Opinion: Mandatory health insurance? Maybe not time to panic just yet.

[ianezy0]

Not sure if you can provide links to a YouTube video but I did one showing my experience with Pacific Cross.

I covered all their policies on the one spreadsheet which I would be happy to send to anyone.

YouTube link is: 

 

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Article 25 of the United Nations' 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services."

 

The United State Constitution; British Common Law and every Constitution I have red indicates a person has a right to life and therefore basic life saving medical care is essential to life.

 

The UK; EU; Australia; Japan and every major industrialised country  except the USA consider  medical care a human right and that is why they have National Healthcare systems.

 

For profit medicine; Insurance Companies; Big Pharma exist for only one reason- to make money off a person's suffering. Even the USA is starting to fight back against  the concept of for profit medicine.  Thailand would do well to  go to  non profit medical care for all while it is still relatively inexpensive to do so- otherwise it's citizens and us will be trapped in a system in which the poor die and the rich live.

You are guilty (in the nicest possible way) of "presentism"-that world has only existed since 1946.There is no guarantee that it will last forever.

 

Human rights are neither immutable or universal-and are subject to historical development or change.

 

However,it would be jolly nice if they did-as outlined in the Charter.

 

A Western victory by the way-carried by force of arms.

[natway09]

There was talk at one stage of introducing mandatory health cover for all with other than a tourist visa (& (or) not already covered) run by the government. The figure of 45,000Bht a year was mentioned

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Human rights are neither immutable or universal-and are subject to historical development or change.

You may be correct on this point- at one time slavery was legal; certain  ethnic backgrounds were legally discriminated against; people of certain faiths wee put to death etc. The World  since it's inception has been awash in idiocy.

 

However, there are certain things that can never change even when confronted by a an actor or action that attempts to change them.

 

IMO- slavery will always be wrong- so will murder, rape etc.  Human kind rises up throughout history to throw off  the denial of human rights.

IMO- Healthcare is , was and always will be a human right because to deny it when it is available is akin to potential murder.

As an American, I am appalled at my countries past attitudes toward this issue in which the poor can actually die when excluded from this right.- or  if given the care are billed at rates so high that they sell their houses to stop legal action or in some case go bankrupt.

 

The above does not happen in the EU; UK or other industralised Nations that fully understand that medial care is a right. I would hope Thailand does not follow the US model of greed but allows everyone access to reasonable medical care.

 

 

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Reckon you copied a post I made a couple of months ago ???? , cos exactly the same opinion as me . For me a foreigner who has been married to a Thai partner for 5 years or more , built the family home and supports the family , should be privileged to Government hospital treatment at the same rates as a Thai . Especially important if mid 60s and up . Medical insurance at my age ( nearly 72 ) is available but at an unrealistic price for me . OK if I was 10k pounds a month but I am far from that . For the guys who do not live here UK travel insurance can be had at a reasonable fee including previous illnesses , up to 5 months can be had .  I am guessing that there are more uninsured foreigners here than insured .

I honestly think it may have been just the wording of your post, so no great offense taken, but I can't say I much appreciated the suggestion that I might be guilty of plagarism. People do sometimes express similar opinions on this forum. If you think I unfairly copied your post, feel free to provide a link to it, as I certainly am not aware of having deliberately borrowed wording from you or any other poster. Everything else in your post I agree with.

[jonwilly]

Pacific Cross, B1.2 Million cover, no previous conditions accepted B45K/ year, 70-74.

 

john

[pierrenoel]

Pacific Cross, B1.2 Million cover, no previous conditions accepted B45K/ year, 70-74. Impossible i have the same PREMIER PLAN and i am 61 and i pay 49,000 baht OR MAYBE YOU HAVE A BIG DEDUCTIBLE AND NO OUTPATIENT.

[Letseng]

On 4/16/2019 at 7:20 PM, marcusarelus said:

I pay 40,000 baht and I'm almost 80.  My policy only covers hospital stays and not the whole thing.  AIA.

I guess you joined before 60 with a local insurer. Lucky you. Try to join now.

I can't get accident insurance because I'm 71 I was told. Bangkok insurance turned it down because of an accident I had early this year. I was hit by my neighbors car. He paid the bills.

Got inpatient only medical insurance from overseas. Cost 2300 $US/year. Started in 2014 at just over 1000$ group policy. I never needed it, others in the group use it heavily going by the increase.

[Letseng]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The above does not happen in the EU; UK or other industralised Nations that fully understand that medial care is a right. 

Misinformation on your part. No, it is not a right in the EU. You pay for it heavily in some countries even as a pensioner it is a percentage of your pension.

Last year I was told I was no longer entitled as I left 18 years ago (not from UK). EU rule says otherwise. Now I can take them to court. So much for my rights in an EU country as an EU citizen. 

 

[jonwilly]

My agent is checking and I will get back, but B1.2 million, with no previous conditions is what he quotes.

Surprised me.

 

john

[connda]

2 hours ago, pierrenoel said:

there are health insurance thai compagny who provide 400,000 inpatient and 40,000 outpatient already untill 90 years old but small coverage and hight price.EX: 75 years old 120,000 baht or 61 years old 90,000

Eventually you are actually funding your own insurance.  Most people could simply save the 120K or 250k per year (I'm sure it gets ridiculous as you get past 80), put in in an account and use that account for medical.  Anyway, 400k insurance isn't squat, and the 40k outpatient is completely unneeded.  On top of that, the number of exceptions for 'pre-existing conditions' would make the insurance virtually worthless for most people over 65.  But it sure would be a money-maker for the Thai insurance lobby, which is why I think it will probably happen.  I already have a policy that covers multiples of that crappy 400k/40k policy and I cover my own out-patient.  I don't want out-patient as you'll simply pay for it via premiums as opposed to out-of-pocket.  But if this is forced down my throat, then I'll be leaving a Thai family here.  I already have a Plan B that included moving to another SE Asian country where I will have a path to residency and be able to purchase government-offered insurance. At some point you cut your losses. Getting raped by a government mandated, insurance company supplied, crappy, over-priced insurance policy is the straw that breaks the buffalo's back. Sure, it ain't Thailand, but for those who feel that they must live here because they like that malls and infrastructure, etc - personally I was in Thailand back in the mid-1980s when Thailand was still a developing country sans the malls and shopping and infrastructure - and I liked it just fine, probably better than I do 'modern' Thailand.  So bring it.  Either way I'll survive.

[connda]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Actually..medical care is not a human right....and "essential to life" is not a human right either.

 

In fact it could be argued that there are no such thing as "human rights" only "civil rights"

 

However,it is certainly essential to good governance-as Thomas Hobbes once observed that otherwise "life was poore, nasty,brutal and shorte.."

 

As it still is in many countries.

Human Rights are anything that the majority of nations define as a 'human right.'  So Libertarians and anarcho-capitalists will disagree, but if commonly accepted world-wide, it is what it is. 

[Ulic]

I have a slightly different opinion. Every age demographic is desirable when you can charge high premiums and the coverage is minimal. I believe it is Thai insurance companies along with hospitals that are pushing this scheme. Big, big money to be made by them. Lower tourism numbers and revenue will affect the rest of the tourist industry. We will see what comes to pass. 

[Odysseus123]

27 minutes ago, connda said:

Human Rights are anything that the majority of nations define as a 'human right.'  So Libertarians and anarcho-capitalists will disagree, but if commonly accepted world-wide, it is what it is. 

 I am neither a libertarian or an anarcho-capitalist-I am merely pointing out that "human Rights" are distinctly mutable-as they were in the Balkans,Rwanda and plenty of other places..

 

Your post should actually read.."majority of nations-if they can enforce them."

 

As you have just attempted to categorize me-I shall do the same to you and bid you adieu in your rice patch in Nakhon Nowhere-the undisputed epicentre of human rights on the planet.

[connda]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

As you have just attempted to categorize me

Nope.  It was a generalized statement, my opinion, about the term 'human rights' as it applies to healthcare.  You somehow took it personally.  Honestly.  It's not about you.  Jing jing.

[scubascuba3]

I'm going through the motions of getting quotes now but if I was forced to get it I might choose to switch to tourist visas and spend 6 months in other countries

[superal]

18 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I honestly think it may have been just the wording of your post, so no great offense taken, but I can't say I much appreciated the suggestion that I might be guilty of plagarism. People do sometimes express similar opinions on this forum. If you think I unfairly copied your post, feel free to provide a link to it, as I certainly am not aware of having deliberately borrowed wording from you or any other poster. Everything else in your post I agree with.

I did not express myself well as what I meant was that we have the same thoughts and opinions on the matter , the fact being that I could also have written your post , relax and no criticism intended ????

[Gecko123]

12 minutes ago, superal said:

I did not express myself well as what I meant was that we have the same thoughts and opinions on the matter , the fact being that I could also have written your post , relax and no criticism intended ????

That's what I suspected. No offense taken. Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

[john ianson]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:22 PM, madmen said:

Im 56 a condo owner and pay $1200 a year for insurance . Most will let you pay monthly so what makes you think it will crash the RE sector?

The people MOST likley to have insurance are condo owners who arrived with between 5 to 10 million baht in cash. The people less likley to have it are the pensioners in chiang Mai so I think you got that back the front

Most expats cannot retire at 56 ! I think mostly only people who inherit money or win a lottery can retire this early ! Try getting an insurance quote by turning your age around and adding 1 ! That is 66 ! Or adding 10 years to 76 and see if you  can even get insurance ! 

[superal]

19 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Medical care is a human right- not a privilege but something essential to life which is also a human right.

 

At present, for profit hospitals; Big Pharma and Insurance are locked together to make the highest profit they can off another person's suffering.  This cannot and should not be allowed to continue- not only in Thailand but everywhere.

 

The solution in Thailand is really simple- everyone who enters the country via the purchase of any type of ticket can have xx amount added to that ticket to cover potential medical issues.

 

Anyone one living permanently in Thailand on  yearly extensions can purchase into the Thai Social Security system at xx amount per month and be covered.  This will increase the amount in the Social Security Fund and provide universal coverage.

 

Every Industrialised country in the World has a single payer system except the USA   America is currently  attempting to move to a single payer system in which there is no need  for private insurance and drug costs and hospital costs  are controlled. This will be fought by greedy hospitals and Big Pharma who want to profit from others misery.

 

Thailand in the past has followed the America model but it id a failing system.  Already , in Thailand , it is well know private hospitals are ripping off the public with extortion prices.

 

American healthcare is the costliest in the World but not always the best.  In fact, in some Us states it is impossible to even find out the actual cost of a procedure due to the insidious relationships between hospitals and insurance.  Thailand would do well to not allow this type of system to even exist.

 

The only answer is  what is called medicare for all-similar to what the EU and UK have- medical care is non profit- Thailand has a Social Security system- which could easily allow long stay foreigners to buy in at a reasonable rate.  As of 2019- the US rate for Part B Medicate (Social Security) is $135 per month which includes  in patient and out patient.  

 

Certainly Thailand could make the premium less than the American rate and provide universal coverage. They could request private hospitals volunteer to honor the  Government rate or even develop an added policy that can be used at any hospital.They key to all healthcare is that it is a right, not something to be used to make a profit by  hospitals; medical professionals or Pharmaceutical companies.

 

 

Please tell me , in the USA , what happens in the case of a road accident where there are badly injured people ?  Are they means tested before emergency treatment ?

The UK has the " National Health Service ( NHS )  system which is free to UK residents ( working people have deductions from their wages called national insurance contributions which vary according to the size of the pay packet to fund the scheme )  , however if of working age their out patient medical prescriptions have to be paid for , free for retirees and people on certain government benefits . The system has  been / is under huge pressure to maintain its service to the public with under funding from the government taking the brunt of the blame .  

Now where your opinion of non profit medical care is challenged is when the waiting times to see a NHS consultant and then treatment can be counted in months . Maybe not a life threatening illness but bad enough to find yourself unable to work .  By way of going for private treatment either paying cash or using your health insurance an appointment with the same consultant can be fast tracked to a couple of days . I guess that will never change across the globe .  Now if I want to see a doctor in the UK I have to make an appointment ( that is if the receptionist answers the phone ) and when I was last there a routine appointment was a 3 week wait . The NHS is a much revered UK treasure of caring nurses & doctors and not too long ago there were suggestions of sub contracting some services / treatments . This is happening in a small way at the moment for minor ailments .  

In summary there is a need for private medicare and maybe it should be regulated cost wise . However the priority should be for health care for all at a basic level and affordable .

Foot note , there is no free dentistry for adults in the UK ( bar under 18s and pregnant women and maybe those on some government benefits ) and that can be expensive , almost the same as private costs . The NHS dental practises that offer treatment under government pricing are almost impossible to get a consultation with , they are not interested or compelled to take NHS patients .

Not everything in the UK health care system is rosy but I guess we have to be thankful for what we have . 

 

[5633572526]

On 4/16/2019 at 7:29 PM, marcusarelus said:

AIA 6 years ago

I got similar price with Aetna ( then Bupa) 3 years ago

[jonwilly]

Have a look at Pacific Cross, very reasonable from what I was shown, can start at a policy for B1.5 million and then way up according to what suits you.

 

john

[CaptainJack]

There were three reasons I returned home to the USA, at the top if the list was medical insurance.   I researched this until I was exhausted.   Pacific Cross kept coming up as a great option.  For the record,  at 67 years old  I was not eligible for all except 3 of a dozen different companies.   Pacific Cross was very clear on the quote they gave me.  I am only eligible for an "international plan", and because I have had laser treatment for my retinas and take medication for high cholesterol,  those are both preexisting conditions.   Any vision or coronary artery or heart disease is not covered.

 

The cheapest plan with Pacific Cross was around 9000 USD a year. The better plan was around 12,000 USA a year.

 

I grew tired of everyone telling me how I could get an affordable policy, and I applied. The best I could find that would actually pay and cover me was Cigna International and Geoblue with no exclusion on preexisting conditions.

 

The Geoblue expatriate policy for my age starts at 1200 USA dollars a month and goes up, as do they all with age.

 

For Pacific Cross, I've included a couple of links and information 

 

I state again.  I actually applied and got quotes or was just ignored.   If someone else is willing to provide real quote information,  please do.

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/health-insurance/standard-plans.html

Standard_International_Plan_2019_Soft (1).pdf Comprehensive_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf Major_Medical_Plan_2019_Soft (1).pdf

[CaptainJack]

Apparently I'm not allowed to share specific plan information.  Here are the links you can read for yourselves. 

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Standard_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Comprehensive_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Major_Medical_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Premier_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

[robertson468]

Simple:  Get the Ministry of Health to run an Insurance scheme to cover ex-pats for 400,000 baht in-patient cover and 40,000 baht out-patient cover, regardless of age at a cost of say about 7,000 baht per month.  Nice little earner for the Ministry!

[JTXR]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:32 AM, rwill said:

65 and under you can get Aetna Opal plan for very cheap rates coverage is not as good though.

 

Have you got a link to the Aetna Opal plan info?  Thanks.