with life that can think for itself exists or not.

 

Think about it- humans- existed for about 50,000 years ( and only had practical science since the industrial revolution; this universe- existed about 14 BILLION years, and who knows how many previous universes?

We know nothing, Jon Snow!

 

If I want to know if "God" exists, I only need to look at a glorious sunset or a starry sky to know the answer to that.

Edited October 12, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[mauGR1]

51 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The greatest fallacy IMO, is that men even think they can "know" God.

I don't see that as a "fallacy", but rather as a distant goal.

For sure, if one wants to know what is considered unknowable, has to walk unbeaten paths, or think "outside of the box", so to speak.

For some reason, i think that "reason" will never be enough to know God.

 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some people are applying information known to us, humans that have barely existed in cosmic terms, to trying to determine if a being that can create untold billions of galaxies, stars, planets and imbue lumps of meat with life that can think for itself exists or not.

 

Think about it- humans- existed for about 50,000 years ( and only had practical science since the industrial revolution; this universe- existed about 14 BILLION years, and who knows how many previous universes?

We know nothing, Jon Snow!

 

If I want to know if "God" exists, I only need to look at a glorious sunset or a starry sky to know the answer to that.

I understand that we might use inadequate information to try to understand your God, What kind of information did you apply to arrive to the conclusion that your God created all these?  Did you look at the sunset and determine that your God created this and not an other god. ?

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Simplest explanation is that God is unknowable for humans, given we are barely out of the cave in evolutionary terms and know nothing much.

If a being can create life the universe and everything, he/ she / it has to be greater than anything our feeble brains can comprehend.

The greatest fallacy IMO, is that men even think they can "know" God.

Then why bother? You have made this point ad nauseum for months...that "our feeble brains" are incapable of ever comprehending that which you keep telling us is out there, but don't have a clue about. If, as you claim near daily, this...as far as what IS known, nonexistent thing does not want to be known and is beyond human comprehension regardless. What is the point???

 

Please just once explain why something that, for all practical purposes, isn't there...chooses to remain hidden, doesn't interact with or have any concern about us...and is beyond "our feeble brains" forever, matters. Why do you care? Why should we care? In other words...what is the benefit? The consequence? What's the impact? 

 

To my feeble brain...same as if it wasn't there. Nothing.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Skeptic7

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Then why bother?

 

5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

What is the point???

Those are relevant questions.

I can answer just for myself, personally i get a bit frustrated from my limitations as a human being, being trapped in a physical, mortal body it's just boring. It feels like a very repetitive job.

Trying to understand higher forms of intelligence, is akin to explore a new town in search for a place to start a new life.

I am sure, that "faith" can answer a few questions, as well as "meditation", but the path one wants to take is just a personal choice.

 

[CMNightRider]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

This is not an actual photograph.  It is just an artists depiction of Adam and Eve.  Think about it........Take as much time as you need ????

[canuckamuck]

5 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

This is not an actual photograph.  It is just an artists depiction of Adam and Eve.  Think about it........Take as much time as you need ????

Certainly if God could create people he could also choose their features. The first two were handmade, the next ones came from the factory.

Edited October 13, 2019 by canuckamuck

[canuckamuck]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Simplest explanation is that God is unknowable for humans, given we are barely out of the cave in evolutionary terms and know nothing much.

If a being can create life the universe and everything, he/ she / it has to be greater than anything our feeble brains can comprehend.

The greatest fallacy IMO, is that men even think they can "know" God.

Do you mean know as in fully comprehend, or know as in be acquainted with, or even just know of?

Edited October 13, 2019 by canuckamuck

[Elad]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Think about it- humans- existed for about 50,000 years ( and only had practical science since the industrial revolution; this universe- existed about 14 BILLION years, and who knows how many previous universes?

We know nothing, Jon Snow!

Yes, but we know that in the early universe there was mostly hydrogen and helium so no life could exist. The first two generation of stars were needed to forge heavier elements. Then those heavier elements needed to form new stars and planets. Then life had to evolve on those planets to a stage of some intelligence, which took around 3.5 billion years on Earth. 

We live in a time where life can evolve and for all we know, we could be the most intelligent life in the whole universe and all other life forms on countless other planets are behind us in evolutionary terms. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Elad

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, sirineou said:

I understand that we might use inadequate information to try to understand your God, What kind of information did you apply to arrive to the conclusion that your God created all these?  Did you look at the sunset and determine that your God created this and not an other god. ?

There is only one, but he/ she/ it comes in many forms.

We humans are not much at all on a cosmic scale- just specks of insignificant dust in a vast cosmic stage. Our vanity is that we think we can know anything about the creator, or worse, that we know the creator does not exist. We know, on a cosmic scale, as much as a flea knows about nuclear physics.

 

Anyone that looks at a glorious sunset and feels nothing in their soul has lost something precious- hope for something better after death.

To not believe in a creator is to believe that we are nothing but a cosmic mistake, and count for nothing at all. To believe that all that we are, our lives, our hopes, our dreams is nothing at all is very sad. Why bother doing anything at all if it amounts to zero?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Do you mean know as in fully comprehend, or know as in be acquainted with, or even just know of?

"God" can only be known in one's soul IMO, and if one denies "God", does one even have a soul?

Humans comprehend "God"? Not in a million billion years of evolution, IMO.

Till we die and return to whatever is on the other side, all we have is faith and feeling, but nothing that can be proven or even described except as a personal feeling.

 

I still think that many naysayers believe that "God" has to be something that humans can see, which is a nonsense. Why would a being that can create life the universe and everything be confined to something we can understand?

The Bible says man was created in the image of God, but perhaps God appeared as a man to early humans, as they would not have understood a cloud of electrically charged particles that talked was God and might have run away.

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Our vanity is that we think we can know anything about the creator, or worse, that we know the creator does not exist.

Your vanity is that you think you know anything about the creator and that he exists, we are atheists we know nothing of the short. 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Elad said:

Yes, but we know that in the early universe there was mostly hydrogen and helium so no life could exist. The first two generation of stars were needed to forge heavier elements. Then those heavier elements needed to form new stars and planets. Then life had to evolve on those planets to a stage of some intelligence, which took around 3.5 billion years on Earth. 

We live in a time where life can evolve and for all we know, we could be the most intelligent life in the whole universe and all other life forms on countless other planets are behind us in evolutionary terms. 

Have you ever seen a starry sky away from any artificial light? Many never have.

However, if you have, and seen all the billions of stars in just our galaxy, and then think of billions of other galaxies, going on for infinity, and how many planets there must be in all that infinity, can you really, sincerely believe that we are the only intelligent life in all the universe?

Simplest explanation is that everything started at the same time at the big bang, so all the life throughout the universe must be at roughly the same level of intelligence as we are. We can't space travel to other solar systems, so why would they be able to travel to ours?

OR, they can and are too intelligent to make themselves known to a bloodthirsty species that likes to kill everything, including it's own planet.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Your vanity is that you think you know anything about the creator and that he exists, we are atheists we know nothing of the short. 

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I just posted that we, and that includes me, know NOTHING about "God". How is that so hard to understand??????????????????????

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

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I just posted that we, and that includes me, know NOTHING about "God". How is that so hard to understand??????????????????????

55555555555555555555555555

You sure seem to have a lot of opinions for someone who claims to know "NOTHING"  about.

How is that so hard to understand??????????????????????

Edited October 13, 2019 by sirineou

[thaibeachlovers]

 

 

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

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You sure seem to have a lot of opinions for someone who claims to know "NOTHING"  about.

How is that so hard to understand??????????????????????

You are obviously trolling. On ignore.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

You are obviously trolling. On ignore.

ignorance is bliss 

[luckyluke]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are obviously trolling. On ignore.

Of course not only applicable for this topic,

 

but the easiest way to only read posts which are in harmony with ones own opinion, is to put on ignore every poster who may not agree with you. 

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is only one, but he/ she/ it comes in many forms.

We humans are not much at all on a cosmic scale- just specks of insignificant dust in a vast cosmic stage. Our vanity is that we think we can know anything about the creator, or worse, that we know the creator does not exist. We know, on a cosmic scale, as much as a flea knows about nuclear physics.

 

Anyone that looks at a glorious sunset and feels nothing in their soul has lost something precious- hope for something better after death.

To not believe in a creator is to believe that we are nothing but a cosmic mistake, and count for nothing at all. To believe that all that we are, our lives, our hopes, our dreams is nothing at all is very sad. Why bother doing anything at all if it amounts to zero?

All it takes, is to believe in mother earth, and warship her, respect her, and treat her as a mother, not abuse her and use her as a garbage can as we do today. That would give hell of alot more meaning than warshipping a book

[canuckamuck]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Have you ever seen a starry sky away from any artificial light? Many never have.

However, if you have, and seen all the billions of stars in just our galaxy, and then think of billions of other galaxies, going on for infinity, and how many planets there must be in all that infinity, can you really, sincerely believe that we are the only intelligent life in all the universe?

Simplest explanation is that everything started at the same time at the big bang, so all the life throughout the universe must be at roughly the same level of intelligence as we are. We can't space travel to other solar systems, so why would they be able to travel to ours?

OR, they can and are too intelligent to make themselves known to a bloodthirsty species that likes to kill everything, including it's own planet.

“The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge” Psalm 19

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by canuckamuck

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I still think that many naysayers believe that "God" has to be something that humans can see, which is a nonsense.

This is a very relevant point which should be addressed. We can only 'see' things that reflect a very narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum, which we call light. The people who wrote the ancient scriptures had no concept of the 'electromagnetic spectrum' or Photons. Many of the ancient Greek scholars, including Plato, even believed that we see because our eyes project, or shine, a light upon what we are looking at. This was known as the Emission Theory.

 

The issue is not whether we can 'see' God, but whether we can detect by any means at our disposal, including the latest scientific instruments, the presence of any entity that fits the description of a God.
The answer appears to be 'not yet'. There has been no verifiable detection of the presence of a Creator God. However, the human imagination is wonderful. Consider all the Fiction Novels and Movies that have been created in the past, as well as the Fake News, and the incorrect scientific assertions in the past, which were later proved to be wrong.

 

We can imagine anything our minds are capable of. We can speculate endlessly, and that can be fun, and also sometimes useful when it leads to the discovery and understanding of new aspects of our surroundings.

 

God exists, but only in the imagination of certain (but numerous) individuals. If it makes you feel good and helps you to be more empathetic and helpful towards your neighbours, and the environment, and other forms of life that are necessary for biodiversity and our survival as a species, then that's fine.

 

I personally don't need a belief in a God in order to be empathetic. I never throw waste on the ground. When I take a walk in a park, and see an empty bottle lying on the ground, probably left by some ill-educated teenager, I usually take the trouble to pick it up and deposit it in a near-by rubbish bin.

 

Religion can have a useful purpose, but mostly for the uneducated and/or emotionally insecure. Unfortunately, the negative effects of religion seem to counteract the positive effects. I'm referring here to the incessant conflict between different Muslim sects and the Jews, which has been going on for centuries, and which used to involve the Christian sects in the past. This is absolutely crazy!

 

Why would a being that can create life the universe and everything be confined to something we can understand?

 

There are extremely numerous degrees and levels of understanding. It's not possible to even think about something without some basic, fundamental understanding of the issue or concept which grabs our attention, even if that understanding consists only of a dictionary definition of the word, such as 'fairy'. 

 

The evolution of the Homo Sapiens species has involved increasing creativity, beginning with stone flint tools, spears and boomerangs, then progressing to thatched huts, wheels, stone buildings, roads, canals, motor cars, planes, and so on.

 

Our creative powers are impressive, so it's not surprising that some people in the past came up with the idea that 'some entity' created us, and the whole world. Of course, in those days it seems that those ancient leaders or prophets who created God, had no knowledge of the extent of our planet, or the extent of the universe. They were so ignorant they even thought a local flooding event was a world-wide flood, as described in the Noah's Ark story. ????
 

[soalbundy]

On 10/12/2019 at 9:41 AM, mauGR1 said:

Reality exists by definition, although one could say that realities perceived by humans can be , and often are, illusory.

If you talk about absolute, undeniable, single reality, perhaps "existence" is the only one who comes to mind.

If you want to try to deny "existence", you can try, but it seems quite a hard job to me.

Certainly there is a sense of 'being' although what it is that is 'being' i have no idea, 'me' is just a gathering of concepts and beliefs, phenomenally 'me' is experiencing a state of what is at a given moment although 'what is' is just an interpretation of the brain through the senses. The cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman (see youtube) who has worked on AI and also studied neuroscience has written equations describing consciousness and has come to the conclusion that everything we perceive is just eye candy for the senses, only what is necessary for survival is registered but not as the truth. As an example he gives the mail box icon designating your emails on your computer screen, you see the icon but until you double click you cant see the emails, you can't double click life so all we see are the icons, the truth behind these icons wouldn't help our survival just as as knowing about the intricacies within your computer, the CPU, the voltages the transistors, would only be a hindrance to you getting your email, it isn't necessary, nature works in a minimalistic way. 

[Skeptic7]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

You are obviously trolling. On ignore.

YOU are the troll...even tho u don't even realize it. You ignore everyone who calls out your nonsense. Soon you'll be all alone in the TV Universe. ????

[mauGR1]

38 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Certainly there is a sense of 'being' although what it is that is 'being' i have no idea, 'me' is just a gathering of concepts and beliefs, phenomenally 'me' is experiencing a state of what is at a given moment although 'what is' is just an interpretation of the brain through the senses. The cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman (see youtube) who has worked on AI and also studied neuroscience has written equations describing consciousness and has come to the conclusion that everything we perceive is just eye candy for the senses, only what is necessary for survival is registered but not as the truth. As an example he gives the mail box icon designating your emails on your computer screen, you see the icon but until you double click you cant see the emails, you can't double click life so all we see are the icons, the truth behind these icons wouldn't help our survival just as as knowing about the intricacies within your computer, the CPU, the voltages the transistors, would only be a hindrance to you getting your email, it isn't necessary, nature works in a minimalistic way. 

Before reading your post, i knew that science has a hard task in defining "consciousness".

After reading your post, i am of the same opinion, plus a slight headache ????

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

The evolution of the Homo Sapiens species has involved increasing creativity, beginning with stone flint tools, spears and boomerangs, then progressing to thatched huts, wheels, stone buildings, roads, canals, motor cars, planes, and so on.

True, but unfortunately much of humanity has not evolved past the stage of barbarian, being involved in thuggery of all sorts, extortion of fellow humans, brutality and all sorts of horrible activities. Also, most of humanity is a bit dim, being happy to destroy the environment that allows them to survive.

Frankly, IMO, if not for the endeavours of a quite small number of innovative people over the 50,000 years of human occupation, we'd still be living in caves and stealing women from other tribes to mate with.

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Also, most of humanity is a bit dim, being happy to destroy the environment that allows them to survive.

 

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Frankly, IMO, if not for the endeavours of a quite small number of innovative people over the 50,000 years of human occupation,

Pardon me, but isn't that paradoxical ?

I mean, thanks to inventions and innovations, we have been able to overcome high rates of mortality, make our lives more comfortable and interesting, thus multiplying exponentially, thus creating troubles for the environment, just by overpopulation.

Also, i don't think that "most of humanity" are "happy" to destroy the environment, it's just that a clean environment is at odds with the modern way of life.

Nothing to worry anyway, should the planet explode tomorrow, the rest of the universe will carry on just as normal.

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

“The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge” Psalm 19

 

A bird in the hand beats two in the bush.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

A bird in the hand beats two in the bush.

Yes, and if you have nothing to say, better say nothing.

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Frankly, IMO, if not for the endeavours of a quite small number of innovative people over the 50,000 years of human occupation, we'd still be living in caves and stealing women from other tribes to mate with.

When did that end?